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Avtsin in trouble???

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Old
09-24-2010, 03:04 PM
  #1
HABsurde
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Avtsin in trouble???

According to Martin McGuire on CKAC, in his opinion Avtsin is regressing everyday and he even believes that the way he's been practicing at the big camp last couple of days, he doesn't think he'll make the team in Hamilton....

I believe Avtsin should be a lock for Hamilton, but what do you make of that kind of assesment... If somebody is close to the game, it as to be Mcguire and even if he can be wrong on judgment, he is rarely far off...

what do you people think?

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09-24-2010, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by HABsurde View Post
According to Martin McGuire on CKAC, in his opinion Avtsin is regressing everyday and he even believes that the way he's been practicing at the big camp last couple of days, he doesn't think he'll make the team in Hamilton....

I believe Avtsin should be a lock for Hamilton, but what do you make of that kind of assesment... If somebody is close to the game, it as to be Mcguire and even if he can be wrong on judgment, he is rarely far off...

what do you people think?
I would be very very very surprised if he doesn't make Hamilton. Asking him to report to his junior team instead is like inviting him to go back to Russia. The guy have way too raw talent for something like that to happen.

But then, I'm not following the practices.

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09-24-2010, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by HABsurde View Post
According to Martin McGuire on CKAC, in his opinion Avtsin is regressing everyday and he even believes that the way he's been practicing at the big camp last couple of days, he doesn't think he'll make the team in Hamilton....

I believe Avtsin should be a lock for Hamilton, but what do you make of that kind of assesment... If somebody is close to the game, it as to be Mcguire and even if he can be wrong on judgment, he is rarely far off...

what do you people think?
I saw a highlight video of him in training camp...while others were skating hard and practicing entrances in the offensive zone...he was practicing his stick handling skills with a puck on the ice. This guy thinks he's still in Russia.

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09-24-2010, 03:07 PM
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Guess i wasn't far off when i said there was something weird about him not being a part of the roster tonight.

'regressing everyday' though? really? Is this related to his injury?

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09-24-2010, 03:11 PM
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not surprised by this. i have been saying this for the last 6 month that Avstyn should play in the qmjhl before going ahl. and McGuire has seen every habs pratice from the rookie camp and big camp

And thats not his style to criticized a habs player/prospect since he basically work for the habs.

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09-24-2010, 03:12 PM
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Well it's weird cause they would have cut him already.Avtsin from all reports is full of talent but to be honest and I've been saying this all summer I know it might be a joke to him but I would really try and convince him to join the Montreal Juniors,maybe Leblanc can talk to him

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09-24-2010, 03:13 PM
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lefebvre - leblanc - avtsin

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09-24-2010, 03:15 PM
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2 days ago, Jacques Martin said himself in a press conference that a guy like Avtsin was getting better each and every passing day. I wouldn't put too much stock on what McGuire says. The guy can't even identify who are left wingers and who are right wingers on the ice when he reports...

I just hope the coaching staff treats Avtsin differently. He's a very important player for our future, and they must find a way to make his adaptation in North America easier. They have to be careful and not scare him away from playing in NA.

As for playing in Junior, this is ridiculous, unless you're egoist and you want to see the guy more often. He's already dominated/destroyed the Junior league in Russia, and while North American hockey is different, he'd be a target to each and every goon wanting to make a name for themselves out there, and he's already got pro skills and pro shape.

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09-24-2010, 03:19 PM
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I read an interview with him the other day and he seemed pretty optimistic, so I don't know what to believe. Everyone loves a controversy though so I would take anything he says with a grain of salt.

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09-24-2010, 03:23 PM
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Sorry but I don't believe that 1 guy in the whole city of Montreal is the only one that thinks Avtsin is in a regressing mode after only 2 weeks of camp, and makes it true, maybe they just don't want to aggravate his injury or something.

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09-24-2010, 03:24 PM
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I'm sure communication is a big obstacle at this point, but I don't think the organization is as down on him as McGuire is. He's not going to report to the Q, but having him watch games/practices is probably the best learning tool given the linguistic differences right now.

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09-24-2010, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Cam A Larry View Post
As for playing in Junior, this is ridiculous, unless you're egoist and you want to see the guy more often. He's already dominated/destroyed the Junior league in Russia, and while North American hockey is different, he'd be a target to each and every goon wanting to make a name for themselves out there, and he's already got pro skills and pro shape.
no, the thinking about playing him in junior if he doesnt get quality ice time in the ahl he should be in the q. he played 30 game last year in the khl and average 6-7min/gm and what will be the point of having him in the ahl playing 8min/gm. Remember the dogs will be a stacked team once again this year with a lot of depth. if he can earn good quality ice time with the bulldogs..thats awesome..but the way things are going now i doubt it. he's got great scoring potential but the rest of his game his not up there yet.

about being a target againts goon in junior. first of all, there's not many goon left in the qmjhl. and if Avstyn is a target what you think Leblanc will be ? players need to go through this. crosby learn from it in his day in rimouski same thing will happen with Leblanc/avstyn

Avstyn will go to the bulldogs camp and will see from there

btw, im not sure whats up with Avstyn right with the Montreal Juniors. im not sure the Juniors still own his right.

