HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Florida Panthers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Panthers 'Worst case' projection: No Playoffs For Next 3 Years

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-10-2010, 03:34 AM
  #51
Acadmus
Moderator
 
Acadmus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Vermont
Country: United States
Posts: 15,407
vCash: 500
I edited your misleading thread title, GP...added the fact that this was a "worst case" scenario, not their actual projection.

__________________
"...and ultimately it doesn't matter."
Acadmus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2010, 06:16 AM
  #52
BabyJagrov
Registered User
 
BabyJagrov's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Under the Sunshine
Country: St Pierre and Miquelon
Posts: 3,270
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
Just because he is the captain, doesnt mean he is a franchise player (which I am not saying that is what you are saying). Dion is extremely overrated, and there are A LOT of Dmen that I would take over him. His big hits put him into a category, by some, in which he in no way belongs.
Dion and Phil get a hard reputation around here... They are great players ! To me Dion is the epitome of all the tools but no toolbox, and Kessel may be the second coming of Bure, all-speed all-goals... Add those two players to our team and we would be a great Eastern team right now !

But I think that just like and Viner, you want to be one of the top franchise in the League, a top organisation. We will get there, I'm looking forward to the Amerks situation being resolved, investors coming, money coming of the books next offseason, and a whole year of Tallon to build the foundation...

Then we enter next year with Gudbranson and our other lottery pick... And just like you I will love those two guys way more than Phaneuf and Kessel !

Like someone said we have to concentrate on individual development this year... Kulikov got to establish himself on the power-play and in physical play, Frolik got to show he has the hands, Booth got to prove he is back on track, Weiss must confirm he is a leader and a good character guy to build around, Garrison got to show he can be a player in this league, and on and on...

It will be interesting going forward to see who confirms and who fails ?

Tonight is the night guys !

BabyJagrov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2010, 04:07 AM
  #53
Blackhawkswincup
Global Moderator
 
Blackhawkswincup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Country: United States
Posts: 106,701
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
We also don't have the budget Philadelphia had. Ed Snider is one of the wealthiest owners in the league. That's why they were able to make all those moves.

If we are terrible this season though and get a top 3 pick, I really don't think it's going to take 3 years. We'd have way too much young talent for it to take that long.



There's no way Tallon is going to rebuild like Burke is trying to do. Tallon is going to build through the draft. He's said it many times before, he keeps saying it, and yet people still don't believe him. I don't know why. He did the same thing in Chicago and he said that's what he's going to do here. Burke thinks he can bypass the draft and try some new strategy. The two philosphies are completely at odds.
3 Players drafted by Tallon were on Hawks team that won the Stanley Cup last year

His drafting record is not as good as everyone assumes

Drafting = average
Trades = That is Tallon's specialty
Free agency = Tallon sucks with contracts ,,, Overpays and gives to much to players who come up with organization (Bolland contract good example along with Barker)

Another thing you will see is that Tallon will trade young players from previous regime (Any of your prospect from previous GM could go away)

In Chicago he traded Many Mike Smith draft picks or in case of almost every Russian purged them from organization

Traded Ruutu for Ladd
Traded Wisniewski for Pahlsson
Traded Leighton and Anderson
Traded Babchuk for an AHL caliber dman
Traded guys like Barinka , Kukkonen , Keith , etc (Guys that weren't that good --- Although Barinka has been good in Europe)

So if there is a young player he doesn't like he wont hesitate to move them in a package for someone else

Sometimes it works (Ladd , Sharp and Versteeg deals) ,,,,,, Sometimes it looks foolish later on (Babchuk and Anderson trades)


Last edited by Blackhawkswincup: 10-12-2010 at 04:13 AM.
Blackhawkswincup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2010, 04:31 AM
  #54
J17 Vs Proclamation
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Reading.
Country: South Korea
Posts: 7,862
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to J17 Vs Proclamation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
3 Players drafted by Tallon were on Hawks team that won the Stanley Cup last year

His drafting record is not as good as everyone assumes

Drafting = average
Trades = That is Tallon's specialty
Free agency = Tallon sucks with contracts ,,, Overpays and gives to much to players who come up with organization (Bolland contract good example along with Barker)

Another thing you will see is that Tallon will trade young players from previous regime (Any of your prospect from previous GM could go away)

In Chicago he traded Many Mike Smith draft picks or in case of almost every Russian purged them from organization

