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NHL pulls Fraser, Watson from Game 6

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Old
06-04-2004, 09:12 PM
  #26
quat
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Madness. I certainly feel for any team on the bad end of a call, but I've yet to see a perfect game called. Fact is, the less calls there are the more it favours the Flames, and given how much is let go now, pretty much any call is going to look weird. But this is Sutter dictating to the NHL brass how he wants the game called... and that is pretty bloody impressive if you ask me. Moron fans are like sheep, and Sutter (and Iginla to a degree), was lighting fires all over the place after game four.

I don't think either tandem will make the difference to who wins this thing. The Flames had countless chances to score in game four and just didn't capatalize. If Tampa plays like they did in game five, this is a done deal.

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06-04-2004, 09:35 PM
  #27
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Bill Clinton said it best on the simpsons - "If things don't go your way, just keep complaining until your dreams come true"

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06-04-2004, 10:00 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoidberg
I call bull. Nothing's been reported like that over here or in any news outlet. I've never heard of anything even close to that story, they were just afraid of dealing with the backlash from fans (the Fraser sucks chant, the pelting with garbage - both rather juvenile maneuvres, but FAR from death threats).
DEATH THREATS! Kerry Fraser's not worried about death threats. Pelted garbage could mess up his hair!

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06-04-2004, 10:25 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Crosbyfan
DEATH THREATS! Kerry Fraser's not worried about death threats. Pelted garbage could mess up his hair!
You must be kidding! NOTHING could dent Fraser's Helmet Hair!

Kerry's hair is probably more protective than the flimsy helmets the players wear.

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06-04-2004, 10:53 PM
  #30
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Kerry Fraser was at the game last night if anyone cares, he was sitting a few rows up from me where I was sitting during warm ups. Of course his hair was PERFECT as usual. I think the reffing situation was made too big of a deal in the media. Would anyone have noticed the move if the press had made such a big deal out of it after game 4? Granted, I dont like Fraser either and like the move, but full focus should be made on the game not some of the attention paid to whos reffing it.

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06-04-2004, 11:22 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
This decision has nothing to do with the quality of officiating in Game 4. It has everything to do with negative media attention and the personal safety of Fraser and Watson.

Personally, I think the Flames should have been fined for the actions of the fans who pelted them with debris and beer after Game 4.

The only reason Calgary fans think the officiating was bad in Game 4 is because the only goal of the game was scored on the two-man advantage that Calgary got themselves into.

If Tampa Bay wins Game 6, I think it is likely that Fraser and Watson will work Game 7. I cannot see the NHL having officials work three consecutive games in the Stanley Cup Finals.
Now that is a VERY sad commentary on Flames fans.
The league should have the guts to stand behind the officials scheduled. I think now you could argue the conspiracy must be to get a Canadian team the Cup, instead of vice versa

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06-04-2004, 11:57 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by tnrocketman
Now that is a VERY sad commentary on Flames fans.
The league should have the guts to stand behind the officials scheduled. I think now you could argue the conspiracy must be to get a Canadian team the Cup, instead of vice versa
How is it sad commentary against Flames fans?

There were a bunch of idiots in the crowd for Game 4 who threw beer and other debris at Fraser and Watson after the game. I believe any team should be fined by the league if their fans act up like that...be it against officials or the opposing team.

If Tampa Bay did not score on that two-man advantage, the complaining about Game 4 officiating by Flames fans would have been down to the usual minimum that we see for every hockey game throughout the season.

And no, you cannot argue in favour of any conspiracy. The sheer thought of an NHL-led conspiracy in favour of either team is ludicrous.


And for the record, the media outlets who reported that Games 1-6 were scheduled in advance of the series were mistaken. Games 1-4 are scheduled...Games 5-6, if necessary, are tentatively scheduled, allowing for possible changes...Game 7, if necessary, is scheduled immediately after Game 6.


Last edited by BCCHL inactive: 06-05-2004 at 12:00 AM.
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Old
06-05-2004, 12:32 AM
  #33
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the reffing in this league is one of its major problems. not consistent. now the friggin league decides to do something on the eve of game 6. i love the nhl but this is a real sad sad joke. i am looking forward to no nhl next year. i pray they figure it out what kind of product they want on the ice every nite. caving in to media pressure and fans/coaches, christ what is this spain...

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06-05-2004, 12:36 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stungun
the reffing in this league is one of its major problems. not consistent. now the friggin league decides to do something on the eve of game 6.
The NHL DID NOT make this change because they judged the officiating to be poor in Game 4.

