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The 2010 AAA Draft (rosters, picks, discussion, etc.)

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Old
11-05-2010, 12:22 PM
  #751
Hedberg
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Top 3 Picks of each round

Day 1:
Jason Allison, C, Regina
Billy Barlow, F/Rover, Queen's
Daniel Briere, C/RW, Colorado

Day 2:
Jack Ruttan, D, Regina
Danny Lewicki, LW, London
Morris Lukowich, LW, Abbotsford

Day 3:
Scott Mellanby, RW, Regina
Martin Straka, LW/C, Johnstown
Seth Martin, G, Abbotsford

Day 4:
Hib Milks, LW/C, Colorado
Mac Colville, RW, Queen's
Peter Zezel, C, Regina

Day 5:
Dave Creighton, C/LW, Winnipeg
Bill Juzda, D, Regina
Art Jackson, C, Philadelphia

Day 6:
Mike Bullard, C, London
Nick Libett, LW, Queen's
Albert Langlois, D, Colorado

Day 7:
Sergei Shepelev, LW/C, Queen's
Guy Chouinard, C, London
Tony Gingras, F, Philadelphia

Day 8:
Wildor Larochelle, RW, Queen's
Yevgeny Paladiev, D, Regina
Bob Trapp, D, London

Day 9:
Steve Sullivan, RW/C, London
Vladimir Golikov, C, Queen's
Bret Hedican, D, Kosice

Day 10:
Sergei Starikov, D, Queen's
Bob Armstrong, D, Philadelphia
Todd Marchant, C, London

Day 11:
Martin Havlat, W, Regina
Igor Stelnov, D, Queen's
Alexander Semin, LW, Colorado

Day 12:
Michal Pivonka, C, Queen's
Percy Traub, D, London
Armand Mondou, LW, Colorado

Day 13:
Michal Handzus, C, London
Anders Eldebrink, D, Johnstown
Dave Tippett, LW, Regina

Day 14:
Billy Harris, RW, Colorado
Bill Dineen, coach, Johnstown
Randy Burridge, LW, Queen's

Day 15:
Jose Theodore, G, Winnipeg
Pekka Lindmark, G, Queen's
John Muckler, coach, Regina

Day 16:
Jiri Lala, RW, London
Robert Reichel, C, Colorado
Howie Meeker, RW, Regina

Day 17:
Jiri Kralik, G, Regina
Billy Bell, RW/C, Philadelphia
Keith Carney, D, Kosice

Day 18:
Bohumil Modry, G, Abbotsford
Randy Manery, D, Regina
Jimmy Carson, C, Philadelphia

Day 19:
Pete Stemkowski, C, Regina
Paul Holmgren, RW, Philadelphia
Rob Zamuner, LW, London

Day 20:
Mike Murphy, RW, Regina
Igor Romishevsky, D, Queen's
Kim Johnsson, D, Philadelphia

Day 21:
Dan Maloney, LW, Queen's
Barry Trotz, coach, Philadelphia
Jude Drouin, C, Kosice

Day 22:
Eric Weinrich, D, Kosice
Randy McKay, RW, London
Patrick Sharp, F, Queen's

Day 23:
Ron Murphy, LW, Queen's
Alf Pike, C/LW, Winnipeg
Gary Sargent, D, Regina

Day 24:
John Mayasich, C/D, Regina
Bobby Kromm, coach, Colorado
Real Chevrefils, LW, Philadelphia

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Old
11-05-2010, 12:33 PM
  #752
seventieslord
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7 mentions? Awww, thanks, I guess you don't hate me that much after all. Your lack of a reply on the Mike Murphy conversation coupled with this must mean I made you a begridging believer in him.

Two comments: It doesn't make much sense that Lindmark can be among your top-3 picks one day and then Kralik can't be two days later. Ditto with Watson and Plager two days later. (unless of course, the Lindmark and Watson picks were made on weaker days and Kralik/Plager on stronger days!) - You must have missed the comparison between Lindmark and Kralik... and Plager was much more relied upon by much better teams, and was just as tough and intimidating but a smarter player overall.

I commend you on your exceptional restraint, naming your own picks on 17 of 24 days. I'd have named my own on all 24, personally, due to the fact that this far down, judgments vary, and I usually picked among the first few in a day and if I thought someone else was a better pick, I'd have taken them myself. For those reasons I'll eliminate my own team from this exercise and I'll also name one pick per day that I didn't particularly like:

DAY 1:

Bud Poile, RW, Toledo
Daniel Briere, C/RW, Colorado
Miroslav Satan, W, Kosice

Jaroslav Drobny, C, Abbotsford


DAY 2:

Thomas Gradin, C, Toledo
Jozef Stumpel, C, Kosice
Chris Phillips, D, Queen's

Brad Stuart, D, Colorado

DAY 3:

Martin Straka, LW/C, Johnstown
Nick Mickoski, LW, Toledo
Curt Giles, D, Philadelphia

Red Green, LW, London

DAY 4:

Hib Milks, LW/C, Colorado
Alexei Zhitnik, D, London
Darren Puppa, G, Kosice

Oleg Tverdovsky, D, Winnipeg

DAY 5:

Reggie Lemelin, G, London
Geoff Sanderson, LW, Johnstown
Ulf Dahlen, RW, Queen's

Tim Young, C, Toledo


DAY 6:

Patrik Sundstrom, LW/C, Toledo
Gaetan Duchesne, LW, Abbotsford
Nick Libett, LW, Queen's

