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Cam Fowler Discussion: (What's Best? Rookie Wall? Now What?)

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Old
10-18-2010, 10:29 PM
  #76
KelVarnsen
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Why is everyone saying his fitness level is not where it should be? He is playing 22 mins a night in the NHL and not looking at all tired or winded at the end of games. I would say his fitness is fine.

Some would opine he might lack "strength" and that may be a valid point but it does not seem to have hurt him so far.

The last thing I would want is for him to pull a Sbisa and gain 15 pounds of muscle and lose a step.

His fitness is fine IMO and he could probably get stronger but I dont think he needs to put on any weight.

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10-18-2010, 10:30 PM
  #77
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When was the last time this organization drafted a defenseman that has been this good? Ruslan Salei? I think he's even better than Oleg Tverdovsky. Those 2 guys aren't even in the same league as Fowler. This kid needs to stay up here because playing along side Mara will help him in the long run instead of playing in Windsor.

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10-18-2010, 10:46 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by KelVarnsen View Post
Why is everyone saying his fitness level is not where it should be? He is playing 22 mins a night in the NHL and not looking at all tired or winded at the end of games. I would say his fitness is fine.

Some would opine he might lack "strength" and that may be a valid point but it does not seem to have hurt him so far.

The last thing I would want is for him to pull a Sbisa and gain 15 pounds of muscle and lose a step.

His fitness is fine IMO and he could probably get stronger but I dont think he needs to put on any weight.
Because he's an 18-year old coming into the NHL. How many of them enter the NHL with true NHL-conditioning? Just because it's not holding him back does not mean he couldn't improve it.

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10-18-2010, 10:54 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by jiggsawpuzzle35 View Post
When was the last time this organization drafted a defenseman that has been this good? Ruslan Salei? I think he's even better than Oleg Tverdovsky. Those 2 guys aren't even in the same league as Fowler. This kid needs to stay up here because playing along side Mara will help him in the long run instead of playing in Windsor.
Never. This organization has never drafted a defenseman with this much upside. Not that I recall, at any rate.

I'm still very curious to see how Gardiner turns out. We grabbed him as a project player, and all he did was go to Wisconsin and become whatever the coach needed him to be on the blue line. That piques my interest, because that suggests a versatility to his game that could be very nice to have. He may end up being one of the better defensemen we drafted(and I emphasize maybe), but he still won't be Fowler.

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10-18-2010, 11:02 PM
  #80
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If Gardiner can develop well offensively and be a shut down dman he very well may be better than Fowler.

This is a good "problem" to have.

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10-18-2010, 11:06 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Because he's an 18-year old coming into the NHL. How many of them enter the NHL with true NHL-conditioning? Just because it's not holding him back does not mean he couldn't improve it.
He is handling the minutes fine. His conditioning level of course could improve. Everyone's can. I think it is being made a larger deal on these boards than it probably is.

More strength will come in time as he grows into his body. But again, it does not seem to be hurting him now. I have not seen anyone manhandle him this season.

I differentuate between fitness and strength. His fitness is fine and he could probably stand to get stronger but he is holding his own right now.

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10-18-2010, 11:20 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by KelVarnsen View Post
He is handling the minutes fine. His conditioning level of course could improve. Everyone's can. I think it is being made a larger deal on these boards than it probably is.

More strength will come in time as he grows into his body. But again, it does not seem to be hurting him now. I have not seen anyone manhandle him this season.

I differentuate between fitness and strength. His fitness is fine and he could probably stand to get stronger but he is holding his own right now.
I don't consider it a big deal, but I do think it's important for him to try to reach that peak level. Consider a player like Niedermayer, who Fowler says he emulates. How often did we actually see Scotty get muscled off a puck? How important was it that he could play 27 minutes a game, and look just as fresh that last minute as he did the first?

We all want Fowler to be a franchise defenseman, right? In my opinion, if he's going to reach that level, and be that player for us, he needs to reach a higher level of conditioning. Just look at the difference in Doughty. During his rookie season he was overweight. Was he still in shape? Absolutely. That didn't stop him from working really hard in the off-season to increase his conditioning, and look at the difference? Part of that was obviously a result of the experience and further development, but I don't think it's any coincidence he put in the effort to get into better shape and it showed on the ice.

It's not holding him back this season. I agree with you on that. I'm not trying to say he should be sent down or something because he can't hack it. I just think that, if he's going to really hit his true potential, the conditioning is going to be a part of that. Whatever happens this season, I'd love to see him come into next year's training camp in even better condition. Faster, stronger, and just better prepared. Combine that with the experience he'll have gained, and he's going to shock the NHL. He's not going to be our Doughty. He's going to be our Fowler.

