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06-18-2013, 02:15 PM
  #801
The Nuge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SephF View Post
I have a gaming PC and consoles. Certain games are just better on PC and certain games are better on console. I use my xbox almost exclusively for sports games right now and play games like Skyrim, GTA, Battlefield, Counter-strike etc on my PC.

I'll always have both, I love PC's because of the freedom. I have a huge catalog of N64, SNES, NES, Gamecube, GBA, NintendoDS games on my computer as well, and as previously mentioned the price is comparable to the new consoles (extra 1 or 2 hundred dollars)
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying PC gaming doesn't have its place. I just don't like it as much, and can't stand when PC gamers act like console gamers are somehow inferior.

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Old
06-18-2013, 02:36 PM
  #802
The Last Dynasty
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Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying PC gaming doesn't have its place. I just don't like it as much, and can't stand when PC gamers act like console gamers are somehow inferior.
frankly I'd rather sit in my la-z-boy with my 50" TV with surround sound playing a less powerful machine like a PS3 or XBox...than sitting in an office chair playing on a screen half the size and half the sound on a $2000 computer

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06-18-2013, 02:46 PM
  #803
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no, you're selling the multiplayer aspects of PS3 short

you saying "XBox live is light years better" was valid 5 years ago but PS Network caught up in my opinion...plus you throw in all the deals like free games and free multiplayers, the value is there
Yeah...

I think the selling point is not necessarily a consumer thing, but a developer thing.
100% of all Xbone games HAVE to be online, so they may as well only make either MMO's or competitive multiplayer games.

See what I'm getting at here?

100% of all Xbone customers will be REQUIRED to be online. Microsoft is trying to corner persistent world and competitive multiplayer. I think Microsoft doesn't care at all about single player games, and is letting Sony take it, while trying to carve out the niche of being the 'Multiplayer Machine'. Sony treats their online like a peripheral. It's 'there' like the PS Move is there for some people. It's an optional add-on for both developers or consumers. Games don't HAVE to support online, and PS4 owners don't have to be online.

100% of Xbone owners will be online. I think 30% of PSN owners actually use their PSN accounts with any degree of frequency (Data I have on this is largely outdated).


Let me reframe this paradigm:

Kinect is a FAR superior motion tracking technology than the Wii Mote.
Just Dance 2 on the Wii sold nearly 15million copies, and barely registered a blip (500k?) on the Xbox.
Why?
Kinect has a flimsy install base of 20million, while the Wii is pushing 100million.

SO using that same logic...
If roughly 30% of PS4 users will be online 100% of the time, then whats the point of a developer developing a game that reaches only 30% of that market?
Especially when it will reach 100% of the Xbone Market.

SO.. I'm sorry if I sold the technology short. What I'm doing is I am selling the install-base short.

An install base that is vehemently opposed to being online all the time.
Thus they are an install base that NO Developer will want to develop online-only games for.


Last edited by Perfect_Drug: 06-18-2013 at 02:52 PM.
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06-18-2013, 02:52 PM
  #804
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Just goes to show you how much the Wii slaughtered the market. Wow

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Old
06-18-2013, 02:52 PM
  #805
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Yeah..I'm with the console guys. I've never been a PC gamer and have no in becoming one. When someone mentions "oh don't worry, it's on PC too" it means nothing to mean. Nothing against people who like PC's but that's just not me.

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06-18-2013, 03:20 PM
  #806
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Originally Posted by The Last Dynasty View Post
frankly I'd rather sit in my la-z-boy with my 50" TV with surround sound playing a less powerful machine like a PS3 or XBox...than sitting in an office chair playing on a screen half the size and half the sound on a $2000 computer
What if I told you that you can hook your computer up to your 50" TV while sitting in your la-z-boy? You can also plug an xbox controller right into your PC if you don't like keyboard + mouse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying PC gaming doesn't have its place. I just don't like it as much, and can't stand when PC gamers act like console gamers are somehow inferior.