Traded Ruutu for Ladd
Traded Wisniewski for Pahlsson
Traded Leighton and Anderson
Traded Babchuk for an AHL caliber dman
Traded guys like Barinka , Kukkonen , Keith , etc (Guys that weren't that good --- Although Barinka has been good in Europe)

So if there is a young player he doesn't like he wont hesitate to move them in a package for someone else

Sometimes it works (Ladd , Sharp and Versteeg deals) ,,,,,, Sometimes it looks foolish later on (Babchuk and Anderson trades)
Tallon will not be able to hand out stupid contracts ; because we simply cannot A) afford such cotnracts B) Attract the big players that command thesse inflated contracts.

As for his drafting record ; you're underplaying the role of the scouts. Sure Tallon has a pretty large influence in the very early picks, but the quality of our scouting will still determine how well this rebuild goes to a large extent.

Assuming this rebuild goes to plan, it is probably a two year plan. The assumption is within that time frame Kulikov, Gudbranson and Markstrom will all in the NHL and producing to an acceptable level or better. You then assume that Florida is likely picking in the top Five both in 2011 and 2012 (which i think is a correct assumption, definitely this year) then you're looking likely at two prospects who are better than Gudbranson IMO. Acquiring a couple of high end Forward prospects in either of those years (Say, Nugent-Hopkins this, Yakupov next) you now have top end talent at all positions, and talents that are able to play at the NHL at a young age. Add those two high end picks + some of the young guys we have now + Booth/Weiss/Frolik and you have a core which follows the pattern of Chicago/LA etc.

The question is, can we utilize the high end picks we are going to have in the next two years better than we did in the early 2000's. Do we get another group like Weiss, Horton, Frolik, Olesz, Bouwmeester or do we end up with a Toews, Kane type core.

We just have to hope Kulikov, Gudbranson, Markstrom, Bjugstad + 2011 and 2012 1st round picks are >>>> the early 2000's. Do we become Chicago, Washington, Pittsburgh, LA or do we become Florida 2.0 or Columbus? Alot seems to rest upon player development and luck (i.e the particular draft).

J17 Vs Proclamation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2010, 07:12 AM
  #55
Laus723
Future Now
 
Laus723's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 27,095
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
3 Players drafted by Tallon were on Hawks team that won the Stanley Cup last year

His drafting record is not as good as everyone assumes

Drafting = average
Trades = That is Tallon's specialty
Free agency = Tallon sucks with contracts ,,, Overpays and gives to much to players who come up with organization (Bolland contract good example along with Barker)

Another thing you will see is that Tallon will trade young players from previous regime (Any of your prospect from previous GM could go away)

In Chicago he traded Many Mike Smith draft picks or in case of almost every Russian purged them from organization

Traded Ruutu for Ladd
Traded Wisniewski for Pahlsson
Traded Leighton and Anderson
Traded Babchuk for an AHL caliber dman
Traded guys like Barinka , Kukkonen , Keith , etc (Guys that weren't that good --- Although Barinka has been good in Europe)

So if there is a young player he doesn't like he wont hesitate to move them in a package for someone else

Sometimes it works (Ladd , Sharp and Versteeg deals) ,,,,,, Sometimes it looks foolish later on (Babchuk and Anderson trades)
He brought Chicago the Cup, would certainly be welcome here.

__________________
So you're saying there's a chance!
Laus723 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2010, 08:06 AM
  #56
pb1300
BLEED RED
 
pb1300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Aiyio, Greece
Country: Greece
Posts: 10,679
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to pb1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Tallon will not be able to hand out stupid contracts ; because we simply cannot A) afford such cotnracts B) Attract the big players that command thesse inflated contracts.

As for his drafting record ; you're underplaying the role of the scouts. Sure Tallon has a pretty large influence in the very early picks, but the quality of our scouting will still determine how well this rebuild goes to a large extent.

Assuming this rebuild goes to plan, it is probably a two year plan. The assumption is within that time frame Kulikov, Gudbranson and Markstrom will all in the NHL and producing to an acceptable level or better. You then assume that Florida is likely picking in the top Five both in 2011 and 2012 (which i think is a correct assumption, definitely this year) then you're looking likely at two prospects who are better than Gudbranson IMO. Acquiring a couple of high end Forward prospects in either of those years (Say, Nugent-Hopkins this, Yakupov next) you now have top end talent at all positions, and talents that are able to play at the NHL at a young age. Add those two high end picks + some of the young guys we have now + Booth/Weiss/Frolik and you have a core which follows the pattern of Chicago/LA etc.