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10-18-2010, 11:25 PM
  #83
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If I remember correctly Cam Fowler was the most conditioned prospect at the combine this year. Wasn't he? Or at least one of the best. Even though Fowler isn't NHL sized.. he still doesn't look out of place much at all... Simple as that.


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10-18-2010, 11:39 PM
  #84
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If I remember correctly Cam Fowler was the most conditioned prospect at the combine this year. Wasn't he? Or at least one of the best. Even though Fowler isn't NHL sized.. he still doesn't look out of place much at all... Simple as that.
I don't believe he did particularly well at the Combine.

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10-18-2010, 11:54 PM
  #85
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Ill agree with you that he can improve. Like i said everyone can always improve that aspect. I just feel that it is being made into a bigger deal than it probably is.

Its crazy to me that people say he should be sent down so he can improve his fitness and strength.

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10-19-2010, 12:09 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by KelVarnsen View Post
Ill agree with you that he can improve. Like i said everyone can always improve that aspect. I just feel that it is being made into a bigger deal than it probably is.

Its crazy to me that people say he should be sent down so he can improve his fitness and strength.
I don't think that at all, personally. It's possible he hits a wall at some point, and starts showing signs of fatigue, but so far he's handled the minutes very well. If he was a prospect who looked like he was right on the line between being an NHL-ready player and someone who could use another year of development, I think the fitness argument might hold more water. That just hasn't been the case.

I'm not seeing shifts where it looks like he's chugging along. I'm not seeing shifts where it looks like he is being manhandled. The kid is holding his own out there physically, and his talent level is enabling him to go the rest of the way, and beyond. I don't see any reason to send him down right now. Right now the NHL seems like a better teacher for Cam than the OHL would be. That's not always the case, in my opinion, but what is he going to learn in Windsor that he won't learn in the NHL? And what else might he learn in the NHL that he wouldn't learn in Windsor. These are his AP classes.

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10-19-2010, 01:02 AM
  #87
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Never. This organization has never drafted a defenseman with this much upside. Not that I recall, at any rate.

I'm still very curious to see how Gardiner turns out. We grabbed him as a project player, and all he did was go to Wisconsin and become whatever the coach needed him to be on the blue line. That piques my interest, because that suggests a versatility to his game that could be very nice to have. He may end up being one of the better defensemen we drafted(and I emphasize maybe), but he still won't be Fowler.
I always said that I thought gardiner was going to be the best of our 3 prospects. BUT at that time I thought Fowler was going to pan out as more of a #2 or 3 with PPQB capabilities.

I thought Gardiner would be the best because he has shown he can play a major offensive game and a major defensive game depending on what is needed. He is more of that prototypical paul martin 2-way defenders that anchor a defense.

I thought of sbisa as the more "sure-thing" to be a #2

Now I am seeing Fowler as a more complete player with CRAZY upside. But I reserve my prediction that Gardiner will be the best

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10-19-2010, 01:18 AM
  #88
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And what will he learn in the CHL. He's learning new things and gets better every night. That end to end rush was a play that few nhl defensemen can pull off. Even fewer will get the shot off.
Bet you he learned that he's not going to go into the boards on a rush like that without protecting himself better.

But what a sick rush, I love this kid.

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10-19-2010, 01:22 AM
  #89
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Taylor Hall has 1 assists in 4 games despite getting a healthy 15mins per game, speculation is that Oilers might send him back to OHL for a year.

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10-19-2010, 01:24 AM
  #90
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Him owning the hell out of the OHL won't help him anymore. He's proven he can handle NHL minutes and being out there against top opponents. When he hasn't used his skating ability he was somewhat physical and wasn't thrown off the puck as much as most thought. He's here to stay.

Not to mention how horrible our defense was without him.

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10-19-2010, 01:42 AM
  #91
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Taylor Hall has 1 assists in 4 games despite getting a healthy 15mins per game, speculation is that Oilers might send him back to OHL for a year.
Questionable pick ....







.... BWAHAHAHAHAAA

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10-19-2010, 02:54 AM
  #92
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correct me if im wrong but wasnt it oiler fans that gave us **** about the ryan pick??

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10-19-2010, 04:49 AM
  #93
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Fowler hasn't historically played this many games in a season and at this high of a level. 14 + 47 games in USNTP (I believe this was before they played in the USHL) and 55 games in the OHL. That's where we might wonder about his fitness. He might hit the rookie wall that most prospects do.

