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Update: Gudbranson rejects contract, back to juniors

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Old
10-06-2010, 10:15 AM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KittysGotClaws View Post
I'm absolutely not on board with getting a top 3 pick. If the team starts out 2-14, of course, bring out the tanks. But we're all 0-0 right now. I wouldn't have season tickets if I wanted this team to fail. I worry that if we win game one, people will say "darn, can't even fail right." I know the prospects of making the playoffs are poor (I even picked us to finish 14th in the East), and I understand that another top pick will help the franchise, but in a salary cap era where dynasties are practically impossible to build up for more than a year or two, if you offer me the 8th seed right now, I take it in a heart beat. I was 11 the last time we made it and it's enough.
I understand your opinion, and there is logic behind it, but even if we were able to sneak into the playoffs, we are not built for a long playoff run. This team would be in MUCH better position if we were able to land a Larsson or Couturier, and go into next offseason with a HUGE amount of cap space, assuming that Tallon is allowed to spend some of it Yes, we can question the Grabner/Gudbranson moves, but Tallon has proven he can build a winner. If we can grab one of those two prospects I mentioned, we would be a serious playoff contender not too long from now.

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10-06-2010, 10:16 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
The upset is not the end result but the way it was handled.
You tell the player if he plays well in camp he has a spot.
He gives it all includinging barely escaping a fractured orbital bone for the team, something rarely seen the last 10 years.
The head coach comes out and states unequivocally he earned a spot and at least a 9 game chance.
Then we dont sign him. Its disgraceful.

I dont understand the not upset.
Perfect synopsis. These are my exact sentiments.

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10-06-2010, 10:37 AM
  #103
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The coach is not the GM, so you can't use what DeBour says.

Also, we don't know how far things were off... Gud's agent could have been asking for the world... Hall and seguin got HUGE bonuses added into their deals... the drop off from 2 to 3 was big as far as ability, then it should also be in salary.

I have an idea, lets find out the whole story before we condemn the team once again.

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10-06-2010, 10:56 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
I understand your opinion, and there is logic behind it, but even if we were able to sneak into the playoffs, we are not built for a long playoff run. This team would be in MUCH better position if we were able to land a Larsson or Couturier, and go into next offseason with a HUGE amount of cap space, assuming that Tallon is allowed to spend some of it Yes, we can question the Grabner/Gudbranson moves, but Tallon has proven he can build a winner. If we can grab one of those two prospects I mentioned, we would be a serious playoff contender not too long from now.
As a STH, it seems like you're saying that all the STH's who had to sit through the garbage that was last season and this entire past decade should have to watch a season where we might not even reach 70 points?

Who's to say we even rebuild right? Have we even learned anything from how we horribly mishandled back to back #1 picks in 2002 and 2003? And even though we'll have to spend money, will we spend it to get some real talent down here, or will it be more signings of journeymen looking for a retirement home or 3rd liners we pass off as top 6 players?

I agree with the previous poster. If I have a choice between playoffs or no playoffs, I absolutely take the playoffs. If we're out of the race, then I hope we get Couturier, but not before the season has even started

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10-06-2010, 11:15 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by panthersfan751 View Post
As a STH, it seems like you're saying that all the STH's who had to sit through the garbage that was last season and this entire past decade should have to watch a season where we might not even reach 70 points?

Who's to say we even rebuild right? Have we even learned anything from how we horribly mishandled back to back #1 picks in 2002 and 2003? And even though we'll have to spend money, will we spend it to get some real talent down here, or will it be more signings of journeymen looking for a retirement home or 3rd liners we pass off as top 6 players?

I agree with the previous poster. If I have a choice between playoffs or no playoffs, I absolutely take the playoffs. If we're out of the race, then I hope we get Couturier, but not before the season has even started
You absolutely cannot go by what has gone on in the past. If you do, you will have no faith in the future, or in making any type of changes that might seem similar to years past. There is a whole new design firm in charge, and going by Tallon's history, I think we have a better chance than not at building this the right way. We will never be a to-the-cap spending team, and the only way we will survive is with timely trades, opportunistic drafting, and the right UFA signings. This team, its core, is young, and we are only a few pieces away from creating a core that can be a perennial playoff contender. I would much rather see us get a Larsson or Couturier, instead of getting to the eight seed, and losing. Why mortgage the future, when its clear we arent built to hoist the cup just yet.

BTW...I was a season ticket holder for the Panthers for nine years, from 2000 until I moved to Greece, so I know exactly what every Panther fan is feeling. I witnessed every dreadful season, sitting in my seat for 99% of those games for the whole nine years, and now I pay 90 euros so I can watch them here in Greece. I know the pain, but taking Atlanta from a few years back as a prime example, I would much rather get Larsson or Couturier, than make it to the playoffs this season, and then question when we will make it again.

