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Phillies 2010 Postseason: Red October III

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10-17-2010, 11:12 AM
  #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by letitrain View Post
Raul has to catch that ball though.
Yeah, I was hoping to get a shot of a great play when I took this.


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10-17-2010, 11:13 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Timonen View Post
My "worry" meter barely moves. Im still confident.
My worry meter was on high before the loss. We beat the Reds without hitting, and we're still not hitting. This team has shown that it will go into team wide slumps for periods of time and we're in one right now. If the bats don't wake up its going to be a short series.

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Halladay F'd up in this game. The two HR balls were bad pitches conceptually, not just in execution. The second time around was simply terrible (why throw it there again?). Same thing happened with Pat the Bat... threw it exactly where you shouldn't.

C'est la vie. Gotta win tonight.
The first pitch was a decent pitch. I agree with you that it wasn't a good idea conceptually but the pitch itself had good movement on it, but Ross was just all over it. However, there is no excuse to throw the same pitch to the same guy in the same spot. I thought Chooch had a poor game behind the plate. During Pat's at bat I was pleading with my television for them to call a breaking ball or at least something away because we all know he would have swung over it. Instead, they throw a fastball inside to a guy who made an entire professional career out of hitting inside fastballs.

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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Raul is not a good fielder. He gets the balls that are hit too him, but not as sharp if he's on the run.
He's an average fielder. He has made plenty of plays on the run and even diving catches, he isn't Burrell, but he isn't anything special in the field.

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10-17-2010, 11:18 AM
  #153
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I was watching game 6 of the 2005 NLCS a couple of months ago on the MLB Network. That is game after the Pujols hit that moonshot of Lidge, and Oswalt through great. He stepped up big then and he is going to come up huge tonight.

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10-17-2010, 11:32 AM
  #154
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I was at the game, how disappointing. I've been too depressed to read much about the game, but from where I was it looked like the umps were really screwing us pretty bad.

Also, Jimmy Rollins is awful.

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10-17-2010, 11:37 AM
  #155
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The umps weren't bad. They were consistent for both starters and calling the strike zone basically the same. However, the low and away corner was not given to either a d then when Wilson came in it magically appeared again. That's the only problem I had.

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10-17-2010, 12:23 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by letitrain View Post
Raul has to catch that ball though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Blaine View Post
Yeah, really, wtf was that ****?
That would have been a FANTASTIC play by a guy that is not a fantastic defensive player.

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10-17-2010, 12:27 PM
  #157
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Good thing Howard is at the Eagles game right now chilling with Tony Siragusa.

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10-17-2010, 12:34 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Protest the Hero View Post
The first pitch was a decent pitch. I agree with you that it wasn't a good idea conceptually but the pitch itself had good movement on it, but Ross was just all over it. However, there is no excuse to throw the same pitch to the same guy in the same spot. I thought Chooch had a poor game behind the plate. During Pat's at bat I was pleading with my television for them to call a breaking ball or at least something away because we all know he would have swung over it. Instead, they throw a fastball inside to a guy who made an entire professional career out of hitting inside fastballs.
Ross is a dead pull hitter that loves to just turn on the ball. How many HRs have we seen him hit just like that? There's no explanation for why they were throwing in there to him in either case. He was the 8 hole hitter with a dead stick batting behind him... just keep the ball away from him and let him get himself out.

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10-17-2010, 12:42 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
That would have been a FANTASTIC play by a guy that is not a fantastic defensive player.
My comment was more directed at his gymnastics jump than anything. It just looked weird.

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10-17-2010, 01:13 PM
  #160
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Well, obviously must win tonight. I like Hamels over Cain in game 3, so if you win tonight you have a decent shot at having Kentucky Joe pitching game 4 with a 2-1 lead, with essentially a chance to end the series if he can out pitch Bumgardner.

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10-17-2010, 02:17 PM
  #161
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Alot of whining about the ump last night, I honestly thought he called a VERY consistent game.

Sure, his strike zone was retarded (how is a fastball at the knees not a ****ing strike), but it was equally retarded for both pitchers.

Lincecum actually got screwed by his dumb zone more than Halladay, imo.


