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Update: Gudbranson rejects contract, back to juniors

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Old
10-05-2010, 05:13 PM
  #51
TimHortons
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I want to hear what DT says about this whether it was financially or personnel related.

Gudbranson was not going to be the messiah this year but I still get the feeling that management is looking for another high pick his year, while attempting to establish an identity.

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10-05-2010, 05:13 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by whoisournextbure View Post
no dude the guy is very versatile.. kind of like montador, can play both winger and d. and i have missed montador a lot.

i wanted guds to go back and tear up the OHL, and then own the world juniors.. my wish shall be done
I believe that if Guds earned a spot on the team and our budget doesn't allow him to have a roster spot then that's pretty unfair.

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10-05-2010, 05:21 PM
  #53
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Great way to start off with Gudbranson...

This could very well create some animosity between him and the team, and eventually lead down a Bouwmeester-esque road.

This is getting pretty disheartening after all the optimism this summer.

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10-05-2010, 05:47 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimHortons View Post
I want to hear what DT says about this whether it was financially or personnel related.

Gudbranson was not going to be the messiah this year but I still get the feeling that management is looking for another high pick his year, while attempting to establish an identity.
Something must be done, now identity of the team is Tallon.

JOL

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10-05-2010, 05:49 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Holy Jokinen View Post
Why is everyone complaining about this?

If he signs this year, makes the team for the whole year and ends up leaving at 25, we complain that the org rushed him.

If he signs this year and plays 9 NHL games and gets sent back down, there's no significant difference.

He didn't sign, and he'll go to the OHL to tear it up and hopefully get a pantload of PP time.

No harm, no foul.
We don't know what's going to happen with new CBA, maybe there will be total free agency. Another thing, what if Gudbranson doesn't sign next summer and goes back to draft in 2012?

JOL

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10-05-2010, 05:54 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by mind_the_gap View Post
We can worry about that in 2017.
There is NO reason why he should be in the NHL. Sure, he looked good, but everyone who saw him said he could benefit by another year in Juniors. Plus, this team isn't going anywhere. He'd be wasting his talent on this team while burning a year of his contract.

I just don't get the "massive fail" everyone is talking about in regards to this.

The grabner thing is another story, but this is fine in my book.

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10-05-2010, 05:54 PM
  #57
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Another bad move by management. I really don't feel like this kid is going to benefit at all from another year at juniors. As mentioned before as well, this could hurt the relationship between him and the team.

I ask though, how could there really be contractual disagreement. The kid is a top-3 pick, throw the max at him and move on. It's 900K for peat sakes, how cheap is this team? He looked really solid in pre-season and I feel like the Montreal game alone should have had us throwing the money at him. He's the real deal, THIS is the Pronger we've been looking for, but again we have managed to mess this up somehow. (I'm not saying he'd play like Pronger this season, but the more NHL experience the better).

Now what does our core look like now on the back-end?

McCabe-Kulikov
Garrison-Wideman
Allen-Paetsch

Weaver

Our defense is going to be terrible this year. (not even Garrison could help that LOL)

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Old
10-05-2010, 05:56 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Southern Hockey View Post
Great way to start off with Gudbranson...

This could very well create some animosity between him and the team, and eventually lead down a Bouwmeester-esque road.

This is getting pretty disheartening after all the optimism this summer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxcLjA6ZmnI

EDIT: Not sure how to embed video.

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10-05-2010, 05:57 PM
  #59
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Can't help but think Tallon wanted him in juniors and used this as a ploy. Think he's tanking on purpose.

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10-05-2010, 06:04 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Rattrick View Post
Can't help but think Tallon wanted him in juniors and used this as a ploy. Think he's tanking on purpose.

Advance to the Rear!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCkxuOX516k

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Old
10-05-2010, 06:10 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rattrick View Post
Can't help but think Tallon wanted him in juniors and used this as a ploy. Think he's tanking on purpose.
Would not be surprised at all -- we need that franchiser up front.

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10-05-2010, 06:28 PM
  #62
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Guds was good in some games and mediocre in others. He didn't pull a Santorelli and force anyone off the roster though. We don't have a pressing need for him right now and he has a lot of offense he can go ahead and develop better in juniors. Two goals total last year is pretty sad considering what a booming shot the kid has, so hopefully he can improve on it this season. All the press about how awesome he was from PBD IMO is just PR for the few fans left to make the organization look great for picking him so high. I know he had a good game or two but h wasn't going to be a major contributor IMO and Weaver is a better option in the NHL at this point than Guds. I like the move of sending him back though I would have enjoyed watching him on the panthers this year had he stayed.