The question is, can we utilize the high end picks we are going to have in the next two years better than we did in the early 2000's. Do we get another group like Weiss, Horton, Frolik, Olesz, Bouwmeester or do we end up with a Toews, Kane type core.

We just have to hope Kulikov, Gudbranson, Markstrom, Bjugstad + 2011 and 2012 1st round picks are >>>> the early 2000's. Do we become Chicago, Washington, Pittsburgh, LA or do we become Florida 2.0 or Columbus? Alot seems to rest upon player development and luck (i.e the particular draft).
That is exactly what I try to get at, a two year plan. After this year, and next year, hopefully we are in a position to add a top tier prospect to what we already have, which will speed up the process of getting to the playoffs. I think next season will be difficult, knowing that we will have a starting rookie goaltender, and probably more youth in the lineup, but with the talent inserted next year, with a Hopkins/Couturier/Larsson, we could really see Tallon's plan starting to take shape.

pb1300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2010, 11:02 AM
  #57
J17 Vs Proclamation
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Reading.
Country: South Korea
Posts: 7,862
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to J17 Vs Proclamation
I agree PB, this rebuild to me basically comes down to how successful the players are with whom we select from the next two entry drafts. We're finishing Bottom 5. Im actually leaning towards Nugent-Hopkins at the moment. 2012 has some very high end talent. Two star players from those two picks and we're in good shape.

While Toews is incredibly overrated, him and Kane are the backbone of the Chicago resurgence. Yes they have some other tremendous pieces, but those two are the main pieces IMO. What Chicago has done to seperate themselves however and allow them to compete for the Cup so soon is acquiring an outstanding amount of depth either through later picks/trade/free agency. Even now, their prospect system is awesome. It's probably close to ours.

But first thing is first ; choose the right players at the top this time.

J17 Vs Proclamation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2010, 02:50 PM
  #58
pb1300
BLEED RED
 
pb1300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Aiyio, Greece
Country: Greece
Posts: 10,679
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to pb1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
I agree PB, this rebuild to me basically comes down to how successful the players are with whom we select from the next two entry drafts. We're finishing Bottom 5. Im actually leaning towards Nugent-Hopkins at the moment. 2012 has some very high end talent. Two star players from those two picks and we're in good shape.

While Toews is incredibly overrated, him and Kane are the backbone of the Chicago resurgence. Yes they have some other tremendous pieces, but those two are the main pieces IMO. What Chicago has done to seperate themselves however and allow them to compete for the Cup so soon is acquiring an outstanding amount of depth either through later picks/trade/free agency. Even now, their prospect system is awesome. It's probably close to ours.

But first thing is first ; choose the right players at the top this time.
Not only do we need to choose the right players, we need to have the right players available. While there was talented players available when we drafted high, none of the drafts had that Crosby, Ovie, etc. type of player. We were never lucky enough to have that type of talent available, aside from us trading our #1 pick, which turned into Lecavalier. While the next couple of drafts might not have those generational talents, being able to draft a Couturier/Larsson/Hopkins this year, and a Frk/Yakupov/Grigorenko the year after would really be a major shot in the arm for this franchise. A core of Marky, Guds, Kuli, Weiss, Frolik, Booth, Robak, Bjugstad, McFarland, Howden, Matthias, and with the additions of two of those six prospects listed, would certainly make us a powerhouse for years to come, as long as they dont develop the way Weiss/Horton/Bouwmeester did during their first few seasons in the league. I think Tallon alone will be the difference in the development of our youth from years past.

pb1300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2010, 02:53 PM
  #59
ShootIt
Registered User
 
ShootIt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: 561
Country: United States
Posts: 6,503
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
Not only do we need to choose the right players, we need to have the right players available. While there was talented players available when we drafted high, none of the drafts had that Crosby, Ovie, etc. type of player. We were never lucky enough to have that type of talent available, aside from us trading our #1 pick, which turned into Lecavalier.
We had chances of drafting Staal, and we went with Horton.
Drafted Bouwmeester instead of Nash. Granted they are not elite players but they are very good players.

ShootIt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2010, 03:05 PM
  #60
panthersfan751
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 1,659
vCash: 500
I don't think we will finish bottom 5 again in 2011-12. For that year, I'd expect a year similar to the 07-08 Hawks where they were between a lottery and playoff team and were on the way up as an organization.

