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Cam Fowler Discussion: (What's Best? Rookie Wall? Now What?)

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Old
12-02-2010, 12:06 PM
  #226
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Originally Posted by jrgom81 View Post
what do you guys think will happen with the wjc coming up, keep Cam with Anaheim or will BM let him play for team usa? (i know seguin is going for canada, is cam still eligible?)
No way BM lets him leave.

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12-02-2010, 12:16 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by jrgom81 View Post
what do you guys think will happen with the wjc coming up, keep Cam with Anaheim or will BM let him play for team usa? (i know seguin is going for canada, is cam still eligible?)
Seguin is going because he is only playing a 4th line role, and the Bruins could use the cap relief they get by sending him. Cam is the ducks #3 Dman and they don't have any cap issues so no chance at all he is release for them.

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12-02-2010, 12:34 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by jrgom81 View Post
what do you guys think will happen with the wjc coming up, keep Cam with Anaheim or will BM let him play for team usa? (i know seguin is going for canada, is cam still eligible?)
No chance, #3 defender and no way can we afford to lose him.

As someone mentioned earlier, Seguin is only going as he's on the 4th line I believe

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12-02-2010, 12:46 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by mightyquack View Post
No chance, #3 defender and no way can we afford to lose him.

As someone mentioned earlier, Seguin is only going as he's on the 4th line I believe
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Originally Posted by Force951 View Post
Seguin is going because he is only playing a 4th line role, and the Bruins could use the cap relief they get by sending him. Cam is the ducks #3 Dman and they don't have any cap issues so no chance at all he is release for them.
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No way BM lets him leave.
That was my thoughts as well, i didnt think they would send him, i just wanted to hear what other people thought about it

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12-10-2010, 12:23 PM
  #230
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12-10-2010, 01:06 PM
  #231
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If Fowler plays the way he's been playing for the whole season, I think he will easily be a finalist but right now the edge has to go to Phillys rookie goalie. I don't think low publicity will hurt Fowler this year because even networks like TSN and NHL network have been tracking him exclusively this year. My guess is because he randomly fell so far in the draft.

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12-10-2010, 04:17 PM
  #232
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I really think standings will have a huge effect on the Calder race.

Bobrovsky has been very good and if the Flyers get in the playoffs from the 5 seed or up (as in having a secure spot and not squeaking in) he will probably win. I know Skinner has been playing well too. Hall is really starting to adjust and will likely be a finalist. Fowler continuing to play well and the Ducks making the playoffs will both need to happen I think for him to win.

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12-11-2010, 06:53 PM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidy2d View Post
I really think standings will have a huge effect on the Calder race.

Bobrovsky has been very good and if the Flyers get in the playoffs from the 5 seed or up (as in having a secure spot and not squeaking in) he will probably win. I know Skinner has been playing well too. Hall is really starting to adjust and will likely be a finalist. Fowler continuing to play well and the Ducks making the playoffs will both need to happen I think for him to win.
i don't get how people who cover hockey for a living can be so stupid (and most sports journalists in general.

"hey. i really love this kid. I think he's probably the best rookie in the NHL, he looks like a number one defenseman and he's only 19. He produced offensively almost as well as top rookie forwards as well-- but what's this!? The team he plays on just finished 9th and is going to miss the playoffs. I can no longer believe that he is the most valuable rookie in the NHL, it would be a logical fallacy!"

How are people even close to this dumb? And maybe Bobrovsky will deserve it, but I kind of hate the idea of giving it to like a non-hyped goalie who comes out of nowhere. Remember Steve Mason? It's much harder to judge goalies. Usually the apparent skill differential between goalies is being slightly smarter reading angles, they're just so valuable because they're on the ice 2-4 times longer than a skater would be. The problem is that small gap get's closed too much with random rookies and random goalies playing well. Remember Antti Niemi? This thing happens all the time. People get way too up on goalies when they're doing well and way too down on them when they're doing bad. It's ridiculous.

