Agree with 04 above. Also though your just as likely to draft a starter from the 1st round than the later ones. Broduer-1st round Belfour-late rounder Hasek-late round/not picked. (Not sure which.)
Teams draft goalies in the 1st round for basically 2 reasons:
1) They currently have average to poor NHL goaltending now and none of their other goalie prospects are that good
2) Their current #1 goalie is likely to retire or his play has been dropping, so you are preparing for the transition.
You have to ask yourself who were TB's goalies in 2006 at the NHL level and who were their best goalie prospects at the time? TB management made the decision to take a goalie in 2006 because they thought Riku would develop into a top notch NHL goalie. I don't follow TB per se, but I read the news that he was being assigned to a Swedish club team and that caught my attention.
And to those who make the comment of being able to get a goalie past round 1, well, there are 7 rounds to a draft, so it's obviously going to skew things because the majority of players in the NHL were not taken in round 1.
Drafting goalies requires patience, lots of it. You have to give the kid time to finish Junior/play through his Sophomore/Junior NCAA years/ or play 2-3 more years at a European men's league after he gets drafted because you assign him to the minors to develop for 2-3 more years.
1st round goalies also have the pressure of making it to the NHL sooner. Remember, 2 years ago, when the Kings started the season in the O2 arena in the UK, Bernier was with the big club and some Kings fans even felt he could be their #2 goalie that year. Bernier, rightfully, was returned to junior and is currently in his 2nd full year in the AHL developing his game, and next season he should make the LA roster and challenge Quick for playing time.
The NHL club has to resist the temptation to bring the kid up too early. Fluery was up in the NHL before his time. Perhaps Mason and Price were rushed up, but they have great rookie years, but slumped horribly in year 2. Price is still fighting to be the guy in Montreal.
As for the draft, it usually takes 1 team to make a goalie selection that triggers everything else. Once LA took Bernier in 2006, that's when TB, WAshington, and Calgary moved on their goalies in round 1. None went in round 1 in 2007 or 2009. 2008 saw 2 go in round 1 after Nashville took Pickard, and FLA and STL took Markstrom and Allen with the 1st and 4th pick in round 2. As for 2010, who knows. You might see some action with a couple of clubs like Vancouver with Schneider, Washington with Neuvirth, Buffalo with Enroth, and Montreal with either Halak/Price make a deal with a team needing a younger goalie. If that happens, you might not see a goalie go in round 1 or just 1 go.
Guys like Lundqvist, Miller, Kipprusoff, etc. down the line didn't have the pressure to come in and save the team. They were mid round picks and could develop in the AHL. Miller played 3 years at Michigan State, then played a couple full years in the AHL to hone his craft.
As a Canucks fans, I see the same comments on the Canucks board about Cory Schneider. But in 2004, the Nucks had Cloutier and Auld as their NHL goalies and none of their other goalie prospects had any NHL promises. Who knew, 2 years later the Nucks would trade for Luongo. So, Schneider has had the opportunity to develop properly in the AHL. In the 2004 draft, there were about 35 goalies taken from that draft, Dubnyk from the Oilers is still around with their team, Montoya was moved to the Coyotes and didn't make their team, and Schwarz from the Blues is back in Europe I believe. Pekka Rinne is the only goalie who is playing in the NHL I believe. I think Schneider would be in the NHL now, if he wasn't with the Nucks. But, they haven't found the right deal for him yet.
So, drafting a goalie in round 4 or 5 isn't a guarantee either. You just hope that if you draft a goalie in round 5-7 each year, you might get lucky and find one.
Teams draft goalies in the 1st round for basically 2 reasons:
1) They currently have average to poor NHL goaltending now and none of their other goalie prospects are that good
2) Their current #1 goalie is likely to retire or his play has been dropping, so you are preparing for the transition.
1) check
2)check
He wasn't a bad pick at the time. Khabibulin was gone, Grahame wasn't the answer and Burke was near retirement. Both were replaced after the season. Our prospects were Koshechkin, Ramo, Boutin, Eklund, Norrena, and Coleman. None you would have thought at the time could be a number 1 goalie. We were desperate enough to trade Modin for Denis and almost Vinny for Luongo. I think Helenius would still be here if Janus and Tokarski weren't so darn good.
Last edited by TheDaysOf 04: 01-24-2010 at 08:13 PM.
Also in terms of goalies, they are always competing for fewer places in the NHL then any other players. Barring injuries there are 60 goalie spots open in the NHL. Thats not a lot to work with. Furthermore, depending on luck can depend on how much a goalie plays when he is developing. Finally, NHL players and coaches have the ability to scout out a goalie's weaknesses that they might otherwise be able to compensate for in junior with athleticism or positioning.
It'll probably look very similar to who was at the prospect camp.
The problem I see with your list, is that it's looking too much like next season's Norfolk Admirals. I believe the rule in the past has been a max. of 4 players w/pro games played. I'm not sure if it's a specific game limit or not, but teams in the past, that I've looked at, haven't been very seasoned.
