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Clowe and/or Couture and/or Greiss for 2 top 4 defensemen

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Old
09-30-2010, 07:27 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Then they aren't getting a top 4 d-man, likely.
because picks and prospects are worthless...

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09-30-2010, 07:36 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Then they aren't getting a top 4 d-man, likely.
Are you kidding me? Top four d-men are regularly sent out for assets that aren't top six forwards or a team's top prospect. Meszaros, Wisniewski, and Ballard just to name a few from this off-season. History disagrees with your stance.

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09-30-2010, 07:42 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Are you kidding me? Top four d-men are regularly sent out for assets that aren't top six forwards or a team's top prospect. Meszaros, Wisniewski, and Ballard just to name a few from this off-season. History disagrees with your stance.
Not sure of the cap situation but can San Jose afford to add 2 top 4 dmen for nothing but prospects and picks?

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09-30-2010, 07:44 PM
  #54
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Old
09-30-2010, 08:00 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by TOOMUCHBREWER View Post
Not sure of the cap situation but can San Jose afford to add 2 top 4 dmen for nothing but prospects and picks?
The chances of them acquiring two of them now are slim. They can take one on now as they have about 1.6 mil in cap space. Throw in someone like Huskins' 1.7 and Greiss' 550k and there's about 3.8 mil to work with.

And if they were interested in a second one, they'd have to find a way to get rid of either Douglas Murray or Niclas Wallin and their 2.5 mil cap hit. So it's definitely conceivable, however, it's unlikely. They MIGHT go after one now but I think they're expecting Jason Demers and Niclas Wallin to share the role and for Douglas Murray to settle in better to his role with a year of experience at it under his belt.

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09-30-2010, 08:00 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Ludicrous Speed View Post
I'm not opposed to trading away any of those guys, but not for pieces that don't fill any needs such as Clowe or Greiss. Couture would be great to have, but I wouldn't trade him for Hejda, Klesla, or Tyutin if I was SJ. And as of right now, we need good defensemen before we need good forwards, our top 6 is already a logjam.
Not to play what would it take, but from a value standpoint, how would you feel about a 1st for any of those players. I agree your top 6 is a logjam with Umberger on the 3rd line (and Mayorov, Johansen, Calvert, and Straka on the way). I wouldn't want San Jose offering Couture anyway (not that I'd blame the BJs if that is who they required.

However, isn't defense in a similar situation?They have 8 NHL d-men (assuming you include Clitsome), an elite prospect in Moore, and some solid depth in Savard and Golobuef. Obviously, if Columbus is in the playoff hunt they won't likely be trading one of those guys, but if they aren't how would you feel about a 1st or Nick Petrecki/Taylor Doherty for Tyutin? What about Klesla or Hejda.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Then they aren't getting a top 4 d-man, likely.
Mersaroz for a 2nd
Wisniewski for a 3rd
Carle for Downie and Eminger
Seidenberg for Weller, Bitz, 2nd
Derek Morris for a conditional pick
Andy Sutton for a 2nd
Grebshenkov for a 2nd
Rivet for 1st, Gorges
Rivet for 2 2nds

They don't happen all the time, but top 4 d-men get traded for futures enough.

You can't tell me than our 1st and William Wrenn would draw interest for most of the players I posted. Granted some wouldn't do it, but I think some would.

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Old
09-30-2010, 08:05 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by TOOMUCHBREWER View Post
Not sure of the cap situation but can San Jose afford to add 2 top 4 dmen for nothing but prospects and picks?
If one of them were insanely cheap like Roman Polak (1.1) or Jan Hejda (2) than yes, but that isn't the most realistic scenario. However, if they were to wait to the deadline, they might be able.

Realistically, Boyle, Vlasic, Murray, Demers, Lilja, Wallin is a #1, #3, #4, #4-7 (Demers is a huge wildcard), #6/7, #6/7. If they add just one top 4 d-man at the deadline, they are in fine shape. Getting really lucky and adding a Jan Hejda type #4 now and a player Wisniewski at the deadline would give us an elite D, but we only need one to have a good defense.