For this current season, I can definitely see a lottery finish, but after this year, we're going to add Couturier/RNH, Gudbranson, and Markstrom to next year's team, while shedding a lot of older players and their salaries, which has to make a big improvement.

panthersfan751 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2010, 03:20 PM
  #61
pb1300
BLEED RED
 
pb1300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Aiyio, Greece
Country: Greece
Posts: 10,679
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to pb1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootIt View Post
We had chances of drafting Staal, and we went with Horton.
Drafted Bouwmeester instead of Nash. Granted they are not elite players but they are very good players.
Bouwmeester was drafted based on need. He was touted as an exceptional Dman prospect, something we never had in our prospect pool. He was also the wise choice because of the disparity between our offensive and defensive prospects.

Horton was also highly touted as well, and with having Weiss in our system, the best bet would be to add that power forward that Horton was projected to be.

You cant blame either pick to be honest. The only thing you have to question is the way they were developed. Wouldnt it be great to be able to look into the future and see how each player would end up being, but it doesnt work that way, so when you have picks in a draft where there isnt a clear cut #1, you draft based on needs.

pb1300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2010, 03:24 PM
  #62
pb1300
BLEED RED
 
pb1300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Aiyio, Greece
Country: Greece
Posts: 10,679
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to pb1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by panthersfan751 View Post
I don't think we will finish bottom 5 again in 2011-12. For that year, I'd expect a year similar to the 07-08 Hawks where they were between a lottery and playoff team and were on the way up as an organization.

For this current season, I can definitely see a lottery finish, but after this year, we're going to add Couturier/RNH, Gudbranson, and Markstrom to next year's team, while shedding a lot of older players and their salaries, which has to make a big improvement.
I agree. Aside from Couturier/Hopkins, Marky, and Guds next year, we will also probably see guys like Robak and Ellerby, and maybe guys like Repik and McArdle as well. The season could go either way. It will be a learning experience for sure, and they could either crash or burn. With the 2012 draft having some good talent, I think a 5-10 pick could be helpful.

pb1300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2010, 05:00 PM
  #63
J17 Vs Proclamation
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Reading.
Country: South Korea
Posts: 7,862
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to J17 Vs Proclamation
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
I agree. Aside from Couturier/Hopkins, Marky, and Guds next year, we will also probably see guys like Robak and Ellerby, and maybe guys like Repik and McArdle as well. The season could go either way. It will be a learning experience for sure, and they could either crash or burn. With the 2012 draft having some good talent, I think a 5-10 pick could be helpful.
In 2011-12, Ellerby and Robak will not be impact players at the NHL level. Nor will Repik or LolArdle. Gudbranson will be 20 and the transition for a Defensive Defenseman to the NHL is tough. Markstrom in 2011-2012 won't be an elite NHL goaltender.

The young guys we have now, will not be elite in the 2011-2012 season. If we finished well in 2011-2012, it will not be because of the players mentioned. It will be because Booth, Frolik, Weiss, veterans etc who would presumably still here.

People need to stop exaggerating the immediate impact of prospects.

The 2011 and 2012 drafts do look strong at the top end. But it may change. 2001 - Weiss was thought to be exceptional ; has not quite progressed that way. 2002 - Had 4 elite studs at the time, 8 years later ; they are all very good NHL players, but Pitkanen, Lehtonen, Bouwmeester and Nash are in my mind, not truely elite. 2003 - for all its amazing depth, the players picked in the top 5 - Staal, Fleury, Horton, Zherdev, Michalek have all been a little disappointing. 2004 outside the big two was always considered a little weak.

Point being, a draft that looks hot today may well not be hot ten years on. Who knows if this is the right time frame too suck.

