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In the never ending saga of concussions

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Old
02-04-2014, 02:17 PM
  #476
Tinalera
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So if I'm reading that article correctly, they're seeing evidence of this white matter change within 72 hours-or 3 days.

It will be interesting to see if this continues to be verified, if the NHL owners look at this and start wanting to institute mandatory 72 hour (3 day) period for players who appear to be concussed-and do away with the "dark room" and other current Concussion protocols immediately following a hit.

In turn, opposing player who performed the questionable action also gets a 3 day or 3 game "vacation", whether that's a suspension with pay, without pay or something. This would have to be negotiated I would think

I just think this where the NHL is going to go within the next 5-10 years.

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02-04-2014, 04:46 PM
  #477
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http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireSto...sochi-22360384

US Ski team, and the NHL, will each have concussion specialists @ Sochi.

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02-04-2014, 10:38 PM
  #478
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Originally Posted by Tinalera View Post
I do wonder how long (in any league) before we start seeing players who get hit with what appear to be "concussion blows" (for lack of any better term on my part)-mandatory removal from current game and placed on inactive for x amount of days regardless of how they "feel" for precautionary reasons while undergoing testing. I mentioned this in another thread.
This does seem to be where the research is heading. And the research seems to be heading to the mandatory removal time not being X # of days, but X # of weeks.
One implication is that practically all contact sports will have to have teams with significantly larger rosters.

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02-04-2014, 10:49 PM
  #479
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then it becomes a tactic, a 4th line goon hammers a top player in a playoff series, goon suspended and not a loss while top player is forced to sit out and could lose a series because of it.

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02-14-2014, 02:51 PM
  #480
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Cracking down on sports concussions. Education, awareness, baseline testing.

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02-24-2014, 07:11 PM
  #481
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http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=444581

MLB approves new home plate collision rule.

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03-08-2014, 05:45 PM
  #482
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http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/09/sp...ncussions.html

Article looks at the findings from two recent studies of who is most susceptible to concussions in hockey.

Quote:
The profile, in simplified form: short players, defensemen or those who take a lot of penalties.

Younger players may also be more susceptible to concussions, as well as players with a concussion history. Despite Sidney Crosby’s head injuries in recent years, higher-scoring players do not seem to sustain more concussions than lower-scoring players, suggesting that the often-cited head hunting of stars does not actually take place.
...
The newest findings are the products of two recent studies. One was published in 2013 by Cusimano and researchers from the University of Toronto and Dalhousie University in Nova Scotia; the second is an unpublished paper by Peter Tanner, a financial data science manager who worked on President Obama’s 2012 campaign analytics team. They each examined team injury reports and newspaper and online accounts of players who had sustained concussions or suspected concussions, and analyzed the available data to assess risk factors.

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03-12-2014, 03:06 PM
  #483
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ESPN_NHL 12:53pm via ESPN News Gary Bettman -- NHL concussions down this season es.pn/N7j1Od

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04-21-2014, 12:51 PM
  #484
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http://www.theprovince.com/sports/ho...023/story.html

Vancouver's Alberts using innovative approach to recovering from concussion.

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Fortunately for Alberts, he's had access to Vancouver chiropractor Dr. Don Grant, a leading concussion specialist who is helping to change how concussions are treated.

Grant has seen hundreds of NHL players during the past six years, and doesn't subscribe to the belief that players should be relaxing while waiting to resume workouts.
...
"He does a lot of small, micromanipulation work that needs to be done, instead of putting a guy in a dark room and telling him to wait," Alberts said. "He's unbelievable.
...
"How do you get better? You be proactive."
Rather than "sitting in the dark" waiting to feel normal which has been the "traditional" neurological response.

The new CBA and star Sidney Crosby being out with concussion have changed things. Players have a number of resources at their disposal, can get second opinions, etc.

