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Orr - Carkner: Year 2

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Old
10-11-2010, 10:07 PM
  #101
LeafOfBread
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Originally Posted by Bender2.0 View Post
What did I say?

I was just pointing out that Neil is an experienced player and has gone toe to toe with better fighters than Orr in his career, and so that he's not a coward who's afraid of Orr like some Leaf fans are suggesting here.


I'm sorry if that offended you. What do I have to say to be considered a reasonable poster by you? Do I have to hug Orr's balls? DO I have to talk down my team and my players? You're the one who,s been acting like a dick in this thread since yesterday pal, making fun of people and acting all smug.
Then why won't he fight Orr, ever? Orr has tried to get him to go but he won't accept. Sure, Neil may have had some tough opponents previously, but he definitely picks his spots. It's also hilarious you think he would fill in Orr when he barely even beat Brown.

And though the Orr vs Carkner fight wasn't that great, Orr still gets the slight edge in the fight. The only ones who are really arguing otherwise are Sens fans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Treehorn View Post
Love that Carkner went lefty. Orr has problems with lefties, so atleast he's doing some scouting haha. Iguess Orr gets the takedown but it was decisve either way.
And as for the guy that asked why Carkner bothers. Ask Colton about his hamburger eye, and why he didn't fight for a month?
No question Orr leads the series but Carkner's the guy that's actually done any damage.
You can live off that all you want, but at the end of the day Orr is still 4-1. Don't forget how Carkner got hit on the button once and looked like Havlat after he got hit in the 2009 playoffs. He was so delirious that he actually asked Orr to go again

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10-12-2010, 09:01 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by LeafOfBread View Post
Then why won't he fight Orr, ever? Orr has tried to get him to go but he won't accept. Sure, Neil may have had some tough opponents previously, but he definitely picks his spots. It's also hilarious you think he would fill in Orr when he barely even beat Brown.

And though the Orr vs Carkner fight wasn't that great, Orr still gets the slight edge in the fight. The only ones who are really arguing otherwise are Sens fans.



You can live off that all you want, but at the end of the day Orr is still 4-1. Don't forget how Carkner got hit on the button once and looked like Havlat after he got hit in the 2009 playoffs. He was so delirious that he actually asked Orr to go again
Dude, I'm not saying that Orr isn't getting the better of Carkner, all I'm saying is, for the guy that said "why does Carkner bother", well he was able to do some damage to him. For some reason these discussion get so testy.
Here's how I see it Orr's up 4-1, with two big ko's. Carkner got Orr was once and caused some damage. Orr's a great fighter, and carkner is willing to go him, I enjoy it. I really liked how Carkner used his left, from what I've seen of Orr, when he has trouble (which isn't often) it's usually with lefties. Brashear owns him because of it, and Macintyre gave him some trouble lefty.

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10-12-2010, 08:41 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by TheStranger View Post
I think you missed my point. It has nothing to do with being tough. I would just love to have a million dollars a year. My point was that Carkner is expected to fight these guys, if he doesn't do that, he's of little or no use.
Actually, I won't argue that this fight was a draw, which if you watch the reply in slomo, it is, I will say that Carkner is a more useful/better hockey player than Orr and there should be NO argument about that.

Compare a guy that plays 17 min a game for a playoff team compared to a 5 min a game guy who sees rare 3rd period minutes.

Please don't tell me what Orr meant to the Leafs last year, they were 2nd last in league, so don't tell me how good a hockey player he is for a goon, if you watch him skate it is borderline embarrassing.

Orr has Carkners number, thats for sure, but that does not make Carkner a joke, ORr lost to Brashear 7 times without ever breaking Brashears orbital bone. Carkner lost 2 fights badly last year, both to Orr in 25 fights. Orr lost bad to Carkner, and Shelley.

Orr is top 3 fighter in the league, but got knocked silly just as much as Carkner last year, live by the sword...........

