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Waiver period begins Saturday(9/25)

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Old
09-26-2010, 01:45 AM
  #151
eklunds source
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thespeckledkiwi View Post
Tell me this; if Redden was making 2-4 million would he still be on the roster?
If Redden was making 2-4 million, the Rangers might have based their offseason plans around keeping him, and the changes to the team would have been different. Impossible to say.

If Redden was signed for 2m, maybe they don't sign Frolov and go after Kovy harder.
If Redden was signed for 3m, maybe they spend 2m to pick up Asham instead of Boogaard (sp?).

etc

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09-26-2010, 05:25 PM
  #152
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Tampa Bay puts a whole schwack of players on waivers today (Presumably with the purpose of assigning them to the AHL)

Mike Angelidis
Mitch Fritz
Blair Jones
Juraj Simek
Paul Szczechura
Vladimir Mihalik

I'd be surprised if any of them were claimed. Maybe Mihalik, purely for a team looking for size on the back-end, but probably no one.

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Old
09-26-2010, 05:26 PM
  #153
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Here's a question that I should know but don't.

Is there any limit on the amount a team can give a player on the minor league end of a 2 way deal?

Seems like a good way to biuld depth if there is no limit, offer 3 or 4 fringe 4th line types two way deals, but rather 500k/75k like I see a lot you offer, 500k/400k or something like that.

Any reason (salary cap? other?) that a team willing to spend the money couldn't do that?

Thanks

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Old
09-26-2010, 07:13 PM
  #154
kdb209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FROMSHORETOCHARA View Post
Here's a question that I should know but don't.

Is there any limit on the amount a team can give a player on the minor league end of a 2 way deal?

Seems like a good way to biuld depth if there is no limit, offer 3 or 4 fringe 4th line types two way deals, but rather 500k/75k like I see a lot you offer, 500k/400k or something like that.

Any reason (salary cap? other?) that a team willing to spend the money couldn't do that?

Thanks
No, there is no limit - but if the player's AHL salary is >$105K than he would be subject to Re-Entry Waivers if recalled.

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Old
09-26-2010, 07:33 PM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booba View Post
Montréal lost Stephane Robidas (Atlanta) and Francis Bouillon (Nashville) in the 2002 waiverdraft.

Bouillon was waived by Nashville and returned with the Habs later during the season while Robidas was traded to Dallas, a few hours after being claimed by Atlanta.



I'm to lazy to find the rules, but IIRC teams could only protect about 15 players (It depends whether they decided to protect one or two goaltender.)
A team could protect 18 skaters and 2 goalies for the Waiver Draft - players who were still Waiver Exempt (based on age at signing first SPC, # of years since signing, and # of NHL games played) were also exempt from the Waiver Draft and did not need to be protected.

The protect-a-different-number-of-payers-based-on-how-many-goalies-you-protected rule was an expansion draft rule - not a Waiver Draft one.

More than you ever cared to know about the defunct Waiver Draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old (1995) CBA Article 13
WAIVER DRAFT

13.22. The Waiver Draft will be conducted each year within the seven (7) days, but not less than three
(3) days, prior to the opening of the regular season, by telephone conference call at a date and time as
determined by the Commissioner or in accordance with the critical date calendar agreed to by the NHL
and NHLPA. The NHLPA shall participate as an observer in the Waiver Draft.

13.23. Protected lists of eighteen (18) skaters and two (2) goalkeepers are to be submitted to Central
Registry preceding the conduct of the draft, at a date and time as determined by the Commissioner.

13.24. Exemptions: Exempt from claim are:
(a) All players and goalkeepers who, in the opinion of the Commissioner, are on bona fide
military service for their country at the time of the Waiver Draft.

(b) A player on the Free Agent List who signs a contract with a team outside the NHL may
be exempted from claim in the Waiver Draft at the election of the Club. If such player, having been so
exempted, returns to play during the season, the Club will be required to place him, or some other
player on the Protected List at the time of the last Waiver Draft, on waivers.

(c) All players who qualify as set forth in Article 13.4 above.
13.25. All other players on Reserve Lists (including players on Free Agent List) are offered on
waivers with Clubs having right to claim based upon order of the last Entry Draft, without regard to the
results of the Lottery and trades. Non-playoff Clubs shall claim for one round exclusively. In the
second round and thereafter all Clubs may claim. Claim of a player from the Free Agent List transfers
to the claiming Club whatever rights to equalization compensation were held by the Club from which the
draft claim was made. No Club may claim a player from the Reserve List of a Club in its own division
in the first round. "Playoff Club" and "non-playoff Club" as used in this Section relates to whether a
Club participated in the immediately preceding playoffs.