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Old
06-18-2013, 03:26 PM
  #807
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Originally Posted by SephF View Post
What if I told you that you can hook your computer up to your 50" TV while sitting in your la-z-boy? You can also plug an xbox controller right into your PC if you don't like keyboard + mouse.
I'd tell you I'm too damn lazy to do it...considering I gotta un-hook it to put it back on my desk after I'm done
that and my wife would most likely wanna use the comp while I'm gaming

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06-18-2013, 03:36 PM
  #808
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Originally Posted by SephF View Post
What if I told you that you can hook your computer up to your 50" TV while sitting in your la-z-boy? You can also plug an xbox controller right into your PC if you don't like keyboard + mouse.
All that effort for what? The $600+ PC isn't going to be much different than the PS4. I'd rather not go through all that effort. When I get home from a long day at work, I don't want to spend half my time setting everything up. I'd rather just turn on my console.

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06-18-2013, 03:40 PM
  #809
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This is why I wished the Steam Box wasn't DOA.

:/

I would have preferred this to either console:




(Not the PISTON per se, but the actual Valve sanctioned 'Steam Box').





My hate for everything Microsoft, and Sony is offset by my love for everything Valve, and Google.


Last edited by Perfect_Drug: 06-18-2013 at 03:56 PM.
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Old
06-18-2013, 04:18 PM
  #810
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
?

So.. thinking of getting both consoles is selling the PS4 short?


:/


BTW, XBLA is a VASTLY superior online service than the PSN. PSN hadn't even really fixed up their matchmaking until they leaked my credit card and account info. EVeryone that owns both consoles will tell you they SEE where the extra money goes with XBLA. Heck, Sony is completely reactionary when it comes to XBLA, because they never even bothered to fix this until they saw their game sales slipping due to Microsofts superiority in this space.

(And yes I own both consoles).

Also, most indie games are shovelware, so it's not a selling point for me. YES I have sifted through over 500,000 of the crappiest games ever, and it's not necessarily a hobby of mine to try all of them to see if i like them. There's maybe 1 out of every 40,000 indie games I might consider playing... and those are on Xbox one anyways (Notch's game, Blows game, Superbrothers game etc).


Sony will win the console race, that's a given, but there's no way they can compete in online space with a studio requiring 'always online' out of the box.


You tell a designer they have 100% market penetration for always online. Being always online isn't a tacked on feature.. it can be a HUGE design advantage for developers.
No offense meant, but shouldn't you as a game developer support the indie game market? You seem to blow it off as shovelware. Indie gaming is becoming less and less of a niche.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatKeith View Post
That it did. Nintendo blew them both out of the water in terms of sales, but the ps3 was a distant third. I still question why Sony entered the handheld market when Nintendo has buried every competitor since day one and that doesn't appear to be changing anytime soon.
Nope, the Xbox 360 was king in the US, but I've read time and time again that the PS3 has virtually caught up or surpassed the 360 in worldwide sales despite a one year headstart for the 360.
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
Didn't they do that in the PS2 days when Sony was destroying the Gamecube and original Xbox? I am sure Sony thought they were invincible back then. Which explains the launch of the PSP and the PS3.

It's been interesting to see MS now act with similar arrogance as Sony back when they launched the PS3. Anyone remember "the next generation starts when we say it starts"? MS acted like people would buy the XBone no matter what. And they may have already killed off their relevancy for the next generation as a result.

Frankly, the XBone announcement has been so disastrous, it wouldn't surprise me at all to see major shakeups at MS.
I was thinking the same thing. Back in 2005 or whatever it was Sony was the arrogant company assuming everyone would just buy the PS3 at launch because everyone had a PS2.

It would be nice to see Microsoft get humbled. By all accounts the PS4 is destroying the Xbone in preorders. Lets see if Microsoft eases up on some of its policies if they get off to a bad start.

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Old
06-18-2013, 04:24 PM
  #811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
Yeah...

