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Old
09-26-2010, 12:10 AM
  #101
Herby
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Hey if Westgarth can skate and not be a total liability, fine play him in potentially "tough games"

My problem is playing him against teams that don't play a goon, it was absolutely ridiculous to see Ivanans in the lineup against Detroit last year (well it was ridiculous seeing him period)

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09-26-2010, 12:44 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by adevandry View Post
How many penalties did Clune draw last season?
Wait, you're going to Champion the Zeiler bandwagon based on ONE pre-season game. Zeiler is a human pinball, best known for smashing himself numerous times into the boards, and boarding Adam Foote. Oh yeah, imitating A PUNCHING BAG when a fight comes his way.

Clune has better skills, and a far harder edge. He's tougher all the way around. And while both are pests, my vote (not that I get one that counts) goes to Clune.

P.S. yes Clifford is tougher and badder than Clune, he's young and needs another year of seasoning.

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09-26-2010, 01:39 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
Wait, you're going to Champion the Zeiler bandwagon based on ONE pre-season game. Zeiler is a human pinball, best known for smashing himself numerous times into the boards, and boarding Adam Foote. Oh yeah, imitating A PUNCHING BAG when a fight comes his way.

Clune has better skills, and a far harder edge. He's tougher all the way around. And while both are pests, my vote (not that I get one that counts) goes to Clune.

P.S. yes Clifford is tougher and badder than Clune, he's young and needs another year of seasoning.
On the contrary, I saw little out of Clune last season. He rarely ever drew penalties -- and therefore wasn't doing his pest job well, IMHO.

I'm not championing Zeiler at all. I really don't care if Clune or Zeiler make the team. I'm just making an observation that most seem to have Clune penciled in already and I'm wondering why.

You mentioned that Zeiler is a human punching bag. I think he turtles more than anything. Regardless, do you really WANT to see Clune or Zeiler fighting?

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Old
09-26-2010, 02:50 PM
  #104
Johnny Utah
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The Wings are widely known as the softest team, but honestly if the Kings sit Westgarth and Clune and the departure of OD, Ivananas, and the injury to Greene we are softer than the Wings.

Cleary, Bertuzzi, Ericsson, Janik, Maltby, Kronwall versus Brown, Simmonds and Mitchell...Ouch.

Also the Wings have Downey in camp again.

This the Kings biggest problem, besides Simmonds our top 9 forwards are really not tough....same with our top 4 D man not including Mitchell.

Ideally Clifford can step into a top 9 role eventually and Muzzin or Teubert can replace Mitchell in a few years to spread the grit to the top spots instead of just the 4th line.


Last edited by Johnny Utah: 09-26-2010 at 02:55 PM.
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Old
09-26-2010, 03:45 PM
  #105
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I would think Moller, Lewis, and Fransson make the team.

The official line may be that if you earn a spot, you stick with the team, but realistically Moller and Lewis just haven't been outplayed enough for asset management to not come into play.

Assuming all the kids have value, if you don't give Lewis and Moller another shot then they are essentially gone for little or nothing (no other team is going to give anything worthwhile in return for relatively unproven prospects). At least the other kids have other places to go without having them exit the organization.

For the defense, none of the kids have done enough to warrant graduating from Manchester. Fransson as a free agent signing? Sure, he's auditioned well enough to earn himself a bottom pairing job. If he starts to stink up the joint, we have Harrold to hold the fort until we call up one of the several kids that could take his spot.

Smyth-Kopitar-Brown
Parse-Stoll-Williams
Poni-Handzus-Simmonds
Richardson-Moller-Lewis
Clune/Westgarth

Doughty-Mitchell
Johnson-Scuderi
Drewiske-Fransson
Harrold

I think they run with a 23-man roster like this and see how things play out for a little while. Clune and/or Westgarth can be dressed as needed over any of Parse, Moller, and Lewis. Eventually, they figure out who should be kept and who should be liquidated for more picks or younger prospects.

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09-26-2010, 09:16 PM
  #106
Johnny Utah
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Are you people oblivious to what the coaching staff and GM is saying?

The ignorance amazes me. Richardson-Moller-Lewis on the 4th line? Ha. That is the softest 4th line in the entire NHL.