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10-12-2010, 09:17 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by The Expert View Post
You haven't even been relevant for years.
If your gunna beak the leafs at least change it up a bit, I've seen you use that several times now. Gotta switch it up now and again.

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10-16-2010, 08:22 AM
  #105
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I don't know why sens fans even bother...

Give Orr best-hockey-fighter-ever title. Let them feel like they actually won/will win something. I don't even know how so many people can handle being fans of such a joke organization.

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10-16-2010, 10:00 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by LeafOfBread View Post
Then why won't he fight Orr, ever? Orr has tried to get him to go but he won't accept. Sure, Neil may have had some tough opponents previously, but he definitely picks his spots. It's also hilarious you think he would fill in Orr when he barely even beat Brown.

And though the Orr vs Carkner fight wasn't that great, Orr still gets the slight edge in the fight. The only ones who are really arguing otherwise are Sens fans.
No, they are not leafs fans. There is a difference.

Neil picks his spots when he is not the enforcer on the team. It was the same thing when they called up McGrattan. Neil plays more instead of fighting which is natural.

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10-16-2010, 11:17 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by longsuffering View Post
Actually, I won't argue that this fight was a draw, which if you watch the reply in slomo, it is, I will say that Carkner is a more useful/better hockey player than Orr and there should be NO argument about that.

Compare a guy that plays 17 min a game for a playoff team compared to a 5 min a game guy who sees rare 3rd period minutes.

Please don't tell me what Orr meant to the Leafs last year, they were 2nd last in league, so don't tell me how good a hockey player he is for a goon, if you watch him skate it is borderline embarrassing.

Orr has Carkners number, thats for sure, but that does not make Carkner a joke, ORr lost to Brashear 7 times without ever breaking Brashears orbital bone. Carkner lost 2 fights badly last year, both to Orr in 25 fights. Orr lost bad to Carkner, and Shelley.

Orr is top 3 fighter in the league, but got knocked silly just as much as Carkner last year, live by the sword...........
Orr is a great fighter but he isn't a top 3 fighter

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Old
11-02-2010, 10:39 PM
  #108
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So Carkner doesn't drop them, then Orr gets a roughing penalty and we score a goal. thanks Colton!

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11-02-2010, 11:56 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by The Expert View Post
You haven't even been relevant for years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drama View Post
I don't know why sens fans even bother...

Give Orr best-hockey-fighter-ever title. Let them feel like they actually won/will win something. I don't even know how so many people can handle being fans of such a joke organization.
There is a lot wrong with these posts. I get sick of seeing this crap posted on the boards all of the time, so let me show you why Toronto is not a "joke" organization and is much more relevant than a team like Ottawa..

Toronto is the largest hockey market in the world and because of that, the Maple Leafs are the most valuable hockey franchise in the world ($470 million). In 2009 the NHL's total operating income was about $183.5 million and the Leafs accounted for $78.9 million (43%) of the total. They may not have done a very good job recently, but to question this organization and call it a joke is just ridiculous.

To answer the bolded there are many reasons that people are fans of Toronto. The Toronto organization is an original NHL team and many of us have ties to the team. Some of us had grandparents or even great grandparents who were Leafs fans and this tradition has been passed down through generations of our families. Many fans of newer (not original 6) teams don't understand what it is like to be fans for a team like Toronto, Montreal, Boston, etc. but we have deep ties to these teams (and the rivalries) and will never stop cheering for these teams. Yes there are many bonehead fans just like every other team has (and we can be VERY delusional at times), but it would seem that we have more because there are so many of us.

The Leafs may be in a rough patch, but don't be so ignorant to call this organization a joke. If the Maple Leafs didn't exist, the NHL probably wouldn't either. No need to bad mouth an entire fanbase and organization. Sorry, but I just hate when I see posts like that.

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11-03-2010, 12:12 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by smitty10 View Post
There is a lot wrong with these posts. I get sick of seeing this crap posted on the boards all of the time, so let me show you why Toronto is not a "joke" organization and is much more relevant than a team like Ottawa..