And possibly no college players (Mullin, Killorn, Witkowski, O'Donnell, Gotovets, Marshall, etc.) because of NCAA rules over things like this. If any do come, they'll be paying for the trip themselves.
Gudas is probably a lock at this point. And while everybody is high on Tokarski, I'd rather see what Janus can do.
I'd also expect to see Ashton and Harju, as they've technically them under contract. It'll be a good chance to show SFY whether they're ready to make the jump or not.
Last edited by Felonious Python: 08-09-2010 at 09:48 PM.
Now that you mention it, I don't think we see many if any NCAA guys. I wasn't aware of the roster rules for the tournament as I've never followed it too closely. With the tournament starting Sept. 11 I suspect we'll here the roster in the next few weeks. At least Dallas and Detrioit have announced their rosters already.
Now that you mention it, I don't think we see many if any NCAA guys. I wasn't aware of the roster rules for the tournament as I've never followed it too closely. With the tournament starting Sept. 11 I suspect we'll here the roster in the next few weeks. At least Dallas and Detrioit have announced their rosters already.
I'll quote, but update what the Thrashers website wrote last year about the rules, for the sake of clarity:
Quote:
Per tournament rules, each team may have a maximum of four players with one year of professional experience. In order to participate, all skaters must have been born no later than 1986; goalies are exempt from this rule.
The CBA specifies that being on a roster for 40 games, (or 30 for goalies) is 1 pro season. Carolina is carrying at least 3 guys who fit that description. The 4th may be in there somewhere, but I don't care enough about their roster to look.
Lightning prospects who should qualify as rookies (and are not currently in the NCAA) are: Connolly, Ashton, Panik, Hutchings, Barbiero, Beukeboom, Janosik, Gudas, Schemitsch, Zador, and Zahn.
- Unless I made a mistake of course. I'm also not sure what does and doesn't count for European games played. Either way, we'd still get to bring 4 "overage" guys.
But that's not a lot of players. 4 forwards, 6 d-men, and 1 goalie. Even if we brought along the four experienced players, it's still not a full roster. Free agent try-outs for the rest?
Last edited by Felonious Python: 08-10-2010 at 12:49 PM.
The news article I saw with the Red Wings roster has since taken the roster down and now says the final roster is still being finalized. Some participating are Thomas McCollum, Brendan Smith, and Landon Ferraro.
Andrew Agozzino *
Carter Ashton
Brett Connolly
Mitch Fadden
Alex Hutchings
Brandon Hynes *
Jonathan Lessard *
Tim Marks *
Richard Panik
Doug Rogers *
Dana Tyrell
Marc-Olivier Vachon *
James Wright
Matt Butcher *
Defense:
Mark Barberio
Brock Beukeboom
Radko Gudas
Adam Janosik
Geoffrey Schemitsch
Teigan Zahn
Goaltenders:
Vachon will be with us in the tournament per RDS. He is an interesting player. Captain of the Voltigeurs and won the President Cup in 2009 with Guy Boucher. Last season he had a 30 goal 74 point season and won the Guy-Carbonneau Trophy for best defensive forward in the qmjhl.
Last edited by TheDaysOf 04: 08-17-2010 at 12:23 PM.
At 5 feet 8 inches tall he is far from a sizeable forward that would crush people along the boards. However being only a month older than the number 2 ranked prospect in the 2011 entry draft Sean Couturier he tied him with goals with 41, both ranked 4th overall in most goals in the QMJHL.
As an undrafted free agent he came into the prospect camp and raised a few eyebrows with his hat trick and is now on the teams roster for the up coming prospect tourny in Traverse city.
While his 75 points in 68 games in the QMJHL might not seem world class talent, it should however be noted that he was one of the youngest in the whole draft, and some how he slipped through the cracks. I kinda look at him as a low risk high reward type of player. He seems to be a guy that has a nose for the puck and another year of growing could do the kid wonders. In the end, he may seem to be a first round talent that was completely overlooked. I personally would like us to jump on board and offer the kid a contract before he becomes eligable for next seasons draft.
My biggest question is how much more to his game is there other than putting up the points in the qmjhl. I don't know much about him but if he has a very well rounded game then I wouldn't mind taking a chance on him.
If he performs well in Traverse City then I would have no objections to handing him a contract and then sending him back to juniors. Tampa has plenty of cap space and it can't hurt to add a sleeper prospect to the depth chart.
My biggest question is how much more to his game is there other than putting up the points in the qmjhl. I don't know much about him but if he has a very well rounded game then I wouldn't mind taking a chance on him.
I agree, I dont know much about him either. I think the biggest factor against him though is his size. Hes a small guy, then again he could also be one of those guys that has a late growth spurt. Either way, if he tears it up in the prospect tournament then I would love to see him signed. It never hurts having a filled pipeline.
