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Proposal: Oilers & Hawks

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Old
06-05-2004, 01:23 PM
  #1
Mizral
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Proposal: Oilers & Hawks

To Edmonton: #3 overall pick in 2004
To Chicago: #14 overall pick in 2004, Alexei Semenov, Brad Isbister

What do you think? I figure Semenov could very well be expendable, even with his upside, considering Woywitka is nipping at his heels. Isbister already likely to be traded, and Chicago could use more size up the wing with only Bell being there when Daze misses his perrenial 40 games a season.

Clearly this means the Oilers get Barker, but I don't think Chicago is for sure going to be wild on him either. This works out well for the Hawks I think. Consider that Semenov would be a nice compliment for recently acquired Vandermeer as well.

Either way, I think I'm close to somethin' here.

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Old
06-05-2004, 01:32 PM
  #2
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I like it personally, Semenov is in the dog house for some reason, and i plain simply just want Isbister gone~!!! I think the Oiler's overpay here though, 20 yr old 6'6 defensemen with top 4 potential are worth more than that IMO.

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Old
06-05-2004, 01:34 PM
  #3
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I wouldn't do it. Semenov might be a project, but what a project. Isbister has value, and the 14th pick could be very good.

imo KP and his staff have shown an ability to draft well since 2001. I'm pretty confident they can get two good ones in the first round without giving up a guy who could play a decade of solid D plus Izzy and the pick.

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Old
06-05-2004, 01:34 PM
  #4
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YA...close to the propane tank you forgot to turn off after last night's BBQ.

JK, from an Oilers POV, Im still not sold on trading Izzy though. Izzy or Isnt he. ok that was corny.

but what the hell if he move into the top 3, lets take a stab at #2.

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Old
06-05-2004, 01:58 PM
  #5
Oilers Ent
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If the Oilers are going to trade up I can only imagine it would be for Malkin or Ovechkin.

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Old
06-05-2004, 02:02 PM
  #6
Seachd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikeisevil
If the Oilers are going to trade up I can only imagine it would be for Malkin or Ovechkin.
That I can't imagine. I think trading up is very possible, especially if they really like someone. But I don't see any possible scenario in which they could move up to a top-2 pick.

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Old
06-05-2004, 02:02 PM
  #7
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If you are moving Semenov I think you need to get a top 2 picks. The Oilers D is not all that young, although there are some kids waiting for a chance. But arbitration may push Smith out, Ferguson will not be retained, Staios is getting up there and if Cross was as old as he plays he would be dead.

I would push a package of Semenov, Isbister, Rita and the 14th pick and 25th pick to both Wash and Pitts. Both are short on NHL players and may baulk at paying what will surely be high asking prices from the Russian hockey federation with their withdraw from the IIHF.

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Old
06-05-2004, 02:10 PM
  #8
Oilers Ent
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seachd
That I can't imagine. I think trading up is very possible, especially if they really like someone. But I don't see any possible scenario in which they could move up to a top-2 pick.
Oh I realize that. The only point I was trying to make - rather unelaborately - was that the talent pool after 2nd spot really isn't worth trading up for as much. To the point of giving away a great d-man prospect... I'm not sure.

Although with the 3rd spot the Oilers would be able to pick up Montoya and secure their goaltending future.

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Old
06-05-2004, 02:14 PM
  #9
Seachd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikeisevil
Oh I realize that. The only point I was trying to make - rather unelaborately - was that the talent pool after 2nd spot really isn't worth trading up for as much. To the point of giving away a great d-man prospect... I'm not sure.

Although with the 3rd spot the Oilers would be able to pick up Montoya and secure their goaltending future.
Well, they wouldn't need the 3rd pick to get Montoya. I'd be pretty surprised if he wasn't available at #14.

But they don't have to trade up all the way to #3. There's definitely talent worth trading up for, even if it's just a few spots. If the Oilers really like Stafford, or Schremp, or Picard, or Thelen, or whoever, they're most likely going to have to trade up.

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Old
06-05-2004, 02:31 PM
  #10
thome_26
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Notta chance do they give up Semenov and their first so, in turn they can pick either Barker or Olesz IMO. Semenov's potential is endless- something like a poor mans version of Chara (not as strong, and say only 3/4 of the points Chara put up last year). But Semenov could develop into a top pairing defenseman just as Barker could.