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09-24-2010, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by nhldraftvideo View Post
no, the thinking about playing him in junior if he doesnt get quality ice time in the ahl he should be in the q. he played 30 game last year in the khl and average 6-7min/gm and what will be the point of having him in the ahl playing 8min/gm. Remember the dogs will be a stacked team once again this year with a lot of depth. if he can earn good quality ice time with the bulldogs..thats awesome..but the way things are going now i doubt it. he's got great scoring potential but the rest of his game his not up there yet.

about being a target againts goon in junior. first of all, there's not many goon left in the qmjhl. and if Avstyn is a target what you think Leblanc will be ? players need to go through this. crosby learn from it in his day in rimouski same thing will happen with Leblanc/avstyn

Avstyn will go to the bulldogs camp and will see from there

btw, im not sure whats up with Avstyn right with the Montreal Juniors. im not sure the Juniors still own his right.
The guy is not interested in playing Junior. This is the best way possible to lose him forever. You CAN'T treat a guy like him as any other prospect. Grachev played in the AHL last season, and while he didn't have an easy year, he's learning and I'm sure in the long run it'll be good for him.

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09-24-2010, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Cam A Larry View Post
The guy is not interested in playing Junior. This is the best way possible to lose him forever. You CAN'T treat a guy like him as any other prospect. Grachev played in the AHL last season, and while he didn't have an easy year, he's learning and I'm sure in the long run it'll be good for him.
I understand he wouldn't wanna play in the Juniors,but you can't say 7-8 minutes of AHL is better then 20 in the Juniors.I know he won't be happy and always can go back to Russia and like you said have that chance to losing him for good but he did say when he came here he would do what ever the Habs told him to do.Anyways I just hope everything works out,right now my concern is he isn't 100% and that's why he isn't performing well/playing

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09-24-2010, 03:45 PM
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Well, that's not what I heard McGuire said.

What I heard is that Avtsin was in fact pretty far of the NHL in the way he plays the game until now.

McGuire said that he believes Avtsin would benefit more if he was playing a full year in Junior (which is not so surprising given he's just 19).

McGuire add that Avtsin doesn't seem to understand that backchecking hard is an important part of the game in north america.

I never heard McGuire said that he was "regressing". But it,s true I didn't listen at him today.

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09-24-2010, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
I understand he wouldn't wanna play in the Juniors,but you can't say 7-8 minutes of AHL is better then 20 in the Juniors.I know he won't be happy and always can go back to Russia and like you said have that chance to losing him for good but he did say when he came here he would do what ever the Habs told him to do.Anyways I just hope everything works out,right now my concern is he isn't 100% and that's why he isn't performing well/playing
I really hope they find a way to convince him that playing in Juniors is best for his long term North American hockey career.

Can he join the AHL if he's doing well in Juniors?

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09-24-2010, 03:49 PM
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I really hope they find a way to convince him that playing in Juniors is best for his long term North American hockey career.

Can he join the AHL if he's doing well in Juniors?
He could but at that point he would be better off finishing the year in the Juniors,maybe Montreal winning it all and having a shot at playing in the Memorial Cup.Anyways let's see what happens,I honestly don't think he is 100%

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09-24-2010, 03:50 PM
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I won't be surprise if Avtsin dont play a pre-season game but I will be surprise if he don't make the Bulldogs even if his overall play seem to be under Ahl calibre

but I wish he play a pre-season so everyone can see why people who saw him play are not impress by his overall play. I want to see him in a pre-season game but in the same time I'm scare he get hurt out there.

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09-24-2010, 03:53 PM
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The guy just spent a whole season in the second best professional league in the world and held his own. Going down to junior is a ****ing joke at this point.

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09-24-2010, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
The guy just spent a whole season in the second best professional league in the world and held his own. Going down to junior is a ****ing joke at this point.
True but he also played 4-5 minutes it's not like if he was a go to guy over there.Now for me maybe I'm wrong but him playing 8-9 minutes in the AHL isn't better then him dominating the Juniors and being a go to guy

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09-24-2010, 03:58 PM
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I wouldn't complain if he went to the Q but I have had him penciled for the AHL since he said he didn't want to play in the CHL after playing in the KHL. If he agrees to go down to the Q then great but he is in a different situation and while you don't want 19 year olds telling you where they are going to play (not saying this is the case at all) but the fact is that he can make good money in the KHL so the Habs need to keep this in mind when opting to send him to the Q vs the AHL.

