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Panthers 'Worst case' projection: No Playoffs For Next 3 Years

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Old
10-09-2010, 03:09 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BabyJagrov View Post
Burke traded his picks and assets to get his two "franchise" players... Tallon is waiting and will draft his two, without giving the assets... That's what I was saying, I also wanted to point out that the LEafs will be competitive in year-two of the Burke's plan, and that's what I expect with Tallon's plan too !

I just compared the two for the time period... Burke chose the trades and free agency, Tallon chose the draft (his trades were made toward the draft) and free agency... They'll both get it right, and have a playoff team sooner than later !
Burke passed on his franchise player in Seguin, or Hall, when he traded the picks for Kessel. While Kessel is good, I would take either one of those two youngster over him, especially when we have a lot of wholes on the team. If you are referring to Dion as the other franchise player, I think you are stretching that a bit. Dion is not a franchise Dman, at least in my eyes.

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10-09-2010, 03:15 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
Burke passed on his franchise player in Seguin, or Hall, when he traded the picks for Kessel. While Kessel is good, I would take either one of those two youngster over him, especially when we have a lot of wholes on the team. If you are referring to Dion as the other franchise player, I think you are stretching that a bit. Dion is not a franchise Dman, at least in my eyes.
Agreed, was trying to figure out who the other franchise player on the leafs he was talking about, and well, I couldn't think of anybody.

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10-09-2010, 04:23 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BabyJagrov View Post
Burke traded his picks and assets to get his two "franchise" players... Tallon is waiting and will draft his two, without giving the assets... That's what I was saying, I also wanted to point out that the LEafs will be competitive in year-two of the Burke's plan, and that's what I expect with Tallon's plan too !

I just compared the two for the time period... Burke chose the trades and free agency, Tallon chose the draft (his trades were made toward the draft) and free agency... They'll both get it right, and have a playoff team sooner than later !
A big problem with Burke's plan though is that he doesn't have his franchise players on ELCs which will take away cap space. That won't be a problem making the playoffs, but it will be hard to win a Cup with that formula.

To win a Cup now, teams basically need talented players on cheap deals. Kessel and Phaneuf are both on expensive deals, and Schenn's ELC will expire after next year.

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10-09-2010, 04:36 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BabyJagrov View Post
Burke traded his picks and assets to get his two "franchise" players... Tallon is waiting and will draft his two, without giving the assets... That's what I was saying, I also wanted to point out that the LEafs will be competitive in year-two of the Burke's plan, and that's what I expect with Tallon's plan too !

I just compared the two for the time period... Burke chose the trades and free agency, Tallon chose the draft (his trades were made toward the draft) and free agency... They'll both get it right, and have a playoff team sooner than later !
OK gotcha, I misunderstood you. I'm still not sure about Burke's plan. We will have to see and I'll admit if I'm wrong, but I think it's going to crash and burn on him. The Leafs will be competitive this season but I don't think they're going to make the playoffs. I really don't know when they will. This is exactly what Tallon is trying to avoid, being a "competitive" team that doesn't make the playoffs or when they are lucky enough to, loses in the first round. I wouldn't be surprised if Burke's plan fails and he gets booted out of Toronto in a few years.

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10-09-2010, 04:42 PM
  #30
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Don't know if the team will survive another 3 years

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10-09-2010, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by SensFan26 View Post
Don't know if the team will survive another 3 years
it'll survive. Has to be here another 20.

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10-09-2010, 05:14 PM
  #32
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Well it seems like he's doing things Blackhawk style... tank for four years, get stupidly high draft picks, get a cheap core all at once, one and done and then re-build again.

I'm hoping he's learned something from the dismantling of the Hawks

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10-09-2010, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Booootthh View Post
Agreed, was trying to figure out who the other franchise player on the leafs he was talking about, and well, I couldn't think of anybody.
Phaneuf is the new Leafs captain... I hope Burke considers him as one of his franchise players, if not THE franchise player...

I'd rather have Gudbranson and Couturier/Nugent-Hopkins than Phaneuf and Kessel... That says a lot, because I'm a big believer in Kessel, Phaneuf and Burkie !

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10-09-2010, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Winroba View Post
Well it seems like he's doing things Blackhawk style... tank for four years, get stupidly high draft picks, get a cheap core all at once, one and done and then re-build again.

I'm hoping he's learned something from the dismantling of the Hawks
I really don't think he's going to be giving out any Huet-Campbell dumb style contracts here. First of all, he doesn't have the money.

