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Trade Dubinsky....... Now.

View Poll Results: Trade Dubinsky?
Keep Dubinsky. He's a valuable part of our future 105 43.75%
Trade Him. It won't hurt our club and we can get something good in return. 23 9.58%
On the side of keeping him, but would not object to a trade if for the right return. 112 46.67%
Voters: 240. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
09-28-2010, 03:18 PM
  #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
As to where I get the perception of his value around the league: I base it on the fact that he has been the centerpiece of every reported major deal that we've turned down over the last two years. I also base it on multiple reports I've read about teams having interest in him. It's all rumor - but then again, by definition that's all I'll ever have to go on until such time as he is traded (if that ever happens).

And it my perception is wrong, then no problem we keep him and we have a nice 2nd liner for the long-term. (In which case we should trade one or more of Grachev, Kreider or Werek to shore up the C or RW position since they can't all play top 6 LW.)

Also, just for the record, I didn't say that we could get a 70-80 point player for him straight up; what I said was that if other teams are willing to pay fair value for a projected 70-80 point player in order to acquire him, we should take it.

I think it only makes sense though that rumors involving the Rangers would revolve around him.

Who wouldn't want the kid? Besides a handful of people on here apparently.

Factor in age/contract/cap hit/other things we have to offer and it only makes sense that he's the name we hear.

Gaborik/Hank/Staal are off limits.

DZ is what, 19? And he's already looked like he's going to be a stud offensive d-man. Teams know there's no way we're moving him at this point.

Frolov? Just signed him when no one else wanted him, not going to trade him.

Cally? He's got an A on his chest for a reason, I don't think teams are dumb enough to call up and ask about him.

I mean when you really look at it, the only major player it makes sense for teams to call about is Dubinsky.

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09-28-2010, 05:09 PM
  #152
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Pretty much 90% of those responding aren't in a hurry to get rid of Dubinsky.

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09-28-2010, 05:44 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Pretty much 90% of those responding aren't in a hurry to get rid of Dubinsky.
It's pretty open-and-shut.

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09-28-2010, 06:26 PM
  #154
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Would have gone with the third choice, but I jumped the gun and chose the first one.

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Old
09-28-2010, 06:54 PM
  #155
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Dubinsky's PPG production last season was consistent with an above average 2nd line player to be clear. Just because some hfboards posters think all 2nd liner should pot 30 goals doesn't make it correct.

Only on the very best teams is he a third liner. He'd be Pittsburgh's top LW. There were only 24 30 goal scorers last year. Thats less than one per team. Dubinsky finished 105th amongst forwards in goals, while suffering a shortened season.

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09-28-2010, 06:55 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
We'll be over the cap with a Dubinsky/Richards trade, so this scenario isn't even worth exploring.



Head your head out of your ass. Richards has a 7.8M cap hit. Dubinsky's is 1.850M. Where the hell are we getting the extra cap room necessary to make this happen?




The only fool here is the person exploring a trade that doesn't work from a cap perspective.

Like I said before I was using Richards as an example. If a player of his mold became available, someone who is a playmaking center that can make everyone around him that much better then I would trade Dubinsky in a heartbeat for them. I know we can't acquire Richards as presently set up cap-wise, but since people were talking about him I simply used him to carry on an example of a player type I would trade Dubinsky for.

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09-28-2010, 07:03 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Dubinsky's PPG production last season was consistent with an above average 2nd line player to be clear. Just because some hfboards posters think all 2nd liner should pot 30 goals doesn't make it correct.
Some guys don't know what's going on with this team, let alone other teams.

If you don't follow the game around the league, how can you compare apples to apples?

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09-28-2010, 07:07 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by NYSportsfan6230 View Post
Like I said before I was using Richards as an example. If a player of his mold became available, someone who is a playmaking center that can make everyone around him that much better then I would trade Dubinsky in a heartbeat for them. I know we can't acquire Richards as presently set up cap-wise, but since people were talking about him I simply used him to carry on an example of a player type I would trade Dubinsky for.
How many players of Richards mold are going to be moved for Dubinsky? Or even Dubinsky+?

If Richards had a few years left on his contract, and we had the cap space necessary to acquire him, I'd be all over this type of swap.

There aren't many top-6 centers being shopped around for a reason.

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09-28-2010, 07:20 PM
  #159
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Basically it works out this way:

If the Rangers trade Dubinsky we'll regret it.

If the Rangers don't trade Dubinsky we'll regret it.

