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Russian intrigue

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Old
06-06-2004, 10:46 AM
  #1
DarkForce
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Russian intrigue

This is from today's Sun-Sentinel:

Russian intrigue

According to sources, before Dudley was fired by the Panthers, he was talking to Washington about possibly acquiring the No. 1 pick in this month's draft for the right to draft Russian phenom Alexander Ovechkin, whom Dudley has said "is the best player I've ever scouted."

Keenan said he has not yet talked with Capitals GM George McPhee but said, "Maybe I will [this] week."

To get Ovechkin, you can bet the Panthers, who currently have the seventh overall pick, would have to trade a package that includes Weiss, Jay Bouwmeester or both.


http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/h...ports-panthers


I wonder what florida offered for Ovechkin and what Washington asked for in return. Interesting if it's possible to do such a trade without trading J.Bo Luongo, Horton and Possibly Stewart.
Any package will have to start with Weiss, Krajichek, Huselius and #7 overall pick.

What are your thoughts on this?

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Old
06-06-2004, 11:08 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkForce
This is from today's Sun-Sentinel:

Russian intrigue

According to sources, before Dudley was fired by the Panthers, he was talking to Washington about possibly acquiring the No. 1 pick in this month's draft for the right to draft Russian phenom Alexander Ovechkin, whom Dudley has said "is the best player I've ever scouted."

Keenan said he has not yet talked with Capitals GM George McPhee but said, "Maybe I will [this] week."

To get Ovechkin, you can bet the Panthers, who currently have the seventh overall pick, would have to trade a package that includes Weiss, Jay Bouwmeester or both.


http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/h...ports-panthers


I wonder what florida offered for Ovechkin and what Washington asked for in return. Interesting if it's possible to do such a trade without trading J.Bo Luongo, Horton and Possibly Stewart.
Any package will have to start with Weiss, Krajichek, Huselius and #7 overall pick.

What are your thoughts on this?
I think maybe Weiss, Huselius and the #7 overall pick would actually do it. I'm not trying to be a homer here but Weiss is and has shown he is going to be a top 2 center in the league. Kristian can be a 30 goal scorer the only question with him is his confidence. The draft pick could bring the Caps another solid piece to the puzzle while the Panthers get Ovechkin. I think maybe you could if you like replace Hueslius with Lukas Krajicek who reminds me alot like Gonchar. I'm not saying Huselius and Krajicek value are about the same though because right now I think that Lukas has a far higher value then Kristian does right this minute.

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Old
06-06-2004, 11:23 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffshaf
I think maybe Weiss, Huselius and the #7 overall pick would actually do it. I'm not trying to be a homer here but Weiss is and has shown he is going to be a top 2 center in the league. Kristian can be a 30 goal scorer the only question with him is his confidence. The draft pick could bring the Caps another solid piece to the puzzle while the Panthers get Ovechkin. I think maybe you could if you like replace Hueslius with Lukas Krajicek who reminds me alot like Gonchar. I'm not saying Huselius and Krajicek value are about the same though because right now I think that Lukas has a far higher value then Kristian does right this minute.
There's no way McPhee is going to trade "the best player" Dudley has ever scouted for two soft, overrated second liners, and a #7 pick. Ovechkin simply brings a skill set and intangibles to the table that the Caps need and an all but sure-bet potential impact can't be traded for quantity.

I'd be surprised if FLA obtained the #1 overall for less than Bouwmeester and Horton. I'm not entirely sold on the idea of moving the pick at all, regardless of return.

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Old
06-06-2004, 11:36 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffshaf
I think maybe Weiss, Huselius and the #7 overall pick would actually do it. I'm not trying to be a homer here but Weiss is and has shown he is going to be a top 2 center in the league. Kristian can be a 30 goal scorer the only question with him is his confidence. The draft pick could bring the Caps another solid piece to the puzzle while the Panthers get Ovechkin. I think maybe you could if you like replace Hueslius with Lukas Krajicek who reminds me alot like Gonchar. I'm not saying Huselius and Krajicek value are about the same though because right now I think that Lukas has a far higher value then Kristian does right this minute.

Weiss and Huselius are similar players:small,nonphysical forwards needing to get top 6 icetime.25 yr old Huselius' trade value has to be an all time low.I don't see why the Caps want them both,so take out the older Huselius and replace him with J.Bo.