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12-11-2010, 07:15 PM
  #234
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I agree journalists put too much stock into standings, or even an Eastern bias but hype or position shouldn't really matter.

If Bobrovsky plays well and stabilizes a shaky situation on a cup contender he is probably worthy, regardless of hype. No sleight against Fowler, but if Ryan couldn't win it over Mason, I don't think Cam has a legitimate shot to "win" whether he deserves it or not. Too much competition, especially with #1 overall Hall for a defensemen from California to win ROTY.

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12-12-2010, 12:26 AM
  #235
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is "stabilizing a key position on a cup contending team" some sort of skill? nobody should put stock in that. if he was drafted by the islander i don't see why he should be any more or less deserving, they should view the player in a vacuum as much as possible. if it's still possible to tell if some kind of "out of nowhere goalie" is better than what looks like a future super star defensemen because he had a good year then maybe he deserves it more. i honestly think it's really hard to tell how much of good goal tending is luck or skill. people thought giguere was terrible for years, it happens all the time, good goalies look bad and bad goalies look good and it doesn't take that much lucky to have one good year, let alone a few months. i just kind of hate the idea of people being all confident singing bobrovksi's praises or making claims he's better than cam fowler who is so much more impressive in a clearly visible and measurable way.


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12-12-2010, 01:34 AM
  #236
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Fowler has been impressive but I think his plus/minus will keep him from getting much recognition. Competition this year for ROY is tough and I don't think Fowler makes it.

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12-12-2010, 07:18 AM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Cone View Post
How are people even close to this dumb? And maybe Bobrovsky will deserve it, but I kind of hate the idea of giving it to like a non-hyped goalie who comes out of nowhere. Remember Steve Mason? It's much harder to judge goalies. Usually the apparent skill differential between goalies is being slightly smarter reading angles, they're just so valuable because they're on the ice 2-4 times longer than a skater would be. The problem is that small gap get's closed too much with random rookies and random goalies playing well. Remember Antti Niemi? This thing happens all the time. People get way too up on goalies when they're doing well and way too down on them when they're doing bad. It's ridiculous.
Pfffffff. Dude. The Calder is given to a player for a single year of play. Not a couple seasons worth. So yes, Mason can be awesome for one year and then suck the next year and still be deserving of the award.

When's the last time Temmu scored 76 goals? Wanna call his Calder into question too?

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12-12-2010, 10:29 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by POUM View Post
Pfffffff. Dude. The Calder is given to a player for a single year of play. Not a couple seasons worth. So yes, Mason can be awesome for one year and then suck the next year and still be deserving of the award.

When's the last time Temmu scored 76 goals? Wanna call his Calder into question too?
What a terrible comparison. Teemu Selanne was still a top forward in the NHL, while Mason has dropped down to the lower echelon of starting goaltenders.

While it's not fair to to deny goalies consideration from the ROY based on the high occurrence of 1 season wonders at the position, I do understand where he's coming from. Not to mention the Flyers are the same team that made Michael Leighton look like a legitimate starter, so it's yet to be seen how he'd perform on a team like Edmonton, Carolina or Anaheim.

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12-12-2010, 11:07 PM
  #239
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what people don't grasp is fluctuation. there's really a good chance mason was never that good. goalies tend to ride waves like because of the nature of the position. it happens all the time and you can't really pinpoint how good a goalie is with much accuracy based on one year alone. mason could have very well had numbers that indicated he deserved it, but still not have really deserved it. i was saying that entire year that pekka rinne was a much better goal tender. but all people saw were mason's fancy shutouts and how young he was. even has his numbers started dropping off eventually, the huge majority of people on here thought mason was a better goalie. i kind of doubt that many people would take that stance anymore though.

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12-13-2010, 10:51 PM
  #240
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The more I hear about Fowler with the Niedermayer family, the more I think we are so lucky he has such a great mentor.

I mean, come on, what is he doing for the kid?