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04-21-2014, 01:52 PM
  #485
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So, media being rather quiet about the idea of Stamkos possibly having a concussion yet still playing in the playoffs-probably because "its the playoffs". I find that rather interesting it hasn't gotten much press. And I think this comes back to the whole idea of taking it out of the players hands and enforcing some form of mandatory "sit out time. Either that, or the current NHL lawsuit situation might get murkier because here are players playing who "DO" have more information, yet are continuing to play-which is going to hurt IMO their argument that NHL is holding things back.

Meanwhile the NHL, in its professed public "voice" that 'they are concerned about concussions', don't seem to have much in the way of voicing that concern with Stamkos, other than maybe "he said he's alright and the concussion test showed nothing" and leaving it at that.

Just find the timing rather interesting, because right now, to me anyway, the NHL really is looking like they're interested in public relations and nothing else.

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04-21-2014, 02:08 PM
  #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinalera View Post
Meanwhile the NHL, in its professed public "voice" that 'they are concerned about concussions', don't seem to have much in the way of voicing that concern with Stamkos, other than maybe "he said he's alright and the concussion test showed nothing" and leaving it at that.

Just find the timing rather interesting, because right now, to me anyway, the NHL really is looking like they're interested in public relations and nothing else.
In this inter-connected world, everything whether personal, business, or government, is about public relations and 'controlling' the message and 'protecting' their brand...


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04-21-2014, 02:13 PM
  #487
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The new CBA and star Sidney Crosby being out with concussion have changed things. Players have a number of resources at their disposal, can get second opinions, etc.
Indeed. From Chiropractic Neurologists. The established medical & scientific community refers to this sub-set of chiropractic practitioners as pseudo scientists, VooDoo Medicine & other less than flattering names, and pardon the pun, at depths well above their heads, training & knowledge. That no serious studies have ever been undertaken & papers written that back some of the claims being made. Straight or Traditional Chiropractors believe all illnesses & health issues stem from the spine, and that they dont believe that they need to use any diagnostic tools nor run the kinds of tests you'd normally be put through by a GP, in the hospital, a medical clinic or whatever. Over the years, Chiropractic's has morphed with specialization, Sports Chiropractics etc, provided tremendous aide & assistance to millions in alleviating pain, as therapists in recovery from sports injuries & so on & so forth.

However, when we get into the area of neurology & the brain, concussions, very tricky situation. Crosby went & saw Ted Carrick, a Neurological Chiropractor who claims he can treat neurological disorders including concussions of course with targeted manipulations of the head & body beyond the Straight Chiropractic methodologies that focus on the spine. Carricks treatments do indeed involve elaborate manipulations and routines, exercise regimens. Crosby for example placed into & then hooked up to a man sized floating gyroscope (not unlike Leonardo Da Vinci's Vitruvian Gyroscope). He'd be sometimes turned right upside down, spun while a bank of colored lights overhead & high pitched notes purportedly acted to stimulate the central cortex, ameliorating & removing the fugue like state of post concussion syndrome. Restoring the chemical imbalances to the brain. Stirred, but not shaken.

Very interesting, though Im not convinced gyroscopic treatments are anything more than a giant placebo, so impressed are the patients with so incredibly elaborate a machine that they just naturally feel better having gone for a ride in the thing. Temporary.... I guess the bottom line, I personally wouldnt look to alternative non-traditional & or non-medical practitioners if suffering from really any illness or injury however as traditional medical science, when it comes to the brain & this issue is still very much in the dark, I can understand why Sidney Crosby would turn to a leader in his field like Ted Carrick, or the example in Vancouver, though Id be very wary of any claims of success as its not backed by any body of scientifically verified & scrutinized research. There are no published studies establishing the scientific basis of Chiropractic Neurology.

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05-06-2014, 10:22 PM
  #488
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http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...sion_game.html

Philadelphia editorial bringing NHL/Bettman to task about "playoff" injury categorization and not-as-strict-rule-enforcement (perhaps leading to more head injuries).

