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In the never ending saga of concussions (See post #598)

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Old
05-30-2014, 04:18 PM
  #476
LadyStanley
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http://www.montrealgazette.com/sport...157/story.html

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The NHL and the players’ association came up with a protocol when it comes to dealing with head injuries. It would be a positive step toward dealing with the head injuries if anyone took it seriously. But teams and players continue to circumvent the protocol by denying a player has suffered a concussion.
Hard to be taken "seriously" when the players (and teams) don't play by the rule book.



There has been at least one suggestion (ala NFL with neurologist at the stadium) of having independent doc make call on keeping player out of game due to possible concussion.

Perhaps it's time.

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06-03-2014, 05:24 PM
  #477
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The addition of padding does raise the issue of whether the league (players, refs, coaches, owners) are simply accepting the hits instead of saying that hits can go too far. Ideally, the padding should only be concerned about hitting the ice and flying pucks.

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06-03-2014, 05:52 PM
  #478
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The addition of padding does raise the issue of whether the league (players, refs, coaches, owners) are simply accepting the hits instead of saying that hits can go too far. Ideally, the padding should only be concerned about hitting the ice and flying pucks.
Well, if I understand your post correctly your addressing 2 issues here. The first being body armor in the form of shoulder & arm/elbow pads and the huge strides theyve made in their design & in the materials used to construct them. Hard capped bullet proof Kevlar & Polymers. RoboCop. Back in the day, leather capped soft shoulder pads. Some guys (like Bobby Orr) just had the caps alone sewn to their suspenders. Very lightweight, practically nothing... The second issue your addressing is when does a "check" become a "hit" and what happened to the etiquette, the correct way to check & how to absorb a check? You cant absorb a "hit". There was and is still supposed to be a "code" that all players are taught upon entry into the game from whatever age it was/is that they start playing.

"Finishing your check" used to mean youd check a guy who has possession of the puck by taking the body to him in order to knock him off balance just enough for you to gain possession of the puck, take it off him, or maybe ride him into the boards and hold it for a face~off. Youd alter course if within a second or two he'd passed it off to someone or lost control of it on his stick. You didnt carry through & nail him, staple him to the boards or whatever, leave your feet, "hit" the guy. You "checked" him and if you checked late you got nailed for Charging; 2 or 5 Minute Penalty. If egregious, Game Misconduct. If you checked a guy with your hands or stick above your elbows, Roughing. Penalty. If you hit a guy in the head with your shoulder or stick? Gross Misconduct. Your gone. Out of the game, Suspension.... of course before you got off the ice likely a Bench Clearing Brawl or at least a fight, someone on the transgressor to "teach them a lesson". That you couldnt do that. Totally unacceptable.

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06-06-2014, 10:00 AM
  #479
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https://sports.yahoo.com/news/nhl-ma...06728-nhl.html

Cotsonika: NHL makes progress on concussions, but needs to do more to protect players from themselves

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We’ve heard the horror stories about concussions. We know more than ever before about them, even if the science still has a long way to go to pin down their short- and long-term effects. Yet the players still want to play, especially in the playoffs – even when they are going through the horrors, even though they know the risk, at least on some level.

That’s why the NHL’s concussion protocol is so important, and that’s why commissioner Gary Bettman’s comments were so interesting Wednesday at his annual state-of-the-league news conference. When a player shows signs of a potential concussion, he is supposed to be taken to a quiet area to go through standardized concussion testing. He must pass to return to play. Bettman did not give details but said the league has disciplined teams for violating the protocol – hinting at fines – and is open to strengthening the protocol in the future.
It definitely would be interesting to learn of any fines that Bettman hinted at have helped. (If a player says it's his back and not his head, hard to fine the team in that regard.)

Perhaps it's time for an independent party to demand concussion time out?

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06-09-2014, 12:00 AM
  #480
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http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=454313

CP article

Quote:
According to data from STATS provided to The Associated Press, there were 53 concussions during the regular season, a sharp decline from the 78 reported during the league's last full season two years ago.