J17 Vs Proclamation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2010, 08:24 PM
  #64
Markstrom Rules
Sup
 
Markstrom Rules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Country: United States
Posts: 16,178
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
3 Players drafted by Tallon were on Hawks team that won the Stanley Cup last year

His drafting record is not as good as everyone assumes

Drafting = average
Trades = That is Tallon's specialty
Free agency = Tallon sucks with contracts ,,, Overpays and gives to much to players who come up with organization (Bolland contract good example along with Barker)

Another thing you will see is that Tallon will trade young players from previous regime (Any of your prospect from previous GM could go away)

In Chicago he traded Many Mike Smith draft picks or in case of almost every Russian purged them from organization

Traded Ruutu for Ladd
Traded Wisniewski for Pahlsson
Traded Leighton and Anderson
Traded Babchuk for an AHL caliber dman
Traded guys like Barinka , Kukkonen , Keith , etc (Guys that weren't that good --- Although Barinka has been good in Europe)

So if there is a young player he doesn't like he wont hesitate to move them in a package for someone else

Sometimes it works (Ladd , Sharp and Versteeg deals) ,,,,,, Sometimes it looks foolish later on (Babchuk and Anderson trades)
It takes most draft picks 3-4 years to even make it to the NHL, you can't judge Tallon's draft history with the Hawks yet. In about 3 years you will have a clearer picture. He was also assistant GM for some of the picks that were on the Cup winning team and was involved in the decision making to draft them.

Markstrom Rules is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2010, 09:33 PM
  #65
PanthersHockey1
Bond.
 
PanthersHockey1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: UF & Boca Raton
Country: United States
Posts: 5,574
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Tallon will not be able to hand out stupid contracts ; because we simply cannot A) afford such cotnracts B) Attract the big players that command thesse inflated contracts.

As for his drafting record ; you're underplaying the role of the scouts. Sure Tallon has a pretty large influence in the very early picks, but the quality of our scouting will still determine how well this rebuild goes to a large extent.

Assuming this rebuild goes to plan, it is probably a two year plan. The assumption is within that time frame Kulikov, Gudbranson and Markstrom will all in the NHL and producing to an acceptable level or better. You then assume that Florida is likely picking in the top Five both in 2011 and 2012 (which i think is a correct assumption, definitely this year) then you're looking likely at two prospects who are better than Gudbranson IMO. Acquiring a couple of high end Forward prospects in either of those years (Say, Nugent-Hopkins this, Yakupov next) you now have top end talent at all positions, and talents that are able to play at the NHL at a young age. Add those two high end picks + some of the young guys we have now + Booth/Weiss/Frolik and you have a core which follows the pattern of Chicago/LA etc.

The question is, can we utilize the high end picks we are going to have in the next two years better than we did in the early 2000's. Do we get another group like Weiss, Horton, Frolik, Olesz, Bouwmeester or do we end up with a Toews, Kane type core.

We just have to hope Kulikov, Gudbranson, Markstrom, Bjugstad + 2011 and 2012 1st round picks are >>>> the early 2000's. Do we become Chicago, Washington, Pittsburgh, LA or do we become Florida 2.0 or Columbus? Alot seems to rest upon player development and luck (i.e the particular draft).
The question i have is if the so called existing core of booth, weiss, frolik, and kulikov are the center of the team are they simply a core of players to get us to the playoffs or win a stanley cup. Yes that group has talent but compared to a core of towes, kane, keith, hossa, and sharp seems so much more talented to me. What im saying is i want the panthers to be so good that the line of booth weiss and frolik is our third or fourth line in the future and not the 1st. It must be nice to have a core of players that found patrick sharp centering the third line. I hope that tallon is rebuilding a core of players to win the stanley cup not to make the playoffs

PanthersHockey1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2010, 10:30 PM
  #66
Markstrom Rules
Sup
 
Markstrom Rules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Country: United States
Posts: 16,178
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by panthersflames1 View Post
The question i have is if the so called existing core of booth, weiss, frolik, and kulikov are the center of the team are they simply a core of players to get us to the playoffs or win a stanley cup. Yes that group has talent but compared to a core of towes, kane, keith, hossa, and sharp seems so much more talented to me. What im saying is i want the panthers to be so good that the line of booth weiss and frolik is our third or fourth line in the future and not the 1st. It must be nice to have a core of players that found patrick sharp centering the third line. I hope that tallon is rebuilding a core of players to win the stanley cup not to make the playoffs
Ideally Weiss would be the 2nd line center on a team that featured Sean Couturier or Ryan Nugent-Hopkins. You hope that they would become better centers than Weiss, pick them and hope for the best. Booth is a good top 6 winger on any team. Frolik hasn't had a very good 2 games here, but he's young yet, we'll see. In any case, as has been said, he's at the least a 2nd liner. Kulikov is very young yet. Of course he's not as good as Keith or Seabrook. But he's so good for his age already, and IMO is already the Panthers' best d-man. I see him just getting better and better and better. You add in Gudbranson and Markstrom, plus some of the other of our top prospects, that could be a great core. Of course we'll have to wait and see....there are no guarantee buttons. Tallon is trying to build a Stanley Cup champ for sure. I know Panthers fans don't want to hear it, but it's going to take time, also. I'd bet Tallon was surprised that Chicago won it so quickly, he even said so. Even if we start making the playoffs consistently in short order, it's still going to be a building process towards the ultimate goal and it definitely takes time. As long as you see a young talented team that is heading in the right direction, I think that any fan would be happy with that though.

