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NHL marketing is a joke

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Old
11-05-2016, 05:26 PM
  #1
joelef
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NHL marketing is a joke

last week two young hype stars , Matthews and Mcdavid , and what was on TV instead ? Tampa vs NY Islanders. No wonder these league keep getting beaten out by ANW.

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11-05-2016, 05:30 PM
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US or Canada, joeleaf?

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11-05-2016, 05:34 PM
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I like American Ninja Warrior, but that's a summer show, in which Hockey is not. Not sure I see the comparison.

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11-05-2016, 06:23 PM
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Hoek
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Not sure what NBC's decision has to do with NHL marketing. I think it's amusing that showing two American playoff teams over Toronto and Edmonton is somehow a huge mistake. Didn't they already pick up a Leafs game after Matthews' 4 goal opener, anyway?

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11-05-2016, 06:33 PM
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my point is the NHL is not marketing it stars.

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11-05-2016, 06:37 PM
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Tom ServoMST3K
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Hockey is a regional sport in the states.

By that I mean, most people will only watch their home team.

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11-05-2016, 06:42 PM
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joelef
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom ServoMST3K View Post
Hockey is a regional sport in the states.

By that I mean, most people will only watch their home team.
because of the NHL lously marketing

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11-05-2016, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by joelef View Post
because of the NHL lously marketing
Not sure they could have improved the situation a lot.

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11-05-2016, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joelef View Post
because of the NHL lously marketing
No, because there are about a million games every week and only a few are scheduled for national tv. My team plays so often that I can barely watch all of its games so watching other games is out of the question even if they didn't usually overlap with my team's games.

Consider the very high percentage of hockey fans that are inferiority complex riddled "please like my sport" meme-spouters on both sides of the border. If they weren't totally consumed by tribalism they'd be following a different sport.

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11-05-2016, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joelef View Post
last week two young hype stars , Matthews and Mcdavid , and what was on TV instead ? Tampa vs NY Islanders. No wonder these league keep getting beaten out by ANW.
uh hello? Tavares and Stamkos?

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11-05-2016, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joelef View Post
last week two young hype stars , Matthews and Mcdavid , and what was on TV instead ? Tampa vs NY Islanders. No wonder these league keep getting beaten out by ANW.
How do you define Marketing? or what do your view as marketing?

McDavid vs Matthews---oilers vs leafs

do you under American ideology(Ideology is part of Marketing)? If one was on a US team-- the game would have been televised on the states. However--it was two Canadian teams and neither player really stood out in the game.

Some Americans may be offended by this. But recent history gives evidence that American based viewership does not tune in to games where it is Canada vs Canada.

part of marketing is growing the game--however--how does showing American viewers two Canadian teams grow the game? Both NYI and the Bolts have to players that are marketed heavily by their teams in the US

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Old
11-06-2016, 12:48 AM
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Jeffrey93
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The NHL doesn't really decide what games get shown on US networks. Do they? I just assumed the networks purchase X number of games for national broadcasts and the broadcaster decides which ones they will be.

Anyway.....their marketing does suck....but this isn't marketing. Marketing isn't dictating what games networks air because two young talented players are in the game.

I can't imagine many mild fans in Texas would tune into a Edmonton/Toronto match-up because McDavid and Matthews are playing.

However, I will admit I tuned into an online feed lately and did note that during a commercial break some rule explanations occur. I was quite impressed. They didn't make it fun to watch though.....which was too bad.

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11-06-2016, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joelef View Post
because of the NHL lously marketing
I think the rule of thumb for any of the Big 4 Sports + NCAA is that the audience for any particular game is going to be a mixture of fans for participating teams and super fans who power watch that sport (with the former far, far outnumbering the later). Few teams in any sport are able to command consistent, non-fan ratings on a national scale.

The most recent example of this is the Cubs in the WS- and they had the benefit of the insane story behind them (break the 100+ year curse!!!). In NHL, pre-injury Crosby era Pens were probably the only team that was able to grab the consistent attention of the casual fan.

Also American Ninja Warrior is awesome


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11-06-2016, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey93 View Post
The NHL doesn't really decide what games get shown on US networks. Do they? I just assumed the networks purchase X number of games for national broadcasts and the broadcaster decides which ones they will be.

