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Methods for the NHL to Equalize the Cost of Doing Business Amongst Teams

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Old
07-24-2014, 03:48 PM
  #1
Tyler Biggs
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Methods for the NHL to Equalize the Cost of Doing Business Amongst Teams

MOD: I moved this from the salary cap announcement thread. I think there's a discussion that can focus on the differing costs teams face due to location, alignment, etc., and what the NHL can or should do about it to equalize things, aka, a form of enhancing parity.


The way it stands right now all players gets paid in American funds and taxed according to the laws of where you play...Canadian taxes are much higher than American.. What needs to happen is the league needs to step in and place an equalization tax on players playing in the USA that way Canadian teams are on a equal playing field.


Last edited by Fugu: 07-25-2014 at 02:31 PM. Reason: me
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07-24-2014, 04:44 PM
  #2
GordonGecko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Biggs View Post
The way it stands right now all players gets paid in American funds and taxed according to the laws of where you play...Canadian taxes are much higher than American.. What needs to happen is the league needs to step in and place an equalization tax on players playing in the USA that way Canadian teams are on a equal playing field.
lol Spoken like a socialist! You have it backwards, you don't need to take money away from players in favorable environments, you need to give the other players more money.

Teams in Canada or big cities like New York should have a compensating factor applied to their cap number so they are allowed to pay players more based on higher income taxes and cost of living. That would level the playing field


Last edited by GordonGecko: 07-24-2014 at 04:54 PM.
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07-24-2014, 04:48 PM
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mouser
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Estimated income tax on $1m in Edmonton/Calgary:
$278k federal
$98k provincial
-----
$376k total

Estimated income tax on $1m in New York:
$350k federal
$67k state
------
$417k total

Doesn't include FICA, Medicare, Canada Pension Plan, or other additional taxes.

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07-24-2014, 04:58 PM
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GordonGecko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mouser View Post
Estimated income tax on $1m in Edmonton/Calgary:
$278k federal
$98k provincial
-----
$376k total

Estimated income tax on $1m in New York:
$350k federal
$67k state
------
$417k total

Doesn't include FICA, Medicare, Canada Pension Plan, or other additional taxes.
Not sure if you included NYC tax in that but there is a city income tax here.

Also doesn't include cost of living

Consumer Price Index:
NYC: 100
Edmonton: 92.44 (8% cheaper)

Rent Index:
NYC: 100
Edmonton: 39.42 (60% cheaper!!!)

Source: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living...mid&region=019


Whatever the numbers are, cities with a big tax & cost of living burden should have more cap wiggle space than a place like tampa with no income tax and everything is dirt cheap

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07-24-2014, 09:13 PM
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Fugu
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Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
lol Spoken like a socialist! You have it backwards, you don't need to take money away from players in favorable environments, you need to give the other players more money.

Teams in Canada or big cities like New York should have a compensating factor applied to their cap number so they are allowed to pay players more based on higher income taxes and cost of living. That would level the playing field

What do you consider revenue transfer and the cap system?

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07-25-2014, 10:16 AM
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MarkMM
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Slippery slope, once you start intervening in off-ice factors to level the playing field, where do you stop? Taxes seem obvious, but some then point to cost-of-living...how about quality of life? How much extra space should be allotted to the Winnipegs and Edmontons of the world so that they're equally attractive as the New Yorks and Vancouvers?

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07-25-2014, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkMM View Post
Slippery slope, once you start intervening in off-ice factors to level the playing field, where do you stop? Taxes seem obvious, but some then point to cost-of-living...how about quality of life? How much extra space should be allotted to the Winnipegs and Edmontons of the world so that they're equally attractive as the New Yorks and Vancouvers?

My favorite? Sharing travel costs between the 30 teams.

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07-25-2014, 10:37 AM
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Yeah, Chicago and Boston are in cap trouble. Be interesting to see how both teams react to this.

