HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Notices

Hooray!

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-08-2004, 10:33 AM
  #26
s7ark
LeonTheProfessional
 
s7ark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,471
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edmund Oiler
It was am exciting playoff run. part of me is disappointed but a part of me is happy we won't have to listen to Flamer fans brag.

Nobody remembers who finished second usually but i think we will this time.

The worst thing out of this is the NHLPA will use this as negotiating leverage and say small market teams are doing fine and compete.

Also the Flames organization has a few more millions to spend and that could keep them ahead of us as well..
Disagree, the NHLPA argument doesn't stand. The Flames lost millions this year and for Tampa to keep that team together 5 years from now it will be insanely pricey... Besides, neither of these teams have been consistantly competitive. Tampa may yet but Calgary was just a Cinderella team

And the Flames lost money even after the playoff run so I wouldn't worry about them going out UFA shopping

s7ark is offline  
Old
06-08-2004, 10:33 AM
  #27
Digger12
Registered User
 
Digger12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Defending the border
Posts: 14,497
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by speeds
I don't really think one could make an argument that the NHLPA would be wrong in that assertion.

The competitive balance of the NHL is actually good; it's the economic side of the game that teams are struggling with moreso, IMO.

Cup finalists in the past 7 years:

TB and CAL
NJ and ANA
DET and CAR
COL and NJ
NJ and DAL
DAL and BUF
DET and WAS

pretty good balance, IMO.
The problem comes, though, when the economic side inhibits the poorer teams from REMAINING competitive.

Even with the Flames getting to game 7 of the finals, they're still only going to make a small profit at best...they'd be insane to be budgeting for similar results every year. Will they take this windfall and invest it into keeping Iginla and Kiprusoff around, or do they pocket it as a small recompense for the huge losses they've eaten over the last decade?

Digger12 is offline  
Old
06-08-2004, 10:35 AM
  #28
copperandblue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,724
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by speeds
I don't really think one could make an argument that the NHLPA would be wrong in that assertion.

The competitive balance of the NHL is actually good; it's the economic side of the game that teams are struggling with moreso, IMO.

Cup finalists in the past 7 years:

TB and CAL
NJ and ANA
DET and CAR
COL and NJ
NJ and DAL
DAL and BUF
DET and WAS

pretty good balance, IMO.
The SCF's are simply a snapshot of a bigger picture imo. All that this snapshot demonstrates to me is that once you get to the playoffs anything can happen.

The problem I have with this "competetive balance" argument is that the same 7 or 8 teams - through big money - have consistantly dominated the regular season enough to ensure their opportunity in the playoffs. In other words they have all virtually gauranteed themselves a shot at the stanley cup.

Where as the other 8 or 9 teams that make the dance do so while fighting it out with the remaining 22-23 teams.

Once you get past the top 8, the odds are much tougher for a team to win.

copperandblue is offline  
Old
06-08-2004, 10:49 AM
  #29
copperandblue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,724
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
the 1-4 teams are supposed to filter out and re-build... well that hasn't happend forever in the NHL.
Actually the top teams have rebuilt since the time they first climbed to the top.

For all the arguments that suggest you can't spend money to build a winner I would say that at the very least you can spend money to maintain a winner.

In the 70's when Montreal won 5 in a row they had 14 players that were on the team the year they first won and stayed through till they won their last cup.

In the 80's when the Islanders won 4 in a row they had 15 players in the same situation.

From the mid 90's till now, NJ has won 3 cups and dominated the standings but only had a grand total of 4 players that remained through all of them. Colorado won two cups and dominated the standings and have had a whopping 3 players from the start till now. Detroit is 6.

All three of these teams have essentially rebuilt, none of them have trimmed payroll (infact overall they increased in payroll), none have really gotten any younger. This flies in the face of what has traditionally been the cycle of a hockey team. Build with inexpensive youth, get better older and more expensive, peak, rebuild with youth and in the process get cheaper thus starting over again.