1) Considering how down to Earth Scotty was, you have to imagine he's helping Fowler in that area, and Fowler is already a very mature player.

2) Fowler has already said he talks to Niedermayer when his confidence is a little low, and Scotty helps him through that.

3) It must be great to get the downtime he needs. He has fun with the kids, he has a family to talk to when he wants it, and privacy when he needs it. How important must that be to help him feel welcome here, when his own family is so far away?

4) Improving his diet. I'd love to know if Niedermayer has thrown out ideas for working out and improving his conditioning too.

Fowler can pick his brain. He's living with a great family, and that has to be so helpful as a young kid in the NHL. They are clearly making him feel welcome there. More than that, how much must Fowler love being with Anaheim right now, even through the struggles? Even when he moves out, he's probably going to remain an honorary family member there. The only thing that would make things even better(for the Ducks too) is if Niedermayer was on the ice to help mentor him in that aspect too. Still, this must be so great for him, and not just because he's living with an idol of his.

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12-14-2010, 12:06 AM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
The more I hear about Fowler with the Niedermayer family, the more I think we are so lucky he has such a great mentor.

I mean, come on, what is he doing for the kid?

1) Considering how down to Earth Scotty was, you have to imagine he's helping Fowler in that area, and Fowler is already a very mature player.

2) Fowler has already said he talks to Niedermayer when his confidence is a little low, and Scotty helps him through that.

3) It must be great to get the downtime he needs. He has fun with the kids, he has a family to talk to when he wants it, and privacy when he needs it. How important must that be to help him feel welcome here, when his own family is so far away?

4) Improving his diet. I'd love to know if Niedermayer has thrown out ideas for working out and improving his conditioning too.

Fowler can pick his brain. He's living with a great family, and that has to be so helpful as a young kid in the NHL. They are clearly making him feel welcome there. More than that, how much must Fowler love being with Anaheim right now, even through the struggles? Even when he moves out, he's probably going to remain an honorary family member there. The only thing that would make things even better(for the Ducks too) is if Niedermayer was on the ice to help mentor him in that aspect too. Still, this must be so great for him, and not just because he's living with an idol of his.
that'd be awesome.. niedermeyers conditioning was amazing.. coudl stay out on the ice all day and never get tired..

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12-14-2010, 12:21 AM
  #242
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Yeah it's great to see Fowler at Anaheim, it was the perfect fit for him. The guy that talked to Fowler on draft day when he hadn't been drafted, told him to be patient and wait for the team that has the right needs to draft him.

And it sure was a good fit.

It's great he's with the Niedermayer's, does Nieds go on the ice at all during practice to help out with the D or anything?

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12-14-2010, 12:31 AM
  #243
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that'd be awesome.. niedermeyers conditioning was amazing.. coudl stay out on the ice all day and never get tired..
Crossing my fingers there. I've always believed to be an elite player in the NHL these days, you can't just have great talent. You need to have the conditioning to go with it. This is especially true for the older players, and wouldn't we all love for Fowler to have great longevity?

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12-14-2010, 12:35 AM
  #244
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Yeah it's great to see Fowler at Anaheim, it was the perfect fit for him. The guy that talked to Fowler on draft day when he hadn't been drafted, told him to be patient and wait for the team that has the right needs to draft him.

And it sure was a good fit.

It's great he's with the Niedermayer's, does Nieds go on the ice at all during practice to help out with the D or anything?
I heard something about him working with the AHL defensemen, and logic suggested that may have included on-ice help. But for the Ducks? I haven't heard anything about that. Which doesn't mean it may not happen, or that Niedermayer may not do some private training with Fowler when they have spare time. I just can't answer that, because I don't know.

I'd sure love for that to be the case. He was well known for his conditioning, and that is absolutely the kind of thing we'd love him to pass on to a player like Fowler, at the very least.

