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Old
08-20-2010, 12:45 PM
  #1
TheProfessor1
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Questions about fantasy hockey

The NHL season is approaching quickly which means that the fantasy hockey season is also near. I have played fantasy hockey with friends before but am considering joining some more serious and active leagues this season. (Going undefeated last year made me realize that I had "outgrown" the local competition).

So I have a couple of questions about what providers and league types give the most fulfilling and enjoyable experience. (Any help is greatly appreciated. Don't feel like you have to answer all my questions, just which ever ones you have an opinion on and would like to share.)

1. Client: ESPN or Yahoo or other?

2. Drafting: Snake or Auction?

3. Team composition: 9 F or 3LW / 3C / 3RW?

4. Scoring: Rotisserie or H2H?

5. League size: 5 / 10 / 15?

Thanks in advance for any responses.

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08-20-2010, 01:13 PM
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hockeyball
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProfessor1 View Post
The NHL season is approaching quickly which means that the fantasy hockey season is also near. I have played fantasy hockey with friends before but am considering joining some more serious and active leagues this season. (Going undefeated last year made me realize that I had "outgrown" the local competition).

So I have a couple of questions about what providers and league types give the most fulfilling and enjoyable experience. (Any help is greatly appreciated. Don't feel like you have to answer all my questions, just which ever ones you have an opinion on and would like to share.)

1. Client: ESPN or Yahoo or other?

2. Drafting: Snake or Auction?

3. Team composition: 9 F or 3LW / 3C / 3RW?

4. Scoring: Rotisserie or H2H?

5. League size: 5 / 10 / 15?

Thanks in advance for any responses.
I helped organize our league last year, and let me just say that a lot of your questions were up for considerable debate, but i'll post my opinions.

1. I like ESPN's stats better, but we had a tough time getting people to move over there, so we went with Yahoo. ESPN has some interface issues as well comparitively.

2. Not sure on the terminology, but I think snake. Last team to pick in 1st round is 1st team to pick in second round? That's pretty standard, i've never done an auction type, but it seems too dependent on people showing up for the draft, which generally only half do.

3. I like 6f (2lw, 2c, 2r2) 3d. But I could life with 9 and 4 too. Either way, I think the ratio should be consistent.

4. I prefer H2H, considerably. I have never enjoyed leagues that did anything else.

5. I would say 10+. Anything below 10 is too subject to flakers. If 2 guys flake in a 5 person league (had this happen) your pretty much done for the year.


The thing I think will be up for debate in our league's this year is goalie stats. I really liked what we did last year, it made goalies less critical to team success. Usually in most leagues, so many stats (Wins, save %, GAA, Losses, etc) are goalie centric that you pretty much win or lose based on your goalie selection, and the rest of the players are just a bonus.

We took out wins/losses and i think it really kept the leagues more competitive over the course of the year. Personally, I'd like to take it one small step further and reduce the number of starts required (I think we had 4, i'd go with 3) and it would be perfect. I'm sure others will totally and completely disagree. People were pretty pissed last season. So expect a wide variety of responses.

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08-20-2010, 01:31 PM
  #3
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I assume we'll be doing 4 leagues of 14 again? It worked well last year.

I know last year my league was composed of the best performers from the year prior. I'de be down for that again. Take the 4 league winners and the best records from the rest.
Yay fantasy hockey.


Last edited by Shape: 08-27-2010 at 09:24 PM.
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Old
08-20-2010, 01:33 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
I helped organize our league last year, and let me just say that a lot of your questions were up for considerable debate, but i'll post my opinions.

1. I like ESPN's stats better, but we had a tough time getting people to move over there, so we went with Yahoo. ESPN has some interface issues as well comparitively.

2. Not sure on the terminology, but I think snake. Last team to pick in 1st round is 1st team to pick in second round? That's pretty standard, i've never done an auction type, but it seems too dependent on people showing up for the draft, which generally only half do.

3. I like 6f (2lw, 2c, 2r2) 3d. But I could life with 9 and 4 too. Either way, I think the ratio should be consistent.

4. I prefer H2H, considerably. I have never enjoyed leagues that did anything else.

5. I would say 10+. Anything below 10 is too subject to flakers. If 2 guys flake in a 5 person league (had this happen) your pretty much done for the year.