For the amount of change that has occured on these teams, all of them should have had some sort of tumble in the standings. None have.

copperandblue is offline  
Old
06-08-2004, 10:57 AM
  #30
goldenchild
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Howard 100
Country: India
Posts: 535
vCash: 500
I haven't been around here for a while and haven't really posted since we were ousted from the playoffs but I don't buy into this logic that if your an oilers fan you had to cheer against the Flames. there is nothing really unlikeable about that team, i can't think of a group that played that hard every 2nd night for that long. In the end they just didn't have the legs last night.

Plus I lived in Kamloops for 7 years or so and when I was there both Jerome and Regehr played for the Blazers, my bro went to HS with Regehr and I knew a lot of people that new Jerome both guys are very good people, my heart sank for them. Darryl Sutter is a class act, the team gave evrything they had. Calgary should be very proud of that squad though I am sure they are almost numb with the pain of being so close. As an Eagles fan that has watched his team lose 3 straight NFC championship games I certainly understand that pain.

goldenchild is offline  
Old
06-08-2004, 11:36 AM
  #31
Slats432
Registered User
 
Slats432's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,442
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenchild
I haven't been around here for a while and haven't really posted since we were ousted from the playoffs but I don't buy into this logic that if your an oilers fan you had to cheer against the Flames.
The logic behind cheering against the Flames was created here...and for some people won't ever go away.


Last edited by Slats432: 04-25-2007 at 04:20 PM.
Slats432 is offline  
Old
06-08-2004, 12:03 PM
  #32
oil slick
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Bachul
The logic behind cheering against the Flames was created here...and for some people won't ever go away.
I beg to differ... To me, it was created from watching amazing series in the 80's that bred a rivalry that will last forever. It was a rivalry based on the fact that we both had amazing teams that were competative, that we both had fans that were hockey smart, and based on the fact that growing up, you had to know personaly plenty of people from the neighbouring city.

These boards may have put logic behind the rivalry but it definately existed long before these boards, and will still last independant of them.

And I for one think its a great thing. I'd prefer not to limit my rivalry towards Dallas, where the people of the city couldn't care less, but I think its great to foster an intense rivalry with your neighbours. So long as it doesn't get out of hand, I think it's a lot of fun.

oil slick is online now  
Old
06-08-2004, 12:14 PM
  #33
dawgbone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,104
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to dawgbone Send a message via MSN to dawgbone
he didn't mean "here" as in on these boards, he meant "here" as in those pictures he attached.

You are talking about the same thing he is, except he used pictures.

__________________
TheSpecialist - MacT thinks he was that good of a hockey player when in actuality he was no better then a Louie Debrusk.
dawgbone is offline  
Old
06-08-2004, 12:15 PM
  #34
Walsher
Registered User
 
Walsher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 5,339
vCash: 500
Hopefully all the Oilers fans who jumped on the bandwagon of Calgary didn't hurt themselves jumping off after the loss. Any Oilers fan cheering for Calgary should be taken out back and beaten. "Oh but they are the only Canadian team left" BS - they are the Flames!! ABC - Anybody but Calgary! Hell hasn't frozen over just yet but it must have been pretty cold for a few days.

Walsher is offline  
Old
06-08-2004, 12:17 PM
  #35
Digger12
Registered User
 
Digger12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Defending the border
Posts: 14,497
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by oil slick
I beg to differ... To me, it was created from watching amazing series in the 80's that bred a rivalry that will last forever. It was a rivalry based on the fact that we both had amazing teams that were competative, that we both had fans that were hockey smart, and based on the fact that growing up, you had to know personaly plenty of people from the neighbouring city.

These boards may have put logic behind the rivalry but it definately existed long before these boards, and will still last independant of them.

And I for one think its a great thing. I'd prefer not to limit my rivalry towards Dallas, where the people of the city couldn't care less, but I think its great to foster an intense rivalry with your neighbours. So long as it doesn't get out of hand, I think it's a lot of fun.
And I beg to agree.

Imagine if this board had been around back in the mid-80's? Man oh man.

It would've been outright WAR. :mad:

Digger12 is offline  
Old
06-08-2004, 12:17 PM
  #36
Slats432
Registered User
 
Slats432's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,442
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
he didn't mean "here" as in on these boards, he meant "here" as in those pictures he attached.

You are talking about the same thing he is, except he used pictures.
What he said.