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10-06-2010, 11:28 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
You absolutely cannot go by what has gone on in the past. If you do, you will have no faith in the future, or in making any type of changes that might seem similar to years past. There is a whole new design firm in charge, and going by Tallon's history, I think we have a better chance than not at building this the right way. We will never be a to-the-cap spending team, and the only way we will survive is with timely trades, opportunistic drafting, and the right UFA signings. This team, its core, is young, and we are only a few pieces away from creating a core that can be a perennial playoff contender. I would much rather see us get a Larsson or Couturier, instead of getting to the eight seed, and losing. Why mortgage the future, when its clear we arent built to hoist the cup just yet.

BTW...I was a season ticket holder for the Panthers for nine years, from 2000 until I moved to Greece, so I know exactly what every Panther fan is feeling. I witnessed every dreadful season, sitting in my seat for 99% of those games for the whole nine years, and now I pay 90 euros so I can watch them here in Greece. I know the pain, but taking Atlanta from a few years back as a prime example, I would much rather get Larsson or Couturier, than make it to the playoffs this season, and then question when we will make it again.
I guess you're right. It's just so frustrating watching this team though year after year not being able to get the job done. I had a lot of hope Tallon would change things, but what happened with Grabner and Gudbranson doesn't make me feel good. Hopefully long-term they turn out to be good choices, but right now, they don't inspire much confidence.

This next offseason will determine whether we'll win a Cup in the near future or continue the playoff drought. Tallon will have incredible freedom with roster space, money, and draft picks to remake this organization. Hopefully he drafts Couturier and brings in quality FA's. I hope he's up to the task.

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10-06-2010, 12:08 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by panthersfan751 View Post
I guess you're right. It's just so frustrating watching this team though year after year not being able to get the job done. I had a lot of hope Tallon would change things, but what happened with Grabner and Gudbranson doesn't make me feel good. Hopefully long-term they turn out to be good choices, but right now, they don't inspire much confidence.

This next offseason will determine whether we'll win a Cup in the near future or continue the playoff drought. Tallon will have incredible freedom with roster space, money, and draft picks to remake this organization. Hopefully he drafts Couturier and brings in quality FA's. I hope he's up to the task.
thing is, you can say the same for many teams. there's just never a guarantee, even with tallon. he will make mistakes and even if he didn't, there'd be no guarantee of a cup. check out this article written by bret hedican (http://www.wired.com/playbook/2010/1...hip-chemistry/). makes you realize just how difficult, temperamental and unpredictable the GM job is; you could have the "perfect" roster and still not achieve your goal.

i don't think next offseason will determine much, to be honest. we HAVE quality vets signed as FAs here now. in terms of bang for buck, we've done pretty well. whoever we bring in this offseason will likely not be around past 2-3 years, i.e., when this new team's window could potentially begin to open. what *could* be a big factor is getting a top pick this year or next. really, when you're down, you need to be *doowwwwn* and stockpile talent/assets.

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10-06-2010, 12:17 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panthersfan751 View Post
I guess you're right. It's just so frustrating watching this team though year after year not being able to get the job done. I had a lot of hope Tallon would change things, but what happened with Grabner and Gudbranson doesn't make me feel good. Hopefully long-term they turn out to be good choices, but right now, they don't inspire much confidence.

This next offseason will determine whether we'll win a Cup in the near future or continue the playoff drought. Tallon will have incredible freedom with roster space, money, and draft picks to remake this organization. Hopefully he drafts Couturier and brings in quality FA's. I hope he's up to the task.
While these past few days have been a bit dissapointing to us fans, we dont know what goes on behind closed doors. I believe we have the right man for the job, and I feel that we are starting to create a good talent pool here, and with another solid draft, we can really see a bright future ahead. I refuse to compare what has transpired in years past to what Tallon is doing now, just because Keenan, Martin, and Sexton have no resume, GM wise, compared to Tallon.

