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2010-2011 Rangers Prospects Thread (Juniors, NCAA, International, Other)

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Old
10-07-2010, 03:51 PM
  #176
msv957
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
dylan mcilrath so far this season.

2010/11 Moose Jaw Warriors 5 0 0 0 -4 16

Yikes!! not a good start to the season.. but he does have a lot of penalty minutes for the intimidation factor..

Seriously.. it is so early in the season.. I am willing to bet he will be fine this year..

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10-07-2010, 04:02 PM
  #177
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Disappointed to see the -4 even though I don't think +/- is really a legitimate stat at all, but I'm going to base my feelings on D-mac from people saying how he's playing, not from stats, simply because I picture that he's not supposed to be a point machine.

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10-07-2010, 04:05 PM
  #178
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Yikes!! not a good start to the season.. but he does have a lot of penalty minutes for the intimidation factor..

Seriously.. it is so early in the season.. I am willing to bet he will be fine this year..
How is it not a good start to the season? I couldn't care less about his +/-, and the lack of points is not concerning considering he is more of a defensive defenseman and it's only 5 games in.

There is nothing more annoying than people who decide to evaluate the play of individuals based on stat lines. McIlrath could have played the best defense in the history of the OHL over a 5 game span, and yet you'd have no idea from those stats.

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10-07-2010, 04:12 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by msv957 View Post
Yikes!! not a good start to the season.. but he does have a lot of penalty minutes for the intimidation factor..

Seriously.. it is so early in the season.. I am willing to bet he will be fine this year..

I hate you.

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Old
10-07-2010, 04:23 PM
  #180
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How is it not a good start to the season? I couldn't care less about his +/-, and the lack of points is not concerning considering he is more of a defensive defenseman and it's only 5 games in.

There is nothing more annoying than people who decide to evaluate the play of individuals based on stat lines. McIlrath could have played the best defense in the history of the OHL over a 5 game span, and yet you'd have no idea from those stats.
This 1000x.

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Old
10-07-2010, 04:30 PM
  #181
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You're absolutely right. I had never heard of him until the draft, when you brought him up. Nice call.

He's a pretty impressive player. He's got the build and physical abilities that I absolutely love. If I remember correctly, I was hoping they'd pick one of those Shattuck kids with that pick.
5th rounder, not bad. In fact, two of the best 5th rounders(so far) from '09 have been Horak and Stajcer.

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This is all that matters. Following McIlrath by stats (although they would be nice) is going to torture some of you, because that's not his game. We can just hope we get reports from posters saying he was solid defensively.
10th overall and we just hope he's good defensively. Something's not right

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10-07-2010, 04:33 PM
  #182
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My primary concern is McIlrath's defensive play.... Going to need game reports from spectators to gauge that.... Offensive production would just be an added bonus....

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10-07-2010, 04:59 PM
  #183
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My primary concern is McIlrath's defensive play.... Going to need game reports from spectators to gauge that.... Offensive production would just be an added bonus....
I could care less about points, fights and plus/minus. I want to know the kid has that same game he played those 3 short months last season that got him to #10 overall.

Even if his team is crap, if he's as good as we hope is is, folks will walkaway saying 'wow, that kid played half the game and was outstanding'. If I don't hear that in Juniors its gonna be pretty disappointing.

Right now he's physically dominating those kids, but what happens when they figure out a way around him? Will he adapt? CAN he adapt? The really good ones figure it out.

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10-07-2010, 05:22 PM
  #184
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Moose Jaw is 2-4. They've scored 13 goals and have 21 against. McIrath is -4, but -3 of that came in 1 game.

Once the team gets going (hopefully) his +/- will improve.

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10-07-2010, 06:37 PM
  #185
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Werek had been having a very mediocre 1st period until he scored with about 2 minutes remaining in the period. Nothing special, he simply crashed the net and fought his way into an open spot where the puck slipped to him during a scramble. Very impressed with how he uses his size so far.

I don't really get the Adam Graves comparisons. Yes, he is very strong in front of the net like Graves, but Werek is clearly a lot better at handling the puck and is a better skater. He gained the zone pretty nicely at one point.

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10-07-2010, 07:06 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
Werek had been having a very mediocre 1st period until he scored with about 2 minutes remaining in the period. Nothing special, he simply crashed the net and fought his way into an open spot where the puck slipped to him during a scramble. Very impressed with how he uses his size so far.
.
I don't really get the Adam Graves comparisons. Yes, he is very strong in front of the net like Graves, but Werek is clearly a lot better at handling the puck and is a better skater. He gained the zone pretty nicely at one point.
A generally unknown nice fact about Werek is that he beat Hall in the all star puckhandling showdown. Big guy, good hands. Nice combo.