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05-06-2014, 10:45 PM
  #489
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^^^ Wow. Reporter Mike Sielski certainly didnt hold back. Good article.

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05-07-2014, 08:22 AM
  #490
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...sion_game.html

Philadelphia editorial bringing NHL/Bettman to task about "playoff" injury categorization and not-as-strict-rule-enforcement (perhaps leading to more head injuries).
Good to see this being said. For the NHL says about helping the players and protecting them, there really isn't consistency here because 'its the playoffs', and all of a sudden its supposed to be different.

The NHL needs to take one side or the other: this is either a tough game that people are getting paid very well to play and its par for the course for concussions, or its a game where players need to be protected in every way possible-regular season or playoffs.

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05-07-2014, 02:24 PM
  #491
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http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...182331836.html

Wyshynski on how NHL concussion protocols fail, looking at the responsibility of the players, giving example from playoffs of player who said he had back pains to avoid concussion protocols and getting back out on the ice.

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05-07-2014, 03:25 PM
  #492
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...182331836.html

Wyshynski on how NHL concussion protocols fail, looking at the responsibility of the players, giving example from playoffs of player who said he had back pains to avoid concussion protocols and getting back out on the ice.
If this is the "norm" for players, then this is exactly why it needs to be taken out of the players hands whether they "play" or not. That's rather disturbing, yet unsurprising if indeed it's "that easy" to get out of concussion testing. If it means that a player having to stay "out" also means that not only the offending player on the other team goes out, but that team loses a player slot for the next game (they would have a bench one player shorter than the other team)-so that any "offending" player who thinks he' taking an mandatory sit in response to hurt player, " is actually hurting his team, so be it.

Or NHL simply goes back to "its a tough game" mentality and stops the optics of wanting to "care" for the players-except when an owner or a player decides it isn't in their best interest. At least they wouldn't appear as hypocrites then.

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05-08-2014, 05:46 AM
  #493
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The culture of "playing through pain" and "sucking it up" is definitely a part of the sport and until that changes there will be players who will conceal their concussion symptoms. They are highly competitive individuals and they will want to play, even if it means risking a long-term problem. It's stupid, but I am sure in the heat of the game, they are not thinking rationally. In hindsight they would probably think twice about going back into the game after a knock-out. That's why they shouldn't be able to jump back in after being knocked out without any testing and the medical staff should enforce it. The well-being and health of the athlete should always come first.

To change the above culture, it needs to start from the earliest level if it is going to make an impact, because any later that sort of thinking is already too ingrained to change. Along with this and far harsher penalties for causing these sort of injuries might finally change it for the better where retired players won't suffer from brain injury related depression and other ailments that will affect the majority of their life after their careers are done.

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05-08-2014, 10:11 AM
  #494
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To change the above culture, it needs to start from the earliest level if it is going to make an impact, because any later that sort of thinking is already too ingrained to change.
Yes that certainly is the problem and your quite right, has to start at a young age. Kids as you know are already quite fearless and when suited up with helmets, cages, anti-ballistic Swat Team body armor, a club, blades... well, figure your pretty much indestructible. In Football, you actually "lead with your head" and thats from Middle & High School on up. The stories & legends of players performing heroically while injured passed down from generation to generation, something youd aspire to yourself. And the stories are plentiful.... Game 7 of the 1952 Semi-Finals Maurice Richard takes a viscous 2 hander baseball swing to the face dropping like a sack of hammers... Wakes up on the Trainers Table with a face full of stitches, stumbles back down the tunnel to the bench blurry eyed, barely aware of where he is completely concussed and one of just many more by that time. Asks the guy next to him what the score is because he cant read the clock. Told score tied minutes to go before OT. Jumps over the boards & scores the winner. Never mind that next day he cant even remember the game from the night before. Ultimate Bad***. What kid didnt wanna be like that? Or Bobby Baun scoring the game 6 winner in OT on a frozen leg, his ankle shattered, Leafs going on to win Game 7 & the Stanley Cup.