Toronto is the largest hockey market in the world and because of that, the Maple Leafs are the most valuable hockey franchise in the world ($470 million). In 2009 the NHL's total operating income was about $183.5 million and the Leafs accounted for $78.9 million (43%) of the total. They may not have done a very good job recently, but to question this organization and call it a joke is just ridiculous.

To answer the bolded there are many reasons that people are fans of Toronto. The Toronto organization is an original NHL team and many of us have ties to the team. Some of us had grandparents or even great grandparents who were Leafs fans and this tradition has been passed down through generations of our families. Many fans of newer (not original 6) teams don't understand what it is like to be fans for a team like Toronto, Montreal, Boston, etc. but we have deep ties to these teams (and the rivalries) and will never stop cheering for these teams. Yes there are many bonehead fans just like every other team has (and we can be VERY delusional at times), but it would seem that we have more because there are so many of us.

The Leafs may be in a rough patch, but don't be so ignorant to call this organization a joke. If the Maple Leafs didn't exist, the NHL probably wouldn't either. No need to bad mouth an entire fanbase and organization. Sorry, but I just hate when I see posts like that.
Who cares about how much your team makes? how big your fan base is? Winning is all that matters, and you haven't done much of that. Toronto is a joke of a Franchise because all that matters is money, the Leafs owners could care less if they win, in the end they still get sell out games and merch revenues up the ass.

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11-03-2010, 12:31 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Dany Heatley Allstar View Post
Who cares about how much your team makes? how big your fan base is? Winning is all that matters, and you haven't done much of that. Toronto is a joke of a Franchise because all that matters is money, the Leafs owners could care less if they win, in the end they still get sell out games and merch revenues up the ass.
What do you mean? Toronto spends to the cap and has a fairly high payroll on the Marlies, but we are stuck with a young, inexperienced team currently that is either very hot or very cold (which they have been lately). The Leafs have $63 million committed to salary right now so you can't really use that argument when attempting to put down the Leafs. It's just ignorant and wrong.

You are wayyy off on the "winning is all that matters" attitude. It's a nice way to think, but let's be serious here. The NHL is a business and in order to be the best in the world and attract the best players, they must make money. Also, the revenue sharing money that the Leafs give out every year keeps many teams in this league.

The Leafs have great ticket sales and merchandise revenue up the ass like you said, but you cannot seriously say they don't spend money (although it would seem ineffective). The Leafs are just currently unsuccessful and you, as an Ottawa fan, must know what that's like considering what the Sens went through in the 90's/ early 2000's. The Leafs are just in a drought and at some point (hopefully soon) will be successful in winning just like they are successful in the business of hockey.

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11-03-2010, 12:39 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Dany Heatley Allstar View Post
Who cares about how much your team makes? how big your fan base is? Winning is all that matters, and you haven't done much of that. Toronto is a joke of a Franchise because all that matters is money, the Leafs owners could care less if they win, in the end they still get sell out games and merch revenues up the ass.
You're truly clueless. You want to spout off about how Toronto owners don't want to win, but you really have nothing to back it up. They go out and sign Brian Burke and Ron Wilson (neither came cheap) and spend to the ceiling of the salary cap every year. They spend to get guys like Nonis and Allaire in which helps identify talent and, in Allaire's case, helps with recruitment.

What more could/should they be doing? You can argue that they've made some bad choices in some of their hiring practices, but they spend their money. When there was no cap, they were one of the top spending teams in the league.

The Leafs have made some mistakes since the lockout, but these things take time. Before the lockout, it was Toronto handing Ottawa their lunch, playoff after playoff. Were you chirping back then?

I'm comfortable with the plan Burke seems to have. While I'm not a big fan of the Kessel trade, there wasn't one major hockey publication predicting the Leafs would be as bad as they were.