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07-25-2014, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyler Biggs View Post
No wonder it's too expensive to take your family to a hockey game. Perfect example.
You lack a fundamental understanding of how the salary structure works in the NHL. Ticekt revenue drives up salaries, not the other way around.

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07-25-2014, 12:15 PM
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mouser
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My favorite? Sharing travel costs between the 30 teams.
I like my proposal better:

All teams have to fly the same air miles and have the same # of out of town layovers. So for example next time the Devils play the Rangers at MSG they'd first be required to fly to Des Moine and stay there overnight before flying into NYC for the game the next day.

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07-25-2014, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkMM View Post
Slippery slope, once you start intervening in off-ice factors to level the playing field, where do you stop? Taxes seem obvious, but some then point to cost-of-living...how about quality of life? How much extra space should be allotted to the Winnipegs and Edmontons of the world so that they're equally attractive as the New Yorks and Vancouvers?
Yeah I think what you say is exactly right. But I think if you just introduced a cap factor proportional only to local income tax level (based on where the player files) and stopped there that would be enough to level the playing field. Right now Tampa has a HUGE unfair advantage compared to say Montreal & New York City

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07-25-2014, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
Yeah I think what you say is exactly right. But I think if you just introduced a cap factor proportional only to local income tax level (based on where the player files) and stopped there that would be enough to level the playing field. Right now Tampa has a HUGE unfair advantage compared to say Montreal & New York City
Nashville has the same tax advantage and that does not help them. Fact is if a team is good, players will go there. Not many consider the tax ramifications. If they did Nashville would not have as hard of a time getting players as they do. Players go to Florida/Tampa Bay because of the weather and because Tampa Bay has a decent team right now, not really because of taxes.

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07-25-2014, 02:00 PM
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Nashville has the same tax advantage and that does not help them. Fact is if a team is good, players will go there. Not many consider the tax ramifications. If they did Nashville would not have as hard of a time getting players as they do. Players go to Florida/Tampa Bay because of the weather and because Tampa Bay has a decent team right now, not really because of taxes.
Tampa was able to sign Ryan Callahan for less money than he was asking from the Rangers that resulted in him getting traded

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07-25-2014, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
Tampa was able to sign Ryan Callahan for less money than he was asking from the Rangers that resulted in him getting traded
Tampa Bay also has a weather advantage that New York doesn't have. Are you going to give most of the teams a cap advantage because the California, Texas, Arizona, and Florida teams have a weather advantage?

My point in my other post was taxes aren't really as big of a deal as people think. Otherwise Nashville and Florida would have better players than they have.

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07-25-2014, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Preds33 View Post
Tampa Bay also has a weather advantage that New York doesn't have. Are you going to give most of the teams a cap advantage because the California, Texas, Arizona, and Florida teams have a weather advantage?

My point in my other post was taxes aren't really as big of a deal as people think. Otherwise Nashville and Florida would have better players than they have.
that doesn't change the money advantage...

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07-25-2014, 02:30 PM
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that doesn't change the money advantage...
I just don't see the money advantage that everyone speaks of as an advantage though. Everything else about the team/city/area plays into it. Yes Callahan may have taken less in Tampa Bay than he wanted from NY but did he take less because of taxes or did he take less because that's where he really wanted to be? If a player really wants to play somewhere alot of times they will take a lower salary just to play there if they have to.

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07-25-2014, 02:35 PM
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Noted in OP, but the latest round of discussion points has been moved to a new thread, from the salary cap announcement thread.

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07-25-2014, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Preds33 View Post
Tampa Bay also has a weather advantage that New York doesn't have. Are you going to give most of the teams a cap advantage because the California, Texas, Arizona, and Florida teams have a weather advantage?
Top players will prefer to play in hockey crazy cities, which tend to be the colder Northern cities. Sure everyone likes the sun and the beach, but they have all summer for that and this is a job they need to focus on. The only thing that really moves the needle is $$$

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07-25-2014, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
Top players will prefer to play in hockey crazy cities, which tend to be the colder Northern cities. Sure everyone likes the sun and the beach, but they have all summer for that and this is a job they need to focus on. The only thing that really moves the needle is $$$
Not always.