Really though, the Hawks will be one of the top teams in the league again, and they have a great prospect pool now from all the trades they made to get under the cap this summer. A lot of teams would like to switch places with them. The Hawks aren't going to be "rebuilding" again anytime soon, not in that sense anyway.

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10-09-2010, 05:22 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by BabyJagrov View Post
Phaneuf is the new Leafs captain... I hope Burke considers him as one of his franchise players, if not THE franchise player...
He's just not a franchise player though. Burke fails, one cannot try to rationalize his moves.

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I'd rather have Gudbranson and Couturier/Nugent-Hopkins than Phaneuf and Kessel... That says a lot, because I'm a big believer in Kessel, Phaneuf and Burkie !
That's because you are a rational person, and that's what Burke doesn't understand. You can't build a team around players like Phaneuf and Kessel. They should be secondary pieces on a contending team, not the primary pieces.

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10-09-2010, 05:46 PM
  #36
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I read his "3 years" as a conservative budgetary plan to present to investors, and not his ACTUAL expectation of performance. SSE LLLP has other facets, not just hockey, but Viner explains that if/when hockey gets a more competitive product, the total financial picture will improve substantially, and make a profit. This is the pitch to attract investors, of course. So I think the 3 years is a comment mostly to the financial people interested in investing. It's not a worst case scenario, but it's intentionally conservative. My interpretation: Viner does not expect playoffs this year but he does expect them next year.

Viner also makes the interesting point that a lot of contracts are expiring after this season, and there will be more freedom. So I think he's thinking that a) there will be more room to sign people including FAs, and b) there may be or should be more money (closer to cap) if investor interest is captured sufficiently.

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10-09-2010, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
it'll survive. Has to be here another 20.
It will survive, if not in South Florida, then in somewhere else, BankAtlantic center lease is not a problem.

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10-09-2010, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by KWGoon View Post
I read his "3 years" as a conservative budgetary plan to present to investors, and not his ACTUAL expectation of performance. SSE LLLP has other facets, not just hockey, but Viner explains that if/when hockey gets a more competitive product, the total financial picture will improve substantially, and make a profit. This is the pitch to attract investors, of course. So I think the 3 years is a comment mostly to the financial people interested in investing. It's not a worst case scenario, but it's intentionally conservative. My interpretation: Viner does not expect playoffs this year but he does expect them next year.

Viner also makes the interesting point that a lot of contracts are expiring after this season, and there will be more freedom. So I think he's thinking that a) there will be more room to sign people including FAs, and b) there may be or should be more money (closer to cap) if investor interest is captured sufficiently.
Good point, I hope so.

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10-09-2010, 05:54 PM
  #39
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He mentions 10000 season ticket holders:

"We're 10 years out of the playoffs and we're going to have 10,000 season ticket holders this year ... Now, granted our pricing is still way too low. Way too low. We've not been able to give the value proposition."

Does that mean 10000 full season ticket plans, i.e. 10000 x 41 tickets have been sold or something else?
Pricing is low, you can get lower bowl tickets for opening night, at $25-$30.

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10-09-2010, 05:55 PM
  #40
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Am I the only one who reads critically? He didnt say "we dont think we will make the playoffs for three years." He said "[a]nd yet our projections assume no playoffs for the next three years." What he is referring to is their cash flow projections, specifically within the context of attracting new ownership to invest in the team to fund their negative cash flow. He also specifically said that this is the "most conservative position." What that means is that as he tries to bring in new owners to help fund the negative cash flow problems, he is offering them a worst case scenario of not making the playoffs for 3 years.

So I dont think you can say they have given up on making the playoffs this or the next 2 seasons. It wouldn't surprise me if that happened, but its not their plan. Everybody knows the team is rebuilding so I would say sit back and enjoy the process. Its actually nice imo to have a little time to not be focused on team results and to focus on individual player results. Imo a successful season will be to have a 30 goal scorer and 3 20 goal scorers, and to have a handful of people traded at the deadline in order to drum up more picks for the draft and further stockpile the team. It would also be nice to add another top 5 pick to further add scoring talent. Either way, if you wanna be miserable keep thinking playoffs or bust. If you wanna enjoy the season then start focusing on individual player development.

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10-09-2010, 06:04 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BabyJagrov View Post
Phaneuf is the new Leafs captain... I hope Burke considers him as one of his franchise players, if not THE franchise player...