I think the selling point is not necessarily a consumer thing, but a developer thing.
100% of all Xbone games HAVE to be online, so they may as well only make either MMO's or competitive multiplayer games.

See what I'm getting at here?

100% of all Xbone customers will be REQUIRED to be online. Microsoft is trying to corner persistent world and competitive multiplayer. I think Microsoft doesn't care at all about single player games, and is letting Sony take it, while trying to carve out the niche of being the 'Multiplayer Machine'. Sony treats their online like a peripheral. It's 'there' like the PS Move is there for some people. It's an optional add-on for both developers or consumers. Games don't HAVE to support online, and PS4 owners don't have to be online.

100% of Xbone owners will be online. I think 30% of PSN owners actually use their PSN accounts with any degree of frequency (Data I have on this is largely outdated).


Let me reframe this paradigm:

Kinect is a FAR superior motion tracking technology than the Wii Mote.
Just Dance 2 on the Wii sold nearly 15million copies, and barely registered a blip (500k?) on the Xbox.
Why?
Kinect has a flimsy install base of 20million, while the Wii is pushing 100million.

SO using that same logic...
If roughly 30% of PS4 users will be online 100% of the time, then whats the point of a developer developing a game that reaches only 30% of that market?
Especially when it will reach 100% of the Xbone Market.

SO.. I'm sorry if I sold the technology short. What I'm doing is I am selling the install-base short.

An install base that is vehemently opposed to being online all the time.
Thus they are an install base that NO Developer will want to develop online-only games for.
Well that's probably why I'm jumping ship to Sony. I only play online for NHL and NBA2k. Despite owning a 360 I have never bought a Halo, GoW, or COD game. Those shooting type games just have never been fun to me, neither is playing online with them. I bought a 360 because I wanted to play Mass Effect, that was the system seller for me (and it ended up on PS3 a few years later lol...)

Games like Infamous Second Son and Watchdogs are games I bet I'll enjoy way more than CoD Ghosts. So that's probably why I'm jumping ship, but the 100 dollar price tag difference sure helps make it an easier decision haha.

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Old
06-18-2013, 04:40 PM
  #812
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No offense meant, but shouldn't you as a game developer support the indie game market? You seem to blow it off as shovelware. Indie gaming is becoming less and less of a niche.
Totally. I should be.

Unfortunately I know too many indie developers that try and make as much shovelware as possible in hopes something 'sticks'.

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Old
06-18-2013, 04:56 PM
  #813
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I'm really torn on what system I would get.

I actually don't mind the DRM or internet check-in on the Xbox. I don't borrow games and I'm always online anyway, so it really isn't a problem.

The daily updates kind of scare me though. I basically live in the middle of nowhere and have probably the closest thing you can get to dial-up. I don't really want to have to wait 10-20+ minutes every day to patch a game before I can play it.

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06-18-2013, 05:09 PM
  #814
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I'm really torn on what system I would get.

I actually don't mind the DRM or internet check-in on the Xbox. I don't borrow games and I'm always online anyway, so it really isn't a problem.

The daily updates kind of scare me though. I basically live in the middle of nowhere and have probably the closest thing you can get to dial-up. I don't really want to have to wait 10-20+ minutes every day to patch a game before I can play it.
What kind of speeds do you have?

MS recommends at least 1.5Mbit

Quote:
For an optimal experience, we recommend a broadband connection of 1.5Mbps. (For reference, the average global internet connection speed as measured recently by Akamai was 2.9 Mbps). In areas where an Ethernet connection is not available, you can connect using mobile broadband.

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Old
06-18-2013, 05:19 PM
  #815
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
I'm really torn on what system I would get.

I actually don't mind the DRM or internet check-in on the Xbox. I don't borrow games and I'm always online anyway, so it really isn't a problem.