The thing I think will be up for debate in our league's this year is goalie stats. I really liked what we did last year, it made goalies less critical to team success. Usually in most leagues, so many stats (Wins, save %, GAA, Losses, etc) are goalie centric that you pretty much win or lose based on your goalie selection, and the rest of the players are just a bonus.

We took out wins/losses and i think it really kept the leagues more competitive over the course of the year. Personally, I'd like to take it one small step further and reduce the number of starts required (I think we had 4, i'd go with 3) and it would be perfect. I'm sure others will totally and completely disagree. People were pretty pissed last season. So expect a wide variety of responses.
Thanks for the reply.

2. Snake is exactly what you said. First in 1st is last in 2nd. I have always been intrigued by the auction style but have never done it and your point is a very good one. Auto bidding probably doesn't work too well.

3. 9 was an arbitrary number. I would think that it should be based on the number of teams in your league.

5. Again I hadn't thought about the no-show problem before. I guess because I have always played with people I know it hasn't been a problem.

I agree with you on the goalie stats. I had rask on my team last year and it was almost unfair how many points he racked up. Because of the low number of slots and and high number of stats, I feel like the goalie position is the one most affected by surprise performances and lucky drafting.

Also, count me in for any HF board league you guys run this year. Can't wait to participate in a draft where the first 5 players aren't all from the sharks...

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Old
08-20-2010, 03:35 PM
  #5
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1. Client: ESPN or Yahoo or other?
I like ESPN but most people check Yahoo more often for some reason ...

2. Drafting: Snake or Auction?
Snake ... Auction sucks

3. Team composition: 9 F or 3LW / 3C / 3RW?
For me, 4C - 3LW - 3RW - 5D - 2G - 5Bench

4. Scoring: Rotisserie or H2H?
I used to be a Roto guy but H2H is a lot more fun

5. League size: 5 / 10 / 15?
16

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Old
08-20-2010, 03:44 PM
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This Yahoo setup has worked really well for a league based around a Finnish hockey board. You'll need 20 active teams for it though.


Draft Type: Live Standard Draft
Draft Time:
Max Teams: 20
Scoring Type: Head-to-Head
Max Moves: No maximum
Max Trades: No maximum
Trade Reject Time: 3
Trade End Date: March 4, 2010
Waiver Time: 2 days
Can't Cut List Provider: Yahoo! Sports
Trade Review: Commissioner
Post Draft Players: Follow Waiver Rules
Max Acquisitions per Week: 3
Min Games Played: 3
Weekly Deadline: Daily - Tomorrow
Start Scoring on: Week 1
Playoffs: Week 23, 24 and 25 (8 teams) Note: Week 25 runs 7 days from Apr 5 to Apr 11
Divisions: No
Roster Positions: C, C, C, LW, LW, LW, RW, RW, RW, W, W, F, D, D, D, D, D, D, G, G, BN, BN, BN, IR, IR
Forwards/Defensemen Stat Categories: Goals (G), Assists (A), Points (P), Plus/Minus (+/-), Penalty Minutes (PIM), Powerplay Goals (PPG), Powerplay Assists (PPA), Shorthanded Points (SHP), Game-Winning Goals (GWG), Shots on Goal (SOG), Faceoffs Won (FW)
Goaltenders Stat Categories: Wins (W), Goals Against Average (GAA), Save Percentage (SV%), Shutouts (SHO)

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Old
08-25-2010, 09:55 PM
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Figured I'd bump this because I just noticed that Yahoo has opened up Fantasy Hockey for the 2010-11 season. Let me know if you want an active manager because I'm looking for a bounceback year!

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08-25-2010, 10:35 PM
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id love to join one of the yahoo leagues, if theres room. i'm a pretty good fantasy owner. multiple championships in all four of the major sports. i suggest changing PPG and PPA into simply: PPP, and SHG instead of SHP or SHA (shorthanded) if you plan on using those. Ex. Braydon Coburn shouldnt get points because Mike Richards is the most prolific SHG scorer in the league.

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08-25-2010, 10:40 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magic school bus View Post
id love to join one of the yahoo leagues, if theres room. i'm a pretty good fantasy owner. multiple championships in all four of the major sports. i suggest changing PPG and PPA into simply: PPP, and SHG instead of SHP or SHA (shorthanded) if you plan on using those. Ex. Braydon Coburn shouldnt get points because Mike Richards is the most prolific SHG scorer in the league.
These are the stats we used last year in the 4 leagues.

