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Old
09-22-2010, 12:30 PM
  #476
The Blue Devil
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Originally Posted by KapG View Post
Kaberle hasn't been an upper echelon player since the lockout. That was what, in 2005? So what happened to his game the last 4 or 5 seasons moose?

Kaberle is a one dimensional offensive dman. That one dimension, offense? Teams have caught on to it. Particularly on the PP where they can cheat because they know all Kabs is gonna do is pass the ****ing puck.
Yeah, 1-dimensional, he never plays in the D-zone and he never moves the puck out of the zone almost effortlessly, he also never removes the pressure by being able to get the puck out easily. Give your head a good damn shake, just because he's not overly physical does NOT mean that he's one dimensional. Jesus christ some of you are so clueless that it's painful.

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Old
09-22-2010, 12:38 PM
  #477
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Originally Posted by The Blue Devil View Post
Yeah, 1-dimensional, he never plays in the D-zone and he never moves the puck out of the zone almost effortlessly, he also never removes the pressure by being able to get the puck out easily. Give your head a good damn shake, just because he's not overly physical does NOT mean that he's one dimensional. Jesus christ some of you are so clueless that it's painful.
yah im the clueless one because I said Kabs is one dimensional. shut the **** up, real talk pal.

your the one who should give your head a good shake buddie. Kabs ain't one dimensional eh?

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09-22-2010, 12:43 PM
  #478
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Originally Posted by KapG View Post
yah im the clueless one because I said Kabs is one dimensional. shut the **** up, real talk pal.

your the one who should give your head a good shake buddie. Kabs ain't one dimensional eh?
Well as a Senators fan I think hes a pretty respectable defenceman. Its not his job to be physical, rather he moves the puck at a very high caliber to relieve pressure in what would spell doom for the average defenceman.

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Old
09-22-2010, 12:48 PM
  #479
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Originally Posted by KapG View Post
Kabs ain't one dimensional eh?
No, he isn't. His stick work along the boards and in corners is very good to compensate for the lack of a physical presence, he comes out the scrums with the puck all the time. Once it's on his stick, it attack over, his ability to skate out of hot zones in the D-zone is exceptional. Now that it's settled down, he makes one of the best first passes out of the zone in the league as we all know. That's good D right there in the same way Lindstrom (at a higher level) plays great D.

Very good overall positioning, he rarely gets caught pinching or running around at home. Needs to be paired with a bigger hombre that can handle the front of the net.

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Old
09-22-2010, 12:55 PM
  #480
The Blue Devil
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Originally Posted by KapG View Post
yah im the clueless one because I said Kabs is one dimensional. shut the **** up, real talk pal.

your the one who should give your head a good shake buddie. Kabs ain't one dimensional eh?
You're so close minded that it's pointless to argue with you!

Anyway thanks Squiffy.

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Old
09-22-2010, 01:11 PM
  #481
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Amazing that you think that being an upper echelon player in the NHL for years can be done by someone phoning it in and not caring. Those guys end up in Europe, just to let you know.
The problem with some Leaf fans is they tend to overrate their own players. You clearly think Kaberle is an "upper echelon" player in the NHL. Yikes.

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09-22-2010, 01:13 PM
  #482
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Originally Posted by Richie79 View Post
The problem with some Leaf fans is they tend to overrate their own players. You clearly think Kaberle is an "upper echelon" player in the NHL. Yikes.
Just because they may be overrated doesn't mean they aren't good.

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Old
09-22-2010, 01:14 PM
  #483
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Originally Posted by Richie79 View Post
The problem with some Leaf fans is they tend to overrate their own players. You clearly think Kaberle is an "upper echelon" player in the NHL. Yikes.
If I thought that you knew what you were talking about then I could take offence to that.

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Old
09-22-2010, 01:14 PM
  #484
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Originally Posted by Hockey Talker29 View Post
Yup, you're so right.

He is 6th among all d-men in points since the lockout. 6th!

He clearly needs to find his game.

I hate to break it to you, but whatever you think makes a player good is quite clearly wrong. He has been a top-20 d-man (and that is an extremely conservative range, because many would put him top-10) since the lockout. I'm not sure what you expect him to be exactly.

He plays well, and he earns far more money than he is actually paid.

As for the game, I was there. The team looked brutal, as well it should have, because there were very few good players playing.

My thoughts on the game

Overall, the only two players on the ice that I thought played well were Kaberle and Gunnarsson. Gunnar was our best player overall. Together, they were the only two players who could complete a tape-to-tape pass, and most of our offense came with them on the ice. Defensively they didn't make any glaring errors that I caught, although I missed the first Ottawa goal.