On a seperate note, why is no one getting on Charlie for how he mishandled the bench last night? What is the point of leading off with Brown against one of the best pitchers in the MLB? It completely screwed us in the 9th when we were forced to put Ross ****ing Gload at the plate against their right-handed closer.

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10-17-2010, 02:28 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
We would have won if the ump made the right call on the Burrell should-have-been strike.
I hate to be a dick and call you out on this, but this statement is ridiculous. Any number of things could have happened had the pitch been called a strike. The likelihood of Werth hitting the same home run in the same situation is just as high as Lincecum striking out every Philly batter for the rest of the game. It's basically like saying that, say, had Leighton not let in the cup winning goal, the Flyers would have won, or saying that if Boucher didn't get hurt, the Flyers wouldn't have made it to the Stanley Cup. It's theoretical situations based on a perception that things would be exactly the same, when the fact that something has been changed alters everything completely. The outcome was equally as likely to be a 2-1 game as it would be likely to be a 3-2 game.

Had to get it out of my system. That said, series goes 7, all games but one are tight (Bumgarner beats Blanton). Should be high stress and really fun.

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10-17-2010, 02:29 PM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
On a seperate note, why is no one getting on Charlie for how he mishandled the bench last night? What is the point of leading off with Brown against one of the best pitchers in the MLB? It completely screwed us in the 9th when we were forced to put Ross ****ing Gload at the plate against their right-handed closer.
They were clearly trying to establish Brown as the go-to LH bat off the bench late in the year, and Gload's come in and gotten the job done late in games before last night. Agreeing or disagreeing with that is probably more of the argument you could reasonably make here.

The bench is tough anyway -- it's been a real weird year for them. Charlie probably feels like he can call on any of them at any point right now.

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10-17-2010, 02:31 PM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
On a seperate note, why is no one getting on Charlie for how he mishandled the bench last night? What is the point of leading off with Brown against one of the best pitchers in the MLB? It completely screwed us in the 9th when we were forced to put Ross ****ing Gload at the plate against their right-handed closer.
Ross Gload is left-handed. He's our best left-handed bench player, so Charlie saves him until the 9th. I had absolutely no problem with that. My issue was actually with him using Valdez as a pinch-runner, or rather the timing of it. If you're going to take Chooch out of the game, why not do it before Gload's AB? My one thought is that with two outs you want the fastest guy off at the crack of the bat to have a chance to score on a single, but I don't understand why you don't do it right away. What if Gload had a bloop hit there? Not so sure Ruiz would get to 3rd but Valdez might, and then you'd have a runner on 3rd with 1 out. That was the potential blunder there.

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10-17-2010, 02:35 PM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
On a seperate note, why is no one getting on Charlie for how he mishandled the bench last night? What is the point of leading off with Brown against one of the best pitchers in the MLB? It completely screwed us in the 9th when we were forced to put Ross ****ing Gload at the plate against their right-handed closer.
Erm...

Frankly, I have more faith in Gload to get a pinch hit. That being said, I think Gload was far more likely to hit Lincecum than Brown (had he even seen him before, I don't think so) in that situation... whereas I think trying to hit a mid 90s fastball was far more likely to be a successful scenario for Brown.

That being said, I completely understand wanting to save your best leftie bullet until the 9th. Brown is going to be very good, but he's not a guy you want to rely on just yet in a big spot.

EDIT: All of that being said, I would have liked to see Francisco get a shot there, just because he's such a good fastball hitter.

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10-17-2010, 02:38 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Rick Blaine View Post
They were clearly trying to establish Brown as the go-to LH bat off the bench late in the year, and Gload's come in and gotten the job done late in games before last night. Agreeing or disagreeing with that is probably more of the argument you could reasonably make here.

The bench is tough anyway -- it's been a real weird year for them. Charlie probably feels like he can call on any of them at any point right now.
If someone is the go-to left handed bat off the bench then you don't waste him early in the game when you KNOW his spot is going to come up again later in the game and you KNOW that San Fran's closer is a righty.

It probably wouldn't have changed much, but I thought it was stupid when I saw Brown at the plate earlier in the game and felt justified when Gload was forced to come up in the 9th and was just wondering if anyone else felt the same way?