Robert Picard, D, Winnipeg

DAY 7:

Sergei Shepelev, LW/C, Queen's
Guy Chouinard, C, London
Tony Gingras, F, Philadelphia

John Cullen, C, Kosice


DAY 8:

Bob Trapp, D, London
Wildor Larochelle, RW, Queen's
Sami Kapanen, W, Kosice

Eddie Wares, D, Johnstown

DAY 9:

Willie Mitchell, D, Abbotsford
Vladimir Golikov, C, Queen's
Steve Sullivan, RW/C, London

Pierre Bouchard, D, Colorado

DAY 10:

Dale McCourt, C, Colorado
Pentti Lund, RW, Toledo
Eric Brewer, D, Winnipeg

Sergei Starikov, D, Queen's

DAY 11:

Gilles Meloche, G, Johnstown
Igor Stelnov, D, Queen's
Alexander Semin, LW, Colorado

Norm MacIver, D, Kosice

DAY 12:

Terry Crisp, C, Toledo
Michal Pivonka, C, Queen's
Earl Ingarfield, C, Kosice

Armand Mondou, LW, Colorado

DAY 13:

Anders Eldebrink, D, Johnstown
Jacques Martin, coach, Queen's
Leo Reise, Sr., D, Colorado

Greg Gilbert, LW, Philadelphia

DAY 14:

Bill Dineen, coach, Johnstown
Bill Clement, C, Winnipeg
Randy Burridge, LW, Queen's

Arthur Moore, D, London

DAY 15:

Pekka Lindmark, G, Queen's
Colin Patterson, W, London
Ed Kea, D, Kosice

Bep Guidolin, LW, Philadelphia

DAY 16:

Jiri Lala, RW, London
Bill Brydge, D, Philadelphia
Don Beaupre, G, Queen's

Hal Laycoe, D, Johnstown

DAY 17:

Keith Carney, D, Kosice
Stu Barnes, F, Colorado
Daymond Langkow, C, Winnipeg

Gary Sabourin, RW, Abbotsford

DAY 18:

Joe Reekie, D, Winnipeg
Harold Snepsts, D, Colorado
Jörgen Pettersson, LW, London

Alex Burrows, RW, Toledo

DAY 19:

Michael Nylander, C, Kosice
Rob Zamuner, LW, London
Paul Holmgren, RW, Philadelphia

Edmond Bouchard, LW/D, Colorado

DAY 20:

Kim Johnsson, D, Philadelphia
Radek Bonk, C, Johnstown
Alex Kaleta, LW, Abotsford

Rollie Melanson, G, Toledo

DAY 21:

Dan Maloney, LW, Queen's
Brian Sutter, coach, Winnipeg
Jude Drouin, C, Kosice

Grant Ledyard, D, Johnstown

DAY 22:

Eric Weinrich, D, Kosice
Jon Casey, G, Philadelphia
Randy McKay, RW, London

Tony Conroy, W, Colorado

DAY 23:

Charles Tobin, W/D, Toledo
Ron Murphy, LW, Queen's
Olli Jokinen, C, London

Aarne Honkavaara, F, Johnstown

DAY 24:

Bobby Kromm, coach, Colorado
Real Chevrefils, LW, Philadelphia
Stephane Robidas, D, Abbotsford

Tom Johnson, coach, Kosice

Tons of overlap with VI here, but also a few players who made the leaast favourite list who were on his favourites - Young (one good season), Bouchard (way too early for a guy who should be a spare), Starikov (I had questions about him that were never answered), Mondou (seems very run-of-the-mill), Moore (not sure he was important to his team), Ledyard (run-of-the-mill - but this was a strong day for picks)

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11-05-2010, 01:05 PM
  #753
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So, Hedberg, based on your top-3 picks per round, we agree this would be a significant all-time great line-up:

Bobby Kromm, coach

Hib Milks - Billy Barlow - Mac Colville
Sergei Shepelev - Art Jackson - Tony Gingras
Armand Mondou - Michal Pivonka - Wildor Larochelle
Dan Maloney - Pete Stemkowski - Paul Holmgren
Scott Mellanby, Randy McKay

Jack Ruttan - Albert Langlois
Sergei Starikov - Igor Stelnov
Bob Armstrong - Igor Romishevsky
John Mayasich

Pekka Lindmark

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Old
11-05-2010, 01:21 PM
  #754
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
Top 3 Picks of each round

Day 1:
Jason Allison, C, Regina
Billy Barlow, F/Rover, Queen's
Daniel Briere, C/RW, Colorado

Day 2:
Jack Ruttan, D, Regina
Danny Lewicki, LW, London
Morris Lukowich, LW, Abbotsford

Day 3:
Scott Mellanby, RW, Regina
Martin Straka, LW/C, Johnstown
Seth Martin, G, Abbotsford

Day 4:
Hib Milks, LW/C, Colorado
Mac Colville, RW, Queen's
Peter Zezel, C, Regina

Day 5:
Dave Creighton, C/LW, Winnipeg
Bill Juzda, D, Regina
Art Jackson, C, Philadelphia

Day 6:
Mike Bullard, C, London
Nick Libett, LW, Queen's
Albert Langlois, D, Colorado

Day 7:
Sergei Shepelev, LW/C, Queen's
Guy Chouinard, C, London
Tony Gingras, F, Philadelphia

Day 8:
Wildor Larochelle, RW, Queen's
Yevgeny Paladiev, D, Regina
Bob Trapp, D, London