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Old
09-30-2010, 08:11 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Agree.
Nothing against Girardi, or Rosi.
There was a thread during the summer; one PROPOSAL idea bandied about was a variation of

to SJ Rosi + Girardi + x (two 4ths?)

to NYR Clowe and SJ 1st.

Biggest obstacle was salary cap fit.

NYR needs to gamble on its young D to move salary cap [especially since, shocker of shockers, Sauer might actually be able to first play, then develop (the subplot he was recovering from shoulder surgery + knee injury went under the radar)], this looks good.

It's an open floor, but I would like SJ fans especially, including Hockeyball, to weigh in on this; if not the best combination please offer a variation on the theme.
Value wise, I think it's fair if you make that 1st a 2nd, and take out the "x" from the Rangers side.

Salary cap wise, it does if we trade Murray and Huskins for draft picks, and then add some cheap fowards on the bottom-6.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Dany Heatley ($7.500m) / Joe Thornton ($7.200m) / Patrick Marleau ($6.900m)
Logan Couture ($1.241m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m) / Devin Setoguchi ($1.800m)
Torrey Mitchell ($1.366m) / Jamal Mayers ($0.600m) / Jamie McGinn ($0.996m)
Scott Nichol ($0.760m) / Benn Ferriero ($0.850m) / Frazer McLaren ($0.543m)

DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.666m) / Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m)
Dan Girardi ($3.325m) / Michael Rozsival ($5.000m)
Niclas Wallin ($2.500m) / Jason Demers ($0.543m)
Derek Joslin ($0.500m)

GOALTENDERS
Antero Niittymaki ($2.000m) /Antti Niemi ($2.000m)

CARRY-OVER BONUS PENALTY: $327,500

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,720,834; BONUSES: $930,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $609,166

I don't know if the Rangers would take it though...

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Old
09-30-2010, 08:17 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOOMUCHBREWER View Post
Not sure of the cap situation but can San Jose afford to add 2 top 4 dmen for nothing but prospects and picks?
Do not plan on us getting 2 top 4 defenseman. We have Murray slotted to play with Boyle and the chances of that changing in the near future are slim.

What we really need is a top 4 to play with Vlasic. As long as we get this defenseman before the playoffs i will be happy.

If we are only going after one defenseman we can certainly afford it with picks/prospects.

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Old
09-30-2010, 08:20 PM
  #60
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RE: Sarich for anything of value, or even absolutely nothing at all.



The man is massively overpaid for what he brings to the table. A 2.0 million defenseman at best, and even that's stretching it. We don't want him. And people want Clowe for him!?!?!? Laughable.

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Old
09-30-2010, 08:23 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by matt trick View Post
If one of them were insanely cheap like Roman Polak (1.1) or Jan Hejda (2) than yes, but that isn't the most realistic scenario. However, if they were to wait to the deadline, they might be able.

Realistically, Boyle, Vlasic, Murray, Demers, Lilja, Wallin is a #1, #3, #4, #4-7 (Demers is a huge wildcard), #6/7, #6/7. If they add just one top 4 d-man at the deadline, they are in fine shape. Getting really lucky and adding a Jan Hejda type #4 now and a player Wisniewski at the deadline would give us an elite D, but we only need one to have a good defense.
Not much interest in Wisniewski.

But what would we need to give up for Jan Hejda?

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09-30-2010, 08:24 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPavs8Clutchy View Post
Value wise, I think it's fair if you make that 1st a 2nd, and take out the "x" from the Rangers side.