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Old
06-06-2004, 06:09 PM
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To get the # 1 pick from washington the first thing you need to do is get into the caps shoes and look at it from their point of view. First Ovechkin from our stand point is the next great player and the first franchise player in their history. Ovechkin value to washington is what mario's was to pittsburgh and nothing less. Based on that fact alone nothing that any team has will be enought to pry him out of washington just like no one could get mario. So please stop this nonsense about aquiring him for the pittance you all want to offer. Repeat he belongs to washingto and will stay in washington.

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Old
06-06-2004, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capman29
Ovechkin value to washington is what mario's was to pittsburgh and nothing less. Based on that fact alone nothing that any team has will be enought to pry him out of washington just like no one could get mario.

OK...AO is a great prospect, and the Florida proposals were too little.........


......but please, please do not compare his value to that of Lemieux. They are not even close. AO is good, and possibly great, time will tell....but he is not in the Lemieux/Gretzky stratosphere.

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Old
06-06-2004, 06:55 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig1
OK...AO is a great prospect, and the Florida proposals were too little.........


......but please, please do not compare his value to that of Lemieux. They are not even close. AO is good, and possibly great, time will tell....but he is not in the Lemieux/Gretzky stratosphere.
I think he means at draft time. (hope so anyway)

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06-06-2004, 07:32 PM
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I think that the only team that would have a chance is LA if they ofrfered Brown and Frolov which is a fair deal but not what LA needs. Quite frankly any team that trades Ovechkn is stupid.

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06-06-2004, 07:33 PM
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now if Pittsburg could somehow trade their 1st pick and MA Fleury for Ovechkn and Washingtons first rounder next year.

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06-06-2004, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig1
OK...AO is a great prospect, and the Florida proposals were too little.........


......but please, please do not compare his value to that of Lemieux. They are not even close. AO is good, and possibly great, time will tell....but he is not in the Lemieux/Gretzky stratosphere.
the concensus description of Ovechkin is that he is the best player available in the draft since Mario Lemieux. So, take all the top picks since Mario and this guy is supposed to be better than all of them. Noone has said that Ovechkin is as good as Mario, just that he is better than any since Mario.

I think its pretty obvious that the description of the type of player that he puts him in the Forsberg class of player. Big offensive upside and with a big defensive upside and the ability to play physical. You can make a case that Forsberg when playing is the best player in the NHL since Mario.

So,...I don't see a team being able to survive public relations/ticket sales wise if they traded a player of that level.

Lets say the deal looked like this.....
Bouwmeister, Horton, Luongo and the #7 for the 1st pick, the 33rd pick and Ouellet?

eh???

I didnt think you would go for that....but the fact is that if the caps did that deal and Ovechkin became Forsberg, the Caps would be pounded for that deal for years.

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Old
06-06-2004, 08:03 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd
the concensus description of Ovechkin is that he is the best player available in the draft since Mario Lemieux. So, take all the top picks since Mario and this guy is supposed to be better than all of them. Noone has said that Ovechkin is as good as Mario, just that he is better than any since Mario.

I think its pretty obvious that the description of the type of player that he puts him in the Forsberg class of player. Big offensive upside and with a big defensive upside and the ability to play physical. You can make a case that Forsberg when playing is the best player in the NHL since Mario.

So,...I don't see a team being able to survive public relations/ticket sales wise if they traded a player of that level.

Lets say the deal looked like this.....
Bouwmeister, Horton, Luongo and the #7 for the 1st pick, the 33rd pick and Ouellet?

eh???

I didnt think you would go for that....but the fact is that if the caps did that deal and Ovechkin became Forsberg, the Caps would be pounded for that deal for years.
That trade is just too big to ever be considered.

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Old
06-06-2004, 08:28 PM
  #12
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Didn't Dudley try to take Ovechkin in the 9th round last year citing some leap year age thing?

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06-06-2004, 08:48 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd
the concensus description of Ovechkin is that he is the best player available in the draft since Mario Lemieux.
Hmmm, where have I heard this before. More like how many times.

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06-06-2004, 09:07 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig1
OK...AO is a great prospect, and the Florida proposals were too little.........


......but please, please do not compare his value to that of Lemieux. They are not even close. AO is good, and possibly great, time will tell....but he is not in the Lemieux/Gretzky stratosphere.
No not close, at least not in the forseeable future.

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Old
06-06-2004, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd
the concensus description of Ovechkin is that he is the best player available in the draft since Mario Lemieux. So, take all the top picks since Mario and this guy is supposed to be better than all of them. Noone has said that Ovechkin is as good as Mario, just that he is better than any since Mario.