Some prefer markets where they are essentially "anonymous" in the crowds away from the rink.

Others want to not live in a fishbowl with dozens of reporters at each practice.

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07-25-2014, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Preds33 View Post
Tampa Bay also has a weather advantage that New York doesn't have. Are you going to give most of the teams a cap advantage because the California, Texas, Arizona, and Florida teams have a weather advantage?

My point in my other post was taxes aren't really as big of a deal as people think. Otherwise Nashville and Florida would have better players than they have.
Nashville and Florida don't spend as much on players which may be why people do not want to sign there or there may be other reasons such as where the wife wants them to play (ask pronger).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Preds33 View Post
I just don't see the money advantage that everyone speaks of as an advantage though. Everything else about the team/city/area plays into it. Yes Callahan may have taken less in Tampa Bay than he wanted from NY but did he take less because of taxes or did he take less because that's where he really wanted to be? If a player really wants to play somewhere alot of times they will take a lower salary just to play there if they have to.
true

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07-25-2014, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
Top players will prefer to play in hockey crazy cities, which tend to be the colder Northern cities. Sure everyone likes the sun and the beach, but they have all summer for that and this is a job they need to focus on. The only thing that really moves the needle is $$$
Please provide proof of this.
Some players like the spotlight others don't.
Much like some players like being the guy while others do better being one of a group.
Not everyone is the same.

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07-25-2014, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
Top players will prefer to play in hockey crazy cities, which tend to be the colder Northern cities. Sure everyone likes the sun and the beach, but they have all summer for that and this is a job they need to focus on. The only thing that really moves the needle is $$$
Bolded for sure, the rest though no, not so much. Impossible to generalize like that about talented individuals, some who may well feel crushed & smothered playing in a market like Toronto or Montreal. Anywhere where coverage is like 24/7 & they cant even go out without being approached by people. New York & LA quite a bit different in that regard, in comparison to the aforementioned Canadian markets & you could really include Vancouver, smaller markets in Alberta, Winnipeg & Ottawa as well.

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Please provide proof of this.
Some players like the spotlight others don't.
Much like some players like being the guy while others do better being one of a group.
Not everyone is the same.

Ya,
quite correct. All kinds of examples from the full history of the NHL starting in 1917 of guys who cratered in major markets but thrived in smaller ones & vice-versa. Some imploding in one major market by then going to another & completely resurrecting their careers. You cant generalize. Depends on the individual, who the Coach is, his team mates, whole range of factors.

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07-25-2014, 07:12 PM
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Fugu
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Please provide proof of this.
Some players like the spotlight others don't.
Much like some players like being the guy while others do better being one of a group.
Not everyone is the same.

He doesn't need to provide proof, tsanuri. It should be obvious that it's different strokes for different folks. Players over the years have discussed their personal preferences, some liking the big city lights, others not as much.

And of course, their spouses sometimes make those choices for them.

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07-25-2014, 08:10 PM
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California has the highest taxes in the league for millionaires, yes even higher than quebec after Medicare (2.3%), also has extremely high cost of living but they don't seem to have a problem getting anyone to any of the three teams.

Alberta has the lowest taxes in the league for millionaires, cheap cost of living and no one stays or signs there. (Ok not exactly true but you know the point I'm getting at).

Maybe they should allow calgary and Edmonton to play games in Palm sprigs and San Jose respectively to make it even.

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07-25-2014, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by azaloum90 View Post
that doesn't change the money advantage...
There are a variety of factors that come into play when a player chooses where to sign as a UFA. Some want to play in a big city, some want to go home, some want to play in a hockey mad market, some want to stay obscure, some want to play for a winning team, and some just want to make bank.

If you're going to 'tax' teams/players for the money advantage then you may as well tax them for the big city or the nice weather advantage.

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