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thing is, you can say the same for many teams. there's just never a guarantee, even with tallon. he will make mistakes and even if he didn't, there'd be no guarantee of a cup. check out this article written by bret hedican (http://www.wired.com/playbook/2010/1...hip-chemistry/). makes you realize just how difficult, temperamental and unpredictable the GM job is; you could have the "perfect" roster and still not achieve your goal.

i don't think next offseason will determine much, to be honest. we HAVE quality vets signed as FAs here now. in terms of bang for buck, we've done pretty well. whoever we bring in this offseason will likely not be around past 2-3 years, i.e., when this new team's window could potentially begin to open. what *could* be a big factor is getting a top pick this year or next. really, when you're down, you need to be *doowwwwn* and stockpile talent/assets.
I think next offseason will be a step for us to get back to the playoffs. If we can land Couturier or Larsson, then adding the right free agents could thrust us into a playoff spot. With Couturier or Larsson, and Markstrom's first year, next season should be a transition year. The season after next is where I think we would start to make some noise. Tallon can go into that offseason with a plan to add the finishing pieces, and let the talent and youth we have take us there.

I know that another year, at least, sounds much, but I think its well worth the wait. I just feel that a core of Couturier or Larsson, Markstrom, Frolik, Weiss, Booth, Kulikov, Guds, Ellerby, Garisson, even Wideman, and with the right pick ups in free agency, this team can take that big step forward.

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10-06-2010, 12:39 PM
  #109
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we are going to tank...


so..



hard...

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10-06-2010, 12:53 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
I think next offseason will be a step for us to get back to the playoffs. If we can land Couturier or Larsson, then adding the right free agents could thrust us into a playoff spot. With Couturier or Larsson, and Markstrom's first year, next season should be a transition year. The season after next is where I think we would start to make some noise. Tallon can go into that offseason with a plan to add the finishing pieces, and let the talent and youth we have take us there.

I know that another year, at least, sounds much, but I think its well worth the wait. I just feel that a core of Couturier or Larsson, Markstrom, Frolik, Weiss, Booth, Kulikov, Guds, Ellerby, Garisson, even Wideman, and with the right pick ups in free agency, this team can take that big step forward.
i don't think so. we HAVE the right free agents now. dvo, stiller, reino? they've all come in and done what's been asked. you aren't going to get any better than that, we know that by now. what's missing is a cohesive identity and/or some additional scoring to get back into the mix. i don't think that's going to come by way of FA this offseason. i know it's not, actually. either of those top picks won't change our fortunes in their first year either. so i think you need to be a little more realistic.

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10-06-2010, 01:04 PM
  #111
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i don't think so. we HAVE the right free agents now. dvo, stiller, reino? they've all come in and done what's been asked. you aren't going to get any better than that, we know that by now. what's missing is a cohesive identity and/or some additional scoring to get back into the mix. i don't think that's going to come by way of FA this offseason. i know it's not, actually. either of those top picks won't change our fortunes in their first year either. so i think you need to be a little more realistic.
We should be able to sign a very good forward next offseason to help in the scoring department, which you mentioned as an area of need.

There's a lot of money coming off the books after this season.

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10-06-2010, 01:07 PM
  #112
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i don't think so. we HAVE the right free agents now. dvo, stiller, reino? they've all come in and done what's been asked. you aren't going to get any better than that, we know that by now. what's missing is a cohesive identity and/or some additional scoring to get back into the mix. i don't think that's going to come by way of FA this offseason. i know it's not, actually. either of those top picks won't change our fortunes in their first year either. so i think you need to be a little more realistic.
I am being realistic Zero. Notice how I mentioned the season after next being a transition year. If I came off as stating next season, then that wasnt were I was getting at. The season after next (two seasons after this one) is where we can really see a push for the playoffs. If we land one of Larsson/Couturier, go through a season with one of them, along with Markstrom and company, THEN go out and add that Stillman, Dvorak, etc., then that is when we have a shot.

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10-06-2010, 01:16 PM
  #113
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i don't think we have the right free agents now, per say,

your right on the mark.. we need an identity.. and we need some players..

i think everyone is trying to place hope on a player.. because i mean.. what do we have left? the hotdogs they sell at the bank atlantic center?

but i mean look at colorado.. after the draft..

i did'nt really like the grabs deal.. but in the end of the day he did'nt make it.. and we need grit players..i really wanted to see him on the ice but what can you do..no roster spot..

gubs i not to worried about.. another year in the OHL is good for him.. but it kind leaves an impression on how they handled the contract.. i would rather them not mention any contract and just send him..prove to players that you have to earn a spot..make him work hard to improve..but they said they gave him a contract offer.. and he rejected it... because of contract issues? it just leaves a weird gap .. and you can't deny it..

back to reality..


TANKING.. SO... HARD...

it's all in the plan..

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10-06-2010, 01:43 PM
  #114
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We should be able to sign a very good forward next offseason to help in the scoring department, which you mentioned as an area of need.

