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Ales Hemsky and Rick Martin

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Old
06-07-2004, 04:43 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger12
...
It seems to be "If you don't score much but prevent a lot, or don't prevent much but score a lot...you will be in the starting lineup."

As soon as 'much' turns into 'at all', THAT'S when he [Mactavish] casts his Eye of Sauron upon your ass.
...
Even though I don't know what the 'Eye of Sauron' is ... IMHO that's really well said Digger.

Its always easy to blame the coach ... but I really have trouble faulting MacTavish for any of the Oiler woes except the powerplay. And coaches of his ilk almost always steer terrible powerplays anyways (just can't let go, i think).

On the Lowe thing ... I like him. I think he must has picked some pretty solid people to surround himself with (LaFarge once was the marketting mgr for the women's national ski team, when his wife was active there, that's not coincidence).

Mostly, when you look at the really clever fokks (IMHO) in the NHL gm spots ... most are playing to half-filled buildings [Poile, Lamouriello, Feaster] but Lowe gets out there, on radio and in person, the season ticket holders are treated with the respect they deserve. Its almost as if (gasp!) the Oilers think that its a business and actually know who their customers are! And I bet Lafarge plays a round of golf with hundreds of season-ticket holders every summer. And he asks their opinion ... maybe he doesn't give a damn what they say, I dunno, but they think he does.

All in all, if hockey is your business, and your business is in Edmonton, Lowe is a pretty good choice to have in that chair IMO.

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06-07-2004, 05:12 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igor
Even though I don't know what the 'Eye of Sauron' is ... IMHO that's really well said Digger.
LMFAO :lol :lol :lol

I mostly agree with your post - although, perhaps I'm getting the wrong message, but I think you under-rate Lowe's hockey knowledge.

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Old
06-07-2004, 05:18 PM
  #28
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Sorry, it's just the Tolkien geek in me.

As for Lowe, yeah it might've come out a bit harsher than I meant. I was thinking more about some of the trades he's made, but I'll admit when it comes to the other aspects like surrounding yourself with good people and doing your best to make sure attendance doesn't falter by literally manning the phones and doing the gladhanding, he's done well by that.

I guess I'm on a precipice with him. This next year will be critical, especially after how the Flames have done. Fair or not, season ticket holders will be making comparisons and wondering why.

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Old
06-07-2004, 05:27 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igor
Oh, aren't you wise.

Most 20 year olds in all walks of life are scrutinized. They may not be men at that age, but they should be, and they deserve to treated as if they were.

Bottom line ... I think that Hemsky is a wuss. And I don't think you don't grow out of that. I think you're born that way. Can you confirm?
now usually i like your posts igor as im a stats fanatic but this above quote kinda makes you look like an ass..... as far as the hemsky thing goes, i dont really know what to think to be honest, i think we will all have a much better idea after the next season though

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06-07-2004, 06:03 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadeddog
now usually i like your posts igor as im a stats fanatic but this above quote kinda makes you look like an ass..... as far as the hemsky thing goes, i dont really know what to think to be honest, i think we will all have a much better idea after the next season though
Well I'm sacrificing diplomacy for honesty here. The thing about you jadeddog ... you're not smart. No offense intended.

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06-07-2004, 06:12 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger12
...
As for Lowe, yeah it might've come out a bit harsher than I meant. I was thinking more about some of the trades he's made, but I'll admit when it comes to the other aspects like surrounding yourself with good people and doing your best to make sure attendance doesn't falter by literally manning the phones and doing the gladhanding, he's done well by that.

I guess I'm on a precipice with him. This next year will be critical, especially after how the Flames have done. Fair or not, season ticket holders will be making comparisons and wondering why.
While I like Lowe on the whole, but I have to say something really disappointed me lately ... he was on The Team a while ago and he said the Oilers of next year would be a '90 point team'. WTF? I thought that the Oilers were positioning themselves to BUILD after the new CBA, not stay static. Maybe he's right, he certainly knows more about the budget than us ... but Criminy, I was hoping that the bar was set just a bit higher than that.

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06-07-2004, 06:17 PM
  #32
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nice.... "your not smart".... man im glad you mentioned this cause i was gonna go back to university this fall, but really... if im not smart, i guess that i shouldn't..... whew!! i almost wasted a bunch of money man, THANKS!!!