I'm willing to be patient because I live in Toronto and have supported the team for years. I won't jump ship because some idiot fans of other teams like to talk about how Toronto ownership doesn't care about the fans or how Toronto has not been relevant for some time.

And it may be early and temporary, but which team currently has the better winning percentage? You want to talk about winning, but the future of the Sens isn't looking quite so rosy, now is it.

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11-03-2010, 02:33 AM
  #113
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You're truly clueless. You want to spout off about how Toronto owners don't want to win, but you really have nothing to back it up. They go out and sign Brian Burke and Ron Wilson (neither came cheap) and spend to the ceiling of the salary cap every year. They spend to get guys like Nonis and Allaire in which helps identify talent and, in Allaire's case, helps with recruitment.

What more could/should they be doing? You can argue that they've made some bad choices in some of their hiring practices, but they spend their money. When there was no cap, they were one of the top spending teams in the league.

The Leafs have made some mistakes since the lockout, but these things take time. Before the lockout, it was Toronto handing Ottawa their lunch, playoff after playoff. Were you chirping back then?

I'm comfortable with the plan Burke seems to have. While I'm not a big fan of the Kessel trade, there wasn't one major hockey publication predicting the Leafs would be as bad as they were.

I'm willing to be patient because I live in Toronto and have supported the team for years. I won't jump ship because some idiot fans of other teams like to talk about how Toronto ownership doesn't care about the fans or how Toronto has not been relevant for some time.

And it may be early and temporary, but which team currently has the better winning percentage? You want to talk about winning, but the future of the Sens isn't looking quite so rosy, now is it.
Yeah they finally seemed to have turned it around, but before that happens, they are still seen as the team they were post lockout. Until they do something, then maybe they will get some recognition but they haven't. No I wasn't chirping back then, how can I when Ottawa one of the smallest market teams in pro sports still had a competing team year after year, when having to face a team with their salary almost doubled their own. Wow winning percentage, good one there... You cling on to every thing you have. After Kadri there are no real top end prospects, and you will not get one again this year. So have fun with that.

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11-03-2010, 03:04 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Dany Heatley Allstar View Post
Yeah they finally seemed to have turned it around, but before that happens, they are still seen as the team they were post lockout. Until they do something, then maybe they will get some recognition but they haven't. No I wasn't chirping back then, how can I when Ottawa one of the smallest market teams in pro sports still had a competing team year after year, when having to face a team with their salary almost doubled their own. Wow winning percentage, good one there... You cling on to every thing you have. After Kadri there are no real top end prospects, and you will not get one again this year. So have fun with that.
Well for a team that doesn't get any recognition, it seems fans of other teams (especially Ottawa, Montreal and Vancouver) love to post in threads about the Leafs. And while the Leafs won't get a top draft pick this year, they have managed to sign a number of free agents that other teams have wanted. The Monster, Hanson, Bozak, Rynnas, Mueller, etc. have all signed with the Leafs over the past couple of years, not costing a single pick. As well, the core of the Leafs is young. Phaneuf, Schenn, Gunnarson, Bozak, Kessel, Versteeg, Kulemin, and Gustavsson are all 25 or under. So while the team will miss having those two high picks, we did get Kessel out of the deal and have a decent future based on just the core.

So if it makes you feel good to try and put down the Leafs, then keep at it. I'll enjoy cheering for my team as they continue to work at becoming a playoff team. That's what fans do...they support their team. And Toronto has the best fans in the NHL.

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11-03-2010, 07:36 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Dany Heatley Allstar View Post
Who cares about how much your team makes? how big your fan base is? Winning is all that matters, and you haven't done much of that. Toronto is a joke of a Franchise because all that matters is money, the Leafs owners could care less if they win, in the end they still get sell out games and merch revenues up the ass.
Yeah, because Ottawa has done soooo much, right?

Honestly you seem to be quite ignorant on the Leafs in general. Don't be upset because there's more Leafs fans in Ottawa then Sens fans.