Salary cap wise, it does if we trade Murray and Huskins for draft picks, and then add some cheap fowards on the bottom-6.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Dany Heatley ($7.500m) / Joe Thornton ($7.200m) / Patrick Marleau ($6.900m)
Logan Couture ($1.241m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m) / Devin Setoguchi ($1.800m)
Torrey Mitchell ($1.366m) / Jamal Mayers ($0.600m) / Jamie McGinn ($0.996m)
Scott Nichol ($0.760m) / Benn Ferriero ($0.850m) / Frazer McLaren ($0.543m)

DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.666m) / Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m)
Dan Girardi ($3.325m) / Michael Rozsival ($5.000m)
Niclas Wallin ($2.500m) / Jason Demers ($0.543m)
Derek Joslin ($0.500m)

GOALTENDERS
Antero Niittymaki ($2.000m) /Antti Niemi ($2.000m)

CARRY-OVER BONUS PENALTY: $327,500

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,720,834; BONUSES: $930,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $609,166

I don't know if the Rangers would take it though...
Id rather have the current lineup than that....

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Old
09-30-2010, 08:27 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by DuckEatinShark View Post
Not much interest in Wisniewski.

But what would we need to give up for Jan Hejda?
Id rather have Wisniewski

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Old
09-30-2010, 08:32 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckEatinShark View Post
Not much interest in Wisniewski.

But what would we need to give up for Jan Hejda?
No interest in a guy who plays 23 minutes a night, lead his team, and was among the league leaders in SHTOI, hits, fights, has a heavy point shot, is decent defensively, considered a leader and is mobile? Why not? Sure he has his occasional (okay maybe a bit more than occasional brain farts).

My guess on Hejda would be a 1st at the deadline. The way I see it by the next year a spot or two needs to be cleared off that blue-line, and with Klesla, Methot, and Commdore signed (they too could be traded of course) the team has a pretty good group of defensive d-men. Not sure, they'll be willing to commit 3.5-4 million to another, though I think they'd prefer him than either of the other two. Hejda is very good defensively, but he lacks the other assets several of the other potentially available players have. On the flip side, there is also a possibility they are only interested in keeping Hejda. I am not sure where there d-men lay in terms of value (except that Moore is likely at the top).

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09-30-2010, 08:39 PM
  #65
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I would do Gunnarson for Couture.

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Old
09-30-2010, 08:48 PM
  #66
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I would do Gunnarson for Couture.
I'm sure you would.

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Old
09-30-2010, 08:50 PM
  #67
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Couture
Joslin
Mcginn

for two of Beauchemin, Gunnarsson or Kaberle.

That way SJ keeps Clowe and their top 6 intact.

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Old
09-30-2010, 08:56 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by luiginb View Post
So

Ryane Clowe - 28 y.o. (3y/3.6mil)
Logan Couture - 21 y.o. (2y/1.2mil)
Thomas Greiss - 24 y.o. (1y/0.5mil)

for 2 top 4 defenseman < 35y.o. (with not more than 8 mil/year between them)

right shot OD
left shot DD

Any team in the league that would have this to offer/would need this young up-and-coming package?
Atlanta can accomodate this request, they can offer Ron Hainsey and Johnny Oduya (total $8m) and the team needs more scoring power up front with Byfuglien moving to defense.
Hainsey can run the PP and be an offensive defenseman. Oduya can be a defensive defenseman, although he is no slouch at moving the puck. And both of them played very well as a pair towards the end of last season.

Potential lines:
Kane - Antropov - Bergfors
Ladd - Little - Clowe
Couture - Peverley - Dawes
Eager - Thorburn - Pettersen

Enstrom-Bogosian
Byfuglien - Kulda
Valabik - Sopel

Mason-Pavelec

Modin-Boulton-Zubarev-Slater(inj)

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09-30-2010, 09:00 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Peter Sidorkiewicz View Post
Atlanta can accomodate this request, they can offer Ron Hainsey and Johnny Oduya (total $8m) and the team needs more scoring power up front with Byfuglien moving to defense.
Hainsey can run the PP and be an offensive defenseman. Oduya can be a defensive defenseman, although he is no slouch at moving the puck. And both of them played very well as a pair towards the end of last season.

