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2nd Round of Cuts (Zuccarello, Grachev to HFD; Semenov, Exelby released)

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Old
09-27-2010, 04:18 PM
  #226
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Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
Where did I say all hope was lost or that he was a bust? I said it was a bad sign, which it is, he doesn't look like he improved.

Would you consider this training camp a success for Grachev?
Dont even bother getting into a pissing match with the prospect lovers. Its been my experience that they cant look at things objectively and simply believe they can do no wrong. When challenged, the general response is "yea, way to give up on a 20 year old" or something like that. Next thing you know, Grachev is 23, still not in the NHL, and they've moved onto the next shiny toy.

As for Grachev, no, noones giving up on him, but damn, he really showed very little in his 2 pre-season games. Kids in need or serious coaching that can help him put it all together.

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09-27-2010, 04:19 PM
  #227
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Disappointed to see MZA cut before all of the preseason games at least.

VERY unimpressed with Grachev. Yeah he's young, but he's supposed to be one of our top prospects- Stepan came in from college and has been solid. Grachev has been underwhelming, to say the least.

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09-27-2010, 04:32 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Dont even bother getting into a pissing match with the prospect lovers. Its been my experience that they cant look at things objectively and simply believe they can do no wrong. When challenged, the general response is "yea, way to give up on a 20 year old" or something like that. Next thing you know, Grachev is 23, still not in the NHL, and they've moved onto the next shiny toy.

As for Grachev, no, noones giving up on him, but damn, he really showed very little in his 2 pre-season games. Kids in need or serious coaching that can help him put it all together.
If he had said "Grachev showed he';ll never be a top prospect" then he's an idiot and I wouldn't blame people for argueing with him.

But clearly we agree what he said was fine. Grachev really showed nothing this preseason. His traverse city camp was great and it showed he has something. maybe he needs better linemates idk. the guy defending grachev was overreacting...not as badly as your post indicates but yea it was an overreaction for sure.

I really did get this sense of oh crap...watching Grachev this preseason but then I also thought we definitely need to wait to see what happens this year in the AHL. If he has a bad year again though he'd be likely trade bait for a center knowing the shape this team is in and who is at the helm. But I don't even wanna get into potential center trades already based on training camp that would be horrendous on my part.

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09-27-2010, 04:34 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Dont even bother getting into a pissing match with the prospect lovers. Its been my experience that they cant look at things objectively and simply believe they can do no wrong. When challenged, the general response is "yea, way to give up on a 20 year old" or something like that. Next thing you know, Grachev is 23, still not in the NHL, and they've moved onto the next shiny toy.

As for Grachev, no, noones giving up on him, but damn, he really showed very little in his 2 pre-season games. Kids in need or serious coaching that can help him put it all together.
I thought he looked good his first game and invisible his second.

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Old
09-27-2010, 04:34 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Dont even bother getting into a pissing match with the prospect lovers. Its been my experience that they cant look at things objectively and simply believe they can do no wrong. When challenged, the general response is "yea, way to give up on a 20 year old" or something like that. Next thing you know, Grachev is 23, still not in the NHL, and they've moved onto the next shiny toy.

As for Grachev, no, noones giving up on him, but damn, he really showed very little in his 2 pre-season games. Kids in need or serious coaching that can help him put it all together.
Thank you. I myself am a huge fan of Grachev, and I think he has tremendous potential, but like you said he needs someone to teach him to position himself better. He even had trouble getting open for passes. Did he register one shot this entire camp?

Nobody is giving up on him.

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09-27-2010, 04:58 PM
  #231
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how anyone can complain about youth making/not making the team is beyond me. Right now the competition for the 5th/6th d spots are down to Gilroy, Sauer, McDonagh and Valentenko. Add in MDZ as a sophmore and you have about 140 games of NHL experience from half the blueliners.

Our top 2 centers right now, being given every opportunity to earn those spots are Stepan and Anisimov. Grachev blew his chance. MZA needs an adjustment period. How old is Kennedy again? Still in contention. This is who will accompany the team of 20 somethings who must make Prospal and Drury feel like grandfathers. This is the youngest Ranger team I have ever seen and I couldn't imagine the chaos or disasters if we got any younger. Sather and Tortorella are walking that fine line of getting younger while being responsible to the futures of these kids.