Day 9:
Steve Sullivan, RW/C, London
Vladimir Golikov, C, Queen's
Bret Hedican, D, Kosice

Day 10:
Sergei Starikov, D, Queen's
Bob Armstrong, D, Philadelphia
Todd Marchant, C, London

Day 11:
Martin Havlat, W, Regina
Igor Stelnov, D, Queen's
Alexander Semin, LW, Colorado

Day 12:
Michal Pivonka, C, Queen's
Percy Traub, D, London
Armand Mondou, LW, Colorado

Day 13:
Michal Handzus, C, London
Anders Eldebrink, D, Johnstown
Dave Tippett, LW, Regina

Day 14:
Billy Harris, RW, Colorado
Bill Dineen, coach, Johnstown
Randy Burridge, LW, Queen's

Day 15:
Jose Theodore, G, Winnipeg
Pekka Lindmark, G, Queen's
John Muckler, coach, Regina

Day 16:
Jiri Lala, RW, London
Robert Reichel, C, Colorado
Howie Meeker, RW, Regina

Day 17:
Jiri Kralik, G, Regina
Billy Bell, RW/C, Philadelphia
Keith Carney, D, Kosice

Day 18:
Bohumil Modry, G, Abbotsford
Randy Manery, D, Regina
Jimmy Carson, C, Philadelphia

Day 19:
Pete Stemkowski, C, Regina
Paul Holmgren, RW, Philadelphia
Rob Zamuner, LW, London

Day 20:
Mike Murphy, RW, Regina
Igor Romishevsky, D, Queen's
Kim Johnsson, D, Philadelphia

Day 21:
Dan Maloney, LW, Queen's
Barry Trotz, coach, Philadelphia
Jude Drouin, C, Kosice

Day 22:
Eric Weinrich, D, Kosice
Randy McKay, RW, London
Patrick Sharp, F, Queen's

Day 23:
Ron Murphy, LW, Queen's
Alf Pike, C/LW, Winnipeg
Gary Sargent, D, Regina

Day 24:
John Mayasich, C/D, Regina
Bobby Kromm, coach, Colorado
Real Chevrefils, LW, Philadelphia
16 mentions! Wow, you're right, we do think alike. And 15 for Queen's, and 11 for London, leaving 30 for the other 6 teams combined.

It's kinda weird that you and I think alike, and you and VI think alike, by VI and I so often don't.

VI, if you're constructing an all-star team, the fact that we all agree Kromm was a good pick in a very late round doesn't necessarily make him the most deserving coach for the AST.

Yes, I'd name him one of the best three of 10 picks, but I wouldn't name him one of the best three of 10 coaches, if you catch my drift.

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Old
11-05-2010, 01:31 PM
  #755
Hedberg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
16 mentions! Wow, you're right, we do think alike. And 15 for Queen's, and 11 for London, leaving 30 for the other 6 teams combined.

It's kinda weird that you and I think alike, and you and VI think alike, by VI and I so often don't.
I have no clue how that exactly works. I think it's because I've looked to you two as my ATD mentors and so I've combined the things I like from both of your approaches.

And I agree with most of your worst picks (including Burrows and Melanson; VCL and I were trying to cram as many Canucks related picks onto our team as possible. We're sorry for the mess Burrows created; theme teams, even semi-themes, are really not good ideas and I'm not trying that again.) To atone, I'll dig deep for some good finds in the AA (and once all my term papers are finished, the hunt for Charles Tobin info will begin)

Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
VI, if you're constructing an all-star team, the fact that we all agree Kromm was a good pick in a very late round doesn't necessarily make him the most deserving coach for the AST.

Yes, I'd name him one of the best three of 10 picks, but I wouldn't name him one of the best three of 10 coaches, if you catch my drift.
Yes, that's the problem with basing a team off the best three picks; I also don't think I like Mondou on the third line; day 12 was just a relatively weak day.

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Old
11-05-2010, 01:34 PM
  #756
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How about we look at what we think were especially strong and weak days....

Days 12 and 19 were stronger than Day 8 for sure.

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Old
11-05-2010, 01:58 PM
  #757
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I'll do it the 70s way and list no picks of mine and the dislike pick too.

DAY 1:
Jason Allison, C, Regina
Bud Poile, RW, Toledo
Daniel Briere, C/RW, Colorado

Mark Streit, D, London

DAY 2:
Ilya Bryzgalov, G, Johnstown
Jack Ruttan, D, Regina
Chris Phillips, D, Queen's

Brad Stuart, D, Colorado

DAY 3:
Martin Straka, LW/C, Johnstown
Scott Mellanby, RW, Regina
Curt Giles, D, Philadelphia

Anton Volchenkov, D, Queen's

DAY 4:
Alexei Zhitnik, D, London
Peter Zezel, C, Regina
Oleg Tverdovsky, D, Winnipeg

Tom Kurvers, D, Johnstown

DAY 5:
Geoff Sanderson, LW, Johnstown
Ulf Dahlen, RW, Queen's
Bill Juzda, D, Regina

Dave Creighton, C/LW, Winnipeg

DAY 6:
Robert Picard, D, Winnipeg
Patrik Sundstrom, LW/C, Toledo
Gaetan Duchesne, LW, Abbotsford

Nick Libett, LW, Queen's

DAY 7:
Cory Stillman, LW, Winnipeg
Doug Lidster, D, Colorado
Murray Craven, LW, Regina