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09-28-2010, 07:25 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
How many players of Richards mold are going to be moved for Dubinsky? Or even Dubinsky+?

If Richards had a few years left on his contract, and we had the cap space necessary to acquire him, I'd be all over this type of swap.

There aren't many top-6 centers being shopped around for a reason.
I know that there aren't any presently available, but that's why I said I'd trade Dubinsky in a heartbeat if a player of that ilk was available. I won't simply throw Dubinsky away just for the sake of change, I would only if it would make the team better, obivously. I don't expect to find somone of that caliber available until 2011 Free Agency, so until then we sit and wait.

If next offseason it ever comes down to giving Richards 5-6 million or giving Dubinsky 4 million I would still give it to Richards, but that's me personally.

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09-28-2010, 07:28 PM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYSportsfan6230 View Post
I know that there aren't any presently available, but that's why I said I'd trade Dubinsky in a heartbeat if a player of that ilk was available. I won't simply throw Dubinsky away just for the sake of change, I would only if it would make the team better, obivously. I don't expect to find somone of that caliber available until 2011 Free Agency, so until then we sit and wait.

If next offseason it ever comes down to giving Richards 5-6 million or giving Dubinsky 4 million I would still give it to Richards, but that's me personally.
You think Richards is signing for 5-6 million?

I think his point is that you don't even have to say what you said. By commenting like that it just comes off as wanting to move Dubinsky. Because anyone with half a brain understands that if you're getting 80-90 point player it's a no brainer.

The problem is, it's not even worth talking about, because teams don't give them away.

If you or anybody else wants to construct a realistic trade proposal, then there might be some debate.

Unfortunately we've seen that no one can, so there's really nothing to talk about.

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Old
09-28-2010, 09:44 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Pretty much 90% of those responding aren't in a hurry to get rid of Dubinsky.
Just goes to show you... people that dislike players, dislike them really loudly.

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09-28-2010, 09:52 PM
  #163
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Just goes to show you... people that dislike players, dislike them really loudly.
Except that I don't think most people posting in here actually DISLIKE Dubi. I certainly don't. In fact, I quite like him - I just think we could get more for him than he's actually worth.

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09-28-2010, 10:13 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Except that I don't think most people posting in here actually DISLIKE Dubi. I certainly don't. In fact, I quite like him - I just think we could get more for him than he's actually worth.
I haven't heard a single realistic rumor or proposal that illustrates what you're saying.

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09-28-2010, 10:57 PM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBurd View Post
I haven't heard a single realistic rumor or proposal that illustrates what you're saying.
I guess you missed the Heatley thing. It's not a rumor either when the other teams gm comes out and pretty much names the player (dubinsky) they were asking about.

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Old
09-28-2010, 11:11 PM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Atoz View Post
Basically it works out this way:

If the Rangers trade Dubinsky we'll regret it.

If the Rangers don't trade Dubinsky we'll regret it.
How is that even remotely true?

Dubinsky isn't untouchable, but to just say we'll regret not trading him...without even mentioning a hypothetical deal, is absurd.

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09-28-2010, 11:21 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by BklyNYR4Life View Post
How is that even remotely true?

Dubinsky isn't untouchable, but to just say we'll regret not trading him...without even mentioning a hypothetical deal, is absurd.
The whole idea reminds me when we traded York for Poti. Fans weren't too happy about that one and a big reason Poti cought so much flack from NYR fans during his time here. But in the end we won that trade. Poti is a top four defender on a SC contending team and York is playing in the German league or somethin.

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09-29-2010, 12:00 AM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
The whole idea reminds me when we traded York for Poti. Fans weren't too happy about that one and a big reason Poti cought so much flack from NYR fans during his time here. But in the end we won that trade. Poti is a top four defender on a SC contending team and York is playing in the German league or somethin.
I'm criticizing his statement more so than the notion of trading Dubinsky under the right circumstances.

I don't regret not trading Dubinsky...the kid is still learning and will be a good 2nd liner with some snarl when all is said and done. What's the trade that we passed on that I'm supposed to be regretting?

And yes, you're right...we technically came out on top in the York/Poti trade. But Poti also caught flak for being a piss-poor dman who wouldn't take the body, and was afraid to use the offensive instincts he had.

And Washington's success is HARDLY an indictment of Poti's play...that sort of statement is farcical at best.

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09-29-2010, 12:26 AM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
I guess you missed the Heatley thing. It's not a rumor either when the other teams gm comes out and pretty much names the player (dubinsky) they were asking about.
That's old news. Get over it already. I'm talking about right now... where all the calls to trade him are happening.

