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Old
09-01-2011, 10:43 AM
  #201
LadyStanley
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XMHomeIce NHL Home Ice
NHL Head Disciplinarian Brendan Shanahan joined Mike Ross & Mick Kern to talk about his new role going into the... fb.me/M83vVoOs

So, a bit more on Shanahan and his expanded role.



And regarding Belak, I've seen a few reports that his death was a suicide. So, that's one accidental OD, two suicides this summer? Guessing there will be more call to ramp up the mental (depression) side of the NHL/NHLPA player assistance program.

Recalling earlier this year when former Sharks prospect Tom Cavanagh, who never shared his mental agonies outside his family, committed suicide. It's one thing to have a program, it's a whole 'nother to change the (macho) culture of hockey and society's stigma so that guys are comfortable/willing to talk about it, much less get/accept help to overcome it.


Edit: TSN's McKenzie editorial.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=374920

Quote:
NHL and NHLPA executives did talk today in the wake of Belak's death. NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said the league is "concerned" and "troubled" by the third NHL death in the last four months. The league is expected to take a hard look at what more can be done to make sure players who need help know it's available to them and how to get it.


Last edited by LadyStanley: 09-01-2011 at 10:50 AM.
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09-01-2011, 12:25 PM
  #202
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So, that's one accidental OD, two suicides this summer?
And Probert wasn't exactly a long time ago, either.

It's very sad.

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09-01-2011, 01:00 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
XMHomeIce NHL Home Ice
NHL Head Disciplinarian Brendan Shanahan joined Mike Ross & Mick Kern to talk about his new role going into the... fb.me/M83vVoOs

So, a bit more on Shanahan and his expanded role.



And regarding Belak, I've seen a few reports that his death was a suicide. So, that's one accidental OD, two suicides this summer? Guessing there will be more call to ramp up the mental (depression) side of the NHL/NHLPA player assistance program.

Recalling earlier this year when former Sharks prospect Tom Cavanagh, who never shared his mental agonies outside his family, committed suicide. It's one thing to have a program, it's a whole 'nother to change the (macho) culture of hockey and society's stigma so that guys are comfortable/willing to talk about it, much less get/accept help to overcome it.


Edit: TSN's McKenzie editorial.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=374920
The mention of the "macho" type stuff, it seems like hockey is going to be nearing a deciding point soon if events keep unfolding-it's something to observe when things like mental wellness side of things, and also incorporating things like concussions and hitting in hockey(and I"m not trying to derail the thread, merely making an observation) the whole physical nature-be it hitting, be it fighting, be it the "tough it out" mentality and the possible stigma of a hockey player saying "my head isn't right, I don't feel right/depressed ect"-they all seem to be coming to the same point, and how much will these things change the game-and those who play it? I just wonder is part of it too the fact the media has so much viewing, and is 24/7-if there were players 25 years ago, if they've had the same issues-were they quiet because of lack of media? (I really don't know, how many former hockey players have gone through same, but without the media scrutiny were kind of passed by?) There are no easy answers.

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09-01-2011, 01:48 PM
  #204
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You may not like Savard or Crosby, but the fact is that when the NHL starts to lose players of that skill to head injuries, then the game of hockey just became less because they are not in it. Imagine if Gretzky had missed most of his career because he got concussed.

What's the solution? Well nothing is 100%, but the NHL could a couple take steps to "help" reduce the likelyhood of concussions. JMO....

1 -first and foremost they have to mandate soft shoulder pads and elbow pads back in the game. Sorry, but when the manufacturers claim that todays' bullet proof body armor is required to make the players ( including kids ) safer, they are full of it. Go back 20-30 years when everyone was wearing cloth protection, there were no more people getting specifically hurt because of that equipment then, than now. And there was just as much body contact. The cloth equipment was designed to protect "you" from injury, where todays equipment is designed ( not intentionally, but thats the result ) to inflict injury.

2 - Make sure the helmets are worn properly and award a minor penalty if not. So many players have the chin strap so loose they might as well not have it.

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09-01-2011, 08:15 PM
  #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
You may not like Savard or Crosby, but the fact is that when the NHL starts to lose players of that skill to head injuries, then the game of hockey just became less because they are not in it. Imagine if Gretzky had missed most of his career because he got concussed.

What's the solution? Well nothing is 100%, but the NHL could a couple take steps to "help" reduce the likelyhood of concussions. JMO....