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10-07-2010, 08:36 PM
  #187
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Final line for Werek tonight in a 5-4 loss to Brampton:

1 goal, -1, 2 PIM

From what I was able to gather from this games regarding Werek:

Positives:
-Absolutely phenomenal at getting open or positioning himself in scoring areas. Strong in front of the net.
-Very strong on the puck. Carried it into the zone well. I don't think I saw him get muscled off the puck once the whole game. Very good at the cycle.
-Above average skating
-Faceoffs

Negatives-
-Wristshot. The reports I've heard say he has a pretty good wrist shot. I didn't see that tonight. As I said earlier, he did a fantastic job getting himself into good shooting areas, but 3 or 4 times a teammate rewarded him with a pass only for him to not even hit the net. He specifically had a chance from point blank with nobody around, only it took him way to long to actually fire off the shot. A defenseman was able to get a stick in the way and Werek ultimately put it over the net.
- The first goal wasn't primarily his fault, however he is the center and he left the slot open to in an attempt to pressure the guy with the puck who already had a defenseman there. Other than that he was solid, but unspectacular, defensively.


I really like what I saw. Werek wasn't great but he played solid and was probably the best Kingston forward on the ice. It's painfully obvious that he is essentially by himself on his line. Kingston's best players aside from Werek are either defensemen (Gudbranson) or centers (Moon, Quine) and so Werek is basically without help offensively.

Outside the Rangers, I was extremely unimpressed with Doherty. He clearly has certain skills but as a total package I'm not seeing it. Kingston was up 4-2 at the end of the 2nd period, and all three goals Brampton scored in the third were directly Doharty's fault.

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Old
10-08-2010, 05:52 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
How is it not a good start to the season? I couldn't care less about his +/-, and the lack of points is not concerning considering he is more of a defensive defenseman and it's only 5 games in.

There is nothing more annoying than people who decide to evaluate the play of individuals based on stat lines. McIlrath could have played the best defense in the history of the OHL over a 5 game span, and yet you'd have no idea from those stats.
I hear you man... It is way too early in the season to evaluate the play of Mcilrath.. I believe he has the potential to be a force if he keeps on developing his play in the OHL. I did mention that I believe he will be fine this year and for some reason you took it the wrong way and etc.. My bad if you got sensitive from my post. Not sure why you got all bent out of shape as fans can have differences of opinions. Most fans look at the stats to gauge how a player is doing.. No? I am aware stats can be misleading at times but stats can also be a sign on how the player is doing also. Just looking at the stats for the first 5 games it does not look like Mcilrath has a good start to the season, but it is a long ways to go I do believe he will be fine.

Anyway, you are right, Mcilrath is considered more of a defensive defenseman so stats will probably not be a big thing with Mcilrath. I do like that he is already putting up the penalty minutes as the intimidating presence is no doubt there already. He can be an absolute beast for the Rangers in a few years.

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Old
10-08-2010, 07:17 AM
  #189
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no one is doubting big macs abilities. he has talent.

however, one must judge him relative to players with similar abilities that may have been available much lower than the 10th pick in the first round.

see to me, it isnt acceptable that he just become a very good shutdown defender since that kind of player isnt the type of player you take in last years draft at #10.

like i said before, time will tell.

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Old
10-08-2010, 10:34 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by msv957 View Post
I hear you man... It is way too early in the season to evaluate the play of Mcilrath.. I believe he has the potential to be a force if he keeps on developing his play in the OHL. I did mention that I believe he will be fine this year and for some reason you took it the wrong way and etc.. My bad if you got sensitive from my post. Not sure why you got all bent out of shape as fans can have differences of opinions. Most fans look at the stats to gauge how a player is doing.. No? I am aware stats can be misleading at times but stats can also be a sign on how the player is doing also. Just looking at the stats for the first 5 games it does not look like Mcilrath has a good start to the season, but it is a long ways to go I do believe he will be fine.

Anyway, you are right, Mcilrath is considered more of a defensive defenseman so stats will probably not be a big thing with Mcilrath. I do like that he is already putting up the penalty minutes as the intimidating presence is no doubt there already. He can be an absolute beast for the Rangers in a few years.
No, you clearly do not get the point. Stats are misleading in general. Stats are especially misleading in evaluating development, and are ESPECIALLY misleading for defensemen. If McIlrath was turning the puck over left and right but had a few secondary assists and an empty net goal you would assume he's off to a great start... due to his statline.

Stats tell us nothing about how effective he's been physically, how his positioning has been, how his skating has been, how his outlet passes have been, etc. McIlrath could be making multiple end to end rushes every game only to hit the post, or could be making numerous successful passes into the slot only for teammates to miss. Statistics are largely influenced by the teammates around you, and I personally don't give a **** about anyone else on Moose Jaw.

Chris Doyle and Ryan Bourque put up almost identical statistics as 18 year olds in the QMJHL. So why is it that one guy looked as if he might not even get a professional contract while the other is highly valued by the same organization? Based on statistics, they are nearly identical players.

You're right. Based on statistics, it doesn't "look" like McIlrath has started the season off well. Smart people are the ones who are able to decipher the difference between what "looks" to be reality and what actually is. There's a reason NHL GM's hire numerous scouts to go to dozens of games per year instead of just printing out stat sheets the night before the draft and going off that.