Hell, technically it isn't even a change since every game after Game 4 is scheduled game-by-game. Games 5-6 are only scheduled tentatively. Unfortunately, the media decided to claim that Games 1-6 are officially scheduled before the series without actually knowing for sure.

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06-05-2004, 01:39 AM
  #35
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More accurately, the NHL did not claim to make the move because it judged the officiating to be poor in game four. You are only making an assumption on your own biasses.

That said, the NHL probably thought Fraser did a great job in game four, and it probably thought that letting Corey Sarich run Gelinas into the boards from behind on Thursday was the right call too.

Like Stungun said, the inconsistancy of the officiating is one of the NHL's single largest problems. Four checks square from behind this series - which is four too many - three by Tampa, all uncalled. One by Calgary, a major penalty. The only difference between the four is that Lecavalier's helmet popped off.

The league seriously needs to correct the individual rulebooks that each referee writes and uses.

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06-05-2004, 02:06 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakeeye

Like Stungun said, the inconsistancy of the officiating is one of the NHL's single largest problems. Four checks square from behind this series - which is four too many - three by Tampa, all uncalled. One by Calgary, a major penalty. The only difference between the four is that Lecavalier's helmet popped off.

The league seriously needs to correct the individual rulebooks that each referee writes and uses.
Do you think that Flames have come out worse than Tampa or any other teams in these playoffs, or are you just using these examples to show the officiating needs improvement?

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06-05-2004, 02:36 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stungun
the reffing in this league is one of its major problems. not consistent. now the friggin league decides to do something on the eve of game 6. i love the nhl but this is a real sad sad joke. i am looking forward to no nhl next year. i pray they figure it out what kind of product they want on the ice every nite. caving in to media pressure and fans/coaches, christ what is this spain...
This cave will give the players association all the hope it needs to stop a salary cap.

See you in about 2 years.

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Old
06-05-2004, 02:41 AM
  #38
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Fraser is a horrible ref.

See Montreal vs New Jersey last year & Montreal vs Carolina 2 years ago. I'm sure another habs fan could describe the two events in greater detail but in both cases Fraser showed his inability to make sane & equal calls.

Whatever the reason for pulling him & Watson from game 6, I'm happy. At least we'll se a good hockey game.

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06-05-2004, 03:35 AM
  #39
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I'm not really sure which ref is truly better but given the Flames style of play, I would think they would want someone in there who is less likely to call anything. I mean clutching, grabbing and obstruction are as big of part of Calgary's game as is skating! A blind ref favors them much more than it does Tampa Bay.

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06-05-2004, 03:41 AM
  #40
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Just wondering what all the flames fans here thought were bad calls in game 4... or all viewers for that matter.. cause i for one thought it was quite well called. There weren't even many calls in the game either... besides the first the game was basically 5 on 5.

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06-05-2004, 05:43 AM
  #41
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Tampa does just as much clutching and grabbing. Flames players couldn't enter the Tampa zone without being clutched and grabbed in game five. There were even a number of clear cases of obstruction going both ways that went uncalled, except for one on Lowry which wasn't nearly as obvious as many of the others that weren't called.

Regardless, the officiating was CONSISTENT in game five -- THAT'S the point.

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Old
06-05-2004, 09:36 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakeeye
The league seriously needs to correct the individual rulebooks that each referee writes and uses.
But then Van wont be able to use his "game management" excuse everytime the refs get something wrong or start ignoring clear penalties.

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06-05-2004, 11:39 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtVandelei
Precisely. Besides, as the best ref in the NHL, Mcreary should be refereeing every single finals game.

Calgary 6-0 when Mcreary is Ref,,,Wonder Why you as Flame Fan would Want anyone else

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06-05-2004, 12:27 PM
  #44
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It seems to me that Bettman actually is supporting the conspiracy theory by his knee-jerk reaction. There is no way that any "major" sport should get itself in such a predicament. Hulk Hogan and the WWF come to mind.

If Fraser was one of the top referees 2 weeks ago and he is getting pulled from this plum assignment there is definitely an appearance of him being disciplined. Andy Van H. must of looked at the low quality game that Fraser had in game 4 and didn't have confidence that Fraser wouldn't make the next game personal. Like an offensive lineman in football it is the job of the referees NOT to get noticed. If you can't recall who was the ref then they did their jobs. Fraser must have done a good job in his previous 4 Flames games this playoffs as the general fan base don't remember him determining the outcome of those games one way or the other. Now he is public enemy #1 in Calgary.