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12-14-2010, 04:10 PM
  #245
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FYI

Fowler has more points than Kovalchuk

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12-14-2010, 04:30 PM
  #246
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FYI

Fowler has more points than Kovalchuk
Corey Perry and Bobby Ryan have more goals than Ovechkin.

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12-14-2010, 04:35 PM
  #247
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FYI

Fowler has more points than Kovalchuk
Which is why I just traded Kovalchuk for Mikko Koivu in one of my leagues. Worst first round pick ever . Would have never thought Fowler would be putting up this many points in his first season, especially with limited PP time earlier on.

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03-09-2011, 12:36 PM
  #248
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Best way to handle Fowler?

Normally I'd start a thread. But it seems like merging is the new rage around here.

So a number of people have commented that Fowler hasn't been playing as well recently. I personally think it's been over 2 months now, but among the board the comments have started about 2 weeks ago. It may well be the famous rookie wall.

Yet despite the drop in play, Fowler has continued to log huge minutes. Rounded TOI of past few games: 22, 26, 23, 25, 27, 23, 24 minutes. The general theory is that playing him large minutes while he's not performing well can be detrimental for his development.

I can see 3 general plans of action regarding Fowler. 1) Keep playing him a lot and give him a chance to work his way out of it. 2) Lower his playing time and hope extra practice will bring him out of it. 3) Send him down a level to refocus and refresh. In this case it would be to Windsor, and he would not be able to come back to the team (unlike if he could go to the AHL).

There are pros and cons of each. 3 worked well for Sbisa, Getzlaf, and Perry. 1 is typically what you do to an important contributor, especially in a playoff drive. 2 I would say is the the typical treatment of rookies, and rookies typically improve just fine.


So my questions are what's best for a) Fowler long term b) Fowler short term c) the team this season and d) the team long term?

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03-09-2011, 12:39 PM
  #249
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Normally I'd start a thread. But it seems like merging is the new rage around here.

So a number of people have commented that Fowler hasn't been playing as well recently. I personally think it's been over 2 months now, but among the board the comments have started about 2 weeks ago. It may well be the famous rookie wall.

Yet despite the drop in play, Fowler has continued to log huge minutes. Rounded TOI of past few games: 22, 26, 23, 25, 27, 23, 24 minutes. The general theory is that playing him large minutes while he's not performing well can be detrimental for his development.

I can see 3 general plans of action regarding Fowler. 1) Keep playing him a lot and give him a chance to work his way out of it. 2) Lower his playing time and hope extra practice will bring him out of it. 3) Send him down a level to refocus and refresh. In this case it would be to Windsor, and he would not be able to come back to the team (unlike if he could go to the AHL).

There are pros and cons of each. 3 worked well for Sbisa, Getzlaf, and Perry. 1 is typically what you do to an important contributor, especially in a playoff drive. 2 I would say is the the typical treatment of rookies, and rookies typically improve just fine.


So my questions are what's best for a) Fowler long term b) Fowler short term c) the team this season and d) the team long term?
Play Beauch-Sbisa as the 2nd pairing instead of Fowler-Lilja is what I hope Carlyle starts doing. Lilja is a big part of our PK and Fowler is a big part of our PP so they still will see plenty of ice time, but Beauch-Sbisa has been our best pairing for the past handful of games IMO. Fowler has nothing left to prove in juniors and since AHL is not an option the only logical option I see is to decrease his minutes.

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03-09-2011, 01:05 PM
  #250
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So my questions are what's best for a) Fowler long term b) Fowler short term c) the team this season and d) the team long term?
I think all those questions share one answe, and that is what just karacter said.

Really. Fowler has showedthat he stopped his progress this season, playing those huge minutes, while Sbisa has showed that he have progressed well with growing minutes.
Also, Beuchamin is a waste of solid Dmen on the 3d line,so i really see no other logical answer than swap pairings.
That could maybe improve special teams to, if our Fowlja - Liljer pairing get less ES ice time.

I hope Teemu adresses this to to Randy, when he`ll do that with Getz situation.

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