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Old
06-18-2013, 08:14 PM
  #826
The Nuge
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Originally Posted by GreatKeith View Post
Well you could as far back as the Genesis goes.

But I can't think of too many games that were more than 2-P that aren't sports ones.
Same goes for the N64. I had it out the other day with a few friends and pretty much all we could play from the ~25 games I had was super smash bros

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06-18-2013, 08:36 PM
  #827
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Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
Same goes for the N64. I had it out the other day with a few friends and pretty much all we could play from the ~25 games I had was super smash bros
Well there's usually Mario Games: Golf, Party, Tennis, Kart as well as games like Goldeneye, Star Fox, Conker's Bad Fur Day, Perfect Dark...


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06-18-2013, 09:58 PM
  #828
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Originally Posted by GreatKeith View Post
Well there's usually Mario Games: Golf, Party, Tennis, Kart as well as games like Goldeneye, Star Fox, Conker's Bad Fur Day, Perfect Dark...
There definitely are some. My point is just that its not like every N64 game was 4 player and every PlayStation game single player

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06-18-2013, 10:40 PM
  #829
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I'd tell you I'm too damn lazy to do it...considering I gotta un-hook it to put it back on my desk after I'm done
that and my wife would most likely wanna use the comp while I'm gaming
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All that effort for what? The $600+ PC isn't going to be much different than the PS4. I'd rather not go through all that effort. When I get home from a long day at work, I don't want to spend half my time setting everything up. I'd rather just turn on my console.
It's not very practical to be moving your PC back and forth obviously, it would have to be more of a permanent set up, or if your desk is in the same room as your TV you could just run a cord (might have to be a little creative but still).

The next thing I want to build is a little media box to keep under my TV permanently, use it for streaming and all my emulators / roms... depending on how beefy of a card I can fit in it maybe use it for more demanding PC games as well. You can get pretty small micro atx cases like this :





Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatKeith View Post
Well there's usually Mario Games: Golf, Party, Tennis, Kart as well as games like Goldeneye, Star Fox, Conker's Bad Fur Day, Perfect Dark...
There was around ~200 n64 titles that were 1-4 player, a lot of obscure titles obviously but they had a pretty big collection.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nintendo_64_games

(you can sort by # of players)

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06-18-2013, 11:17 PM
  #830
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Originally Posted by SephF View Post
There was around ~200 n64 titles that were 1-4 player, a lot of obscure titles obviously but they had a pretty big collection.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nintendo_64_games

(you can sort by # of players)
That doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

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06-19-2013, 12:13 AM
  #831
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frankly I'd rather sit in my la-z-boy with my 50" TV with surround sound playing a less powerful machine like a PS3 or XBox...than sitting in an office chair playing on a screen half the size and half the sound on a $2000 computer
This is my thinking for being a console guy instead of a PC gamer.

I spend enough time at work in front of a computer, I want to be able to get away from one and sit in front of a TV on a couch, not in front of a monitor, not on a keyboard and mouse.

The physical separation of PC and console makes the act of playing games more fun. Which probably sounds silly.

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06-19-2013, 12:59 AM
  #832
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This is my thinking for being a console guy instead of a PC gamer.

I spend enough time at work in front of a computer, I want to be able to get away from one and sit in front of a TV on a couch, not in front of a monitor, not on a keyboard and mouse.

The physical separation of PC and console makes the act of playing games more fun. Which probably sounds silly.
Not at all. That is completely reasonable. But the thing is, for an investment that is admittedly larger than any console, you can purchase a PC in a mini chassis and connect it to your TV. You can get a wireless keyboard and mouse and have your netflix and other PC applications on that tv. You can even hook an Xbox 360 controller up to the PC and have that type of control if desired. Almost anything any console can do and more can be replicated with a PC. I am surprised more people don't have computers hooked up to their tvs these days.