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Old
10-05-2010, 06:34 PM
  #63
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I don't mind him going to juniors to mature, but for that reason because they couldn't afford him is ridiculous and after this and the Grabner incident, I'm getting a little agitated with the way things are being handled in the front office. I feel bad for Gudbranson since he really tried so hard in camp and during the pre-season, was probably stoked to get a spot on a real NHL squad, and now is getting his hopes up.

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Old
10-05-2010, 06:53 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Jokinen View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxcLjA6ZmnI

EDIT: Not sure how to embed video.
If you want to embed a you tube video you hit the you tube button and get [YT][YT]

then you take your youtube link and put in the info after the = sign (FxcLjA6ZmnI) between the [YT][YT]

But back to Gudbranson the disappointing thing is that the new motto is you have to earn your spot. He earned his spot and was told we can't or won't pay you thats the unacceptable part. I hope they didn't poison their relationship with him.

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Old
10-05-2010, 06:59 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
That's pretty bad. He could make close to what, 3 or 4 mill with bonuses?
3.4M is the highest he would have made, being a #3 pick. My guess is he wanted around 3M or over and they wouldn't do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boooooth10 View Post
I'm glad he's being sent back to the OHL. It gives him time to work on his offensive game.
Yeah. This is fortunate. Even though I don't like how Santos was talking about it yesterday, it sounded like they would lowball him and if he didn't accept then oh well, he goes back to junior for another year. But it worked out for the best. When Gud comes in next summer he's going to be great.

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Old
10-05-2010, 07:05 PM
  #66
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"Pay that man his money"
thats a classic.

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10-05-2010, 07:07 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
I like this move ; though the reason why it happened is so us.

It's like going to a Brothel and forgetting to bring any money. Unless you're in Utah of course ...

Interesting though. 6 of the Top 12 picks from the draft are getting at least the Nine game tryout. Would be 7, but our budget is smaller than my trouser armour. And my Trouser Armour isn't big.

GP ; It's probably not over the signing Bonus. There are other Bonuses involved which can earn him up to about 3.5 Million i think. Im unsure of what these Bonuses are, but its highley unlikely to be the signing bonus that is the reason for this
Yeah, I don't think it's the signing bonus either. There are performance bonuses or whatever else added onto it. Some bonuses on an ELC are as simple as getting paid each day you are on the roster. Most rookies probably don't reach all of their bonuses, but you still have to account for it in your budget. Also, I'm not sure about this year, but with this screwed up CBA and them renewing it for 1 year every year I can't follow it anymore but some years all the contract bonuses have to be paid up front.

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10-05-2010, 07:18 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by jol View Post
We don't know what's going to happen with new CBA, maybe there will be total free agency. Another thing, what if Gudbranson doesn't sign next summer and goes back to draft in 2012?

JOL
That just won't happen, he'll sign. Firstly, who's the last top 5 pick that wasn't signed by the team that originally drafted them? It'll get done.

He'll make the team next summer without a doubt, and then what's he going to do? Refuse to sign a contract and go back to junior for another year which he definitely doesn't want to do? Or sign. He'll sign.

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10-05-2010, 07:23 PM
  #69
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No chance are those the bonuses. I'm almost positive top picks can earn a 3 or 4 million in bonuses.
Hey, Canucks fan here in peace, just trying to help clarify the situation for you.

In short, you are correct. The maximum a rookie can make in a year comes out to 3.75 million.

That number is broken down as follows:

Maximum base contract: 900k

Up to 10% of the base contract may be paid to the player up front and constitute a signing bonus. This signing bonus does not increase the total amount paid to the player, it just affects when the player gets the money.

Maximum group "A" bonuses: 850k

These bonuses are mainly for being a solid contributor on your team. The categories for which you can qualify are as follows:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Group A Bonuses, Defensemen
1. Ice Time [aggregate or per game]: Player must be among top four (4) defensemen on the Club [minimum 42 Regular Season games played by Player and comparison group]. An Entry-Level SPC may contain a provision for both aggregate and per-game ice time; however, the maximum a player may earn for ice time bonuses is $212,500]

2. Goals: 10 goal minimum

3. Assists: 25 assist minimum

4. Points: 40 point minimum

5. Points per Game: 0.49 points per game [minimum 42 Regular Season games played]

6. Plus-Minus Rating: Among the top three (3) defensemen on the Club [minimum 42 Regular Season games played by Player and comparison group]

7. Blocked Shots: Among the top two (2) defensemen on the Club [minimum 42 Regular Season games played by Player and comparison group]

8. End of Season NHL All-Rookie Team

9. NHL All-Star Game [selected to play or plays]

10. NHL All-Star Game MVP
Source: http://www.nhlscap.com/Exhibit5.htm#Sched_A-Def

Note that each bonus the player hits is usually* worth $212,500 and the player can earn a maximum of $850,000 dollars from these bonuses. So if the player hits 4 of them or 10 of them he'll earn the same $850,000.