Anyway.....their marketing does suck....but this isn't marketing. Marketing isn't dictating what games networks air because two young talented players are in the game.

I can't imagine many mild fans in Texas would tune into a Edmonton/Toronto match-up because McDavid and Matthews are playing.

However, I will admit I tuned into an online feed lately and did note that during a commercial break some rule explanations occur. I was quite impressed. They didn't make it fun to watch though.....which was too bad.
Here's the official blurb from NBC group on the number of NHL games:
"106 regular-season games in 2016-17 14 on NBC and 92 on NBCSN the most since NBC Sports Group acquired exclusive NHL U.S. television rights prior to the 2005-06 season. During that season, NBC and then-OLN combined to present 64 regular-season games six regionalized games on NBC, and 58 on NBCSN."

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11-06-2016, 10:33 AM
  #15
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Thread has ZERO to do with marketing.

Signed,
Person who works in marketing

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Old
11-06-2016, 10:34 AM
  #16
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The shoe is on the other foot now. Used to be that the young stars were on American teams (Crosby/Ovi/Tavares/Stamkos). Now the young stars are on Canadian teams (McDavid, Matthews, Marner) due to them sucking for so long. Sets up a bit of a dilemma for the NHL as the networks probably think Americans don't want to watch Canadian teams.

The NHL can easily market Crosby, and even Ovi, in Canada. Can they market McDavid in the US? Dunno.

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11-06-2016, 10:43 AM
  #17
Epsilon
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The NHL is not, and will not ever be, a star-driven league, and particularly one driven by "X vs. Y" matchup hype. Why? Because those star players simply don't play enough, have enough of a consistent impact on the play when they are out there, and actually play directly against each other in a meaningful way.

Example 1: "Manning vs. Brady" - NFL

In this example, the two players don't actually directly play against each other. But each of them plays roughly half the game. And of that half, they are involved in (albeit sometimes at just a minor level) on -every single play-. So they have a huge amount of control and influence over what happens.

Example 2: "Curry vs. Westbrook" - NBA

Here you have two players who play almost the entire game, are involved in most of the plays, and are directly lining up against each other on the floor in switching offensive and defensive capacities.

Example 3: "LeBron vs. Curry" - NBA

In this case the two players aren't necessarily spending a lot of time matched up like in Example 2, but they are both playing most of the game and involved in dictating their team's offense - they frequently have the ball in their hands at some point of the offensive sequence. They are also the best players on their respective teams.

There are no NHL examples that are really similar, they are all fairly forced. The only thing that comes somewhat close is a goaltender matchup along the lines of Example 1: "Hasek vs. Roy" or something along those lines.

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11-06-2016, 11:59 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom ServoMST3K View Post
Hockey is a regional sport in the states.

By that I mean, most people will only watch their home team.
And those numbers bear out.

When a game is exclusively on NBCSN (i.e, without being shown on a regional net), the viewership is driven mainly from the two US markets involved in the game. When the game is being shown nationally by NBCSN but locally on an RSN, the viewership is way more than halved - most fans are watching their team on their own RSN.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey93 View Post
The NHL doesn't really decide what games get shown on US networks. Do they? I just assumed the networks purchase X number of games for national broadcasts and the broadcaster decides which ones they will be.

Anyway.....their marketing does suck....but this isn't marketing. Marketing isn't dictating what games networks air because two young talented players are in the game.

I can't imagine many mild fans in Texas would tune into a Edmonton/Toronto match-up because McDavid and Matthews are playing.

However, I will admit I tuned into an online feed lately and did note that during a commercial break some rule explanations occur. I was quite impressed. They didn't make it fun to watch though.....which was too bad.
The NHL doesn't pick-and choose the games that are shown nationally on any network. There are requests for the schedule to be set a certain way by broadcasters (for example, the numerous Leafs games on Saturday nights so they can be put on HNIC). Imagine that, Rogers wants the most-followed English-language team in Canada put on primetime hockey to garner the most viewers.

Meanwhile, the initial post mentions that it's NHL marketing to blame for the game not shown nationally in the US, when the game wasn't even shown nationally in Canada. This is another in the long line of blame misappropriation given to the League. Yes, the League does have its flaws, but assigning a "broadcast coverage problem" to the League is offside.