Slats432 is offline  
Old
06-08-2004, 12:19 PM
  #37
Doug Who?
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 77
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by oil slick
I beg to differ... To me, it was created from watching amazing series in the 80's that bred a rivalry that will last forever. It was a rivalry based on the fact that we both had amazing teams that were competative, that we both had fans that were hockey smart, and based on the fact that growing up, you had to know personaly plenty of people from the neighbouring city.

These boards may have put logic behind the rivalry but it definately existed long before these boards, and will still last independant of them.

And I for one think its a great thing. I'd prefer not to limit my rivalry towards Dallas, where the people of the city couldn't care less, but I think its great to foster an intense rivalry with your neighbours. So long as it doesn't get out of hand, I think it's a lot of fun.
Forgive me if I'm wrong but I think that by "here" he was referring to the attached pictures. Which, in line with your comments, depict Flames from the 80's. I agree too, the rivalry was built in the 80's and for some of us will persist indefinitely. I for one will certainly be watching the Battle of Alberta with a renewed interest.

Doug Who? is offline  
Old
06-08-2004, 12:22 PM
  #38
oil slick
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Bachul
What he said.
ahem. well don't I look the fool. OK - what does everyone say to forgetting my last little comment.

By the way - I've moved out of Edmonton, but was really distressed by reports that Edmonton was cheering for the Flames... was there really that many people cheering for them?

oil slick is online now  
Old
06-08-2004, 12:28 PM
  #39
s7ark
LeonTheProfessional
 
s7ark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,471
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walsher
Hopefully all the Oilers fans who jumped on the bandwagon of Calgary didn't hurt themselves jumping off after the loss. Any Oilers fan cheering for Calgary should be taken out back and beaten. "Oh but they are the only Canadian team left" BS - they are the Flames!! ABC - Anybody but Calgary! Hell hasn't frozen over just yet but it must have been pretty cold for a few days.

I would have to put TO a bit lower then Calgary but I would never cheer for either. Oiler blood through and through baby!!!!

s7ark is offline  
Old
06-08-2004, 12:32 PM
  #40
Walsher
Registered User
 
Walsher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 5,339
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by oil slick
ahem. well don't I look the fool. OK - what does everyone say to forgetting my last little comment.

By the way - I've moved out of Edmonton, but was really distressed by reports that Edmonton was cheering for the Flames... was there really that many people cheering for them?
I would highly doubt any true Oilers fans would ever be cheering for CGY. But there are always the on again off again fans who still think Winnipeg has a franchise because they barely follow hockey but call themselves Oilers fans who may have jumped ship for the run. I would bet most of the people in Edmonton who were cheering for the Flames were Flames fans all along just too embarrassed to admit it - who can blame them. I wouldn't have cheered for the Flames if they were out of Leduc let alone CGY. IMO it is like a young 12 year old boy at school. They always have an enemy that they just hate. Now if both kids had a crush on one girl and the enemy started going out with her would that little boy think "good for him, her deserves to go out with her he hasn't had a girlfriend in a long time. I think I will be pulling for them to go all the way together" or does he hate him even more than before? I would bet the latter. I know personally I always cheer against those I hate no matter what they are doing. To cheer for Calgary would be completely assinine!

Walsher is offline  
Old
06-08-2004, 12:35 PM
  #41
Italian Oiler
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Varese
Country: Italy
Posts: 104
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Italian Oiler Send a message via MSN to Italian Oiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMenace
I forgot what it's like to actually care who wins the cup.
My fear was I couldn't use this one any more...

Q: What's the difference between the Flames and a bra?
A: A bra has more cups...



Italian Oiler is offline  
Old
06-08-2004, 02:46 PM
  #42
hockeyaddict101
Registered User
 
hockeyaddict101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 19,903
vCash: 500
I hated the "ancient history" quotes from Flames fans

Our 5 cups didn't count for anything because they were in the 80's

A losers lament, what else are teams going to say with less Cups or less success.

Well guess what Calgary fans your ONE cup is "Ancient History" and you have won nothing since!! Who remembers the runners up?