Potential lines:
Kane - Antropov - Bergfors
Ladd - Little - Clowe
Couture - Peverley - Dawes
Eager - Thorburn - Pettersen

Enstrom-Bogosian
Byfuglien - Kulda
Valabik - Sopel

Mason-Pavelec

Modin-Boulton-Zubarev-Slater(inj)


We'd never, ever do that. You want a package like this? Think Enstrom+Oduya, not Hainsey+Oduya.

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Old
09-30-2010, 09:00 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caius Merlyn View Post
Couture
Joslin
Mcginn

for two of Beauchemin, Gunnarsson or Kaberle.

That way SJ keeps Clowe and their top 6 intact.
The Sharks aren't trading Logan Couture either. People need to stop these posts about trading anyone in our top six or Logan Couture...it's not going to happen.

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09-30-2010, 09:04 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by bringthecuphome View Post
I would do Gunnarson for Couture.
The Sharks damn sure wouldn't.

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09-30-2010, 09:08 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by matt trick View Post
No interest in a guy who plays 23 minutes a night, lead his team, and was among the league leaders in SHTOI, hits, fights, has a heavy point shot, is decent defensively, considered a leader and is mobile? Why not? Sure he has his occasional (okay maybe a bit more than occasional brain farts).

My guess on Hejda would be a 1st at the deadline. The way I see it by the next year a spot or two needs to be cleared off that blue-line, and with Klesla, Methot, and Commdore signed (they too could be traded of course) the team has a pretty good group of defensive d-men. Not sure, they'll be willing to commit 3.5-4 million to another, though I think they'd prefer him than either of the other two. Hejda is very good defensively, but he lacks the other assets several of the other potentially available players have. On the flip side, there is also a possibility they are only interested in keeping Hejda. I am not sure where there d-men lay in terms of value (except that Moore is likely at the top).
That's why. It always bothered me when Error-hoff was leading a rush because I knew a brain-fart that would hurt our team was impending. I'd much rather have players that are more responsible offensively and defensively.

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09-30-2010, 09:10 PM
  #73
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I would do Gunnarson for Couture.

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Old
09-30-2010, 09:50 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by JPavs8Clutchy View Post


We'd never, ever do that. You want a package like this? Think Enstrom+Oduya, not Hainsey+Oduya.
Enstrom is a no. 1 defenseman. What makes you think you can get him for a 2nd liner and a kid with potential. Clowe and Couture combined isn't going to command Enstrom, and you have the nerve to laugh at my proposal.

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09-30-2010, 09:58 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPavs8Clutchy View Post
Value wise, I think it's fair if you make that 1st a 2nd, and take out the "x" from the Rangers side.

Salary cap wise, it does if we trade Murray and Huskins for draft picks, and then add some cheap fowards on the bottom-6.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Dany Heatley ($7.500m) / Joe Thornton ($7.200m) / Patrick Marleau ($6.900m)
Logan Couture ($1.241m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m) / Devin Setoguchi ($1.800m)
Torrey Mitchell ($1.366m) / Jamal Mayers ($0.600m) / Jamie McGinn ($0.996m)
Scott Nichol ($0.760m) / Benn Ferriero ($0.850m) / Frazer McLaren ($0.543m)

DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.666m) / Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m)
Dan Girardi ($3.325m) / Michael Rozsival ($5.000m)
Niclas Wallin ($2.500m) / Jason Demers ($0.543m)
Derek Joslin ($0.500m)

GOALTENDERS
Antero Niittymaki ($2.000m) /Antti Niemi ($2.000m)

CARRY-OVER BONUS PENALTY: $327,500

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,720,834; BONUSES: $930,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $609,166

I don't know if the Rangers would take it though...
Would need to be a first. Either that, or add in a decent prospect.

I'm not a Girardi fan, but the Rangers love him and I think he has a lot more value around the league than I give him credit for.

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