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09-29-2010, 09:12 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
I guess you missed the Heatley thing. It's not a rumor either when the other teams gm comes out and pretty much names the player (dubinsky) they were asking about.
You should remember that it wasn't Dubinsky for Heatley straight up.

It was Dubinsky+. And that was a move that this organization didn't feel good about making at the time.

In any other proposal it would be the exact same situation. Heatley isn't feasible anymore.

That's part of my point about how trading Dubinsky is nonsense.

If it's going to cost him + top prospect/draft pick + another roster player, I don't see how it's worth it for us to make any sort of move like that at this stage of the organization.

We are NOT one player away from a Stanley Cup. If we were the argument could be different.

This organization is building something, and Dubi is right at the center of it.

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09-29-2010, 09:29 AM
  #171
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Dubinsky + may've been worth Heatley, but then again, the Rangers got Gabby and kept Dubi, so one can't be too upset about not making a trade because I'd rather have Gabby and Dubi+, as opposed to Heatley (and would rather have Heatley over Gabby though, but like keeping the assets). Now if it was for Spezza, that would've been a different story as the Rangers needed a centerman more than a wing, and Spezza + Gabby would've been nice.

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09-29-2010, 09:37 AM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
Dubinsky + may've been worth Heatley, but then again, the Rangers got Gabby and kept Dubi, so one can't be too upset about not making a trade because I'd rather have Gabby and Dubi+, as opposed to Heatley (and would rather have Heatley over Gabby though, but like keeping the assets). Now if it was for Spezza, that would've been a different story as the Rangers needed a centerman more than a wing, and Spezza + Gabby would've been nice.
Absolutely. I remember being so torn when those rumors were swirling. I never once thought if we made that deal it was a horrible move, it just came down to the fact that I really like Dubinsky and didn't want to part with him.

My point here though is that Heatley is not available anymore. The number of top players worth moving someone like Dubinsky for are where exactly?

The name that constantly comes up is Richards. But unless this organization thinks it can win a Stanley Cup THIS season, why would you move Dubinsky + for Richards who is an impending UFA after the season?

You just wait until after the year to go and sign him, you don't trade a package like that for him now if he's not getting you the Cup this season.

There's zero logic in it.

Aside from that, people just want to throw hypothetical crap out there about how they'd trade him for some fictional elite player.

Obviously, we'd all do that. Until there's something that realistically makes sense (a Heatley deal type thing all over again) there is nothing to talk about on this front.

And IMO the fact that Sather could've had Heatley and didn't want to part with Dubinsky+ tells me that he doesn't plan on moving Brandon anytime soon.

That's something fans of this organization should be quite happy about. Not something they should be spending there time on concocting ways to get him off the team.

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Old
09-29-2010, 10:18 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Only on the very best teams is he a third liner.
But that's the standard for which you're aiming, to be one of the very best teams. If you acknowledge that he's a 3rd liner on one of the very best, you're saying that's what we should expect him to be when/if we become legit championship contenders.

That being the case, if you can move him for a player who would be a second liner on the very best teams, you do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Dubinsky finished 105th amongst forwards in goals, while suffering a shortened season.
Sure but he also finished 41st in average time on ice. The discrepency between his ice time and his production is noticeable.

There are seventeen players that are roughly comparable in TOI. ("Roughly comparable" being +/- 15 seconds per game, which seemed fair to me.) Of those seventeen, only four had a lower goals per game average than Dubinsky.

Only three averaged fewer points per game: Callahan, J. Staal, and Horcoff.

I like Dubinsky for his all-around game, and I don't want to take anything away from him for that reason, but his production as a function of the amount of ice time he's given is average, nothing more.

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09-29-2010, 10:45 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by dedalus View Post

Sure but he also finished 41st in average time on ice. The discrepency between his ice time and his production is noticeable.

There are seventeen players that are roughly comparable in TOI. ("Roughly comparable" being +/- 15 seconds per game, which seemed fair to me.) Of those seventeen, only four had a lower goals per game average than Dubinsky.

Only three averaged fewer points per game: Callahan, J. Staal, and Horcoff.

I like Dubinsky for his all-around game, and I don't want to take anything away from him for that reason, but his production as a function of the amount of ice time he's given is average, nothing more.
He was also 187th in PP time, where a lot of a players points are scored, while being 41st in SH time.

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09-29-2010, 10:48 PM
  #175
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Good stats, dedalus. 41st in TOI, I did not know that.

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