You can go down through the generations, 70's, 80's, 90's & 00's, stories of guys playing through the pain & injuries, Hero's & Legends all. What kid doesnt want that? Its what dreams are made of. Morenz, Richard, Howe, Hull, Orr, Lafleur, Bossy, Gretzky, Lemieux. You name it, generational stars, lesser lights, story after story of heroism. Pay the price. Total sacrifice. It in the very DNA of the game. Instilled at a young age, expected at the elite amateur levels from Pee Wee to Midget. Play through the pain, keep your mouth shut. Attitudes always been you get your body, face & head fixed when you retire. Only way your getting off the ice is if they have to scrape you off of it with putty knives & squeegee's. By the time your playing Junior thats your approach. Who you are. Mr. Indestructible. Injured but can play or think you can, keep it zipped. Ive seen guys who when removing their equipment post game, completely wiped, take off their skates to find a pool of blood in one of them. Rather than say anything at all, furtively hide the evidence & quickly dres. Act like everythings just Hunky~Dory. Deal with whatever it is later, privately, away from the gaze of Trainers or Coaches. One time a guy with an actual compound fracture of his wrist, bone sticking out, totally unaware of it until after the game when he took off his jersey. How he didnt just pass out much less be unaware of it just incredible... so ya, that culture has to change but its not so easy at the elite levels. Gunna take a concerted effort, several generations.

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05-08-2014, 01:43 PM
  #495
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Yes that certainly is the problem and your quite right, has to start at a young age. Kids as you know are already quite fearless and when suited up with helmets, cages, anti-ballistic Swat Team body armor, a club, blades... well, figure your pretty much indestructible. In Football, you actually "lead with your head" and thats from Middle & High School on up. The stories & legends of players performing heroically while injured passed down from generation to generation, something youd aspire to yourself. And the stories are plentiful.... Game 7 of the 1952 Semi-Finals Maurice Richard takes a viscous 2 hander baseball swing to the face dropping like a sack of hammers... Wakes up on the Trainers Table with a face full of stitches, stumbles back down the tunnel to the bench blurry eyed, barely aware of where he is completely concussed and one of just many more by that time. Asks the guy next to him what the score is because he cant read the clock. Told score tied minutes to go before OT. Jumps over the boards & scores the winner. Never mind that next day he cant even remember the game from the night before. Ultimate Bad***. What kid didnt wanna be like that? Or Bobby Baun scoring the game 6 winner in OT on a frozen leg, his ankle shattered, Leafs going on to win Game 7 & the Stanley Cup.

You can go down through the generations, 70's, 80's, 90's & 00's, stories of guys playing through the pain & injuries, Hero's & Legends all. What kid doesnt want that? Its what dreams are made of. Morenz, Richard, Howe, Hull, Orr, Lafleur, Bossy, Gretzky, Lemieux. You name it, generational stars, lesser lights, story after story of heroism. Pay the price. Total sacrifice. It in the very DNA of the game. Instilled at a young age, expected at the elite amateur levels from Pee Wee to Midget. Play through the pain, keep your mouth shut. Attitudes always been you get your body, face & head fixed when you retire. Only way your getting off the ice is if they have to scrape you off of it with putty knives & squeegee's. By the time your playing Junior thats your approach. Who you are. Mr. Indestructible. Injured but can play or think you can, keep it zipped. Ive seen guys who when removing their equipment post game, completely wiped, take off their skates to find a pool of blood in one of them. Rather than say anything at all, furtively hide the evidence & quickly dres. Act like everythings just Hunky~Dory. Deal with whatever it is later, privately, away from the gaze of Trainers or Coaches. One time a guy with an actual compound fracture of his wrist, bone sticking out, totally unaware of it until after the game when he took off his jersey. How he didnt just pass out much less be unaware of it just incredible... so ya, that culture has to change but its not so easy at the elite levels. Gunna take a concerted effort, several generations.
I agree-there's a mindset here that's ingrained and been that way for a very long time. Football and Hockey are two sports which has had the culture. We're in a changing time, and yes it will be awhile before it takes shape, though we can already see it now as Hockey Canada continues to push for older and older ages before bodychecking/physical contact, and the slow but sure emphasis on less fighting. But I agree, it's going to take a long while for it to filter through the system.