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Old
06-05-2004, 03:09 PM
  #11
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Not for Semi.

I'd rather see almost any other Oilers D prospect (save Woywitka himself) go than Semi. He's proven he *can* play #4 minutes. Even if he's not the most physical guy for somebody his size, he's still got lots of reach and he's certainly willing to use that. Lynch, Greene... ok. Semi... no.

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Old
06-05-2004, 03:26 PM
  #12
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The funny thing is that I think I would trade Wowitka before I dealt any of Lynch, Semenov and Greene.

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Old
06-05-2004, 04:29 PM
  #13
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Woywitka, to me, is about on par with Greene and Lynch - I wouldn't really put one before the other - one is more offensive then the other two (Lynch) one is much more defensive and gritty (Greene) and one is kinda somewhere in between(Woy)

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Old
06-05-2004, 04:41 PM
  #14
Bohologo
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The funny thing about this board is that while the focus is on prospects, there is no patience with them. A year ago Semenov was coming off a great campaign, then he had the sophomore jinx, not unlike Ales Hemsky. Now everyone wants to trade him-for another youngster, who will no doubt have growing pains no matter where he plays. Before the Trade Torres Today campaign gets underway, why don't we all take a deep breath and show a little perseverence with people learning how to do their jobs at the highest level?

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Old
06-06-2004, 04:38 AM
  #15
Digger12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohologo
The funny thing about this board is that while the focus is on prospects, there is no patience with them. A year ago Semenov was coming off a great campaign, then he had the sophomore jinx, not unlike Ales Hemsky.
I don't get that about Semi last year...IMO his play didn't seem any worse or better than it was the year before, but MacT's patience with him sure seemed to be lessened the second time around.

He went from being the guy that supposedly was the reason we could afford to trade Janne Niinimaa, to the guy that got beat out by Scott Ferguson to replace an injured regular late in the season.

And I swear his play seemed no worse than it was the year before.

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Old
06-06-2004, 10:24 AM
  #16
Mr Sakich
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semi will be fine. I takes a long time for big dmen to find thier groove and oiler mngt know this. He is pretty much untouchable because nobody will ever pay enough to convince Lowe to give up on him.

As for the Chicago pick, it is pretty much useless to the oilers. With Brewer, smenov, bergeron, lynch, woywitka, and Greene challenging for major roles within 2 years, what additional value would the oil have in Barker? There are a lot of teams with much bigger needs for a franchise dman and they will offer a lot more than Lowe. IMO, this draft has 2 top picks, barker, then 7-10 pretty equal guys.

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Old
06-06-2004, 01:54 PM
  #17
s7ark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich
semi will be fine. I takes a long time for big dmen to find thier groove and oiler mngt know this. He is pretty much untouchable because nobody will ever pay enough to convince Lowe to give up on him.

As for the Chicago pick, it is pretty much useless to the oilers. With Brewer, smenov, bergeron, lynch, woywitka, and Greene challenging for major roles within 2 years, what additional value would the oil have in Barker? There are a lot of teams with much bigger needs for a franchise dman and they will offer a lot more than Lowe. IMO, this draft has 2 top picks, barker, then 7-10 pretty equal guys.

Agreed Barker isn't of too much interest to me either. But Olesz sure is. If we moved into the 3rd pick I would target him.

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Old
06-06-2004, 03:52 PM
  #18
Hemsky4PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Thompson
To Edmonton: #3 overall pick in 2004
To Chicago: #14 overall pick in 2004, Alexei Semenov, Brad Isbister

What do you think? I figure Semenov could very well be expendable, even with his upside, considering Woywitka is nipping at his heels. Isbister already likely to be traded, and Chicago could use more size up the wing with only Bell being there when Daze misses his perrenial 40 games a season.

Either way, I think I'm close to somethin' here.
Your very far away from anything here. Why would they trade 22 year old Semenov to make room for 20 year old Woywitka??? That's just wacky. That's a huge overpayment by Edmonton.

And Chicago want's Issister why??? Are they hoping he and Daze will alternate their injury schedules? "Izzy, you take October, December and March. I'll take November and February. Awesome! We'll both be around for January...WATCH OUT NHL".