But even Bettman said there is only so much the league can do about a player hiding a head injury to stay on the ice.
...
Dr. Jeff Kutcher, an Ann Arbor, Michigan-based neurologist who works with NHL players believed to have concussions, wasn't sure the lower numbers indicated a dramatic change.
...
The NHL Players Association says it has taken steps to educate its players about the dangers of concussions, including bringing doctors to each team before the season for discussions.
Physical penalties are down per STATS over the past five seasons.


What's the old joke -- How many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb? One, but the light bulb has to want to change.

I guess the same can be said of NHL players and concussions.

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06-10-2014, 07:24 PM
  #481
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
And the majority of concussions are not from fisticuffs, but the physical aspect of the game, IIRC past surveys.

Especially with information coming out that the "subconcussion" hits players take "add up" to affect the brain, long term.
One big reason is hits are much more common than fighting but just look at the most recent Colton Or and Parros bout.

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06-10-2014, 07:38 PM
  #482
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I hate to weigh in on this because I have never played the game.
However, I think hits have increased because fans like them, and that led to the league counting them as a statistic.
I wonder if part of the solution would be to mandate soft pads. No more armor. You don't wear a shell to protect yourself, you wear padding. Then, protection cannot be used as weaponry.

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06-10-2014, 08:19 PM
  #483
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Originally Posted by MNNumbers View Post
I hate to weigh in on this because I have never played the game. However, I think hits have increased because fans like them, and that led to the league counting them as a statistic. I wonder if part of the solution would be to mandate soft pads. No more armor. You don't wear a shell to protect yourself, you wear padding. Then, protection cannot be used as weaponry.
I dont think its mandatory that someone's played the game to be able to form or have an opinion on the subject MNN, just as it isnt mandatory they have done so to enjoy watching it just as much as those who have played it at elite levels. While its true if you had played it at a high level youd pick up on a fair amount of the nuances that those who havent played it take some time to figure out but for something this fundamental its pretty obvious whats going on..... lack of respect for one another amongst the players themselves, reckless play & hits that stem from an absence of critical thought & unsportsmanlike conduct.

Players are bigger, stronger & faster than theyve ever been, rushed into the league, tool box half full and in the blink of an eye their careers are over in the majority of cases. 2.5-3yrs the average. Removing the Center Ice Red Line while speeding up the game also brought in further unintended consequences. More speed, no brake to slow the pace just enough to avoid head~on neck breaking concussive hits. They moved the goal lines & nets out, moving the Blue Lines forward as well, taking square footage away from the front of the net, the attack zone where the majority of checks are administered. More room behind the net to really gain greater speed for hits be they open ice or against the boards. They add the Trapezoid, Goalie can no longer play the puck properly insuring his Defencemen dont get nailed when chasing after pucks. Hits delivered late, no Charging or Unsportsmanlike calls made, and of course, hard cap body armor. Used to be called "checking". Strip the guy of the puck & gain possession yourself or enable a team mate to corral it. Now called "hitting". Puck irrelevant. Just take the guy out. Players micro-managed. System hockey from Tyke to the NHL.

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06-13-2014, 12:47 AM
  #484
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Just came across this article concerning blood test used to identify damage caused by concussion. Has this been here before?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0314093652.htm

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06-13-2014, 01:17 AM
  #485
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Originally Posted by Noldo View Post
Just came across this article concerning blood test used to identify damage caused by concussion. Has this been here before?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0314093652.htm

Thanks for the link. I hadn't seen it before. I'm also amazed by the lead researcher's name:

Quote:
In the study, the players who had a concussion were asked to provide repeated blood samples, directly after the concussion and during the ensuing days. The results were compared with the pre-season samples from two full teams.
This way, Professor Henrik Zetterberg and his colleagues could show that a special nerve cell protein, called tau, at elevated levels in the blood is a marker of concussion.
By measuring the tau levels in a regular blood test, the researchers could say how severe the concussion was just one hour after the injury, and with a high level of certainty could predict which players would have long-term symptoms and thereby needed to rest longer.
"In ice hockey and other contact sports, repeated concussions are common, where the brain has not finished healing after the first blow. This kind of injury is particularly dangerous, but there have not been any methods for monitoring how a concussion in an athlete heals," says Henrik Zetterberg.
Henrik Zetterberg is among the world's leading brain researchers and has conducted research on concussions in sports for many years and in numerous studies. According to Zetterberg, the new findings are not only relevant to ice hockey, but to all sports where there is a risk of head injuries.
So this is what Z does in the off-season.


It would be an incredible discovery if in fact a blood test can be developed that not only indicates a brain injury happened, but can be correlated to the degree of damage. Imagine the future for contact sports if the test is available at the teen and pre-professional levels.

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06-13-2014, 02:04 AM
  #486
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Originally Posted by Fugu
It would be an incredible discovery if in fact a blood test can be developed that not only indicates a brain injury happened, but can be correlated to the degree of damage. Imagine the future for contact sports if the test is available at the teen and pre-professional levels.
It would be quite revolutionary. Could you imagine the fight NHLPA would put against wide range concussion testing from blood samples (as those samples could be tested also for PEDs).

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06-13-2014, 12:46 PM
  #487
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http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.d...s+Headlines%29

And now, there's to be a movie.

Quote:
Famed actor and producer Will Smith will play the role of San Joaquin County's Chief Medical Examiner Bennet Omalu in a movie about the pathologist, who discovered a traumatic brain disease in football players.
...
A summary of the film, yet to be titled, says it is "A look at how American football players suffer from major head injuries and life-long debilitating problems as a result of repeated concussions and efforts by the National Football League to deny it."

So, it's gotten to be a big enough issue that Hollywood thinks they can make money from (fictionalizing) the history of events. Sad.

But after the Frontline story, there's enough interest, I guess.

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06-13-2014, 01:35 PM
  #488
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.d...s+Headlines%29

And now, there's to be a movie.




So, it's gotten to be a big enough issue that Hollywood thinks they can make money from (fictionalizing) the history of events. Sad.

But after the Frontline story, there's enough interest, I guess.
It's going to be interesting to see what sort of disclaimer-if any-they have to put up. Are they presenting this as a fictional movie "based on real events"? I know the disclaimer at the end of films "people, situations, places are work of fiction"-would that particular disclaimer apply in this case?

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06-13-2014, 01:44 PM
  #489
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Originally Posted by Noldo View Post
It would be quite revolutionary. Could you imagine the fight NHLPA would put against wide range concussion testing from blood samples (as those samples could be tested also for PEDs).

I think that could be limited. You can't force people to submit 'evidence' against themselves, or run tests for chemicals or conditions without disclosure and agreement.

I know this future isn't too far off, but there will be even more markers available, for genetic conditions, cancer, etc. You don't want that in the hands of people who will then decide on someone's future. Ethically speaking from the medical side, physicians (and thus the interpretation/diagnosis of test results) are supposed to protect a patient's medical privacy and put their care first.

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06-13-2014, 01:50 PM
  #490
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Ethically speaking from the medical side, physicians (and thus the interpretation/diagnosis of test results) are supposed to protect a patient's medical privacy and put their care first.
But you "sign your privacy away" just to have insurance.

And I'm guessing that players sign their privacy away WRT medical records to be treated by team docs/have their medical expenses covered.

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06-13-2014, 03:20 PM
  #491
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But you "sign your privacy away" just to have insurance.

And I'm guessing that players sign their privacy away WRT medical records to be treated by team docs/have their medical expenses covered.

No, I don't think it works that way.