1 -first and foremost they have to mandate soft shoulder pads and elbow pads back in the game. Sorry, but when the manufacturers claim that todays' bullet proof body armor is required to make the players ( including kids ) safer, they are full of it. Go back 20-30 years when everyone was wearing cloth protection, there were no more people getting specifically hurt because of that equipment then, than now. And there was just as much body contact. The cloth equipment was designed to protect "you" from injury, where todays equipment is designed ( not intentionally, but thats the result ) to inflict injury.
Completely agree with you on that.

1. Softer and smaller padding.

2. No touch icing.

3. Grandfather in visors.

4. Better diagnosis system for concussions. The quiet room thing is a first step, but I think it should be taken further. If there are concerns that a concussion, however mild, may have occurred, the player should not play the remainder of the game. If a concussion is diagnosed, then like in other sports (such as UFC), there should be a minimum amount of days where you cannot play hockey (perhaps 30 days or so).

5. Lengthier suspensions, heavier fines; fines targeted to players AND management. I think with Shanahan at the helm we can see some improvement in this area. Hopefully it won't be the completely random "ask the 8-ball" kind of justice that Colin Campbell was using.

I think everyone would agree that these five changes would be beneficial for the league and its players.



Now for two things that probably will not happen but I think should be considered or at least discussed:

6. Removing the lateral / blindside wording from Rule 48 is a step in the right direction. Perhaps, like every other hockey league, even incidental (i.e. not targeted) hits to the head should be punishable. Perhaps... I don't know. It's a tough call to make IMO.

7. Giving heavier penalties for fighting. Instead of a 5-minute major, it should be a 10-minute game misconduct. If the fight occurs with less than 10 minutes remaining in the game, then the game misconduct is carried over to the next game (so the player is essentially suspended for the next game). That might be more of an optimal sweet spot wherein fights can still occur to some extent, but where the number of fights would be reduced because of the heavier consequences. If two players want to fight, they'll think twice and make sure that it is some sort of pivotal point in the game and that it will really make a difference of some kind / send a message. It won't be those... let's fight 2 minutes into the game for no real purpose... kind of thing.


I have my own biases of course. I love those open-ice Scott Stevens kind of hits that have been legal - where there is no particular head hunting or lateral/blindside kind of thing going on. But if it comes to it, then I'm willing to accept that Rule 48 may have to be expanded to include incidental hits to the head. On the other hand, while I am entertained by fights to some extent, I think it is a pretty pointless part of the game. I would not miss it nearly as much as the open-ice Scott Stevens kind of hits.

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09-01-2011, 08:36 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by saffronleaf View Post
Completely agree with you on that.

1. Softer and smaller padding.

2. No touch icing.

3. Grandfather in visors.

4. Better diagnosis system for concussions. The quiet room thing is a first step, but I think it should be taken further. If there are concerns that a concussion, however mild, may have occurred, the player should not play the remainder of the game. If a concussion is diagnosed, then like in other sports (such as UFC), there should be a minimum amount of days where you cannot play hockey (perhaps 30 days or so).

5. Lengthier suspensions, heavier fines; fines targeted to players AND management. I think with Shanahan at the helm we can see some improvement in this area. Hopefully it won't be the completely random "ask the 8-ball" kind of justice that Colin Campbell was using.

I think everyone would agree that these five changes would be beneficial for the league and its players.



Now for two things that probably will not happen but I think should be considered or at least discussed:

6. Removing the lateral / blindside wording from Rule 48 is a step in the right direction. Perhaps, like every other hockey league, even incidental (i.e. not targeted) hits to the head should be punishable. Perhaps... I don't know. It's a tough call to make IMO.

7. Giving heavier penalties for fighting. Instead of a 5-minute major, it should be a 10-minute game misconduct. If the fight occurs with less than 10 minutes remaining in the game, then the game misconduct is carried over to the next game (so the player is essentially suspended for the next game). That might be more of an optimal sweet spot wherein fights can still occur to some extent, but where the number of fights would be reduced because of the heavier consequences. If two players want to fight, they'll think twice and make sure that it is some sort of pivotal point in the game and that it will really make a difference of some kind / send a message. It won't be those... let's fight 2 minutes into the game for no real purpose... kind of thing.


I have my own biases of course. I love those open-ice Scott Stevens kind of hits that have been legal - where there is no particular head hunting or lateral/blindside kind of thing going on. But if it comes to it, then I'm willing to accept that Rule 48 may have to be expanded to include incidental hits to the head. On the other hand, while I am entertained by fights to some extent, I think it is a pretty pointless part of the game. I would not miss it nearly as much as the open-ice Scott Stevens kind of hits.
You make some solid points and I think there should definitely be thoughts in these directions to explore what can be done.