I was disappointed with Phaneuf's shot. He has to put that thing on net, or else it doesn't matter how hard it is. He needs to learn that not every one-timer needs to go top-shelf. If he just hits the net, it will give a lot of goalies trouble.

Lebda looked pretty good out there. Lashoff is absolutely brutal, as is Gysbers. They won't be playing much in the NHL this season.

Our forwards were absolutely horrendous. Versteeg appeared to be moving at half-speed and turned over the puck far too many times, especially on the PP.

Kadri looked horrible, unfortunately. This talk about him getting bigger appears to be a lie, because he was getting tossed like a ragdoll for the entire game. He looks no stronger than last year at this time. I hope he picks it up, but after last night, I can't see him making a significant impact this season. He needs AHL seasoning.

D'Amigo was the only forward who looked like he gave a damn. I was happy overall with him. He skates hard, forechecks well, and creates problems for the opposition on almost every shift. Unfortunately, his linemates were basically useless (Irwin and Mueller), so there wasn't much he could do.

In goal, neither goalie played very well, although the team in front of them was obviously brutal. I like the way Rynnas moves around the net though, considering he is huge. He has potential.

In any case, they played terrible, but it means nothing. The sky is not falling. There's 8 more games to work out the kinks, so hopefully they improve. We can't have a bad start again like last year.
It's obvious you love Kabs and that's cool. However - he's not a part of the vision, nor a part of the future Stanley Cup winning Maple Leafs. No need to argue or overrate him.
Do you seriously believe he'd still be here if he didn't have a NMC?
Do you seriously believe we can't replace him?
Should I even bother trying?

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Old
09-22-2010, 01:16 PM
  #485
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Originally Posted by Squiffy View Post
No, he isn't. His stick work along the boards and in corners is very good to compensate for the lack of a physical presence, he comes out the scrums with the puck all the time. Once it's on his stick, it attack over, his ability to skate out of hot zones in the D-zone is exceptional. Now that it's settled down, he makes one of the best first passes out of the zone in the league as we all know. That's good D right there in the same way Lindstrom (at a higher level) plays great D.

Very good overall positioning, he rarely gets caught pinching or running around at home. Needs to be paired with a bigger hombre that can handle the front of the net.
Here we go baby! This is a response that I can respect. You brought up some points that are very valid.

The comment that hit home with me the most was his ability to escape the hot zones in the defensive part of the ice. He hasn't lost that ability one bit.

I just wish he would be willing to sacrifice his body in the d-zone a little bit more when it comes to going into the corners. I know I am one of the few around here who thinks thist way, but he really hasn't been the same in his own zone since the Jansenn hit. It's not like people are going to **** around with him now that we have Orr on our team. There really is no excuse for his timidness. The other problem I have with his game is his predictability on the PP. Teams cheat on him so much because they know he just won't shoot the puck!!! Sure it was preseason lat night but look at both of those 5 on 3's. They didn't even bother paying attention to Kaberle when he was on the ice, instead they focused on Phaneuf the entire time.

I still think the Leafs are better off without Kabs on our team. It's time for us to move on from our past and IMO, Kabs is the final piece of that puzzle. It's just time for a change of scenery for the both of us.

cheers

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Old
09-22-2010, 01:16 PM
  #486
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Originally Posted by ElectricTicker View Post
Kaberle's best offensive seasons are from AFTER the lockout, not before the lockout. Leafs management even showed so little faith in him that they acquired Brian Leetch in the season before the lockout, effectively demoting him to 3rd pairing status.
That's where he belonged at the time. On the Third line! And let me clarify... Kaberle's best years have been when we've been missing the playoffs, year after year?

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Old
09-22-2010, 01:17 PM
  #487
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Originally Posted by The Blue Devil View Post
You're so close minded that it's pointless to argue with you!

Anyway thanks Squiffy.
Ill debate with you once you take off the Leaf goggles. I know hockey whether you like it or not.

cheers

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09-22-2010, 01:20 PM
  #488
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Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
Just because they may be overrated doesn't mean they aren't good.
You're right man... Kabs looked so good with Lebda last night that some Leaf fans are thinking Lebda can crack the top 6... We overrate Kabs. We've all done it. It's just shocking to see how many still do. There were no "decent" offers for Kaberle, and don't give me this BS about having one year left on his contract. If a 32 year old Scott Niedermeyer or a 32 year old Chris Pronger was available with one year left on there contract @ 4.25 million...I assure you there would be decent offers...that's upper echelon. Kabs..eh, not so much.