I'd rather have Gudbranson and Couturier/Nugent-Hopkins than Phaneuf and Kessel... That says a lot, because I'm a big believer in Kessel, Phaneuf and Burkie !
Just because he is the captain, doesnt mean he is a franchise player (which I am not saying that is what you are saying). Dion is extremely overrated, and there are A LOT of Dmen that I would take over him. His big hits put him into a category, by some, in which he in no way belongs.

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10-09-2010, 06:08 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Panther View Post
What he is referring to is their cash flow projections, specifically within the context of attracting new ownership to invest in the team to fund their negative cash flow. He also specifically said that this is the "most conservative position." What that means is that as he tries to bring in new owners to help fund the negative cash flow problems, he is offering them a worst case scenario of not making the playoffs for 3 years.
I think they really need to get new owners/investors, earlier in "Business of hockey" forum somebody mentioned that Panthers two new owners (now only one left) have 18-24 months to pay out Cohen and if it doesn't happen ownership returns to Cohen.
I will try to locate that quote.

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10-09-2010, 06:26 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by jol View Post
I think they really need to get new owners/investors, earlier in "Business of hockey" forum somebody mentioned that Panthers two new owners (now only one left) have 18-24 months to pay out Cohen and if it doesn't happen ownership returns to Cohen.
I will try to locate that quote.

JOL
I sure hope Viner comes up with the money, because no way should Alan Cohen ever return to run this team after all the damage he did.

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10-09-2010, 06:28 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by jol View Post
It will survive, if not in South Florida, then in somewhere else, BankAtlantic center lease is not a problem.

JOL
Would take a minor fortune to break, it's not a small barrier. Team's not going anywhere anytime soon.

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10-09-2010, 06:54 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by SensFan26 View Post
Don't know if the team will survive another 3 years
Ofc the team will survive! You don't move a team that doesn't make the post-season in over 10 years. The team is the problem, NOT the location!

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10-09-2010, 07:29 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Would take a minor fortune to break, it's not a small barrier. Team's not going anywhere anytime soon.
How much that fortune would be, close to zero like in Phoenix, how many years they had on their lease and most likely NHL will move team from Phoenix (Glendale) after this season. Or maybe city of Glendale become owner of team.

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10-09-2010, 09:33 PM
  #47
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Way to show confidence in ur team.. WTF was the point of this interview

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10-09-2010, 11:29 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by harv3317 View Post
this team is going from bad to worse. there is no place in the world that a team would prosper with our history of success. they just don't get it!!!!! provide a winner with a winning atmosphere and the fans will come!!!! this team is a constant rebuild with no chance of winning!!!!! that's the way to build up a fan base!!!!!
This comes from Viner talking about budgeting for a three year financial plan. He plans on not making the playoffs which is smart. If you ran this franchise we would be broke. What would you do, count on playoff money for the budget this year? You are a teacher right? I hope to god you are not teaching finance.

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10-09-2010, 11:40 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by SensFan26 View Post
Don't know if the team will survive another 3 years
Could say that about the Sens too. This is do or die time right? What happens when Alfredson is gone and Spezza is traded. Your team is the "Nordiques of Ontario".

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10-09-2010, 11:45 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by King Panther View Post
Am I the only one who reads critically? He didnt say "we dont think we will make the playoffs for three years." He said "[a]nd yet our projections assume no playoffs for the next three years." What he is referring to is their cash flow projections, specifically within the context of attracting new ownership to invest in the team to fund their negative cash flow. He also specifically said that this is the "most conservative position." What that means is that as he tries to bring in new owners to help fund the negative cash flow problems, he is offering them a worst case scenario of not making the playoffs for 3 years.

So I dont think you can say they have given up on making the playoffs this or the next 2 seasons. It wouldn't surprise me if that happened, but its not their plan. Everybody knows the team is rebuilding so I would say sit back and enjoy the process. Its actually nice imo to have a little time to not be focused on team results and to focus on individual player results. Imo a successful season will be to have a 30 goal scorer and 3 20 goal scorers, and to have a handful of people traded at the deadline in order to drum up more picks for the draft and further stockpile the team. It would also be nice to add another top 5 pick to further add scoring talent. Either way, if you wanna be miserable keep thinking playoffs or bust. If you wanna enjoy the season then start focusing on individual player development.

People don't read much before spewing their opinions unfortunately.

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