Randy Carlyle, coach, Abbotsford

DAY 8:
Eddie Wares, D, Johnstown
Jim McFadden, C, Winnipeg
Ilkka Sinisalo, RW, Abbotsford

Pavel Kubina, D, Toledo

DAY 9:
Andrew Cassels, C, Johnstown
Scott Young, RW, Toledo
Felix Potvin, G, Regina

Willie Mitchell, D, Abbotsford

DAY 10:
Dale McCourt, C, Colorado
Darcy Tucker, F, Johnstown
Todd Marchant, C, London

Eric Brewer, D, Winnipeg

DAY 11:
Gilles Meloche, G, Johnstown
Alexander Semin, LW, Colorado
Poul Popiel, D, Abbotsford

Martin Havlat, W, Regina

DAY 12:
Terry Crisp, C, Toledo
Michal Pivonka, C, Queen's
Jeff O'Neill, RW, Johnstown

Sami Salo, D, Abbotsford

DAY 13:
Greg Gilbert, LW, Philadelphia
Michal Handzus, C, London
Dave Tippett, LW, Regina

Mark Osborne, LW, Abbotsford

DAY 14:
Terry Crisp, coach, Regina
Bill Dineen, coach, Johnstown
Randy Burridge, LW, Queen's

Murray Henderson, D, Abbotsford

DAY 15:
John Muckler, coach, Regina
Pekka Lindmark, G, Queen's
Ed Olczyk, C/RW, Colorado

Jose Theodore, G, Winnipeg

DAY 16:
Don Beaupre, G, Queen's
Hal Laycoe, D, Johnstown
Jiri Lala, RW, London

Robert Reichel, C, Colorado

DAY 17:
Jiri Kralik, G, Regina
Dave Reid, LW, Johnstown
Emile Francis, coach, London

Stu Barnes, F, Colorado

DAY 18:
Randy Manery, D, Regina
Harold Snepsts, D, Colorado
Joe Reekie, D, Winnipeg

Alex Burrows, RW, Toledo

DAY 19:
Christian Ruuttu, C, Johnstown
Rob Zamuner, LW, London
Paul Holmgren, RW, Philadelphia

Ian Laperriere, RW, Winnipeg

DAY 20:
Radek Bonk, C, Johnstown
Lou Nanne, D/RW, Colorado
Gary Leeman, LW, Winnipeg

Marek Zidlicky, D, London

DAY 21:
Grant Ledyard, D, Johnstown
Bob Plager, D, Regina
Barry Trotz, coach, Philadelphia

Niklas Backstrom, G, London

DAY 22:
Jon Casey, G, Philadelphia
Randy McKay, RW, London
Frank St. Marseille, RW, Abbotsford

Patrick Sharp, F, Queen's

DAY 23:
Gary Sargent, D, Regina
Al Smith, G, Colorado
Olli Jokinen, C, London

Chris Nilan, RW, Abbotsford

DAY 24:
Shawn Chambers, D, Johnstown
Bobby Kromm, coach, Colorado
Joel Quenneville, D, London

Stephane Robidas, D, Abbotsford

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Old
11-05-2010, 01:58 PM
  #758
DaveG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
16 mentions! Wow, you're right, we do think alike. And 15 for Queen's, and 11 for London, leaving 30 for the other 6 teams combined.

It's kinda weird that you and I think alike, and you and VI think alike, by VI and I so often don't.

VI, if you're constructing an all-star team, the fact that we all agree Kromm was a good pick in a very late round doesn't necessarily make him the most deserving coach for the AST.

Yes, I'd name him one of the best three of 10 picks, but I wouldn't name him one of the best three of 10 coaches, if you catch my drift.
I don't disagree with this premise too much. Mind you, I think my take on the picks would be drastically different from the lists submitted so far.

And yes, Kromm was certainly in my top 3 for that day, and in terms of value picks is probably one of the 10 best from this draft. But I wouldn't have him ranked ahead of Bill Dineen, Randy Carlyle as well as a few other coaches in this draft. Likewise I would rank Kim Johnsson ahead of Bret Hedican in terms of value, but would not rank him ahead of Hedican in terms of overall ranking. I think that would be an interesting question for this draft, who the top 10 value picks are.

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11-05-2010, 02:22 PM
  #759
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadArcand View Post
I'll do it the 70s way and list no picks of mine and the dislike pick too.

DAY 1:
Jason Allison, C, Regina
Bud Poile, RW, Toledo
Daniel Briere, C/RW, Colorado

Mark Streit, D, London

DAY 2:
Ilya Bryzgalov, G, Johnstown
Jack Ruttan, D, Regina
Chris Phillips, D, Queen's

Brad Stuart, D, Colorado

DAY 3:
Martin Straka, LW/C, Johnstown
Scott Mellanby, RW, Regina
Curt Giles, D, Philadelphia

Anton Volchenkov, D, Queen's

DAY 4:
Alexei Zhitnik, D, London
Peter Zezel, C, Regina
Oleg Tverdovsky, D, Winnipeg

Tom Kurvers, D, Johnstown

DAY 5:
Geoff Sanderson, LW, Johnstown
Ulf Dahlen, RW, Queen's
Bill Juzda, D, Regina

Dave Creighton, C/LW, Winnipeg

DAY 6:
Robert Picard, D, Winnipeg
Patrik Sundstrom, LW/C, Toledo
Gaetan Duchesne, LW, Abbotsford