13.26. When a Club claims a player or goalkeeper under this drafting procedure, that Club shall
immediately place the claimed player on its Protected List and shall announce the name of a player, or,
in case a goalkeeper is claimed, a goalkeeper, whose name shall be removed from its Protected List,
thereby reducing said list to eighteen (18) skaters and two (2) goalkeepers.

[Note: See Section 13.21 re effect on Protected List of Free Agents signed after Waiver Draft,
and players losing their military service exempt status after Waiver Draft.]

13.27.
(a) No Club shall lose more than three (3) players through draft claim made by another
Club(s), unless it chooses to so offer its players, except as provided in subparagraph (b) of his Article,
provided that, in any year in which there is an Expansion Draft involving one or two new Clubs, then the
above described Waiver Draft loss limits shall not be applicable and instead Clubs will have a loss limit
in the next Waiver Draft of two players or one player, respectively, per Club. In addition, any Club that
loses a goalie in any Expansion Draft may not, unless it so elects, lose a goalie in either the next Waiver
Draft or the following year's Waiver Draft. "Draft claim" for this purpose does not include a player
transferred as a result of the option described in subsection 13.29 hereof.

(b) A Club's three draft claim loss limit shall be increased by the number of draft claims it
makes against other Clubs.
13.28. Goalkeepers: No Club shall lose more than one (1) goalkeeper which loss shall be included in
the total of three (3) in subsection 13.27 above, unless the Club chooses to so offer additional
goalkeeper(s), provided that, in any year in which there is an Expansion Draft involving one or two new
Clubs, then the above described Waiver Draft loss limits shall not be applicable and instead Clubs will
have a loss limit in the next Waiver Draft of two players or one player, respectively, per Club. In
addition, any Club that loses a goalie in any Expansion Draft may not, unless it so elects, lose a goalie in
either the next Waiver Draft or the following year's Waiver Draft.

13.29. The Club from which the draft claim was made shall have the option, exercisable immediately,
of accepting the cash payment as outlined in subsection 13.14, or requesting that the player or
goalkeeper removed by the claiming Club be transferred immediately to its Reserve List and, if it so
desires, to its Protected List. If the Club elects to add such a player or goalkeeper to its Protected List,
it must simultaneously drop a player from said list. If the player or goalkeeper is merely transferred to
the Club's Reserve List, but not placed on its Protected List, he shall remain available for regular draft
claim until so claimed by any Club, including the Club exercising this right to transfer, in proper
sequence, except that he shall not be available to be claimed by any playoff Club until all non-playoff
Clubs have had an opportunity to claim him. The foregoing option shall not be affected by the number
of draft claims which have been made against the claiming Club.

13.30. Further, any Club, at its option, may at the time of filing its Protected List set a waiver price
less than required hereunder for any player who is eligible for claim.

13.31.
(a) When a claim is made, it cannot be withdrawn and the player becomes the property of
the claiming Club.

(b) A Standard Assignment giving effect to each claim made shall be completed and filed
with the Commissioner within ten days of the making of the claim and shall be accompanied by the
payment for the claimed player.
13.32. When the selection (draft) process has been completed under this Article the players and
goalkeepers then on the Protected List of each Member Club shall be specially recorded and
shall constitute its Protected List until the next ensuing draft proceedings unless changed in
conformity with the provisions of this Article

13.33.
(a) Any player on the Reserve List of a Club who is available for Draft Claim in the Waiver
Draft and who is not claimed, shall, at the completion of the Waiver Draft, be considered to have been
offered on waivers and that no claim has been made.
For this purpose, "claimed" means as a Draft Claim, not transferred solely as a result of
the option described in Article 13.29. "Available for Draft Claim" as used herein means available for
draft claim at the time every Club passes in the final round of the draft.

(b) If any Club having successfully claimed the services of a player under the provisions of
this Article thereafter disposes of such player on waivers, that Club shall not be permitted to make any
further claim to the services of that player until the next Waiver Draft is conducted, and until that date it
shall be deemed to have waived on his services for the purpose to permitting the loaning of such player.
13.34. A Club acquiring the services of a player under this Article shall have three months thereafter in
which to reduce its Reserve List to conform to the League Article.