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06-07-2004, 06:21 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igor
Well I'm sacrificing diplomacy for honesty here. The thing about you jadeddog ... you're not smart. No offense intended.
And into the abyss we go...

So much for you winning the Lady Byng.

As for bar setting, IMO the bar is set no higher than what the owners want it to be. If they're happy with a 88-92 point team that sets its budget on losing in 6 games in the first round, then that's what we'll get. At the end of the day, Lowe has to answer to them.

Perhaps Lowe's starting to get hit by the reality of being the Oilers' GM?

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Old
06-07-2004, 06:39 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger12
And into the abyss we go...

So much for you winning the Lady Byng.
Well Lowetide always has that wrapped up before the season even starts anyways :lol Maybe that's why I like player's like Moreau ... go into the corner with your stick by their ear ... deal with the consequences later.

In fairness, I don't even remember any of jadeddog's posts. He may very well be nicer than lowetide, I dunno.

Quote:
As for bar setting, IMO the bar is set no higher than what the owners want it to be. If they're happy with a 88-92 point team that sets its budget on losing in 6 games in the first round, then that's what we'll get. At the end of the day, Lowe has to answer to them.

Perhaps Lowe's starting to get hit by the reality of being the Oilers' GM?
That may very well be. All I know was that I was feeling optimistic about next year. Then after hearing Lowe speak I wasn't.

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Old
06-07-2004, 11:01 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igor
When I was about 8 years old one of my brothers bought me a Bobby Orr book for Christmas. I loved hockey then, but I wasn't much for watching the NHL on TV. Still, I read it.

I don't remember much about it at all, except that it was hardcover, black, and with a big #4 sort of pressed into the cover. And I remember that Bobby Orr seemed like a heckuva guy, real unassuming. The other thing I remember was that he really took a run at Rick Martin as a hockey player, which was completely out of character for Orr.

For those that aren't old enough, Martin played for the Sabres in the 70s and had a very good career as a scoring winger. He looked the part as well. Had some pretty terrific linemates for a stretch too though.

Anyhow, it wasn't personal ... Orr just thought that Martin wasn't a very good player, or was at least way over-rated. Its far too long ago to remember the exact words, but the gist of it is: "Rick Martin is a guy I can't understand. Every time Martin comes down the wing he makes the same move, every single time. He fakes inside and takes it wide. I don't know how he gets away with it".

Anyways, I've thought of this quote a few times when I've watched Hemsky come down the wing this year. He's the polar opposite of Martin. He just never, ever takes it wide. And in this day of video and coaches ... I find it hard to believe that there is even one defender in this league who doesn't know that.

Question is ... why? Is he chickenspit? Has he fallen in love with the highlight reel drags? Does he think he knows better than his coaches and veteran teammates? ... or are they just turning a blind eye to it?

A hard guy to figure is this Hemsky. But it's never too early to start to worry

I've always thought that the "take it wide" play belongs more in the realm of 1) the less imaginative types, esp in combo with decent strength & speed (i.e. bury your head and go wide a la Isbister) or 2) the roadrunners (i.e. Bure).

I think Hemsky defintely does not belong to the first group. As for the roadrunners, well, Hemsky certainly has speed but I think he's more of a cerebral east-west shifty type rather than someone who likes to beat ppl with flat out speed.

I also think it's simply a tendency of the typical playmaker (as opposed to a scorere or grinder). Once he crosses the blueline, a playmaker tends to cut towards the middle, go lateral, or hangs along the sideboard to buy his teammates time to get into positions and allows himself to get better view of the ice to make plays.

It would undoubtedly improve to his game if he can add the "go wide" play to his arsenal. But the fact that he's not doing it now, I wouldn't be so quick to attribute it to him being chickenspit. He's shown that he's unafraid to initiate hits and be aggressive (though he's often outmuscled). Moreover, cutting towards the middle is not exactly the safest play (just ask Lindros & Kariya).

He's probably been playing this way his entire life (i.e. trying to make the fancy plays and set up the pretty goals) before the NHL and has had too much success to bother changing his game up til now. It's just like with his lack of shooting: it'll take a while to rewire his brain.


Last edited by choppystride: 06-07-2004 at 11:14 PM.
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