Nick Libett, LW, Queen's

DAY 7:
Cory Stillman, LW, Winnipeg
Doug Lidster, D, Colorado
Murray Craven, LW, Regina

Randy Carlyle, coach, Abbotsford

DAY 8:
Eddie Wares, D, Johnstown
Jim McFadden, C, Winnipeg
Ilkka Sinisalo, RW, Abbotsford

Pavel Kubina, D, Toledo

DAY 9:
Andrew Cassels, C, Johnstown
Scott Young, RW, Toledo
Felix Potvin, G, Regina

Willie Mitchell, D, Abbotsford

DAY 10:
Dale McCourt, C, Colorado
Darcy Tucker, F, Johnstown
Todd Marchant, C, London

Eric Brewer, D, Winnipeg

DAY 11:
Gilles Meloche, G, Johnstown
Alexander Semin, LW, Colorado
Poul Popiel, D, Abbotsford

Martin Havlat, W, Regina

DAY 12:
Terry Crisp, C, Toledo
Michal Pivonka, C, Queen's
Jeff O'Neill, RW, Johnstown

Sami Salo, D, Abbotsford

DAY 13:
Greg Gilbert, LW, Philadelphia
Michal Handzus, C, London
Dave Tippett, LW, Regina

Mark Osborne, LW, Abbotsford

DAY 14:
Terry Crisp, coach, Regina
Bill Dineen, coach, Johnstown
Randy Burridge, LW, Queen's

Murray Henderson, D, Abbotsford

DAY 15:
John Muckler, coach, Regina
Pekka Lindmark, G, Queen's
Ed Olczyk, C/RW, Colorado

Jose Theodore, G, Winnipeg

DAY 16:
Don Beaupre, G, Queen's
Hal Laycoe, D, Johnstown
Jiri Lala, RW, London

Robert Reichel, C, Colorado

DAY 17:
Jiri Kralik, G, Regina
Dave Reid, LW, Johnstown
Emile Francis, coach, London

Stu Barnes, F, Colorado

DAY 18:
Randy Manery, D, Regina
Harold Snepsts, D, Colorado
Joe Reekie, D, Winnipeg

Alex Burrows, RW, Toledo

DAY 19:
Christian Ruuttu, C, Johnstown
Rob Zamuner, LW, London
Paul Holmgren, RW, Philadelphia

Ian Laperriere, RW, Winnipeg

DAY 20:
Radek Bonk, C, Johnstown
Lou Nanne, D/RW, Colorado
Gary Leeman, LW, Winnipeg

Marek Zidlicky, D, London

DAY 21:
Grant Ledyard, D, Johnstown
Bob Plager, D, Regina
Barry Trotz, coach, Philadelphia

Niklas Backstrom, G, London

DAY 22:
Jon Casey, G, Philadelphia
Randy McKay, RW, London
Frank St. Marseille, RW, Abbotsford

Patrick Sharp, F, Queen's

DAY 23:
Gary Sargent, D, Regina
Al Smith, G, Colorado
Olli Jokinen, C, London

Chris Nilan, RW, Abbotsford

DAY 24:
Shawn Chambers, D, Johnstown
Bobby Kromm, coach, Colorado
Joel Quenneville, D, London

Stephane Robidas, D, Abbotsford
So it looks like Barnes, Robidas, Brewer and Mitchell are the ones we disagree on the most. And on the other side of the ledger, Tverdovsky, Picard, Gilbert, Laycoe, Ledyard.

We agree so much on some defensemen, and so little on some others.

Nice to see Reekie getting a lot of love, though. I already explained why I stayed away from him, but he's a legit pick.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton Carter View Post
I don't disagree with this premise too much. Mind you, I think my take on the picks would be drastically different from the lists submitted so far.

And yes, Kromm was certainly in my top 3 for that day, and in terms of value picks is probably one of the 10 best from this draft. But I wouldn't have him ranked ahead of Bill Dineen, Randy Carlyle as well as a few other coaches in this draft. Likewise I would rank Kim Johnsson ahead of Bret Hedican in terms of value, but would not rank him ahead of Hedican in terms of overall ranking. I think that would be an interesting question for this draft, who the top 10 value picks are.
Yes and no. We're so late in the draft that it's almost expected that every pick is about the same "value", with the exception of the bad ones. (i.e. they can only be so good, but they can be really bad if you blow a pick) so a list of "best value picks" would more or less just be a list of "best picks", with a few exceptions.

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Old
11-05-2010, 03:15 PM
  #760
BillyShoe1721
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Excluding my own team, I'll list two that I liked and one that I didn't.

Day 1

Jason Allison(was going to be my pick, but you beat me to it)
Mud Bruneteau

Petr Nedved

Day 2

Thomas Gradin
Morris Lukowich

Brad Stuart/Ilya Bryzgalov

Day 3

Martin Straka
Nick Mickoski

Andrew Brunette

Day 4

Alexei Zhitnik
Hib Milks

Oleg Tverdovsky

Day 5

Dave Creighton
Tim Young

Bill Juzda

Day 6

Gaetan Duchesne
Nick Libett

Robert Picard

Day 7

Sergei Shepelev
Guy Chouinard

John Cullen

Day 8

Yevgeny Paladiev
Sami Kapanen

Pavel Kubina

Day 9

Willie Mitchell
Andrew Cassels

Janne Niinimaa

Day 10 (really didn't like this day at all)