* Teams can choose to pay less than this amount but it appears to be pretty rare.

Maximum group "B" bonuses: 2 million

This category includes bonuses that are generally pretty hard to get. They include being top-10 in goals, points, assists, etc.

It's up to the team and the player to determine exactly how much a player would get for reaching one of these bonuses; Malkin's ELC was leaked awhile back and it was set up so that he received the full 2 million if he happened to hit any one of his group B bonuses.

Total possible salary and cap hit, including bonuses: 3.75 million

Hope that helped clear things up a little bit.

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Old
10-05-2010, 07:24 PM
  #70
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Where's Great8Cam? We could use some inside information here.

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10-05-2010, 07:24 PM
  #71
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omg this has got to be the stupidest thing to cry about as fans. who cares if guds plays a year in the juniors. it will give him time to work on his game and saying he has nothing to work on or wont benefit from the time there is retarded. he has tons of holes in his game. he is the future, but not the present. plus this gives us an extra year before we have to pay him a much bigger contract.

and i keep reading that he earned a spot. no he didnt. he may have proven he can hang in the nhl, but that is not the same as earning a spot. imo the only reason people are crying about this is because they want the future and they want it right now and they think guds is it. well tough luck but DT is gonna do the right thing and not waste a year off of guds elc.

also, this allows one of the other dmen we have logjammed in the system (which is a good thing as it creates competition) to step up and have a good year much like seidenberg did and therefore become trade bait to further stock pile more picks. and if that doesnt happen, then it means our dmen will have played like poop and we will be staring at a high pick again next year, either of which is a good outcome.

all in all there is nothing lost by this and everything to be gained.

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10-05-2010, 07:27 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
Yeah, I don't think it's the signing bonus either. There are performance bonuses or whatever else added onto it. Some bonuses on an ELC are as simple as getting paid each day you are on the roster. Most rookies probably don't reach all of their bonuses, but you still have to account for it in your budget. Also, I'm not sure about this year, but with this screwed up CBA and them renewing it for 1 year every year I can't follow it anymore but some years all the contract bonuses have to be paid up front.
No, this is not a rule. Bonuses are not paid until they're hit.

I believe what you're thinking of is the bonus cushion. The bonus cushion is just a provision in the CBA that allows you to go over the cap with bonuses. There are some other rules that go along with that but they aren't really important here.

This year the bonus cushion will be in effect because the CBA was renewed for next year. Next year the bonus cushion will not be in effect and any rookies will have their full bonuses count against the cap, even though most of them won't reach a lot of their bonuses.

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10-05-2010, 07:32 PM
  #73
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omg this has got to be the stupidest thing to cry about as fans. who cares if guds plays a year in the juniors. it will give him time to work on his game and saying he has nothing to work on or wont benefit from the time there is retarded. he has tons of holes in his game. he is the future, but not the present. plus this gives us an extra year before we have to pay him a much bigger contract.

and i keep reading that he earned a spot. no he didnt. he may have proven he can hang in the nhl, but that is not the same as earning a spot. imo the only reason people are crying about this is because they want the future and they want it right now and they think guds is it. well tough luck but DT is gonna do the right thing and not waste a year off of guds elc.

also, this allows one of the other dmen we have logjammed in the system (which is a good thing as it creates competition) to step up and have a good year much like seidenberg did and therefore become trade bait to further stock pile more picks. and if that doesnt happen, then it means our dmen will have played like poop and we will be staring at a high pick again next year, either of which is a good outcome.

all in all there is nothing lost by this and everything to be gained.
Agreed, Gud wasn't even a top 5 d-man in the OHL last season, maybe not even top 10. He will definitely benefit from another year in junior.

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10-05-2010, 07:34 PM
  #74
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No, this is not a rule. Bonuses are not paid until they're hit.

I believe what you're thinking of is the bonus cushion. The bonus cushion is just a provision in the CBA that allows you to go over the cap with bonuses. There are some other rules that go along with that but they aren't really important here.

This year the bonus cushion will be in effect because the CBA was renewed for next year. Next year the bonus cushion will not be in effect and any rookies will have their full bonuses count against the cap, even though most of them won't reach a lot of their bonuses.
Oh, nevermind, that's what I was thinking of. I'm definitely not a capologist. lol

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10-05-2010, 07:38 PM
  #75
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Oh, nevermind, that's what I was thinking of. I'm definitely not a capologist. lol
Not a problem at all. The CBA is pretty much a big confusing mess and most media don't understand a thing about it. It's kind of hard for the average fan to educate himself on it when the guys writing the articles are just spreading misinformation.

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