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06-19-2013, 01:06 AM
  #833
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couldn't disagree more.....maybe it was that way with the n64 and ps2, and u could argue xbox 360 and ps3.
but ps4 has caught up, and it can do both as well, if not better than the xbox done
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I think that is a ridiculous oversimplification. Are you saying you expect everyone that wants to play multiplayer games to get an XBone over a PS4?
K, let me preface by saying what I think is PURELY conjecture. And yes, I do think that is the case.



A minor percentage of people who might want to dabble in online, with a community that seems vehemently opposed to the idea of it being required. Those people might have 56k dialup, or live in some place without proper internet access.

vs.

100% of Xbox users with a 1.5meg connection speed.



You really can't fathom the developer benefits to that? You honestly can't see which of the 2 will have superior multiplayer experiences?


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06-19-2013, 01:37 AM
  #834
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Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
K, let me preface by saying what I think is PURELY conjecture. And yes, I do think that is the case.

Let me phrase it like this:

A minor percentage of people who might want to dabble in online, with a community that seems vehemently opposed to the idea of it being required. Those people might have 56k dialup, or live in some place without proper internet access.
vs.
100% of Xbox users with a 1.5meg connection speed.



You really can't fathom the developer benefits to that? You honestly can't see which of the 2 console will have superior multiplayer experiences?
I can absolutely see how a developer can benefit from that. But you are making it seem like PS4 will have little online community to speak of. Anyone willing to pay for an XBox gold account to play online will also be willing to pay for a PlayStation Plus subscription for a fairly similar experience. And the other thing to consider with developers, is that they go where the console sales go.

I think you are underestimating the number of people that would feel uncomfortable having a mic/camera they have little control over in their living room. And then there are those that don't like the idea of not really owning the games they buy. People have legitimate complaints with the direction MS is taking the XBone. Suggesting that most will put all that aside and buy it anyways if they want the ability to play multiplayer games seems like a stretch, when Sony offers a very similar opportunity with more flexibility that is also cheaper.

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06-19-2013, 01:43 AM
  #835
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Originally Posted by AUAIOMRN View Post
If you've played Dark Souls (or Demon's souls), how would you say the difficulty compares?

Also, is the game free-roaming or is it more mission based (like, say, Infamous)?
I haven't played those other games, but I understand they are notoriously hard. I'm a mediocre to below-average game player, and I can just get by on LAST OF US, maybe dying about 3-5 times on the hardest encounters before getting past them, sometimes with a bit of help from an internet walkthrough.

It's not free-roaming, it just looks that way. You wander, but along a set path, and the encounters are quite scripted, very similar to the UNCHARTED games (and less-free roaming than INFAMOUS).

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06-19-2013, 01:49 AM
  #836
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
I can absolutely see how a developer can benefit from that. But you are making it seem like PS4 will have little online community to speak of. Anyone willing to pay for an XBox gold account to play online will also be willing to pay for a PlayStation Plus subscription for a fairly similar experience. And the other thing to consider with developers, is that they go where the console sales go.

I think you are underestimating the number of people that would feel uncomfortable having a mic/camera they have little control over in their living room. And then there are those that don't like the idea of not really owning the games they buy. People have legitimate complaints with the direction MS is taking the XBone. Suggesting that most will put all that aside and buy it anyways if they want the ability to play multiplayer games seems like a stretch, when Sony offers a very similar opportunity with more flexibility that is also cheaper.
You could very well be right. I'm definitely not any kind of authority on this.


But the way I still see it:

Competetive Multiplayer Exclusives:
Gears of War
Halo
Titanfall
Sunset Overdrive

vs.

Killzone (Which has a pretty weak MP).

On top of that, publishers might prefer the DRM model. They might want liscence checks. That stuff is out of Sony's hand, but it doesn't mean it won't be there.

BTW, always on kinect/camera won't pass legislation:
http://www.house.gov/capuano/news/2013/pr061313.shtml
http://www.warpzoned.com/2013/06/con...i-kinect-bill/


But I think for a lot of people those are still non-issues. M$ has a HUUGE HUGE HUGE PR battle ahead of them.