Todd Marchant
Sergei Starikov

Darcy Tucker/Dustin Brown/Eric Brewer

Day 11

Bert Lindsay
Alex Skvortsov

Martin Havlat

Day 12

Michal Pivonka
Terry Crisp

Vladimir Malakhov (admitted bias)

Day 13

Anders Eldebrink
Jacques Martin

Mark Osborne

Day 14

Stephane Yelle
Murray Henderson

Nobody really

Day 15

Pekka Lindmark
Ed Olczyk

Johan Franzen

Day 16

Jiri Lala
Don Beaupre

Tim Thomas

Day 17

Dave Reid
Stu Barnes

Daymond Langkow

Day 18

Jorgen Pettersson
Bohumil Modry

Alex Burrows

Day 19

Ian Laperriere
Pete Stemkowski

Philippe Boucher

Day 20

Radek Bonk
Igor Romishevsky

Marek Zidlicky

Day 21

Bob Plager
Brian Sutter

Jude Drouin

Day 22

Frank St. Marseille
Randy McKay

Patrick Sharp

Day 23

No opinion on pretty much anyone either way, I know next to nothing about most of them

Day 24

John Mayasich
Bobby Kromm

Glenn Brydson

Most of these picks have no rhyme or reason to them, don't be offended.

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11-05-2010, 03:23 PM
  #761
TheDevilMadeMe
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MadArcand, just out of curiosity (ok, more than that since it's my team), why do think Tverdovsky was a good pick and Streit a bad one? From watching the two guys play, Streit is better at everything than Tverdovsky was. Is it just because Streit hasn't played in the NHL for that long? (though he apparently starred in Switzerland for a long time, captain and probably best skater of the 2006 team that upset Canada in the Olympics).

Also, how is Bryzgalov a good pick in round 4 and Backstrom a bad pick in round 22?

Backstrom:
Vezina record: 6th (2007), 6th (2008), 3rd (2009)
Save percentages: 1st (2007), 8th (2008), 4th (2009)

Bryzgalov
Vezina record: 2nd (2010) - that's it
Save percentages: 8th (2008), 9th (2010)
Bryzgalov was 5th in Hart voting in 2010, but that's really the only edge I can see over Backstrom.

Sure Brzygalov has been better in the 25 career playoff games he's played in than Backstrom has in his 11, but I don't see how it's a big enough difference to make one a good and one a bad pick, especially when the "bad" pick is a backup.

Backstrom is also a 2 time winner of the Finnish equivalents for both the Vezina and Conn Smythe (for what that's worth), while I don't think Brzygalov did anything significant before coming to the NHL.

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11-05-2010, 03:29 PM
  #762
BillyShoe1721
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You can't ignore the fact that Backstrom was playing the most defensive system in the NHL and in his first year out of it, had very sub-par numbers. Although he has started off this year very well.

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11-05-2010, 03:32 PM
  #763
DaveG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post

Backstrom is also a 2 time winner of the Finnish equivalents for both the Vezina and Conn Smythe (for what that's worth), while I don't think Brzygalov did anything significant before coming to the NHL.
AHL All Star and RSL rookie of the year (need to double check this one) for Bryz.

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11-05-2010, 03:43 PM
  #764
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
Most of these picks have no rhyme or reason to them, don't be offended.
Good job, I like that we can all call it as we see it and not take it personally.

But why Juzda? He seems to have been pretty popular otherwise.

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11-05-2010, 03:43 PM
  #765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
You can't ignore the fact that Backstrom was playing the most defensive system in the NHL and in his first year out of it, had very sub-par numbers. Although he has started off this year very well.
I assume that NHL GMs took that into account when they voted on the Vezina Trophy those years (though obviously they couldn't take 2010 into account in earlier years... haha).

Anyway, this is an interesting point. I figured I'd compare Backstrom's stats percentage to the other goalies in Minnesota in his 3 best years to attempt to see how much of it is a team effect.

Goalie GP wins save% GAA SO

2006-07:

XXX 44 22 .911 2.55 2
Backstrom 41 23 .929 1.97 5
YYY 7 3 .960 1.16 1

2007-08:

Backstrom 58 33 .920 2.31 4
YYY 29 11 .908 2.94 1

2008-09:

Backstrom 71 37 .923 2.33 8
YYY 19 3 .929 2.21 0

Backstrom signficantly outperformed the other goalies in Minnesota statistically in both 2007 and 2008. His save & and GAA were slightly worse than his backup in 2009, but his win/loss record and shutouts are much better (and keep in mind that backups usually play the easier games).

LOL, so much effort for our backup goalie.

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11-05-2010, 03:46 PM
  #766
BillyShoe1721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Good job, I like that we can all call it as we see it and not take it personally.

But why Juzda? He seems to have been pretty popular otherwise.
I like him personally, but where you picked him was a little early IMO. He was an absolutely tenacious hitter, but Day 5 for a #5 defenseman seemed a little odd.