Markstrom Rules is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2010, 11:31 PM
  #67
pb1300
BLEED RED
 
pb1300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Aiyio, Greece
Country: Greece
Posts: 10,679
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to pb1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by panthersflames1 View Post
The question i have is if the so called existing core of booth, weiss, frolik, and kulikov are the center of the team are they simply a core of players to get us to the playoffs or win a stanley cup. Yes that group has talent but compared to a core of towes, kane, keith, hossa, and sharp seems so much more talented to me. What im saying is i want the panthers to be so good that the line of booth weiss and frolik is our third or fourth line in the future and not the 1st. It must be nice to have a core of players that found patrick sharp centering the third line. I hope that tallon is rebuilding a core of players to win the stanley cup not to make the playoffs
Its not really fair to compare the cores, because you have Hossa and Sharp in there, which were picked later on. Tallon started off with Kane and Toews, where as in Florida, he starts with Booth, Weiss, Frolik, and Kulikov, along with Markstrom, and a solid 1st round draft class. He has more to work with, even though there isnt that Kane or Toews here, and the process shouldnt take longer than a couple of years, as long as we get a little lucky, or opportune.

pb1300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2010, 11:04 AM
  #68
Pantherfan12
Registered User
 
Pantherfan12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sunrise,Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 1,781
vCash: 500
Do you guys really feel that any one of these players,Couturier/Larsson/Hopkins
(2011) and Frk/Yakupov/Grigorenko(2012) are going to be that good that they can change our offense that drastically??? Are they going to be the Ovy,Crosby type, or the Horton, Staal type?
Is it possible to build through both the draft and free agency? I hear a lot of people saying that only through the draft, will this team become a true contender for years to come but can't we have both? I mean we are unloading a lot of salary this coming off season, can't we pick up a good Free agent or two even if we finish in the bottom 1-5 this season? Plus, do you guys really think we'll be that bad this season? I mean I know we have nearly 0 scoring but they have played the hardest and most complete two games I've seen in a very long time, you don't think they could come together and pull into the playoffs?

Pantherfan12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2010, 12:58 PM
  #69
pb1300
BLEED RED
 
pb1300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Aiyio, Greece
Country: Greece
Posts: 10,679
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to pb1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantherfan12 View Post
Do you guys really feel that any one of these players,Couturier/Larsson/Hopkins
(2011) and Frk/Yakupov/Grigorenko(2012) are going to be that good that they can change our offense that drastically??? Are they going to be the Ovy,Crosby type, or the Horton, Staal type?
Is it possible to build through both the draft and free agency? I hear a lot of people saying that only through the draft, will this team become a true contender for years to come but can't we have both? I mean we are unloading a lot of salary this coming off season, can't we pick up a good Free agent or two even if we finish in the bottom 1-5 this season? Plus, do you guys really think we'll be that bad this season? I mean I know we have nearly 0 scoring but they have played the hardest and most complete two games I've seen in a very long time, you don't think they could come together and pull into the playoffs?
They are going to be better than the Horton draft, but not as good as the Crosby/Ovechkin drafts. Regardless, landing a combo of Larsson and Yakupov/Frk/Gregiorenko, or to be honest, any two of the six, we would be in very good shape IMO. You have to understand that not only would we be added these type of players down the road, but we also have guys that will come in and contribute as well down the road, like McFarland, Bjugstad, Howden, etc. This is a rebuild, but if we are lucky to get top 3 in the next two drafts, well that right there is our Kane and Toews, and then some.