There is always going to be the segment of fans that would suggest that to implement these would eventually to hitting be taken out of the game. And I'm not saying one side or the other, but I think if some of these steps are taken, and they are taken in a very firm way-then hitting will be removed from the game. How would this affect fan bases-how many fans would head out to NHL games to watch essentially non-contact hockey-or maybe that's the way it will evolve eventually anyway. I know fans on both sides of the fence-I know ones that already think the NHL is being "wussified" and a couple do feel that in 15-20 years NHL may become a low/non hitting league with fighting abolished, and they hate that idea. I also have others who are quite okay with "pond hockey" type games where there's no hitting and think fighting is really something that should be gone the way of helmetless and maskless goalies.

How the NHL takes both these sides in consideration, as well as the safety of the players will certainly be something to keep an eye on.

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09-01-2011, 08:52 PM
  #207
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7. Giving heavier penalties for fighting.
If we're going to be serious about head shots, fighting has to be much more seriously punished. Dropy your gloves, and you're gone for the rest of that game and auto suspension for the next.

If for some goofy reason the ref doesn't call a fighting penalty during the game, then ref gets suspended, and the disciplinary folks hand down the player suspension "after hours".

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09-01-2011, 11:22 PM
  #208
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You make some solid points and I think there should definitely be thoughts in these directions to explore what can be done.

There is always going to be the segment of fans that would suggest that to implement these would eventually to hitting be taken out of the game. And I'm not saying one side or the other, but I think if some of these steps are taken, and they are taken in a very firm way-then hitting will be removed from the game. How would this affect fan bases-how many fans would head out to NHL games to watch essentially non-contact hockey-or maybe that's the way it will evolve eventually anyway. I know fans on both sides of the fence-I know ones that already think the NHL is being "wussified" and a couple do feel that in 15-20 years NHL may become a low/non hitting league with fighting abolished, and they hate that idea. I also have others who are quite okay with "pond hockey" type games where there's no hitting and think fighting is really something that should be gone the way of helmetless and maskless goalies.

How the NHL takes both these sides in consideration, as well as the safety of the players will certainly be something to keep an eye on.

You're right... it's a tricky balance because hockey is naturally a contact sport. But I wonder exactly which one of the things I mentioned make you feel as though it would remove hitting from the league entirely.

The only one that I think would cut down on hitting is if, like every other hockey league in the world, Rule 48 is expanded to include incidental contact to the head. That would be controversial and I don't know if I'd advocate for it right away.

But as it is, Rule 48 covers quite a bit regarding hits to the head. You can still check using your shoulder or hip and against other players' bodies - which is essentially what the art of checking entails. The current form of Rule 48, if my interpretation is correct, also allows for clean open-ice checks (think Scott Stevens) that do not intentionally target the head.

Things like modifying padding, no touch icing, concussion diagnostics, heavier suspensions & fines etc. do not really take away from the checking portion of the game.

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09-01-2011, 11:42 PM
  #209
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If we're going to be serious about head shots, fighting has to be much more seriously punished. Dropy your gloves, and you're gone for the rest of that game and auto suspension for the next.

If for some goofy reason the ref doesn't call a fighting penalty during the game, then ref gets suspended, and the disciplinary folks hand down the player suspension "after hours".
I agree with you... but I think more realistically the league should incrementally increase penalties for fighting over a certain period of time. Perhaps starting with what I had in mind, with the 10-minute game misconduct and what not.

I'm only saying this because the league will undoubtedly face resistance from certain purists and traditionalists. So doing what you are saying, while I'm in agreement, would be very difficult in reality.

To me it's similar to grandfathering in visors as opposed to mandating them immediately. I think players should wear visors, but I also think that mandating it for all players right away will be difficult and there will be stiff resistance from the NHLPA.


Of course, the league could just dig their heels in and take a stand - but again, if the NHLPA does the same, we could end up with possibly nothing being done at all.

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09-02-2011, 12:01 AM
  #210
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http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/stor...l.html?cmp=rss

Researchers announce they are studying the brain of Boogaard (but cannot release their findings without family's permission).

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09-05-2011, 08:08 PM
  #211
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http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...medium=twitter

Lambert: maybe NHL owners aren't serious about concussion?