Oh and by the way, Hickey is being paired with Drewiske as we speak. So he has the edge over everyone at this point.

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09-26-2010, 09:19 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Are you people oblivious to what the coaching staff and GM is saying?

The ignorance amazes me. Richardson-Moller-Lewis on the 4th line? Ha. That is the softest 4th line in the entire NHL.

Oh and by the way, Hickey is being paired with Drewiske as we speak. So he has the edge over everyone at this point.
I agree.

It will almost certainly have an agitator and a goon. Some combination Clune, Clifford and Westgarth, with Richardson, Schenn, Lewis etc. filling the other spot.

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09-26-2010, 09:40 PM
  #108
Johnny Utah
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I mean Lombardi, Hextall and Murray have talked about the need for an enforcer and having a tough 4th line. Either people aren't hearing this or they are just ignorant.

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09-26-2010, 10:00 PM
  #109
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Still think Schenn makes it as he doesn't have anything to prove in the WHL then next year Cliffy, Lokti and Moller will be added.

Clune/Richie - Schenn - Westgarth

Richie to be moved around when guys slump or need a wake up. If he continues to improve it will force some movement somewhere..all good for us.

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09-26-2010, 10:03 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
I mean Lombardi, Hextall and Murray have talked about the need for an enforcer and having a tough 4th line. Either people aren't hearing this or they are just ignorant.
I'm hearing it, its just Clifford is a good hockey player and can fill that enforcer role while at the same time not be a liability i.e. Rich Clune.

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09-26-2010, 10:13 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by two out of three View Post
I'm hearing it, its just Clifford is a good hockey player and can fill that enforcer role while at the same time not be a liability i.e. Rich Clune.
How or better yet, when, has Clune been a liability?

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Old
09-26-2010, 10:19 PM
  #112
Ziggy Stardust
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Clifford is more than an enforcer. He'll hopefully turn out to be LA's version of Milan Lucic with the potential to play as a top six power forward who can chip in with 20+ goals, 50+ points and over 100 PIMs.

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09-26-2010, 10:24 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by two out of three View Post
I'm hearing it, its just Clifford is a good hockey player and can fill that enforcer role while at the same time not be a liability i.e. Rich Clune.
Hey buddy I like Ciffy as much as anybody but we don't need to rush him and maybe have him get messed up by enforcers like Kassian, King and other heavy's. The kid has a lot of potential to maybe be a Hartnell or Tocchet type down the road. Going to be a tough decision for DL but I am confident it will be the right one. If Cliffy plays I want Westy there watching over him. Also, I'm sick of teams pushing us around like Van did in the playoffs so you guys better get used to Westy and Clune; just wish we had a bomb on D (still pissed we didn't draft Dave Manson).

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Old
09-26-2010, 10:27 PM
  #114
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Smyth-Kopitar-Brown
Parse-Stoll-Williams
Poni-Handzus-Simmonds
Richardson-Schenn-Lewis
Westgarth, Clune

Doughty-Mitchell
Johnson-Scuderi
Drewiske-Hickey
Harrold

Quick
Bernier

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Old
09-26-2010, 10:56 PM
  #115
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I don't see Lewis making the over Moller and Loktionov

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09-26-2010, 10:59 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Haik View Post
I don't see Lewis making the over Moller and Loktionov
If it's strictly as a 4th liner, yeah he will.

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Old
09-26-2010, 11:03 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razzy View Post
Hey buddy I like Ciffy as much as anybody but we don't need to rush him and maybe have him get messed up by enforcers like Kassian, King and other heavy's. The kid has a lot of potential to maybe be a Hartnell or Tocchet type down the road. Going to be a tough decision for DL but I am confident it will be the right one. If Cliffy plays I want Westy there watching over him. Also, I'm sick of teams pushing us around like Van did in the playoffs so you guys better get used to Westy and Clune; just wish we had a bomb on D (still pissed we didn't draft Dave Manson).
The one that sits w/ me is the Duck's hit on O. Moller last year. I think it was B Ryan. Backbones are good things in this game. I like your assessment here.