(G),(A),(+/-),(PIM),(PPP),(SOG),(FW)

(GAA),(SV%),(SHO)


Not sure if we will keep them the same this year. I assume I should be getting an email from Nem sooner than later to get this and the leagues sorted out.

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08-25-2010, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shape View Post
These are the stats we used last year in the 4 leagues.

(G),(A),(+/-),(PIM),(PPP),(SOG),(FW)

(GAA),(SV%),(SHO)


Not sure if we will keep them the same this year. I assume I should be getting an email from Nem sooner than later to get this and the leagues sorted out.
i've used Wins and Saves as stats also. it benefits the fantasy owner that actually checks each week.. im cool with using all those offensive stats. SHG could be another stat if you want to make the goalie less valuable in comparison with the offensive position players.

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08-25-2010, 10:55 PM
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ESPN is great but, unfortunately, it tends to fall victim to people who stop checking it after a while. I hope to see it become a little more popular/common.

I am definitely up for commissioning an hf team again this year.

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Old
08-25-2010, 10:56 PM
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I tried an ESPN league last year with these settings and I think I preferred ESPN over Yahoo:

Current Roster Size: 23

Total Starters: 20

Total On Bench: 3 (5 IR)

Position Starters Maximum
Center (C) 3 No Limit
Left Wing (LW) 3 No Limit
Right Wing (RW) 3 No Limit
Defense (D) 6 No Limit
Utility (UTIL) 3 N/A
Goalie (G) 2 No Limit
Bench (BE) 3 N/A
Injured Reserve (IR) 5 N/A


IMPORTANT! If you were part of my league last year and want to play again this year, make sure you log in and select your 5 keeper players from last year!!!


Keeper Lock Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010 at 5:00 PM ET
Keepers to Select: 5

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08-25-2010, 11:16 PM
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Yeah, I'll get in contacting the commissioners from last year's Shark board fantasy hockey so we can get things sorted out. We do have some work to do to fix a few problems.

also I pretty much agree with what hockeyball said. I liked ESPN's stat options, but too many people here were resistant to switching from Yahoo.

I also do think that Auction is intriguing, but really it' something that works best if everyone is in the same physical room. With differing schedules and distance over the internet doing a standard snake draft is just easier.

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08-25-2010, 11:24 PM
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i'm assuming these leagues are free to join. am i wrong?

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08-25-2010, 11:26 PM
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i'm assuming these leagues are free to join. am i wrong?
ESPN and yahoo are, yes.

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08-25-2010, 11:43 PM
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How do I reserve a spot in a league, and are you guys going to have one. Forgive me as I have never done any fantasy sport and I'm completely new to the idea.

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08-26-2010, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magic school bus View Post
Ex. Braydon Coburn shouldnt get points because Mike Richards is the most prolific SHG scorer in the league.
Isn't that just the idea of Fantasy Hockey, get your stars in the first rounds and the leechers of your opponent's stars in the later rounds...

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08-26-2010, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magic school bus View Post
i've used Wins and Saves as stats also. it benefits the fantasy owner that actually checks each week.. im cool with using all those offensive stats. SHG could be another stat if you want to make the goalie less valuable in comparison with the offensive position players.
Lack of a Wins category is one of my biggest gripes about last year's scoring system. Put in my vote for adding it this year.

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08-26-2010, 04:28 PM
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Isn't that just the idea of Fantasy Hockey, get your stars in the first rounds and the leechers of your opponent's stars in the later rounds...
yes, to a degree.. but a team shorthanded has 4 players on the ice. if richards scores then 3 of 4 players on the ice could get points automatically. imagine the rare 5 on 3 SHG... i just dont think SHA is worthy of being counted as a stat.

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08-26-2010, 04:33 PM
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I trust I'll be in the Elite League again, pip pip, as I was in first for most of the year, pip pip - then I Sharked out in the first round, but that's not important!

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08-26-2010, 04:36 PM
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fantasy hockey too much work. too hard. haha. sticking to Football.

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08-26-2010, 04:44 PM
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Lack of a Wins category is one of my biggest gripes about last year's scoring system. Put in my vote for adding it this year.
I enjoyed it thoroughly. I think Wins is a stupid stat for fantasy hockey and adds way too much weight to the goalie position. In fact, I'd prefer to weaken the goalie necessity slightly more by lowering the starts required to 3.