An interesting read:
http://www.oxm.co.uk/56558/peter-mol...out-the-cloud/

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06-19-2013, 05:08 AM
  #837
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Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
Yeah...

I think the selling point is not necessarily a consumer thing, but a developer thing.
100% of all Xbone games HAVE to be online, so they may as well only make either MMO's or competitive multiplayer games.

See what I'm getting at here?

100% of all Xbone customers will be REQUIRED to be online. Microsoft is trying to corner persistent world and competitive multiplayer. I think Microsoft doesn't care at all about single player games, and is letting Sony take it, while trying to carve out the niche of being the 'Multiplayer Machine'. Sony treats their online like a peripheral. It's 'there' like the PS Move is there for some people. It's an optional add-on for both developers or consumers. Games don't HAVE to support online, and PS4 owners don't have to be online.

100% of Xbone owners will be online. I think 30% of PSN owners actually use their PSN accounts with any degree of frequency (Data I have on this is largely outdated).


Let me reframe this paradigm:

Kinect is a FAR superior motion tracking technology than the Wii Mote.
Just Dance 2 on the Wii sold nearly 15million copies, and barely registered a blip (500k?) on the Xbox.
Why?
Kinect has a flimsy install base of 20million, while the Wii is pushing 100million.

SO using that same logic...
If roughly 30% of PS4 users will be online 100% of the time, then whats the point of a developer developing a game that reaches only 30% of that market?
Especially when it will reach 100% of the Xbone Market.

SO.. I'm sorry if I sold the technology short. What I'm doing is I am selling the install-base short.

An install base that is vehemently opposed to being online all the time.
Thus they are an install base that NO Developer will want to develop online-only games for.
You generally seem to be a reasonable poster but I'm not even sure what you are triyng to say here.

An install base that is vehemently opposed to being online??? No, more like an install base who doesn't want to cater to completely ridiculous regulations put forth by the companies that we are paying good money to.

You're (pull it out of your ass) math notwithstanding, it certainly appears that Sony has the head start this Gen.

Look, I'm an xbox guy since November 2001, but there is no way I'm going with them this generation. If they gave me anything at all, I'd probably still be with them. But a superior PS4 machine, coupled with a way more friendly interface (searching for the right word here) has turned me to Sony's side.

Basically every advantage that Microsoft can even try to claim (cloud gaming, do you really think this is gonna have a significant effect on your gaming experience, hope you have T3) is replicable on the PS4 without all the headaches.

And if you are banking on Xbox being the dance central king of the next gen, great, have fun dancing the night away, I could care less whether or not what xbox1 is doing to whoo over that sector. I have no interest in those games and I think you are overstating their importance. COD, GTA, Halo (yes I know this will hurt my argument) are what sell in big numbers. These are the games that make a console, and if PS4 outsells XB1 3 to 1 (which is conservative according to some polls I've seen) Microsoft is in some trouble when it comes to the console wars this Gen.

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Old
06-19-2013, 08:15 AM
  #838
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hehe It's an install based vehemently opposed to being ALWAYS online.

BTW, I did preface by saying EVERYTHING I rambled about was complete conjecture, and I am by no means any kind of authority on this.


^_^

Truth is, I honestly think Microsoft is really really gearing their system to being some kind of MMO machine that only focuses on online play with online multiplayer.

Whether they succeed or not remains to be seen, but I honestly think they will easily drop another $$half a billion in online only exclusives to win the war for hardcore online gamers.



And I hate both Xbox and Sony. I begrudgingly buy both.

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06-19-2013, 09:38 AM
  #839
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Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
hehe It's an install based vehemently opposed to being ALWAYS online.

BTW, I did preface by saying EVERYTHING I rambled about was complete conjecture, and I am by no means any kind of authority on this.