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09-26-2010, 11:04 PM
  #118
Johnny Utah
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Clifford is no enforcer. He was a light heavyweight in juniors. He is 6'1 201 lbs. That is not heavyweight size or weight in the NHL, he will get murdered by the big boys. Plus, kid is only 19 years old. He is my fav Kings prospect but there is no way he could fight guys like Parros, Hordichuk, Boogard, Orr, Godard...At this age and size he will lose more than he wins and might get hurt.

I love Clifford and his upside is great but more in the realm of Lucic or Chris Neil and neither are NHL heavies...they occasionally fight them, but usually lose. They both have other heavyweights to take care of that....Carkner in Ottawa and Orr in Toronto. Just like Westgarth in LA.

If anything Jordan Nolan has the potential to be an NHL enforcer, with his size and fighting skills. Dropyourgloves.com has Nolans career fight record at 19-2-4...and he is 6'3" 225 lbs. Clifford may be a better player but Nolan is the second toughest guy in the organization to Westy....Clifford is probably the 3rd.

Not taking anything away from Kyle because he is bad ass but I am giving him a compliment in a way, he has more potential than Westy or Nolan, but he can't be called upon to handle the enforcer duties all by himself, especially at 19 years old? Are you serious? Parros didn't become an NHL enforcer until he was 25 and he is 6'5"!


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Old
09-26-2010, 11:08 PM
  #119
Haik
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Originally Posted by KopitarFAN View Post
If it's strictly as a 4th liner, yeah he will.
I don't see it. I'd much rather play Westgarth or Clune instead of Lewis.

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Old
09-26-2010, 11:11 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Haik View Post
I don't see it. I'd much rather play Westgarth or Clune instead of Lewis.
I'm not say he will make the team, but to have Moller or Loktionov in that spot would be a horrible waste.

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09-26-2010, 11:17 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by KopitarFAN View Post
I'm not say he will make the team, but to have Moller or Loktionov in that spot would be a horrible waste.
Sure but Lewis hasn't outplayed anyone to warrant a spot on the team. I honestly see Moller replacing Parse on the 2nd line. I'm also not sold on Stoll being our 2nd line center and I would much rather give those minutes to Richie.

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09-26-2010, 11:21 PM
  #122
I Am Ziggy Palffy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Clifford is no enforcer. He was a light heavyweight in juniors. He is 6'1 201 lbs. That is not heavyweight size or weight in the NHL, he will get murdered by the big boys. Plus, kid is only 19 years old. He is my fav Kings prospect but there is no way he could fight guys like Parros, Hordichuk, Boogard, Orr, Godard...At this age and size he will lose more than he wins and might get hurt.
for every ivanans v. ryan carter mismatch, there were 40 other games where ivanans was dressed and predictably useless on the ice since he was the only enforcer on the ice.

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09-26-2010, 11:31 PM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Ziggy Palffy View Post
for every ivanans v. ryan carter mismatch, there were 40 other games where ivanans was dressed and predictably useless on the ice since he was the only enforcer on the ice.
That, and what is honestly the point of Westgarth fighting George Parros? Both of those guys are barely relevant at all when it comes to winning hockey games..

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09-26-2010, 11:54 PM
  #124
Herby
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Originally Posted by two out of three View Post
That, and what is honestly the point of Westgarth fighting George Parros? Both of those guys are barely relevant at all when it comes to winning hockey games..
Because sadly for many people this is one of/the only reasons they follow hockey is for the fights.

I have no problem with a fight breaking out in the heat of the game, but to dress guys just for the sake of fighting is ridiculous.

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09-26-2010, 11:56 PM
  #125
Herby
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Originally Posted by I Am Ziggy Palffy View Post
for every ivanans v. ryan carter mismatch, there were 40 other games where ivanans was dressed and predictably useless on the ice since he was the only enforcer on the ice.
Exactly, because many teams will only dress an enforcer in potentially "chippy games" the Kings had Ivanans out there waaaaay to much the past couple of years, hell I remember him skating with Handzus and Frolov. Then there was the game in Calgary where the "toughness presence" didn't prevent Phaneuf from cheapshotting Kopitar, and then Ivanans replied by attacking David Moss of all people, I felt embarrassed of our team that night.

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