They will be remembered as only the sixth team in NHL history to BLOW a 3-2 series lead!! in the Stanley Cup final.

hockeyaddict101 is offline  
Old
06-08-2004, 04:55 PM
  #43
looooob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,886
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark
Disagree, the NHLPA argument doesn't stand. The Flames lost millions this year and for Tampa to keep that team together 5 years from now it will be insanely pricey... Besides, neither of these teams have been consistantly competitive. Tampa may yet but Calgary was just a Cinderella team

And the Flames lost money even after the playoff run so I wouldn't worry about them going out UFA shopping
'
I'm just curious do you have information confirming that the Flames lost millions of dollars this year? that seems to go against what I've read, for example this:
"We will turn a profit this year," says Flames president Ken King. But along with the celebration comes the muted reality of the tough economics of the game.

Have the Flames lost alot of money over the last half decade? yes
Will the Flames be in tough to make the playoffs next year? yes
Will the Oilers? I think so
Personally I'm not sure (depending where the CBA goes) that anyone outside of San Jose is a 'lock' for the playoffs next year.

but anyways I digress. Is there proof the Flames lost money this year? because if they did despite 12 home playoff games, phenomenal merchandise sales (and I realize the team doesn't keep the profits on anything sold outside of the Fanattic, other than the first week of the red jersey) then that's bad news for most teams in markets this size, I would think

by the way I do agree with your point, that the success of Calgary/T Bay/San Jose in this playoffs does not bolster an NHLPA argument that all is well in the world

looooob is offline  
Old
06-08-2004, 07:33 PM
  #44
s7ark
LeonTheProfessional
 
s7ark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,471
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by looooob
'
I'm just curious do you have information confirming that the Flames lost millions of dollars this year? that seems to go against what I've read, for example this:
"We will turn a profit this year," says Flames president Ken King. But along with the celebration comes the muted reality of the tough economics of the game.

Have the Flames lost alot of money over the last half decade? yes
Will the Flames be in tough to make the playoffs next year? yes
Will the Oilers? I think so
Personally I'm not sure (depending where the CBA goes) that anyone outside of San Jose is a 'lock' for the playoffs next year.

but anyways I digress. Is there proof the Flames lost money this year? because if they did despite 12 home playoff games, phenomenal merchandise sales (and I realize the team doesn't keep the profits on anything sold outside of the Fanattic, other than the first week of the red jersey) then that's bad news for most teams in markets this size, I would think

by the way I do agree with your point, that the success of Calgary/T Bay/San Jose in this playoffs does not bolster an NHLPA argument that all is well in the world
Yeah I have since been corrected on that. I thought I read an article online that said that even if calagary played vevery home game possible inthe playoffs they would still be a bit short. But apparently I was wrong and I can't find that article anymore.

The merchandise is definately a boost as well.

I retract my statement of the Flames losing money this year.

s7ark is offline  
Old
06-08-2004, 07:36 PM
  #45
Superfluous U
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: At a Stone Prison on a Hill
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,036
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Italian Oiler
My fear was I couldn't use this one any more...

Q: What's the difference between the Flames and a bra?
A: A bra has more cups...


I know. I had to use it before overtime in Game 6 because I didn't know if I would get to again.

Superfluous U is offline  
Old
06-08-2004, 07:37 PM
  #46
Loweball
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 1,932
vCash: 500
I forgot about that long headed Peplinski. One look at that guy brought all the hatred back.

only guy worse you could have put on there was Tim Hunter.

Loweball is offline  
Old
06-08-2004, 09:31 PM
  #47
kraigus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Waterloo, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,173
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to kraigus Send a message via MSN to kraigus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edmund Oiler
I forgot about that long headed Peplinski. One look at that guy brought all the hatred back.

only guy worse you could have put on there was Tim Hunter.
I was wondering what happened to Theo Fleury and Lanny MacMustache, myself.

kraigus is offline  
Old
06-09-2004, 01:31 AM
  #48
guymez
The Seldom Seen Kid
 
guymez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,688
vCash: 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edmund Oiler
I forgot about that long headed Peplinski. One look at that guy brought all the hatred back.

only guy worse you could have put on there was Tim Hunter.
One Flame player that brings back the hatred for me is Doug Risebrough.
Especially the "shredding Oiler jersey incident". A classic moment in Oiler/Flame rivalry archives.

guymez is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:32 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.