But other than that, he has fared well in the NHL. Hasn't really been out-muscled too much. Has plenty of rookie mistakes that I don't think people mention enough, but that's fine. Is probably also, through combination of him being good and because our defense is so bad, our best puckmoving Dman.

Unless he shows fatigue in the next few games, they'll probably keep him up. Which might be fine. It'll be hard to tell until it's too late. Guys like Sbisa looked great in his first 9 games too. Schenn looked great in his first year, playing 21:32 only to seemingly stall for a year.

So keeping him up could probably go either way. I think it's more likely to help him to stay up, but there's still a much larger chance than is being acknowledged around here that he doesn't become the next Drew Doughty. It is common for offensive defensemen to look great their first years and then not take the next step (or even step back). Like Bieksa or Niskanen.

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10-19-2010, 09:45 AM
  #94
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Unless my math is incorrect he played 81 games last season.

55 regular season OHL
19 playoffs
7 WJC

You may be right and he hits a wall. It just seems to me too many of us are making a larger deal over his fitness than needs to be.

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10-19-2010, 04:37 PM
  #95
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Little offtopic, and maybe i`m just too slow to realize it, but i just understand that his number (#54) is exactly 2 times ''biger'' than Scottys (#27)

Hey but seriously, anyone knows if Scotty worked with Cam in the summer? Or does he really is ''advisor'' in Ducks organization right now. Haven`t heard anything.

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10-19-2010, 04:44 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Kalvinators View Post
Little offtopic, and maybe i`m just too slow to realize it, but i just understand that his number (#54) is exactly 2 times ''biger'' than Scottys (#27)

Hey but seriously, anyone knows if Scotty worked with Cam in the summer? Or does he really is ''advisor'' in Ducks organization right now. Haven`t heard anything.
i think the first part is a mere coincidence. no correlation there..

as far as Scotty I'm pretty certain he is an advisor. He's been spotted around practice on numerous occasions in the stands. He also just went out to Syracuse and treated the whole defense to a meal. It's pretty apparent to me he's working with the organization.

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10-19-2010, 05:01 PM
  #97
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scotty worked a lot with cam this summer. my buddy with the ducks said scotty went out of his way working with him and helped him out further then the organization asked him to.

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10-19-2010, 05:54 PM
  #98
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I have been saying for a while that I think it would be best for Fowler to be sent down. However, his last game was by FAR his best game IMO. It wasn't his goal either, it was his decisions, positioning, etc... He just looked great. I've been one of his biggest critics so far and I still think he was being overrated here early on because the entire defense was so bad. However, if he plays the next few games like he did last game, he can't be sent down. Now if he doesn't play like he did last game, I'm ok with sending him down, because I firmly believe that you can't just play good to skip a year of juniors, you have to play great. There's a reason most of the greats played their entire junior career.

The biggest thing for me is that I want the team to make the decision based on what's best for Fowler, not what's best for the team.

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10-19-2010, 06:14 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by wesott11 View Post
scotty worked a lot with cam this summer. my buddy with the ducks said scotty went out of his way working with him and helped him out further then the organization asked him to.
I think it`s producing on the ice. Cam is really making desicions that not all are able to. It just feels like Scotty helped him and thats really great.
Those rookie mistakes isn`t so bad i think, that`s why theyre called - rookie mistakes. (or similar )

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10-19-2010, 07:19 PM
  #100
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I have been saying for a while that I think it would be best for Fowler to be sent down. However, his last game was by FAR his best game IMO. It wasn't his goal either, it was his decisions, positioning, etc... He just looked great. I've been one of his biggest critics so far and I still think he was being overrated here early on because the entire defense was so bad. However, if he plays the next few games like he did last game, he can't be sent down. Now if he doesn't play like he did last game, I'm ok with sending him down, because I firmly believe that you can't just play good to skip a year of juniors, you have to play great. There's a reason most of the greats played their entire junior career.

The biggest thing for me is that I want the team to make the decision based on what's best for Fowler, not what's best for the team.
As you probably know, I was also a super critic.

But i'm just wondering what you think he can gain from going back to the juniors??

conditioning? speed? another cup?

He may gain some of those aspects BUT he may also lose some parts of his game, such as better positioning that he has learned just in his short time here.

Playing against 16 year olds will not help him.

I would rather have him here and go through struggles and learn from them then he go back to the juniors and just skate around everyone without effort.

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