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09-27-2010, 05:14 PM
  #232
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we cut vets in favor of kids...and ppl are complaining?!

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09-27-2010, 05:28 PM
  #233
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we cut vets in favor of kids...and ppl are complaining?!
Well said!

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09-27-2010, 05:29 PM
  #234
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I get the feeling Grachev is either going to be a bust or a very late bloomer.

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09-27-2010, 05:30 PM
  #235
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I get the feeling Grachev is either going to be a bust or a very late bloomer.
How did you come up with that conclusion?

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09-27-2010, 05:32 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
I get the feeling Grachev is either going to be a bust or a very late bloomer.
So you get the feeling that our 20 year old prospect who just scored 80 points 2 years ago in the OHL, had apparently played well at Traverse City this year, that he might be a bust? Based on?

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09-27-2010, 05:32 PM
  #237
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How did you come up with that conclusion?
I tend to agree. The guy hasn't shown me any glimpse of "potential" the past 2 training camps.

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09-27-2010, 05:33 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch View Post
So you get the feeling that our 20 year old prospect who just scored 80 points 2 years ago in the OHL, had apparently played well at Traverse City this year, that he might be a bust? Based on?
Two disappointing preseasons and a very disappointing AHL season, all things considered.

Stop acting like Grachev is untouchable, he's been incredibly underwhelming as of so far.

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09-27-2010, 05:34 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
I don't agree with Semenov. I loved his size back there and thought he would have made it. The rest don't surprise me too much.
couldnt agree more....was kinda high on this guy....eminger? pppfftt. we've found a new whipping boy----(i know, i know, too soon.)

Where does EC factor with this unexpected Stapan development?

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09-27-2010, 05:36 PM
  #240
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right. the coaching staff has no eye for talent and actually *desires* dressing crap players. 'sting' for coach...
I guess the 29 other teams around the league missed that talent, too, when none of them picked him up off of waivers and his own team was unwilling to give him a relatively small raise.

I fail to see any reason why this team needs a worse, smaller version of Ryan Callahan. Even if Kennedy is the 13th forward who splits time with the ridiculously overpaid goon, why not just have another big guy that can actually play dress for Boogaard instead of yet another smallish guy who isn't going to do much of anything? I think anyone who sees 50 points out of Kennedy EVER in his career is nuts.

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Maybe he should have played better while here. There's a reason he was released. He did not impress enough over our youth and other defenders to warrant a contract. He was given a tryout as a favor. They didn't even have to give him that. What more did he deserve?
Pretty sure he deserved that #7 job, since he looked a lot more impressive than Eminger did in camp or ever has since becoming an NHLer.

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09-27-2010, 05:39 PM
  #241
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Just saw this now.

Semenov cut? I'm shocked, honestly thought he was the frontrunner for the 7th D spot.

Looks like Sauer, Valentenko, and Eminger will fight it out.

I'm disappointed Zuccarello wasn't given a longer look. He improved each shift. Hopefully he makes it later in the year, I like him a lot. Tenacious little player. Good head on his shoulders. And he clearly has skill and good on ice awareness and vision. I hope he continues to improve in Hartford and gets a call up soon.

Still really surprised about Semenov.

I guess McDonagh and Gilroy locked up their 3rd pairing spots. Sounds great to me.

Not surprised Grachev got sent down. He isn't ready yet mentally. Physically yes. But he needs to learn more. He has time on his side, he's VERY young. Only 20 years old. He will make it in the near future. Not a doubt.

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09-27-2010, 05:39 PM
  #242
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An elite prospect would have shown something by now. Maybe now isn't the time but sooner rather than later, I would seriously consider putting him in a trade. The right trade that is. While his value is still high. Not every single prospect will work out. An organization has to evaluate who will make it and will not. You hold on to everybody too long, you lose valuable assets when it comes to trades.