If you file for insurance coverage, they have a right to your records-- insofar as needed to decide what to cover or not. In fact, this is a contentious issue, as exemplified by the "pre-existing condition" debate. They can no longer disqualify for coverage conditions that they once decided were pre-existing (carrying over from previous employers), plus this was getting into the slippery slope of saying a genetic defect, for example, was a pre-existing condition, or that it pre-disposed someone towards acquiring a disease (like some cancers).

So if the league were to mandate that any time a concussion was suspected, the appropriate protocol is to draw blood and test for the marker, then that would be the ONLY test that should be run. It's not carte blanche to do a search for anything and everything else. That was my point. The agreements might also stipulate that the blood would need to be discarded and not kept around for other sampling options.

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06-14-2014, 01:16 PM
  #492
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I was thinking more about periodic testing to identify patterns or changes. Of course additional uses may be contracted out, but if there is a database, the risk that it want to be used for new purposes is higher than if such database never exists in the first place.

Solution might be that the samples are discarded after testing, but that carries its own problems (for example, what if test later own proves to be partially faulty).

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07-11-2014, 12:14 PM
  #493
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http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/201...o-concussions/

3 Reasons Why FIFA Needs To Pay More Attention To Concussions

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There have been numerous injuries throughout the World Cup in Brazil, but a few stand out. With the constant coverage, camera angles, instant replay, and hi-def video – us fans at home get a close-up view of what is actually happening on the pitch.

To many-a-fan’s dismay, some players were noticeably ‘out of it’ and even collapsed after sustaining a head injury during play. While getting injured is something that can happen in any sport, certain protocols need to be followed to ensure player safety.
Not just in hockey (and NFL).

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07-11-2014, 02:00 PM
  #494
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http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/201...o-concussions/

3 Reasons Why FIFA Needs To Pay More Attention To Concussions



Not just in hockey (and NFL).
amongst youth leagues think that soccer has the highest relative risk of concussions.

for high school I was wrong its football, but for girls, soccer does top the list

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07-21-2014, 05:57 PM
  #495
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http://www.sacbee.com/2014/07/21/657...#mi_rss=Sports

California governor signs bill (into law) which "prohibits middle school and high school football teams from holding full-contact practices during the off-season and limits them to no more than two full-contact practices per week during the preseason and regular season."

California is the 20th state to do so.

Hopefully that will reduce the concussions. (But given that HS soccer has some of the highest rates of concussions, and especially for girls, this might just be the beginning of legislation to help protect more kids' heads.)

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07-25-2014, 02:59 PM
  #496
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mirtle 12:54pm via Plume for Android .@mooredom's Smashfest raised $140,000 last night. Benefits a couple great charities for cancer and concussion research.




Every little bit helps.


Edit:
Link to press release
http://www.nhlpa.com/news/smashfest-...concussions-an

Edit 2:
http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/do...shing-success/
THN story. WRT concussions, Dom has created the Steve Moore Foundation named for his brother to research concussions.


Last edited by LadyStanley: 07-26-2014 at 01:41 PM.
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08-21-2014, 06:21 PM
  #497
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http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/co...rement-letter/

Concussed Swedish hockey player writes heartbreaking retirement letter.

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08-26-2014, 02:10 AM
  #498
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http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/co...rement-letter/

Concussed Swedish hockey player writes heartbreaking retirement letter.
At this point I will be happy once fighting is permanently band. With all the medical knowledge we have today you would think the NHL would wisen up.

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08-28-2014, 10:12 AM
  #499
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http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...130606231.html

More on the "Look up line" (to go around rinks at the edge). With quotes from USA Today/Kevin Allen.

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08-28-2014, 02:27 PM
  #500
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i wonder if adult recreational ice hockey leagues will handle this? you can sign away almost everything, but if the ref or anyone at the rink doesn't force you off the ice if you have a concussion, they could be held liable i think. i had an concussion or 2 playing goalie (small ones). one of the games i got a concussion, my eyes were hurting and i had a headache after i got hit. i still played during the game (this was after the second goal i allowed). for the record, i didn't allow a goal after that goal.

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