You should not NEED 3 goalie rotation to be successful, that's not even remotely balanced.

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08-26-2010, 04:47 PM
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if there are any available spots I would be interested in one. I have played fantasy sports for about 7-8 years now and would definitely keep up with my team. In reality though I need something to occupy my time during the day since work sucks...

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08-26-2010, 05:14 PM
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I enjoyed it thoroughly. I think Wins is a stupid stat for fantasy hockey and adds way too much weight to the goalie position. In fact, I'd prefer to weaken the goalie necessity slightly more by lowering the starts required to 3.

You should not NEED 3 goalie rotation to be successful, that's not even remotely balanced.
it's fantasy hockey, not real hockey presented by scotty bowman. the goalie position is a position just like a defenseman, or forward. they are all important, as they should be. what exactly do you have against the wins stat in particular if you use a stat like SHO instead? (SHO is won more by luck than by design)

do you guys start two goalies or one? i'm wondering why you mentioned having 3 goalies. in my leagues, we just start one goalie, most teams will have a back-up for every position anyways. 10 teams X 2 goalies = 20 goalies. the rest of the 10 goalies suck...

there are only 5 legit goalie stats available IMO (Wins, Saves, Save %, GAA, Shutouts). most leagues i've seen have around 12 stats total. goalie stats are there to give fantasy hockey a more authentic feel with offensive stats and defensive stats.

goalies like Brodeur, Luongo, and Nabokov have been top 25 draft picks because they impact the head to head matchups as much as every position player. i think that's pretty fair if someone is willing to pass on Parise to draft Brodeur. it's fun to see different styles going up against each other. ex. traditional NJ Devils (goal-prevention) or WAS Caps (out-score opponents).

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08-26-2010, 05:30 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by magic school bus View Post
it's fantasy hockey, not real hockey presented by scotty bowman. the goalie position is a position just like a defenseman, or forward. they are all important, as they should be. what exactly do you have against the wins stat in particular if you use a stat like SHO instead? (SHO is won more by luck than by design)

do you guys start two goalies or one? i'm wondering why you mentioned having 3 goalies. in my leagues, we just start one goalie, most teams will have a back-up for every position anyways. 10 teams X 2 goalies = 20 goalies. the rest of the 10 goalies suck...

there are only 5 legit goalie stats available IMO (Wins, Saves, Save %, GAA, Shutouts). most leagues i've seen have around 12 stats total. goalie stats are there to give fantasy hockey a more authentic feel with offensive stats and defensive stats.

goalies like Brodeur, Luongo, and Nabokov have been top 25 draft picks because they impact the head to head matchups as much as every position player. i think that's pretty fair if someone is willing to pass on Parise to draft Brodeur. it's fun to see different styles going up against each other. ex. traditional NJ Devils (goal-prevention) or WAS Caps (out-score opponents).
The problem is that goalie stats on yahoo (and mostly ESPN too sadly) are limited. Stats like Wins, losses, and even GAA to some degree are really team/defense stats, not purely goalie stats. Since we are not icing the entire team that goalie plays with, those stats are not particularly relevant. We used shut outs as a fun 'saving throw' type stat to give someone that occasional surprise win in a category.

What tends to happen is a commissioner will set their league up with 10-15 available categories. When you use wins, SV%, GAA, saves, and losses you end up with 5 of your categories being entirely tired up in the goalie position. That means a full 33-50% of your stats depend on one single player in on position. So because of that, it is imperative that your goalie's make their required number of starts for the week, so most of the best GM's pick 3 goalies and rotate.

We just reduced the number of categories a goalie gets. We used GAA (not ideal either), SV% and Shut outs only, so goalies only had 3 categories.

Goalies are one big problem in fantasy hockey, the other is defensive stats. Shots faced, shots blocked, shots allowed, turnovers, giveaways, etc are not options. That's why ESPN is a little better as they've got a few more options there for defensive stats.

I certainly agree that Wins is an important stat in Hockey, but it's deceptive in fantasy hockey. The reason we removed it was because we wanted to reduce the requirement to have 3 goalies in order to win. Remember, there are only so many goalies in the league, and if you have a large league like we do, some folks are just totally hosed right from the start if they don't get at least 2 goalies who get regular starts. What happens then is people lose interest and stop playing. This was an attempt to improve that situation, and I think it was at least somewhat effective.

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