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09-27-2010, 05:44 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
I don't agree with Semenov. I loved his size back there and thought he would have made it. The rest don't surprise me too much.
yea but when it comes down to it Eminger is under contract. Also Semenov was a dink and left the team after he went through camp and made it. Numbers were just too high thiss time around. Atleast the team has more depth that are close to the NHL

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09-27-2010, 05:48 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
yea but when it comes down to it Eminger is under contract. Also Semenov was a dink and left the team after he went through camp and made it. Numbers were just too high thiss time around. Atleast the team has more depth that are close to the NHL
what numbers?


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09-27-2010, 06:45 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
He is 20 years old...
So are some outstanding players in the NHL.

Face it, so far he looks like the next big ball of hype. It might turn around but he couldn't look much worse than he has since he turned pro.

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09-27-2010, 06:48 PM
  #246
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So are some outstanding players in the NHL.

Face it, so far he looks like the next big ball of hype. It might turn around but he couldn't look much worse than he has since he turned pro.
please list for me the 20 year old 3rd round picks who are "outstanding" in the nhl right now

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09-27-2010, 06:58 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by FOXHOUND View Post
please list for me the 20 year old 3rd round picks who are "outstanding" in the nhl right now
Right, please list the 3rd round picks that are ourstanding in the NHL ever. Way to counteract your own argument.

Time to face reality, the hype regarding Grachev was/is WAY overblown. His junior numbers, while admirable, were inflated playing primarily with a #3 and #10 overall draft pick.

His pro career, thus far, cant be described any other way than disappointing.

Is he a bust? Nope, hes only 20 years old. But this a HUGE season in the AHL for his development.

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09-27-2010, 07:04 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by FOXHOUND View Post
please list for me the 20 year old 3rd round picks who are "outstanding" in the nhl right now
Geez, now we are changing the parameters to 3rd round picks who have made it. Don't ya get it? So far he looks no better than Jessiman. Disagree?

It's not about how he compares to other 3rd-rounders his age, because if we are going to use that as a measuring stick than you are using a probability that says he has almost no chance of ever being an impact NHL player, which we have been led to believe about Grachev, ever since he was drafted here.

I don't know of a single person who has seen even a glimmer of hope about him, to date. Again, this doesn't mean it won't someday happen, but the smart money is pointing far more in the direction of outright bust than future NHL top 6 player.

He is certainly nothing approaching what a lot of people have been posting here for over a year. Last pre-season, some of the resident geniuses were calling for him to be a top sixer without having ever seen him.

Some fans think that every kid is going to be great. Every year, it's a new name that is going to be great. It just doesn't work that way.

At this point, don't assume he has all that much trade value either. If he busts this year in the AHL, I'll look forward to fans saying that now the Rangers should trade him for something like a 1st rounder when his accurate value will be a 7th rounder.

I never get involved in the discussions that say this one will be great or not until I see them perform against NHL caliber players. Until then, unless you're an obvious budding star like a Crosby, the jury is totally out.

This I can promise you, if Grachev doesn't show marked improvement in Hartford this year, he will never make it, and it won't be bad coaching that stunts him. That is a pure garbage, whining excuse. They all get the same coaching. Do you think it mattered who coached a Getzlaf, or a Kane, or name whomever you want, etcetera?

Good players don't need coaching. If they haven't figured out the nuances of the game by the time they are old enough to play in the NHL, they ain't gonna figure it out.

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Old
09-27-2010, 07:13 PM
  #249
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Pretty sure he deserved that #7 job, since he looked a lot more impressive than Eminger did in camp or ever has since becoming an NHLer.
He was barely better than Eminger. Semenov is not some great player. He's a 6/7 d-man. Are you really OK with wasting a roster spot on him when he is a marginal, at best, upgrade over Eminger? I dislike Eminger a lot. But I'm at least rational enough to realize that Semenov isn't worth a roster spot when compared to Eminger. I've said something like, "Eminger ****ing sucks and better not be near this ****ing team" in the past and I stand by it. But if it comes down to having both his contract AND Semenov's contract on the books? I'll gladly just take Eminger's.

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Old
09-27-2010, 07:29 PM
  #250
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I tend to agree. The guy hasn't shown me any glimpse of "potential" the past 2 training camps.
wasn't he the last player cut last year? last 3 at least.

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