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09-06-2011, 09:36 AM
  #212
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ESPN_Burnside Scott Burnside
Sidney Crosby to make first public comments since concussion Wed. in Pittsburgh. Will then fly to New York for national media event there.


So, we'll finally have a chance to hear from Sid directly.

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09-06-2011, 10:27 AM
  #213
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http://www.xmhomeice.com/onair_audio...%20Proteau.mp3

(Audio) Adam Proteau talks about fighting in the NHL and the impact of concussions. "We'll just set up a committee to investigate".

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09-07-2011, 02:38 PM
  #214
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http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=375308
Crobsy news conference (highlights).


I haven't found a link, but heard part of it on Sirius/XM NHL Home Ice. Crosby indicated that removing headshots from the game should not change the game and should result in fewer concussions.

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09-08-2011, 01:47 AM
  #215
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Only saw a little replay of the Crosby thing this evening. Maybe it's just me, he still doesn't look right, seems to have that nevr-focusing look going on.

Hope the guy is ok, or gets ok soon.

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09-08-2011, 02:34 AM
  #216
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Maybe it's just me, he still doesn't look right, seems to have that never-focusing look going on..
I think he's done Buddy. After what now, 9 months?. He's not even capable of Level 1 on the circuit?. Its over. Time to accept the inevitable. The big question is Why?. Why Crosby, Lindros et al?... Whats goin on?.

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09-08-2011, 10:09 AM
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Re: Crosby - doctors are hopeful of full recovery. There's just no time table. (Paraphrasing doc: I have no earthly way of knowing if he'll be ready for start of season.)



http://blogs.windsorstar.com/2011/09...t-concussions/

Keith Primeau teams up to create "stopconcussions.com" foundation.

Quote:
Multiple concussions ended the NHL career of former Detroit Red Wings centre Keith Primeau, and now he’s determined to do what he can to ensure others in sports at all levels don’t suffer the same fate that’s befallen him. Primeau and Kerry Goulet have combined to form stopconcussions.com. Launched in May, the goal of the organization is to raise awareness of concussions and the effects the injury has on its victims.
Primeau feels the timing for such action is long overdue within the sporting community. “With the . . . announcement of (Pittsburgh Penguins centre) Sidney Crosby and his personal situation with concussions, Marc Savard’s possible retirement, and with the current debate over fighting in the NHL, and the recent loss of three of the league’s young and dynamic individuals (Derek Boogaard, Wade Belak, Rick Rypien) we should focus now more than ever on developing a concrete plan to prevent and manage concussions,” Primeau said in a statement.

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09-08-2011, 03:04 PM
  #218
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Widen the rinks. Go to European specs and there will be far less hits up against the boards and far fewer concussions.

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09-08-2011, 04:23 PM
  #219
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Real_ESPNLeBrun Pierre LeBrun



Head shot debate continues, es.pn/qLF7mY

Crosby's call to ban headshots gets some support.

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09-09-2011, 11:33 PM
  #220
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http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/New...slam!%20hockey

16 year old player "retiring" from hockey after six concussions in 3 years.

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09-09-2011, 11:57 PM
  #221
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Which league was it thats decided outlaw hard plastic shoulder & elbow pads this season?. Anyone know?. Saw a brief blurb somewhere. Maybe NCAA or one of the CHL leagues?. Anyway, apparently they've all gotta wear soft give equipment. I guess its a start. I know what Id prescribe but I wont bore ya'll with my Neanderthal rantings about face masks, equipment in general, coaching & the idiotic instigator rule.

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09-10-2011, 10:46 AM
  #222
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http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news?slu...d_shots_090911

Shane Doan making the case against zero tolerance for headshots.

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09-10-2011, 11:09 PM
  #223
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http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news?slu...d_shots_090911

Shane Doan making the case against zero tolerance for headshots.
He's not just talk, either. Remember his hit on Dan Sexton? I'm glad they mentioned that in the article.

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09-11-2011, 12:06 AM
  #224
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I watched Slap Shot (again) the other night. The difference between what those guys wore and current equipment is stunning. I don't think King Arthur's jousters wore as much armor as modern players.

Sacrificing your body used to mean as much about giving hits as taking hits. I really believe the hard padding has to go...

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09-11-2011, 12:10 AM
  #225
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That Doan hit on Saxton is available on YouTube. It's dirty as hell. If it were my decision to make, any hit that late and that dangerous is an automatic ten game suspension, for a first offense.

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