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10-17-2010, 02:41 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
If someone is the go-to left handed bat off the bench then you don't waste him early in the game when you KNOW his spot is going to come up again later in the game and you KNOW that San Fran's closer is a righty.

It probably wouldn't have changed much, but I thought it was stupid when I saw Brown at the plate earlier in the game and felt justified when Gload was forced to come up in the 9th and was just wondering if anyone else felt the same way?
...well, your problem is that you almost certainly have the order of "go-to left handed bat off the bench" backwards.

Gload is a career .280 pinch hitter... he's the guy to go with.

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10-17-2010, 02:54 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
If someone is the go-to left handed bat off the bench then you don't waste him early in the game when you KNOW his spot is going to come up again later in the game and you KNOW that San Fran's closer is a righty.

It probably wouldn't have changed much, but I thought it was stupid when I saw Brown at the plate earlier in the game and felt justified when Gload was forced to come up in the 9th and was just wondering if anyone else felt the same way?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
...well, your problem is that you almost certainly have the order of "go-to left handed bat off the bench" backwards.

Gload is a career .280 pinch hitter... he's the guy to go with.
And, what's important to realize in this context, is "go-to" really means "go-to before anyone else."

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10-17-2010, 02:56 PM
  #169
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RT @ToddZolecki: Phillies lineup Game 2 NLCS: Victorino CF, Utley 2B, Polanco 3B, Howard 1B, Werth RF, Rollins SS, Ibanez LF, Ruiz C, Oswalt P.

Doing this, I think I'd rather Rollins hit 9th.

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10-17-2010, 03:08 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
RT @ToddZolecki: Phillies lineup Game 2 NLCS: Victorino CF, Utley 2B, Polanco 3B, Howard 1B, Werth RF, Rollins SS, Ibanez LF, Ruiz C, Oswalt P.

Doing this, I think I'd rather Rollins hit 9th.
Utley hitting 2nd? Is that a typo?

And I agree, how Rollins is not hitting 8th continues to bewilder me.

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10-17-2010, 04:01 PM
  #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
Utley hitting 2nd? Is that a typo?

And I agree, how Rollins is not hitting 8th continues to bewilder me.
No typo, it's what we did earlier in the season against LHP when we were struggling offensively. Didn't work too well though.

The guy hitting for the best average on the team shouldn't be hitting 8th. We can argue about how much of his success is because he's primarily been in that spot of the order, but at this point he knows how to be patient enough to get a fastball and knows what to do with it better than Raul or Rollins.

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10-17-2010, 04:50 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by might2mash View Post
No typo, it's what we did earlier in the season against LHP when we were struggling offensively. Didn't work too well though.

The guy hitting for the best average on the team shouldn't be hitting 8th. We can argue about how much of his success is because he's primarily been in that spot of the order, but at this point he knows how to be patient enough to get a fastball and knows what to do with it better than Raul or Rollins.
It's really important that your 8-hole guy be someone who is going to get on base and clear the pitcher. Neither Ibanez or Rollins are particularly great for that role.

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10-17-2010, 06:59 PM
  #173
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It's really important that your 8-hole guy be someone who is going to get on base and clear the pitcher. Neither Ibanez or Rollins are particularly great for that role.
When you look at the small picture, yes. But if you get 5 guys on base in the first three innings, the order doesn't matter in terms of clearing the pitcher. It does matter in terms of whether runs score though. If Ruiz led off an inning as the 7th spot and got on base and Rollins pops up, same thing as Rollins popping up and then Ruiz getting on base as the 8th. Except that the potential benefits of there still being men on base for Chooch to drive in exist in the 7th spot. There's certainly give and take, but we need the hits with RISP right now.

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10-17-2010, 07:04 PM
  #174
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That would have been a FANTASTIC play by a guy that is not a fantastic defensive player.
Really? I thought all of us hockey fans would be able to agree that Raul simply pussed out on that play. He was scared that he was going to hit the wall so he jumped and put his leg out to try to cushion himself. If he HADN'T jumped he would have easily made the catch, and we would have won.

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10-17-2010, 07:07 PM
  #175
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Let's bury them into the ground. Bring it on Giants.

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