pb1300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2010, 02:51 PM
  #70
panthersfan751
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 1,659
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
They are going to be better than the Horton draft, but not as good as the Crosby/Ovechkin drafts. Regardless, landing a combo of Larsson and Yakupov/Frk/Gregiorenko, or to be honest, any two of the six, we would be in very good shape IMO. You have to understand that not only would we be added these type of players down the road, but we also have guys that will come in and contribute as well down the road, like McFarland, Bjugstad, Howden, etc. This is a rebuild, but if we are lucky to get top 3 in the next two drafts, well that right there is our Kane and Toews, and then some.
I don't believe this organization can afford to be that bad for that long. If we're a lottery team this year and next, that will be 3 consecutive lottery finishes. SSE will be deep in the red and the BAC will be a ghost town. They are already giving 2 for 1 deals and other promotions to increase the number of STH's as it is because tickets have little value. They'd basically have to pay people to come watch this team because there will be almost no fans left after 2 more lottery finishes. Even diehard fans will probably have had enough.

I believe they have to seriously try for the playoffs in 2011-12. If we don't make the playoffs this year, I think the plan should be to draft Couturier/RNH, dump all the old veterans, and sign someone like Backes in FA to try and challenge for a playoff spot.

panthersfan751 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2010, 03:49 PM
  #71
pb1300
BLEED RED
 
pb1300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Aiyio, Greece
Country: Greece
Posts: 10,679
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to pb1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by panthersfan751 View Post
I don't believe this organization can afford to be that bad for that long. If we're a lottery team this year and next, that will be 3 consecutive lottery finishes. SSE will be deep in the red and the BAC will be a ghost town. They are already giving 2 for 1 deals and other promotions to increase the number of STH's as it is because tickets have little value. They'd basically have to pay people to come watch this team because there will be almost no fans left after 2 more lottery finishes. Even diehard fans will probably have had enough.

I believe they have to seriously try for the playoffs in 2011-12. If we don't make the playoffs this year, I think the plan should be to draft Couturier/RNH, dump all the old veterans, and sign someone like Backes in FA to try and challenge for a playoff spot.
Well, Tallon has a plan, so I dont think he would try a quick fix, not to say signing Backes is bad. There are some young vets available next summer, so we will see what he does then. I think it all depends on what happens this year, and where we end up drafting. If we are in the top three, it assures us one of Larsson/Couturier/Hopkins, which in turn might give Tallon different options in free agency. If we can get a guy like Hopkins, then sign maybe a Backes and/or Connolly, then all of a sudden, we have a sudden influx of offense. On the flip side, if we add a guy like Larsson, in a few years, we would have one of the top defenses in the league. It would be a good position for us to be in next summer, having the #1 pick, because you cant go wrong either way. But for now, we just need to enjoy the season, and see where we are at come the deadline. If we are out of it by then, we need to get rid of the vets, and make an all out run for the #1 pick.

pb1300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2010, 04:17 PM
  #72
Pantherfan12
Registered User
 
Pantherfan12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sunrise,Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 1,781
vCash: 500
and if the Panthers somehow manage to make the post season, this season.... then what?

Pantherfan12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2010, 04:26 PM
  #73
panthersfan751
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 1,659
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantherfan12 View Post
and if the Panthers somehow manage to make the post season, this season.... then what?
I hope we do make it. I'd rather that than get another lottery pick.

But from what I've seen, our top 6 looks to be holding us back because they can't score. Until our top line starts producing, I think we'll struggle to average 2 goals a game.

panthersfan751 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2010, 05:21 PM
  #74
Markstrom Rules
Sup
 
Markstrom Rules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Country: United States
Posts: 16,178
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantherfan12 View Post
and if the Panthers somehow manage to make the post season, this season.... then what?
Then you pinch yourself.

Markstrom Rules is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2010, 08:25 PM
  #75
Slick Cat
Registered User
 
Slick Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 874
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by panthersfan751 View Post
I absolutely agree, 3 years is not acceptable. I can see an argument for not being ready this year, but 3 years is just too long to wait for a market that's already waited for 10 years.

And for everyone who's comparing us to Chicago, they only needed 2 lottery picks to turn the organization around. We just got one and might get another this year. Plus Tallon already has Markstrom and Kulikov.

We need to try for the playoffs. Fans have heard enough talk from management over the years, and they will not return to the BAC in large numbers unless there's playoff hockey.
You can't compare us to chicago. Tallon did there what he will never be allowed to do here, sign major free agents for big bucks. They won the cup thanks to some of these high priced guys. He has no budget here, evidenced by the fact that we did not pick up any of the players that our own division foes in atlanta and tampa did.

Slick Cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:56 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.