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05-29-2014, 04:05 AM
  #496
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...41/?cmpid=rss1
Shoalts: League secrecy clouds concussion picture

Quote:
But no one is sure if concussions are down this season because the NHL refuses to release any statistics about concussions. Both the league and the NHL Players’ Association, which are working together on a long-term initiative to study the problem, called the NHL-NHLPA Concussion Working Group, declined to comment on the topic.
And Weise apparently did get a concussion in ECF from hit, but refused to leave game/wasn't properly diagnosed.


Until the culture allows for the "weakness" of concussions to be a good excuse for a player not playing, and the players own up to symptoms and not play, there will continue to be controversy.

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05-29-2014, 10:07 AM
  #497
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...41/?cmpid=rss1
Shoalts: League secrecy clouds concussion picture



And Weise apparently did get a concussion in ECF from hit, but refused to leave game/wasn't properly diagnosed.


Until the culture allows for the "weakness" of concussions to be a good excuse for a player not playing, and the players own up to symptoms and not play, there will continue to be controversy.
If this is the case, then for now the NHL IMO just needs to just stop talking about how they're taking concussions seriously-because they aren't really IMO. Don't get me wrong, if they want to go the "this is a tough game" route, then so be it. At least there's no double standard. But stop with the crocodile tears IMO.

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05-29-2014, 10:09 AM
  #498
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Another interesting point WRT Shoalts article (on why there are no numbers coming out from league/union on real injury name, i.e., concussions cannot be tracked as they're simply labeled "upper body" injury):

Quote:
There are two reasons the NHL and the NHLPA went silent on the topic aside from general comments that each group takes the issue seriously. The first reason is because the league is facing four lawsuits over concussions and more may be coming. Three groups of retired players filed class-action suits in U.S. courts that allege the league was negligent in protecting its players from head injuries. An insurance company, TIG Insurance Co., based in Manchester, N.H., which issued liability policies to the league from 1989-2001, is also suing the NHL. The company is seeking to limit its duty to defend the league in the ex-player lawsuits. TIG claims its duty was limited because the league may not have complied with the insurance policies.
The fact that the insurance company is suing the league. Hmmmm.

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05-29-2014, 10:18 AM
  #499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...41/?cmpid=rss1
Shoalts: League secrecy clouds concussion picture



And Weise apparently did get a concussion in ECF from hit, but refused to leave game/wasn't properly diagnosed.


Until the culture allows for the "weakness" of concussions to be a good excuse for a player not playing, and the players own up to symptoms and not play, there will continue to be controversy.
Would it really be that difficult for the Players Association to find out from the players on each team exactly who and how many players had concussions during the Season? It might be a bit of an inconvenient task to check around the League, rather than having the League provide the data up front, but certainly I'd think it could be done relatively quickly if the PA set its mind to do it.

Of course, players who don't own up to it, well then there's not much that can be held against the League with respect to that. That then is a problem that the PA itself needs to deal with, regardless whether the League chooses to help or not.


Last edited by MoreOrr: 05-29-2014 at 11:17 AM. Reason: added another sentence
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05-29-2014, 12:50 PM
  #500
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OT: Obama..Not Enough Information On Concussions

don't know if this belongs in the business thread..

Quote:
President Barack Obama called Thursday for more robust research into youth concussions, saying there remains deep uncertainty over both the scope of the troubling issue and the long-term impacts on young people.
Quote:
"We want our kids participating in sports," Obama said as he opened a daylong summit on concussions at the White House. "As parents though, we want to keep them safe and that means we have to have better information."
http://news.yahoo.com/obama-too-litt...153239985.html

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