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Old
11-06-2016, 02:45 PM
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Tampa and the Islanders still had Tavares and Stamkos. Got to think the American fans would rather watch 2 teams from their country instead of Mcdavid and Matthews who play for 2 teams in Canada.

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11-06-2016, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by tony d View Post
Tampa and the Islanders still had Tavares and Stamkos. Got to think the American fans would rather watch 2 teams from their country instead of Mcdavid and Matthews who play for 2 teams in Canada.
But, what are the ratings when it is TWO American teams who have pretty big stars? What was the TV ratings of that game? How did it compare to any other televised pro sports matchups that night?

No matter whether it's LA vs NYR or any two American pro teams with stars, it's the same story - the interest is limited. The NHL isn't very good at marketing and it doesn't help when the NHL is careless, looking into expansion teams in Las Vegas when other American franchises need more stability and marketing/promotion (i.e. increasing popularity in supposedly established markets).

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11-06-2016, 05:23 PM
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But, what are the ratings when it is TWO American teams who have pretty big stars? What was the TV ratings of that game? How did it compare to any other televised pro sports matchups that night?

No matter whether it's LA vs NYR or any two American pro teams with stars, it's the same story - the interest is limited. The NHL isn't very good at marketing and it doesn't help when the NHL is careless, looking into expansion teams in Las Vegas when other American franchises need more stability and marketing/promotion (i.e. increasing popularity in supposedly established markets).
It's NOT the leagues job to do that. Do you have zero understanding of how franchising works?

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11-06-2016, 05:39 PM
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dechire
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Let's say you're an NBC executive in June and you're picking which matchup to feature on a national broadcast. Your choices are as follows:

A) Two teams with a majority of their fans living outside of your network's access region that have both lacked post-season records for several years
B) Two teams with a majority of their fans having access to your network and both won at least 1 playoff series the previous year

Now which game would you choose to feature ?

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Old
11-06-2016, 05:42 PM
  #23
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Unless it is the Stanley Cup Finals, an Edmonton/Toronto game will not (and should not) be televised nationally in the US. They simply would not draw enough viewers and even in the Cup finals the ratings would probably be the lowest since 1989.

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11-06-2016, 06:39 PM
  #24
Rob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon View Post
The NHL is not, and will not ever be, a star-driven league, and particularly one driven by "X vs. Y" matchup hype. Why? Because those star players simply don't play enough, have enough of a consistent impact on the play when they are out there, and actually play directly against each other in a meaningful way.

Example 1: "Manning vs. Brady" - NFL

In this example, the two players don't actually directly play against each other. But each of them plays roughly half the game. And of that half, they are involved in (albeit sometimes at just a minor level) on -every single play-. So they have a huge amount of control and influence over what happens.

Example 2: "Curry vs. Westbrook" - NBA

Here you have two players who play almost the entire game, are involved in most of the plays, and are directly lining up against each other on the floor in switching offensive and defensive capacities.

Example 3: "LeBron vs. Curry" - NBA

In this case the two players aren't necessarily spending a lot of time matched up like in Example 2, but they are both playing most of the game and involved in dictating their team's offense - they frequently have the ball in their hands at some point of the offensive sequence. They are also the best players on their respective teams.

There are no NHL examples that are really similar, they are all fairly forced. The only thing that comes somewhat close is a goaltender matchup along the lines of Example 1: "Hasek vs. Roy" or something along those lines.
Exactly!

When Gretzky was breaking records with the Oilers he still wasn't a big draw in the US. Fans were more interested in seeing other US teams.

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Old
11-06-2016, 07:21 PM
  #25
Fugu
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It's NOT the leagues job to do that. Do you have zero understanding of how franchising works?
I'm going to take pucky's side here, but what exactly do you mean? The NHL asked for applications for expansion, and then did some very thorough reviews of the applicants. They only received two this last go-around. It IS their job to select new cities/markets. They approve the facility, the potential owner and plan the entire process.

The franchising to which you seem to be referring is like McDonald's, where they basically just get ingredients and menus from the corporate (for example), but run independently of other franchises.

Is that what you mean?

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