The poorly called game is generating an extra $3-4 million in revenue for the Flames by extending the series to an extra home game for the Flames and giving Calgary a chance to win the Stanley Cup at home. The extra cash will come in handy in keeping the core of this team together.

If Fraser/Watson were so corrupt/egomaniacal that they can't be trusted in game 6 they should be fined/suspended, if not and they just had a bad game they should be calling game 6.

The Flames are 4-1 with Fraser as ref in these playoffs. Sutter said he would be disappointed if Fraser was pulled.

Unless the players totally cave in it looks like we will be missing a good portion of next year with Bettman’s “leadership”. At least there is very little chance that Bettman will be back after the dust settles. The league could do a lot worse with a hockey man rather than a lawyer as Commissioner, say any Sutter

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06-05-2004, 12:44 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quat
Do you think that Flames have come out worse than Tampa or any other teams in these playoffs, or are you just using these examples to show the officiating needs improvement?
That the NHL officiating needs improvement.

A check from behind is one of the most dangerous offenses in the game. As far as Flames games go this post season, I've seen at least seven such offenses committed. Only one - Niemenen - was called. And based on Watson's reaction, that one was only called because Lecavalier turtled. The hit itself wasnt worthy of a penalty to either Fraser (10 feet away) or Watson (other side of the rink)

I think every Flames fan realizes Niemenen made a dumb play, but based on the NHL's calling of the rules to date, it becomes easy to defend him because the NHL has effectively made checks from behind legal. Seven incidents, one penalty. Who got the short end of the stick here?

That there have been seven such incidents in 24 games shows how big a problem this infraction, spefically, is becomming - because the NHL has thrown away it's rulebook, or allows referees to write their own rulebooks.

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06-05-2004, 12:50 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broda
Just wondering what all the flames fans here thought were bad calls in game 4... or all viewers for that matter.. cause i for one thought it was quite well called. There weren't even many calls in the game either... besides the first the game was basically 5 on 5.
Not so much the calls, but the non calls. Iginla was run into the boards from behind by Sydor at the beginning of the play where Calgary went down five on three. Pratt also retaliated when Clark crosschecked him. Taking Commodore and Clark was fine. Pratt should have gone also. Or, the officials should have called Sydor's attempt to injure (fraser was looking right at it) and the rest of the play would have been null. Four infractions, two by each team, one team gets called twice, the other doesnt. That is the crux of Flames fan's anger.

As for the Niemenen hit, the prescedent set by the numerous ignored checks from behind in this series, and in this playoff, suggests that checking from behind is legal to NHL officials, therefore Niemenen should not have been penalized at all. Especially since, as I mentioned, Iginla was run from behind earlier in the game.

Only difference between the two hits is that Lecavalier didnt have his chinstrap done up properly.

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06-05-2004, 12:55 PM
  #47
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I think that it was a move that had to be done. Fraser did not have a good Game 4 (the overall game was not officiated well) and the crowd chanted 'Fraser sucks' quite often. That is a volatie environment for officiating. The crowd could sway Fraser to either call against Calgary or for them.

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06-05-2004, 12:57 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire
You should know better than that!. It would be quite unfair to have one of Bertuzzi's relatives ref the game.
No, that would be a Gorilla. I think the Rhino is related to Derian Hatcher.

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06-05-2004, 02:01 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricardodw
Unless the players totally cave in it looks like we will be missing a good portion of next year with Bettman’s “leadership”. At least there is very little chance that Bettman will be back after the dust settles. The league could do a lot worse with a hockey man rather than a lawyer as Commissioner, say any Sutter
I agree Bettman is a joke, and I can honesty say that any Sutter would make a much better commisioner.

I'm not attempting sacasm here, I hate Daryl Sutter, he's an SOB, and I hate his team.

However, Sutter has a great deal of resolve and if he wanted to make a change in how the game was played or marketed I have no doubt he would get it done. He has imposed his will on his team, the playoffs and the league, which is far cry from the impotent leadership of Gary Bettman.

Gary Bettman has all the resolve of Jimmy Carter and the Cowardly Lion from the Wizard of Oz. He is a waste of good oxygen.

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06-05-2004, 02:20 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by rwilson99
I agree Bettman is a joke, and I can honesty say that any Sutter would make a much better commisioner.
If it gets Brian Sutter out of chicago, Im all for it

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