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11-03-2010, 08:02 AM
  #116
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why on earth would one be proud of high ticket prices and suits clogging up 90% of the seats?

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11-03-2010, 08:09 AM
  #117
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why on earth would one be proud of high ticket prices and suits clogging up 90% of the seats?
Actual Leafs fan base =/= 90% of the people in the ACC.

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11-03-2010, 11:31 AM
  #118
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Once again, Thanks Colton for that left punch and the power play was really swell too, thanks!

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11-03-2010, 02:06 PM
  #119
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Yeah, because Ottawa has done soooo much, right?

Honestly you seem to be quite ignorant on the Leafs in general. Don't be upset because there's more Leafs fans in Ottawa then Sens fans.
Well Ottawa has done a hell of a lot more in the years they've been in the league compared to the Leafs during that time. And with Murray finally restocking our farm system, it looks bright.

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11-03-2010, 02:17 PM
  #120
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I'm unbiased I think and I call that a draw and a crappy fight. 0 punches landed. Both guys avoiding getting KO'd. Weak. Next.

EDIT: Watched it again and at the end, Orr landed a quick glancing blow. Still a letdown from these two.

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11-03-2010, 02:53 PM
  #121
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Orr landed the only punch last night, he takes another one!

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11-03-2010, 03:00 PM
  #122
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Orr landed the only punch last night, he takes another one!
lol. Probably one of the best posts in this abortion of a thread.

Thank you for bringing some levity.

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11-03-2010, 03:04 PM
  #123
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Well Ottawa has done a hell of a lot more in the years they've been in the league compared to the Leafs during that time. And with Murray finally restocking our farm system, it looks bright.
And Burke has done the same with ours. He's brought in Mueller, Gustavsson, Bozak, Hanson, Irwin, Gysbers, Rynnas and Scrivens as free agents and he has also restocked our prospect pool.

I looked into what you said about Ottawa being more successful than Toronto since they have been in the NHL because many people on these boards have very short memories and only remember recent years.

Since the 1992-93 season when Ottawa entered the league, the Maple Leafs have been out of the playoffs 7 times, while the Sens have missed 5 times. However, Ottawa has only made it passed the quarters 5 times in those years, while Toronto has been passed the first round 7 times, with no appearances in the finals, while Ottawa has made it once. Also, since 92-93 Toronto's regular season record is 648-497-93, while Ottawa's is 562-576-172.

Now no one can argue that Ottawa has been more successful since the lockout, but think about what you've said. Toronto has been much better than you probably thought.

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11-03-2010, 04:06 PM
  #124
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And Burke has done the same with ours. He's brought in Mueller, Gustavsson, Bozak, Hanson, Irwin, Gysbers, Rynnas and Scrivens as free agents and he has also restocked our prospect pool.

I looked into what you said about Ottawa being more successful than Toronto since they have been in the NHL because many people on these boards have very short memories and only remember recent years.

Since the 1992-93 season when Ottawa entered the league, the Maple Leafs have been out of the playoffs 7 times, while the Sens have missed 5 times. However, Ottawa has only made it passed the quarters 5 times in those years, while Toronto has been passed the first round 7 times, with no appearances in the finals, while Ottawa has made it once. Also, since 92-93 Toronto's regular season record is 648-497-93, while Ottawa's is 562-576-172.

Now no one can argue that Ottawa has been more successful since the lockout, but think about what you've said. Toronto has been much better than you probably thought.
I agree with what you're saying, I think my first post was misunderstood. Right after the lockout the leafs were a joke, now they are starting to turn it around. But they still have that label attached to them. Burke has done a decent job although the Kessel and Versteeg trades could backfire. I think Giguere was there best move, he can be scary good.

But most people look at post lockout success, and since then it's not even close. They look at it because, thats the way the game is played today, the cap is here and people can't buy teams anymore. More people like you need to make arguments, many people from both fan bases embarrass their whole fan base.

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