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Old
06-06-2004, 05:51 PM
  #19
Seachd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark
Agreed Barker isn't of too much interest to me either. But Olesz sure is. If we moved into the 3rd pick I would target him.
I might have agreed with that a couple months ago. But if the Oilers had the 3rd pick, I don't see how they could pass up Barker. I really like Olesz too, but I'd hope the Oilers would take Barker if they were ever lucky enough to find themselves in that situation.

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Old
06-06-2004, 08:49 PM
  #20
s7ark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seachd
I might have agreed with that a couple months ago. But if the Oilers had the 3rd pick, I don't see how they could pass up Barker. I really like Olesz too, but I'd hope the Oilers would take Barker if they were ever lucky enough to find themselves in that situation.

I gotta disagree, we are lacking top end talent. D- men we are fine with right now. I don't view the talent level between the two to be so unequal that requires we draft a player who, while very good and would be useful, doesn't fill a need of the team.

My drafting theory is BPA or in the case of a tie (or close to a tie) draft by need. That is how I see Barker/Olesz.

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Old
06-06-2004, 08:56 PM
  #21
Seachd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark
I gotta disagree, we are lacking top end talent. D- men we are fine with right now. I don't view the talent level between the two to be so unequal that requires we draft a player who, while very good and would be useful, doesn't fill a need of the team.

My drafting theory is BPA or in the case of a tie (or close to a tie) draft by need. That is how I see Barker/Olesz.
But other than Brewer, the Oilers don't have top-end talent with d-men. They have lots of good young d-men with tons of potential, but not top end in my mind. I guess I just don't see it as a tie, and I think Barker is the BPA.

Of course, I wouldn't complain with Olesz. I'd just rather have Barker.

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Old
06-06-2004, 09:15 PM
  #22
s7ark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seachd
But other than Brewer, the Oilers don't have top-end talent with d-men. They have lots of good young d-men with tons of potential, but not top end in my mind. I guess I just don't see it as a tie, and I think Barker is the BPA.

Of course, I wouldn't complain with Olesz. I'd just rather have Barker.

A very good point. I am just not sure that Barker is the top end we need. He has a lot of comparisons to Brewer. If he was comparable to a young Leetch or Gonchar then I might agree with you. It just seems redudant to me.

I agree that Barker is a bit safer (no concussions) and maybe even a bit better. but Olesz is REALLY close to him and fills a need. I'd give him the nod.

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Old
06-07-2004, 12:16 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark
A very good point. I am just not sure that Barker is the top end we need. He has a lot of comparisons to Brewer. If he was comparable to a young Leetch or Gonchar then I might agree with you. It just seems redudant to me.
Barker is a lot more like a Gonchar or a Leetch than a Brewer. A quick look at their stats show that Barker is a MUCH more capable offensive player than Brewer is.

Stats from their draft years:

Brewer

71GP 5G 24A 29PTS 81PIM .41PPG

Barker

69GP 21G 44A 65PTS 105PIM .94PPG


One thing that sets Barker apart from some of the other top-end offensive defenseman is that he is about the same size as Brewer.

It is very rare for a kid as big as Barker, who played the majority of the season as an 17 year old, to put up the type of numbers that he did.

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Old
06-07-2004, 01:45 AM
  #24
GorillazXL
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I would do a Woywitka + Isbister + 14th Overall for Chicago's 3rd overall (I would ask for a 3rd rounder as well). I would then go for Barker. The Oilers would then have a nice "revolving defence" for the next 5 years.

Next Year....
1. Smith - Brewer
2. Semenov - Bergeron
3. Staios - Lynch
4. Ulanov - Cross

Maybe 2 years from now....
1. Brewer - Semenov
2. Lynch - Staios
3. Bergeron - Greene
4. Svensk - Veteran (ala Ulanov, Cross)

3-4 Years...
1. Brewer - Semenov
2. Lynch - Greene
3. Bergeron - Barker
4. Svensk ...etc....

GXL

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Old
06-07-2004, 01:53 AM
  #25
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Revolving defense??? Why not just keep Woywitka (who's 2 years closer to the NHL than Barker) and keep the 14th overall pick and let Isbister go to free agency. Defense is not this teams long term weakness. Game breaking forward(s) are what we need. No way we make this kind of deal, I'd resign my Oilers fan membership.

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