13.35. The terms of a player's contract on file with Central Registry at the time of the filing of the
Protected List for the Waiver Draft shall define the obligations to be assumed by a claiming Club, and
any different terms which have been agreed to by the original Club prior to the claim shall remain the
responsibility of the original Club.

13.36. A player traded by a Club within the four weeks prior to the Waiver Draft may not be
reacquired by such Club within the forthcoming season.

13.37
(a) For players and goalkeepers acquired by waivers by original Club (the Club having lost
the player in the Waiver Draft) as provided in subsection 13.14, the waiver price shall be reduced by
one-half.

(b) The currency for the claiming price shall be determined by the location of the Club from
which the player was claimed.

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Old
09-26-2010, 10:11 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxostoma Rufum View Post
GMs are nuts if they don't snag at least one of the two Atlanta goaltenders (MacIntyre and Mannino). They're doing great in the AHL while Pavelec is spinning his gears in the NHL. Either of them could be a solid NHL backup or reliable emergency call up. ATL was foolish to bring them to camp since they had no intention of playing them in pre-season games because Pavelec is being given a free ride.
Plus Drew MacIntyre has a cool theme song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c_QlGODXf8

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Old
09-26-2010, 11:48 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thespeckledkiwi View Post
Tell me this; if Redden was making 2-4 million would he still be on the roster?
I'd like to know the answer to that as well. If Redden's contract was voided (and I realize that's not what's happening with the waivers, but for the sake of argument), what would be a fair dollar number for what Redden brings at this point in his career?

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Old
09-27-2010, 12:36 AM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
If Redden was making 2-4 million, the Rangers might have based their offseason plans around keeping him, and the changes to the team would have been different. Impossible to say.

If Redden was signed for 2m, maybe they don't sign Frolov and go after Kovy harder.
If Redden was signed for 3m, maybe they spend 2m to pick up Asham instead of Boogaard (sp?).

etc
Exactly my point on why burying a player in the minors shakes up the entire off season.

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Old
09-27-2010, 12:43 AM
  #159
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Jeff Finger is still a Maple Leaf

This... disturbs me.

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Old
09-27-2010, 02:27 AM
  #160
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Well remember this is just the first round of players getting waived... there will still be many others to come over the next 10 days or so before the regular season starts as teams continue to trim their rosters to the 23 max limit... so it's still a little early to worry that albatross contract XXXXX from your fave team is STILL clogging up the roster.

This first series of players being waived are mostly the minor leaguers and the most obvious one and most of the more interesting surprises are likely still to come. There should be at least a few decent quality vets and a few decent borderline AHL/NHL prospects that will be waived before the season starts on October 7th.

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Old
09-27-2010, 02:31 AM
  #161
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In regards to cap hits; does Redden count as a cap hit next year in the summer?

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Old
09-27-2010, 06:08 AM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thespeckledkiwi View Post
In regards to cap hits; does Redden count as a cap hit next year in the summer?
Yes, so it will be a problem if they want to be over the cap during the summer. However, they can just waive him again next camp if he's still around.

Same problem for the Hawks with Huet.

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Old
09-27-2010, 06:44 AM
  #163
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for those who think finger will be waived, guess again, burke stated he will not waive finger and give him every chance to make the team, and it is very likely that with kadri heading to the AHL we will be fine cap wise.

Aside from that it seems like the other possibility is that we maybe looking for a center via waivers.

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09-27-2010, 07:36 AM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thespeckledkiwi View Post
Tell me this; if Redden was making 2-4 million would he still be on the roster?
I don't believe he would be.

No.

He's not a competent defenceman.

He gets beat on the outside all the time, his positioning (which was a strength at one point) is no longer a strength. He's not physical in front of the net. He doesn't create any offence at even strength or on the PP.

The Rangers organizational strength right now is defence and if you can get a kid to come in and do all that Redden does and more of what Redden doesn't do, then that kid gets the spot.

Old players get older, young players get better. A great hockey mind once said that.

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Old
09-27-2010, 11:21 AM
  #165
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Not only in the case of Redden but in general I would really apreciate that if you waive a player whose cap hit is higher than a certain number (e.g. 3.5 millions), you are still stuck with the cap hit.