I think its pretty obvious that the description of the type of player that he puts him in the Forsberg class of player. Big offensive upside and with a big defensive upside and the ability to play physical. You can make a case that Forsberg when playing is the best player in the NHL since Mario.

So,...I don't see a team being able to survive public relations/ticket sales wise if they traded a player of that level.

Lets say the deal looked like this.....
Bouwmeister, Horton, Luongo and the #7 for the 1st pick, the 33rd pick and Ouellet?

eh???

I didnt think you would go for that....but the fact is that if the caps did that deal and Ovechkin became Forsberg, the Caps would be pounded for that deal for years.
Which is exactly why McPhee has already made the selection in his mind. Most scouts feel Ovechkin will surpass Forsberg.

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06-06-2004, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 ft. pole
now if Pittsburg could somehow trade their 1st pick and MA Fleury for Ovechkn and Washingtons first rounder next year.
We'll stick with Fleury and Malkin thanks

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Old
06-06-2004, 09:18 PM
  #17
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Supposedly, McPhee has talked to a few teams about the "VALUE" of Ovechkin. The Rangers are another team he has talked to, and Petr Prucha's named has come up. I don't think that means a deal is imminent. Rather, McPhee would not be doing his job if he didn't investigate Ovechkin's worth. Most likely, in the end, Washington keeps the pick. It doesn't hurt McPhee to listen.

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Old
06-06-2004, 10:46 PM
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Hasn't Rick Dudley been proven wrong enough?

Ovechkin is a very, very good young player. But I would not move Horton & Bouwmeester for him if I'm the Panthers, and I don't even like Bouwmeester all that much.

Regardless of how good he could be, he's still just a prospect. It's not the end of the world if a team doesn't get him.

Vincent Lecavalier was the best prospect since Mario Lemieux at one time according to scouts, remember.

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Old
06-07-2004, 01:56 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Thompson
Hasn't Rick Dudley been proven wrong enough?

Ovechkin is a very, very good young player. But I would not move Horton & Bouwmeester for him if I'm the Panthers, and I don't even like Bouwmeester all that much.

Regardless of how good he could be, he's still just a prospect. It's not the end of the world if a team doesn't get him.

Vincent Lecavalier was the best prospect since Mario Lemieux at one time according to scouts, remember.
That brings up an interesting point: how many guys since Lemieux have been referred to as the "best prospect since ...". The ones that come to mind are:

-Owen Nolan
-Eric Lindros
-Alexandre Daigle
-Vincent Lecavalier
-Ilya Kovalchuk
-Alexander Ovechkin

You can also add Radek Bonk and Jason Spezza a year or two before their drafts, but not by the time those drafts came around. Sidney Crosby falls into this category for now as well since his draft isn't for a year.

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06-07-2004, 08:48 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
That brings up an interesting point: how many guys since Lemieux have been referred to as the "best prospect since ...". The ones that come to mind are:

-Owen Nolan
-Eric Lindros
-Alexandre Daigle
-Vincent Lecavalier
-Ilya Kovalchuk
-Alexander Ovechkin

You can also add Radek Bonk and Jason Spezza a year or two before their drafts, but not by the time those drafts came around. Sidney Crosby falls into this category for now as well since his draft isn't for a year.
Hasn't the scouting process has dramatically improved since Nolan/Lindros/Daigle? I have to believe that scouts would be able to pick up on Lindros and Daigle's issues today.

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Old
06-07-2004, 12:33 PM
  #21
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Scouting...

When Lindros was drafted he did not have any appearant flaws except for the personality of a five year old. So teams had no reason to think injuries and holdouts would destroy such an atractive prospect.

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Old
06-07-2004, 09:33 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forsberg4ever
When Lindros was drafted he did not have any appearant flaws except for the personality of a five year old. So teams had no reason to think injuries and holdouts would destroy such an atractive prospect.

Lindros was more hyped than AO. Lindros would have been considered the best player in the last decade if not for injuries (Outside a healthy Mario).......By the way, I have never liked him, but I am willing to admit this.

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Old
06-07-2004, 11:13 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire
Hmmm, where have I heard this before. More like how many times.
20 times.

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06-07-2004, 11:17 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd
Lets say the deal looked like this.....
Bouwmeister, Horton, Luongo and the #7 for the 1st pick, the 33rd pick and Ouellet?
Stupidest thing I've ever read.

Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd
I didnt think you would go for that....but the fact is that if the caps did that deal and Ovechkin became Forsberg, the Caps would be pounded for that deal for years.
No they wouldn't, not even a Forsberg in his prime is worth that much.
Luongo is already proving to be just as valuable.

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