The daily updates kind of scare me though. I basically live in the middle of nowhere and have probably the closest thing you can get to dial-up. I don't really want to have to wait 10-20+ minutes every day to patch a game before I can play it.
I am torn as well. I probably won't get either right away so I still have a lot of time to figure it out.

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Old
06-18-2013, 05:37 PM
  #816
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What kind of speeds do you have?

MS recommends at least 1.5Mbit
Not sure. I'll have to check when I get home.

I'm pretty sure it's quite a bit worse than that though.

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06-18-2013, 05:42 PM
  #817
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I honestly think it will come down to:

Multi Player console = Xbone
Single Player console = PS4

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06-18-2013, 05:58 PM
  #818
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I honestly think it will come down to:

Multi Player console = Xbone
Single Player console = PS4
I think that is a ridiculous oversimplification. Are you saying you expect everyone that wants to play multiplayer games to get an XBone over a PS4?

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Not sure. I'll have to check when I get home.

I'm pretty sure it's quite a bit worse than that though.
Crappy. Well you may have to go with the PS4 then.

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Old
06-18-2013, 06:03 PM
  #819
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Crappy. Well you may have to go with the PS4 then.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

I've always had an Xbox, but I've never been an Xbox fanboy though, so it wouldn't be that bad. I've never bought a Gears of War game and I think I played the last Halo for two weeks and has been collecting dust ever since.

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06-18-2013, 06:09 PM
  #820
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
I honestly think it will come down to:

Multi Player console = Xbone
Single Player console = PS4
It's been that way for awhile. Even when the N64 had 4 controller ports the PS2 had 2...

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Old
06-18-2013, 06:14 PM
  #821
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Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
I honestly think it will come down to:

Multi Player console = Xbone
Single Player console = PS4
couldn't disagree more.....maybe it was that way with the n64 and ps2, and u could argue xbox 360 and ps3.


but ps4 has caught up, and it can do both as well, if not better than the xbox done

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06-18-2013, 06:32 PM
  #822
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I don't get why people think PS4 can't do everything the Xbone advertised it can do. Cloud computing has nothing to do with the console, so that is moot point with expandable worlds (unless they are cloud computing using your own consoles, which then raises serious questions about bandwidth). Both consoles can do Cloud computing and rendering, all they need is enough bandwidth to transfer the data to the console so it can be rendered on screen.

Secondly, the typical online experience isn't going to change for majority of players, seeing as how shooters and sports is what most people go online to play on console. Doesn't matter you have every console user connect to the internet, if a person goes online, its the same experience on both console, and if they don't go online, well, its just a single player game then.

From a consumer standpoint, the experience on one console to the other isn't going to change if you go online for both, as both consoles are capable of doing the same thing.

The only major advantage I can think of for always online for every single console, and thus every single person owning a game, is something similar to Demon's souls online experience, where you can invade a person's single player game, and see ghosts of everybody who failed before you. However, same argument applies again is that if your online on the PS4, you get the same experience, but with less ghosts/invaders maybe.

Until a developer can prove that being always online can provide an experience that cannot be matched by someone connecting online only when they want to, I don't see any reason to bring up the always online aspect of Xbone being a positive.

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Old
06-18-2013, 06:38 PM
  #823
The Nuge
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It's been that way for awhile. Even when the N64 had 4 controller ports the PS2 had 2...
You could buy splitters for the PS2

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Old
06-18-2013, 07:46 PM
  #824
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You could buy splitters for the PS2
Well you could as far back as the Genesis goes.

But I can't think of too many games that were more than 2-P that aren't sports ones.

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Old
06-18-2013, 08:12 PM
  #825
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For me the advantage of console gaming is that I know that for likely 10 years the machine I bought will play all new games just as well as my neighbour's PS4 or Xbox One.

You can't always say the same about PC Gaming. And although games might play there's always that thought in the back of your mind "that new $400 graphics card would make this game kick some serious ass".

However as PCs become easier to fit into your living room the decision between console gaming and PC gaming is becoming much narrower.

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