There's a lot of money coming off the books after this season.
sure, but do you think we're going to get a very good forward to come in at this time? at least not without massively overpaying? i don't think that's how the franchise is going to turn around. it's certainly not how tallon's said he's going to build the roster. a trade or two using D/G assets like the ballard/grabner deal to try to bring in some scoring? maybe.

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I am being realistic Zero. Notice how I mentioned the season after next being a transition year. If I came off as stating next season, then that wasnt were I was getting at. The season after next (two seasons after this one) is where we can really see a push for the playoffs. If we land one of Larsson/Couturier, go through a season with one of them, along with Markstrom and company, THEN go out and add that Stillman, Dvorak, etc., then that is when we have a shot.
yes, that's what it sounded like when i first read it. but still, the reality is that neither of those two picks are being heralded as a certain 1st year NHLer yet. there's still a strong possibility that even if we were to land one of them, they'd spend another year elsewhere. even if they DO make the roster, a heck of a lot has to fall into place. look at how poorly the lightning did despite stamkos' breakout year last year.

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10-06-2010, 02:13 PM
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Peters got traded, so no one was left to defend Gundranson from Moen. That is basically why he is going back to the AHL.

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10-06-2010, 02:25 PM
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Peters got traded, so no one was left to defend Gundranson from Moen. That is basically why he is going back to the AHL.
OHL, actually.

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10-06-2010, 02:26 PM
  #117
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Peters got traded, so no one was left to defend Gundranson from Moen. That is basically why he is going back to the AHL.
HARHARHAR.

You are too funny. Oh and your last sentence makes 0 sense.

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10-06-2010, 02:28 PM
  #118
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sure, but do you think we're going to get a very good forward to come in at this time? at least not without massively overpaying? i don't think that's how the franchise is going to turn around. it's certainly not how tallon's said he's going to build the roster. a trade or two using D/G assets like the ballard/grabner deal to try to bring in some scoring? maybe.



yes, that's what it sounded like when i first read it. but still, the reality is that neither of those two picks are being heralded as a certain 1st year NHLer yet. there's still a strong possibility that even if we were to land one of them, they'd spend another year elsewhere. even if they DO make the roster, a heck of a lot has to fall into place. look at how poorly the lightning did despite stamkos' breakout year last year.
Larsson is considered to be the best Swedish Dman ever for his age, and better than Hedman at his age. I think he can most certainly step in right away and contribute. Couturier is also considered top tier prospect, and from reports, could be better than Hall and Seguin. Both these players can contribute off the bat.

Next season, with one of those here, would only be a season of lessons and mistakes. Again, its the season after where the team gets to compete for a playoff spot. I have no doubt in my mind that could happen if one of those two players were available for us next summer.

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10-06-2010, 02:28 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by TimHortons View Post
HARHARHAR.

You are too funny. Oh and your last sentence makes 0 sense.
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OHL, actually.
Dont mind him, he is a just a troll

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10-06-2010, 02:37 PM
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Dont mind him, he is a just a troll
I still correct the trolls.

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10-06-2010, 02:43 PM
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Larsson is considered to be the best Swedish Dman ever for his age, and better than Hedman at his age. I think he can most certainly step in right away and contribute. Couturier is also considered top tier prospect, and from reports, could be better than Hall and Seguin. Both these players can contribute off the bat.

Next season, with one of those here, would only be a season of lessons and mistakes. Again, its the season after where the team gets to compete for a playoff spot. I have no doubt in my mind that could happen if one of those two players were available for us next summer.
well, the point is, EVEN IF they contribute (like, say stamkos did with 51 goals last year), it still guarantees nothing, not even a sniff of the playoffs.

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10-06-2010, 02:45 PM
  #122
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I agree, why waste a year of his ELC & allow him to become a FA at 25 (ala Bouwmeester) when this is clearly a rebuilding year?
But isnt it meant that he can play big minutes and develop even more in the nhl?

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10-06-2010, 03:46 PM
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DougMaclean

I feel for the Florida Panthers fans. One of the few bright spots for Coach Deboer, Gudbransen is sent back. Sad state for this franchise. 4 minutes ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®

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10-06-2010, 03:52 PM
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and what Doug Maclean says matters why?

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10-06-2010, 03:53 PM
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DougMaclean

I feel for the Florida Panthers fans. One of the few bright spots for Coach Deboer, Gudbransen is sent back. Sad state for this franchise. 4 minutes ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®
I'm going to guess that the Panthers offer was fair to slightly below typical bonus money for a player at his draft position. I doubt it was more than 2-5 hundred thousand they had an issue with . With that said, Guds is pretty stupid leaving a ton of money on the table, being forced back to the OHL to make nothing and now having to wait an extra year till free agency.

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