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10-08-2010, 11:13 AM
  #191
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There is no problem in evaluating MacIlrath's progress (or lack there of) from this board during the season IMO.

You simply pay no attention to anyone who does not actually watch him play.

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10-08-2010, 11:18 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
No, you clearly do not get the point. Stats are misleading in general. Stats are especially misleading in evaluating development, and are ESPECIALLY misleading for defensemen. If McIlrath was turning the puck over left and right but had a few secondary assists and an empty net goal you would assume he's off to a great start... due to his statline.

Stats tell us nothing about how effective he's been physically, how his positioning has been, how his skating has been, how his outlet passes have been, etc. McIlrath could be making multiple end to end rushes every game only to hit the post, or could be making numerous successful passes into the slot only for teammates to miss. Statistics are largely influenced by the teammates around you, and I personally don't give a **** about anyone else on Moose Jaw.

Chris Doyle and Ryan Bourque put up almost identical statistics as 18 year olds in the QMJHL. So why is it that one guy looked as if he might not even get a professional contract while the other is highly valued by the same organization? Based on statistics, they are nearly identical players.

You're right. Based on statistics, it doesn't "look" like McIlrath has started the season off well. Smart people are the ones who are able to decipher the difference between what "looks" to be reality and what actually is. There's a reason NHL GM's hire numerous scouts to go to dozens of games per year instead of just printing out stat sheets the night before the draft and going off that.
Really good point and cool way of looking at how a prospect can develop and etc. I believe Gordie Clark and crew believe they have a hidden gem in Mcilrath so there just needs to be patience with him developing his game.

Any chance on Mcilrath making Team Canada for the WJC? This would be huge for his development..

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10-08-2010, 08:38 PM
  #193
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What separates Thomas from Skinner? Thomas with a hattrick so far tonight, that's 8 goals in 4 games. I know Skinner has a ton of lower body strength, but from what I have seen/read, Thomas is much fast/flashier.

Loved this pick in June and still love it.

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Old
10-08-2010, 08:40 PM
  #194
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What separates Thomas from Skinner? Thomas with a hattrick so far tonight, that's 8 goals in 4 games. I know Skinner has a ton of lower body strength, but from what I have seen/read, Thomas is much fast/flashier.

Loved this pick in June and still love it.
Wow, 8 goals in 4 games!

Skinner probably has a higher upside.

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10-08-2010, 08:55 PM
  #195
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Wow, 8 goals in 4 games!

Skinner probably has a higher upside.
Ya probably, but they have very similar size and skillsets, so the upside can't be enough to differentiate them over 30 picks. I bet if Thomas played on Kitchener last season and Skinner in Oshawa, they would be very close in the rankings. Skinners claim to fame (besides his shot) is how hard he is to knock off the puck. He isn't a fast skater though, where Thomas is much quicker and elusive.

Obviously I think Skinner is a better player now and probably in the future, but we should all be very pumped for Thomas.

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10-08-2010, 08:57 PM
  #196
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Ya probably, but they have very similar size and skillsets, so the upside can't be enough to differentiate them over 30 picks. I bet if Thomas played on Kitchener last season and Skinner in Oshawa, they would be very close in the rankings. Skinners claim to fame (besides his shot) is how hard he is to knock off the puck. He isn't a fast skater though, where Thomas is much quicker and elusive.

Obviously I think Skinner is a better player now and probably in the future, but we should all be very pumped for Thomas.
If Thomas rips off 50+ goals in the OHL this season I will count myself among the excited. He still has quite a barrier to overcome in the area of size, though.

Yogan was ranked higher than him in the final report for a reason.

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10-08-2010, 09:06 PM
  #197
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Will playing with jenner help him out? What's the scouting report on that guy?

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10-08-2010, 09:09 PM
  #198
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If Thomas rips off 50+ goals in the OHL this season I will count myself among the excited. He still has quite a barrier to overcome in the area of size, though.

Yogan was ranked higher than him in the final report for a reason.
If Thomas doesn't get hurt 50 goals should be very reachable, only 9 more then he had last season.

Also Werek had 1 G 1 A tonight against Thomas, giving him 8 points in 4 games.

Stajcer had another good game. Excellent start for the OHl kids.

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10-08-2010, 09:10 PM
  #199
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Score ended 8-7 Kingston in a shootout. Thomas ended with 3 goals, missed in SO. Werek had 1g and 1a, scored in SO.

Hagelin had an empty netter tonight in a 4-1 Michigan win. Not sure if he factored in on the other goals, only caught the last couple minutes of the post game audio and can't find the box score yet.

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10-08-2010, 09:19 PM
  #200
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Max Campbell scored in Western Michigan's 5-3 loss to Canisius.

Hagelin was 1g 1a for the night.


Scott Stajcer made 33 saves on 35 shots in Owen Sound's 4-2 win over Sarnia/


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