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Old
09-22-2010, 01:23 PM
  #489
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
If I thought that you knew what you were talking about then I could take offence to that.
the ever so witty mooseOAK No need to go on the defensive. You know your stuff, and my comments are not directed towards you and your character. I'm just stating a fact: Leaf fans overrate Kaberle. He's not upper echelon. If he was..he would have been traded last summer never mind this summer.

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09-22-2010, 01:24 PM
  #490
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Originally Posted by Richie79 View Post
You're right man... Kabs looked so good with Lebda last night that some Leaf fans are thinking Lebda can crack the top 6... We overrate Kabs. We've all done it. It's just shocking to see how many still do. There were no "decent" offers for Kaberle, and don't give me this BS about having one year left on his contract. If a 32 year old Scott Niedermeyer or a 32 year old Chris Pronger was available with one year left on there contract @ 4.25 million...I assure you there would be decent offers...that's upper echelon. Kabs..eh, not so much.
I can't wait to hear the responses to this.

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Old
09-22-2010, 01:24 PM
  #491
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The leafs will have a good team eventualy. "the sky is falling" is a little over dramatic. they didnt have Schenn, Komisarek, Kessel, Bozak etc in the lineup and its just a preseason game. half of the guys were just getting there feet wet reading plays etc. i think the reall test will be the last two or so games vs Miller and the Sabres.

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09-22-2010, 01:28 PM
  #492
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By the way, those jerseys looked sweeeeet

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Old
09-22-2010, 01:29 PM
  #493
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Originally Posted by Capitaine Gionta View Post
By the way, those jerseys looked sweeeeet
QFT.

quite the surprise hearin that from a Habs fan too !

cheers bud.

Roy 4 life

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Old
09-22-2010, 01:30 PM
  #494
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Originally Posted by Barbadian91 View Post
The leafs will have a good team eventualy. "the sky is falling" is a little over dramatic. they didnt have Schenn, Komisarek, Kessel, Bozak etc in the lineup and its just a preseason game. half of the guys were just getting there feet wet reading plays etc. i think the reall test will be the last two or so games vs Miller and the Sabres.
here here

Except having the captain playing poorly and the star prospect/offseason acquisitions stinking up the joint really doesn't inspire confidence. Luckily the first game of the preseason means nothing even for preseason standards.

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Old
09-22-2010, 01:30 PM
  #495
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Originally Posted by KapG View Post
I can't wait to hear the responses to this.
Just shows what other GMs think of our "best" dman Tomas Kaberle He's makes great passes and has decent stick work though? I guess that's all it takes to be overrated by Leaf homers. Admit it! He must make you nervous when you see Kabs in our own end!

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Old
09-22-2010, 01:32 PM
  #496
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Originally Posted by Capitaine Gionta View Post
By the way, those jerseys looked sweeeeet
Guess it's a matter of opinion but I don't like the white collar.

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09-22-2010, 01:33 PM
  #497
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Originally Posted by Richie79 View Post
Just shows what other GMs think of our "best" dman Tomas Kaberle He's makes great passes and has decent stick work though? I guess that's all it takes to be overrated by Leaf homers. Admit it! He must make you nervous when you see Kabs in our own end!
i think he's so "over-rated" because other than Shenn he is the only remaining legacy of earlier regimes on D

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09-22-2010, 01:37 PM
  #498
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here here

Except having the captain playing poorly and the star prospect/offseason acquisitions stinking up the joint really doesn't inspire confidence. Luckily the first game of the preseason means nothing even for preseason standards.
ya Dion didnt have the best game of his life . he was a little slow at first and wasnt getting into the right positions but i really hope he gets going. Kadri looked very awkward to me last night. i think hes still getting used to all the weight he put on in the offseason. also it doesnt help when Steeger is falling more then he is skating. I thought Armstrong had a pretty good game last night though. He was making some good plays and i really liked what i saw. The biggest problem i had last night was the PP. they were making some amazing cross crease passes to the boards that is . they need to just get back into the flow of things and get into the right positions.

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Old
09-22-2010, 01:38 PM
  #499
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Originally Posted by Richie79 View Post
Just shows what other GMs think of our "best" dman Tomas Kaberle He's makes great passes and has decent stick work though? I guess that's all it takes to be overrated by Leaf homers. Admit it! He must make you nervous when you see Kabs in our own end!
ummmmmmmmmm. He's a top-10 Dman in this league dude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Old
09-22-2010, 01:44 PM
  #500
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Guess it's a matter of opinion but I don't like the white collar.
I feel the same way, it just looks awkward, like a neck protector or something.

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