^_^

Truth is, I honestly think Microsoft is really really gearing their system to being some kind of MMO machine that only focuses on online play with online multiplayer.

Whether they succeed or not remains to be seen, but I honestly think they will easily drop another $$half a billion in online only exclusives to win the war for hardcore online gamers.



And I hate both Xbox and Sony. I begrudgingly buy both.
The "always online" hate is more out of principle than a lack of ability. I'm sure the vast majority of PS4 owners will still have the required internet access.

Another factor is that if the PS4 outsells the Xbox like many are predicting, then the player base will for PS4 will be much higher than Xbox, meaning more people to play against.

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06-19-2013, 10:48 AM
  #840
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Originally Posted by AUAIOMRN View Post
The "always online" hate is more out of principle than a lack of ability. I'm sure the vast majority of PS4 owners will still have the required internet access.

Another factor is that if the PS4 outsells the Xbox like many are predicting, then the player base will for PS4 will be much higher than Xbox, meaning more people to play against.
True, but the way I see it is more as a hard 'gate'. A closed system like Apple.

(I hope this isn't a bad analogy)

Now imagine we were talking about videocards here.
Imagine one console shipped with TITAN video cards, and the other console shipped with a wide array of all kinds of video cards... many of them possibly are Titan, but not all of them.

Most marketing and publisher departments would be ADAMANT that we hit as many 'video cards' as possible to expand the market for their games.

Exclusive games for the TITAN-ONLY console will make full use of everything that specific video card has to offer.

When a system is hard-gated, and enclosed, you are ensured 100% market penetration, and its just way easier to max out all the development specs for. Which IMHO is what M$ is trying to do.



But Like I said before, this is purely conjecture on my part.

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06-19-2013, 11:28 AM
  #841
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Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
You could very well be right. I'm definitely not any kind of authority on this.


But the way I still see it:

Competetive Multiplayer Exclusives:
Gears of War
Halo
Titanfall
Sunset Overdrive

vs.

Killzone (Which has a pretty weak MP)
How can you say the Killzone sequel, where they haven't shown any multiplayer, has a pretty weak MP compared to a new IP, which hasn't even shown any gameplay at all? Then you throw in Gears even though they haven't announced anything new about that. I was a big 360 guy over PS3 (even though I had both) and right now I'm sitting on the fence for the new consoles, but from all of your posts you're clearly not a neutral party. At least admit you're a bigger Xbox fan when you try and sway people.

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06-19-2013, 11:35 AM
  #842
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If Xbox1 can deliver the MMO experience that PC gaming does, or even close, then it is a winner in my view. That is the one thing I wish the 360 would do.

If that is their goal, they should do themselves a favour and say so.

As for the need for a gold account, I don't know anyone who doesn't already have one (my friends). I like the RPGs but the online gaming is fun too. I am always connected already. BTW, Xbox has stated in several pieces that you can turn the Kinect Camera off whenever you like and for however long you want. Thus is just a false argument in regards to the camera being on all the time. The user is in control of that.

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06-19-2013, 11:42 AM
  #843
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If Xbox1 can deliver the MMO experience that PC gaming does, or even close, then it is a winner in my view. That is the one thing I wish the 360 would do.

If that is their goal, they should do themselves a favour and say so.

As for the need for a gold account, I don't know anyone who doesn't already have one (my friends). I like the RPGs but the online gaming is fun too. I am always connected already. BTW, Xbox has stated in several pieces that you can turn the Kinect Camera off whenever you like and for however long you want. Thus is just a false argument in regards to the camera being on all the time. The user is in control of that.
The microphone is definitely on all the time. MS say if it's off then it's only listening for one command, but that would be pretty easy code to change, and all it would take is one secret national security letter to get MS to give the US government a microphone in every xbox owner's house. BTW, they could also do something similar with the camera. Why does MS make it a requirement to have the Kinect plugged into the system in order to use it?