IMO it is a joke that some rich organisations can drastically overpay players and then don't have to stand up for it.

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Old
09-27-2010, 11:27 AM
  #166
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the Flyers made some cuts today, but I think Greg Moore is the only one that's subject to waivers

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09-27-2010, 11:32 AM
  #167
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No one was claimed today.

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09-27-2010, 11:33 AM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FROMSHORETOCHARA View Post
Here's a question that I should know but don't.

Is there any limit on the amount a team can give a player on the minor league end of a 2 way deal?

Seems like a good way to biuld depth if there is no limit, offer 3 or 4 fringe 4th line types two way deals, but rather 500k/75k like I see a lot you offer, 500k/400k or something like that.

Any reason (salary cap? other?) that a team willing to spend the money couldn't do that?

Thanks
i thought i remember reading before that the max AHL salary is around $450,000? That year that Boucher signed to play for the Phantoms a few years ago he was earning the AHL max, and it was around that

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09-27-2010, 11:36 AM
  #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERC91 View Post
Not only in the case of Redden but in general I would really apreciate that if you waive a player whose cap hit is higher than a certain number (e.g. 3.5 millions), you are still stuck with the cap hit.


IMO it is a joke that some rich organisations can drastically overpay players and then don't have to stand up for it.
nah, thats dumb. It's a capped league, so there has to be a way out if a player stops performing at the level he should be performing at. Either that, or get rid of guaranteed contracts

you're basically trying to punish teams that have money....but hey, we all know this league is ran by the small market teams now adays, thanks Bettman!

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09-27-2010, 11:47 AM
  #170
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Montoya, Jessiman, and "nine million others" waived today per Bobby Mac

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09-27-2010, 11:48 AM
  #171
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Minnesota put some players on waivers today (per Russo's twitter)

Robbie Earl
Warren Peters
Petr Kalus
Jon DiSalvatore

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09-27-2010, 11:55 AM
  #172
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Mirtle says there are tons of players on waivers today, but no one really notable.

Oilers waive Brad Moran and Gregory Stewart.

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09-27-2010, 12:03 PM
  #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
nah, thats dumb. It's a capped league, so there has to be a way out if a player stops performing at the level he should be performing at. Either that, or get rid of guaranteed contracts

you're basically trying to punish teams that have money....but hey, we all know this league is ran by the small market teams now adays, thanks Bettman!
That's exactely the point. The of the main thoughts of a salary cap is to increase the equality of opportunity between the teams.

And that point is circumvented by actions like that.

If you sign a player for a too high cap hit respectively a too high contract it's also at least partly your fault, so you should have to stand up for it.

Btw: My team also would have enough money if needed, so it's not a jealousy thing.

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09-27-2010, 12:04 PM
  #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caley View Post
Mirtle says there are tons of players on waivers today, but no one really notable.

Oilers waive Brad Moran and Gregory Stewart.
Don't think that anybody will claim them.

I also really hope so. They actually played quite well in their pre-season games and would make a really good addition to OKC.

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Old
09-27-2010, 12:07 PM
  #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERC91 View Post
That's exactely the point. The of the main thoughts of a salary cap is to increase the equality of opportunity between the teams.

And that point is circumvented by actions like that.

If you sign a player for a too high cap hit respectively a too high contract it's also at least partly your fault, so you should have to stand up for it.

Btw: My team also would have enough money if needed, so it's not a jealousy thing.
Not it isn't. A cap system that has this weak a revenue sharing component cannot be looked from a "its here for equality" perspective. It's here to control costs. The parity that results is a side effect, and is still somewhat limited by which teams are willing to spend at levels perhaps beyond their means.

On the other hand there is an absolute limit to the amount a team can have committed to its players (the offseason cap can't be worked around the way the regular one can). That's the cost certainty the ownership wanted.

As for having to stand up for it, that's usually where the money itself comes into play. Even if they can afford it it can't be fun for teams to pay players not to play for them. Cap space isn't everything.

Add to that that these deals were signed knowing that this was 100% an option. You can't change the rules in the middle of the game. If you get rid of this type of exception/accommodation/whatever you want to call it, you'll see much more conservative contracts across the board (not saying I'm for or against that, necessarily, but its a big thing to consider). But you can't fault someone for taking advantage of an option they had prepared for at the time of the signing.

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