To me if he can grab a spot on the top 2 lines for Hamilton and play well, then he should stick with the Dogs, if he can't show enough to get quaility ice time, I'd be much more inclined to take the risk he'll depart for Russia by sending him to the Q. (it sure would be funny to see a Lefebvre-Leblanc-Avtsin line and would open some space in Hamilton in what could be a crowded group of forwards (although some will likely be ECHL bound)

If he refused to go to the Q I guess they could loan him back to the KHL, not that I want to see that but if that happens I don't think it would be a disaster. But I expect him to be in Hamilton this year in a top 6 role and do well.

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The guy just spent a whole season in the second best professional league in the world and held his own. Going down to junior is a ****ing joke at this point.
One guy that we can at least somewhat compare to is Andrei Kostitsyn. As 18 year olds, Avtsin played 30 games for Dynamo (3-6-9 +6 10 pim) and Kostitsyn played in 12 games for CSKA (0-1-1 -6 2 pim) Both were on the 4th line and saw limited ice time. Kostitsyn struggled in his own end (more like clueless from the 2 games I saw) and since his coach was the famed Viktor Tikhonov.

At 19 Kostitsyn left Russia, just like Avtsin. In Hamilton he had 66-12-11-23 +6 24 pims (coach Jarvis worked all year with Kostitsyn on his defensive game)

Not comparing them as players, just that they do have some similiar situations. Doesn't mean going to Hamilton or the Q is the answer since I don't know what's best for him. But I also wouldn't rule out other options at this point. I'd rather see the Habs go back to bringing along their prospects more slowly.


Last edited by montreal: 09-24-2010 at 05:57 PM.
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Old
09-24-2010, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
True but he also played 4-5 minutes it's not like if he was a go to guy over there.Now for me maybe I'm wrong but him playing 8-9 minutes in the AHL isn't better then him dominating the Juniors and being a go to guy
Its not his offensive skills that need work, its his overall game. Dominating the CHL is not going to turn him into a complete player. Spending time in the AHL, with an experienced defensemen coach, in a professional league is going to do much more for his game than playing on the Juniors will.

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One guy that we can at least somewhat compare to is Andrei Kostitsyn. As 18 year olds, Avtsin played 30 games for Dynamo (3-6-9 +6 10 pim) and Kostitsyn played in 12 games for CSKA (0-1-1 -6 2 pim) Both were on the 4th line and saw limited ice time. Kostitsyn struggled in his own end (more like clueless from the 2 games I saw) and since his coach was the famed Viktor Tikhonov.

At 19 Kostitsyn left Russia, just like Avtsin. In Hamilton he had 66-12-11-23 +6 24 pims (coach Jarvis worked all year with Kostitsyn on his defensive game)

Not comparing them as players, just that they do have some similiar situations. Doesn't mean going to Hamilton or the Q is the answer since I don't know what's best for him. But I also wouldn't rule out other options at this point. I'd rather see the Habs go back to bringing along their prospects more slowly.
I have no problem with bringing him along slowly, if it takes two years in Hamilton for him to be ready, then so be it. I just don't want to see him step down and play in an inferior league. I don't want to see him get by for another year playing in the CHL and playing all offense. I want to see him in Hamilton working on a complete game with Cunneyworth and the coaching staff there.

He is a professional player already, the QMJHL is not a professional league.

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09-24-2010, 04:19 PM
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I saw a highlight video of him in training camp...while others were skating hard and practicing entrances in the offensive zone...he was practicing his stick handling skills with a puck on the ice. This guy thinks he's still in Russia.
injured wrist is the reason


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09-24-2010, 04:24 PM
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I saw a highlight video of him in training camp...while others were skating hard and practicing entrances in the offensive zone...he was practicing his stick handling skills with a puck on the ice. This guy thinks he's still in Russia.
He was injured/recovering from injury at the start of the camp when that video was taken... He wasn't taking part in all of the drills... If the guy was anything but Russian people would be saying "he was injured all summer he needs time to get back to his game" but he's Russian so we get all those retarded comments on how he's a lazy Russian finesse player from people who have never seen him play apart from a youtube video where he was practicing injured.

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09-24-2010, 04:25 PM
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Telling him to play Junior = high risk he bolts back to russia.

I understand the argument saying he would benefit from playing in the CHL. But we need to be pragmatic here. A struggling Avstin in the AHL is better than a pissed-off and hearbroken Avstin in russia.

It's not like we draft guys like Avstin, and have russians come to play with us all the time. He has serious potential. You can't risk losing him just because we want to prove a point to him or plays who's your daddy. Especially since for most reports, the guy is a hard worker and really want to play here.

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