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11-05-2010, 03:47 PM
  #767
tony d
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Let me do this too, I won't rank players from my own team either:

Day 1:

Jason Allison
Daniel Briere
Miroslav Satan

Bottom Pick: Mark Streit

Day 2:

Thomas Gradin
Chris Phillips
Glen Murray

Bottom Pick: Brad Stuart

Day 3:

Andrew Brunette
Curt Giles
Lubomir Visnovsky

Bottom Pick: Joe Daley

Day 4:

Darren Puppa
Mike Palamateer
Alexei Zhitnik

Bottom Pick: Peter Zezel

Day 5:

Reggie Lemelin
Ulf Dahlen
Tim Young

Bottom Pick: Dave Creighton

Day 6:

Mike Bullard
Albert Langlois
Patrik Sundstrom

Bottom Pick: Gaetan Duschene

Day 7:

Cory Stillman
Guy Chouinard
Doug Lidster

Bottom Pick: Randy Carlyle

Day 8:

Illka Sinsalo
Pavel Kubina
Sami Kapanen

Bottom Pick: Bob Trapp

Day 9:

Scott Young
Pelle Eklund
Bret Hedican

Bottom Pick: Willie Mitchell

Day 10:

Dale Mccourt
Johnny Sheppard
Bob Armstrong

Bottom Pick: Dustin Brown

Day 11:

Petr Sykora
Shawn Burr
Bert Lindsay

Bottom Pick: Martin Havlat

Day 12:

Michal Pivonka
Armand Mondou
Terry Crisp

Bottom Pick: Sami Salo

Day 13:

Greg Gilbert
Tom Bladon
Dave Tippett

Bottom Pick: Mark Osborne

Day 14:

Billy Harris
Bill Clement
Randy Burridge

Bottom Pick: Murray Henderson

Day 15:

Gord Pettinger
Ed Olcyzk
Johan Franzen

Bottom Pick: John Muckler

Day 16:

Jiri Lala
Steve Rucchin
Don Beaupre

Bottom Pick: Jordan Staal

Day 17:

Keith Carney
Stu Barnes
Greg Adams

Bottom Pick: Gary Sabourin

Day 18:

Andy Aitkenhead
Joe Reekie
Harold Snepsts

Bottom Pick: Alex Burrows

Day 19:

Michael Nylander
Phillipe Boucher
Paul Holmgren

Bottom Pick: Ian Laperriere

Day 20:

Mike Murphy
Lou Nanne
Kim Jonsson

Bottom Pick: Rollie Melanson

Day 21:

Dan Maloney
Bob Plager
Barry Trotz

Bottom Pick: Anatoli Semenov

Day 22:

Jon Casey
Dennis Kearns
Frank St.Marsielle

Bottom Pick: Patrick Sharp

Day 23:

Derek King
Olli Jokinen
Al Smith

Bottom Pick: Chris Nilan

Day 24:

Joel Quenneville
Real Chevrefils
Stephane Robidas

Bottom Pick: Tom Johnson

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11-05-2010, 04:26 PM
  #768
BillyShoe1721
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So are we just not releasing the rest of the standings until Sunday?

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11-05-2010, 04:54 PM
  #769
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
I like him personally, but where you picked him was a little early IMO. He was an absolutely tenacious hitter, but Day 5 for a #5 defenseman seemed a little odd.
I'd completely agree if we were in the ATD, or even the MLD. But this deep in the draft there is little difference between a defenseman you get in round 5 and a defenseman you get in round 15, provided you draft well. The pick was more strategic than anything - at the time he was the only D-man I was sure I wanted to eventually select, and he was also the one I saw as the greatest risk to be selected. But thank you, I appreciate the commentary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony d View Post
Let me do this too, I won't rank players from my own team either:

Bottom Pick: Peter Zezel

Bottom Pick: Martin Havlat

Bottom Pick: John Muckler
I appreciate all the feedback, of course, but let me defend these picks and who knows, maybe I'll change your mind.

Zezel: If your reasoning is based on the fact that it was day 4 and he ended up on my 3rd line, I've already responded to a similar question mark surrounding Juzda. Just a difference in philosophy I guess. If it's based on his greatness as a player, would it help if I told you that his 6 seasons of 54+ points are a high among bottom-six forwards in this draft (he had two more would-be 62-63-point seasons cut short by injury as well) and that he has a great reputation as a defensive center and faceoff man?

Havlat: Yeah I know, the name leaves a bad taste in my mouth too. But if we look at the guy objectively, there might not have been a more talented player left at the time. I do know that his career 0.71 ESPPG was the highest among available players at the time, by a wide margin, and it's not like he has a short career either.

Muckler: Is this just because it was my 2nd coach in 2 days? If so, chalk that up to different philosophies. I considered him a major risk to get selected so it had to be done. Muckler is, by my standards, one of the three most accomplished coaches in this draft. He coached 648 NHL games with a .493 win%, 67 playoff games with a .537 win%, was 3rd in adams voting once, and has a cup. Outside the NHL, he coached 939 games with a .526 win%, 2 championships and a final, and 2 coach of the year awards. And that;s all as a head coach. As an assistant/associate coach, he was a part of four other Oiler cups, and that's what he is here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
So are we just not releasing the rest of the standings until Sunday?
I guess that's the plan.

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11-05-2010, 05:03 PM
  #770
tony d
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Okay let me get back to 70s:

Muckler: Yeah he was a good coach and while I realize I'm new to this I don't see the need for having 2 coaches for the 1 team. You should fill out your bench before picking a 2nd coach.

Havlat: Injuries played a part there for me. The guy is to much of an injury risk to have been picked. His stats are good but the injury risk is there.

Zezel: Went to early, that is all, would have been a great pick towards the end of this draft but not on Day 4.

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11-05-2010, 05:23 PM
  #771
seventieslord
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Muckler: Yeah he was a good coach and while I realize I'm new to this I don't see the need for having 2 coaches for the 1 team. You should fill out your bench before picking a 2nd coach.
In any other draft I'd fully agree but the value difference between an early and late pick is so small anyway. I actually couldn't decide which of Crisp and Muckler I liked more so I took advantage of the fact that Muckler was a successful associate/assistant. there was maybe only one more guy who could have done that part for me.