As for an MMO like on the PC, I haven't played a ton of them, but what makes the XBone able to do this but the PS4 not able to? Real question, I honestly don't know.

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06-19-2013, 12:13 PM
  #844
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The microphone is definitely on all the time. MS say if it's off then it's only listening for one command, but that would be pretty easy code to change, and all it would take is one secret national security letter to get MS to give the US government a microphone in every xbox owner's house. BTW, they could also do something similar with the camera. Why does MS make it a requirement to have the Kinect plugged into the system in order to use it?

As for an MMO like on the PC, I haven't played a ton of them, but what makes the XBone able to do this but the PS4 not able to? Real question, I honestly don't know.
Absolutely nothing.
MMO's save server side. Doesn't make a licking difference if my PC is connected to the internet or not.
My character and the world he is saved in, will be updated no matter what.

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06-19-2013, 12:30 PM
  #845
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At least admit you're a bigger Xbox fan when you try and sway people.
I hate Microsoft for different reasons, but surprisingly I think they're getting a LOT Of flack for the Xbone.

Microsoft to me is synonymous with 'Clunky'. Nothing will be cohesive, every page will be covered with banners, ads, and be a cluster of slow running BS.

This is a Google search:
http://www.africapresse.com/wp-conte...earch-home.png
This is Microsoft search:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/crunchbase_p...85/22885v1.png

And that design philosophy runs rampant through EVERYTHING they make.
Microsoft releases shoddy products that are full of stupid things I don't want or need, cluttered, aggressive, and noisy. It's core philosphy is 'Bombardment' rather than elegance. Clutter over simplicity. And needlessly useless over functional.

That is why I hate Microsoft. And believe me I HATE them.

That said, I don't think the Xbone is BAD product. It is simply catered to a VERY VERY niche market of hardcore online multiplayer gamers with 1.5meg connection speeds.

Why does it sound like that's taking sides? I already mentioned before I hate both Microsoft AND Sony. They're both awful companies driven by awful philosophies. And I would prefer a Steambox.


And sure, I'll concede Killzone and Gears. But Killzone already has 3 games with mediocre multiplayer and is 'revered for it's single player', and really.... you think Gears of War is over?


Last edited by Perfect_Drug: 06-19-2013 at 12:37 PM.
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06-19-2013, 12:33 PM
  #846
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The microphone is definitely on all the time. MS say if it's off then it's only listening for one command, but that would be pretty easy code to change, and all it would take is one secret national security letter to get MS to give the US government a microphone in every xbox owner's house. BTW, they could also do something similar with the camera. Why does MS make it a requirement to have the Kinect plugged into the system in order to use it?

As for an MMO like on the PC, I haven't played a ton of them, but what makes the XBone able to do this but the PS4 not able to? Real question, I honestly don't know.
I didn't know that about thi mic. Thanks.

I am pretty sure there is nothing stopping PS from going MMO either. I am jut thinking that if this is the strategy for Xbo, then it might serve them well to say so. The always online thing would make more sense then to me.

As for the Kinect, I think it is a failed device that Xbox wants to tether to it's new system to force people to buy it. Not a fan of that.

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06-19-2013, 12:45 PM
  #847
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The X-BROX One may still lure in college bro's though.
They love the X-Brox 360, and I am sure they view the PS4 as a honda, when they want their mustang.

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06-19-2013, 01:16 PM
  #848
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I do find it kind of funny how people talk about Sony and Microsoft like they're the only players on the stage...

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06-19-2013, 01:37 PM
  #849
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I do find it kind of funny how people talk about Sony and Microsoft like they're the only players on the stage...
Yes theres a 3rd player at the edge of the stage in the dark that nobody can see, and nobody can hear it whenever it talks.

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06-19-2013, 01:40 PM
  #850
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Yes theres a 3rd player at the edge of the stage in the dark that nobody can see, and nobody can hear it whenever it talks.
And yet they still run the show.

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