Quote:
Havlat: Injuries played a part there for me. The guy is to much of an injury risk to have been picked. His stats are good but the injury risk is there.
On opposite ends of his three injury-plagued seasons, he's had six seasons of 67 or more games, that's not too bad.

Quote:
Zezel: Went to early, that is all, would have been a great pick towards the end of this draft but not on Day 4.
Yeah, perhaps, but I think if I didn't do that, someone else would have.

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11-05-2010, 05:55 PM
  #772
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MadArcand and TonyD both picked Mark Streit as the worst pick of round 1. Is it just because there were better overall players available? When I took him, I knew there were better overall players available, but I picked Streit early to fill a very specific role - I wanted a top end PP quarterback who wasn't awful in his own zone. And if he's not the best in the draft at that specific role, I think he's one of them.

Is there a defenseman in the draft with a better offensive peak than 3rd, 7th, and 8th in the modern NHL talent pool? The 7th and 8th place finishes were on a terrible Islanders team - he actually led the team in scoring one of the years among all players and was 5 points behind the team leader another time.

And it's not like the guy is awful defensively, the following is from his profile. Check out how solid his +/- is in 08-09 and 09-10 compared to his awful team, and he did this by playing huge minutes in all situations.

Quote:
2007-08: 13th in Norris voting, 13th in AS voting, 3rd in points among defensemen behind only Lidstrom and Gonchar

2008-09: 8th in Norris voting, 10th in AS voting, 7th in points among defensemen
-On the NY Islanders: Led the team in scoring (all players) with 56 points, 2nd place was a forward with only 39 points! +/- of +5: only player who played more than half the games to be a plus player; team overall goal differential was -78

2009-10: 10th in Norris voting, 13th in AS voting, 8th in points among defensemen
-On the NY Islanders: 3rd in scoring on the team, only 5 points behind 1st, +/- of zero on a team that was -42 in goal differential
I realize his NHL career is very short, but he was a star for Switzerland for a long time before coming over - 10 consecutive World Championships starting in 1998, and the 2002, 2006, and 2010 Olympics. Obviously, I have no idea how good he was in Switzerland that whole time, but he was good enough to be the captain and probably best skater of the team that upset both the Czech Republic and Canada in the 2006 Olympics.

Here's his full profile: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...1&postcount=29

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11-05-2010, 05:59 PM
  #773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
So are we just not releasing the rest of the standings until Sunday?
To prevent 2 vs. 3 discussion ahead of 1 vs.4 yes, we wait.

We are supposed to be commenting on the 4 vs. 5 match-ups now in the contest for the final two playoff spots.

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11-05-2010, 06:01 PM
  #774
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First just to be clear, the 'disliked pick' is what I felt worst pick in a round, not necessarily a bad pick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
MadArcand, just out of curiosity (ok, more than that since it's my team), why do think Tverdovsky was a good pick and Streit a bad one? From watching the two guys play, Streit is better at everything than Tverdovsky was. Is it just because Streit hasn't played in the NHL for that long? (though he apparently starred in Switzerland for a long time, captain and probably best skater of the 2006 team that upset Canada in the Olympics).
Yes, it's largely that I feel Streit hasn't really done much (yet). And picked in 1st round? Ugh.

Quote:
Also, how is Bryzgalov a good pick in round 4 and Backstrom a bad pick in round 22?

Backstrom:
Vezina record: 6th (2007), 6th (2008), 3rd (2009)
Save percentages: 1st (2007), 8th (2008), 4th (2009)

Bryzgalov
Vezina record: 2nd (2010) - that's it
Save percentages: 8th (2008), 9th (2010)
Bryzgalov was 5th in Hart voting in 2010, but that's really the only edge I can see over Backstrom.

Sure Brzygalov has been better in the 25 career playoff games he's played in than Backstrom has in his 11, but I don't see how it's a big enough difference to make one a good and one a bad pick, especially when the "bad" pick is a backup.

Backstrom is also a 2 time winner of the Finnish equivalents for both the Vezina and Conn Smythe (for what that's worth), while I don't think Brzygalov did anything significant before coming to the NHL.
Bryz has a higher peak, is more accomplished in playoffs, was more important to his teams than Backstrom was, and played on mediocre teams while Backstrom screams product of Lemaire's total defense system. Backstrom has gaudy SV% numbers, but just look at Minnesota's #1's numbers:

2000-01 XXX .920 - 6th in league
2001-02 YYY .901 - off year, sophmore jinx for the franchise, you name it
2002-03 YYY .927, XXX .924 - 2nd & 4th, plainly absurd
2003-04 YYY .933 - 1st, do we see a pattern developing?
2005-06 XXX .919 - 5th, kinda becoming obvious, ain't it?
2006-07 Backstrom .929, XXX .911 - 1st & 15th
2007-08 Backstrom .920 - 8th
2008-09 Backstrom .923 - 4th
2009-10 Backstrom .903 - look, no more Lemaire and Backstrom suddenly falls 2%, a coincidence?

And before you bring up his numbers 10 games into this season, the sample size is absurdly small and thus they can be dismissed as so far irrelevant.

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11-05-2010, 09:03 PM
  #775
tony d
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I'm with Arcand here. Streit is a good pick, one of the top offensive defenseman since the lockout but Round 1 was way to early for him.

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