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Caps Pens "Proposal"

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Old
06-10-2004, 07:08 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capman29
Your offer is not crap it is stupid dumb unintelligent and crazy . Well if you think it is fair value then yu will love this trade:

Washington gets the Pens 1st,2nd & 3rd this year and teir 1st, 2nd & 3rd in 2006 for washingtons later two 1st and two 2nd . Very very fair for pittsburgh? Just as much as your stupid is fair to washington . Please seek mental health treatment before your brain rots
I hope you arent talking to me dude. I didnt make any "offers" so I don't know why you quoted me in your response, but a word of advice.
Stop being so rude and try to put some reasoning behind your views. You may then have your posts taken seriously by others. Because as of right now, I can assure you that they are not taken seriously and are looked at as juvinile and disrespectful.
Show some respect and reasoning before you post stuff like this. Maybe people will then listen and think you know something about hockey instead of just knowing how to throw out un-needed insults.

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06-10-2004, 07:10 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Conservative
Can someone ban him please? PLEASE. He offers nothing to the discussion, is constantly rude and has no sense of trade value.
While I agree that he has no sense of trade value, that isn't a reason to get banned.
Your other points however, are a reason to get banned and are very valid. Here is hoping he gets put in his place by a mod because I agree with you that he certainly deserves it.

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06-10-2004, 10:48 AM
  #28
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IMO, its really not too far off value wise, although a bit of a quantity vs. quality issue.
That being said, the Pens would be stupid to accept this. If they want to keep the team in Pittsburgh, they need to start winning games sooner rather then later. CP has already come out and said they are looking to spend a little bit of money to acquire help up front. No factor in the emergence of Orpik as a steady NHL D-Man and Whitney ready to step up as soon as this year, and with perhaps one of the best (and most underrated) offensive Dmen in the league in Tarnstrom the Pens back line is suddenly looking not too bad.
Last season was also an excellent year for some other rookies (namely Malone, Koltsov).
Basically, by trading Whitney for 3 picks in a rather weak draft the Pens would be taking steps back just when it seems that they are finally starting to go forward again.

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06-10-2004, 11:11 AM
  #29
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Whitney is a great defensemen but washington is overpaying IMHO a lot. You can get a lot of good quality defensemen with those picks.

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06-10-2004, 11:22 AM
  #30
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As craig1 said, this is more quantity for quality. It's decent quantity, and may be a fair offer, but as Jacov2 said, it's also a step backwards.

It makes sense for the Caps, but it's foolish for the Pens.

With Whitney, Welch, and Orpik, the Pens have good top quality defensive depth. If they do decide to trade some of this, I doubt it would be for draft picks. It would probably be to add something somewhat proven that they lack.

Whitney's also farther along in his development, and is ready to make the jump into the NHL. Even trading him for 3 pretty good players--say it's equal value--that's only a lateral move at best, and actually hurts the Penguins because Whitney is ready right now to start making an impact.

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Old
06-10-2004, 01:06 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zetterberg40
Whitney is a great defensemen but washington is overpaying IMHO a lot. You can get a lot of good quality defensemen with those picks.
Don't overrate those picks. Look back over 10 years and you'll probably find that those picks have less than 33% of turning into a decent NHL player. So if the Pens get one usable player they would be OK, and I think that Whitney is going to be a LOT better than just a useable player.

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06-10-2004, 03:15 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stardog
While I agree that he has no sense of trade value, that isn't a reason to get banned.
Your other points however, are a reason to get banned and are very valid. Here is hoping he gets put in his place by a mod because I agree with you that he certainly deserves it.
Seems to me if anyone DARE disagree w/ certain people first thing is BAN them-get a grip if anyone takes ofense to what anyone post here then Capsman is right SEEK HELP

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Old
06-10-2004, 03:18 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. kØUkLØs
Get Help please. For you're own sake.
I don't think you understand sarcasm.
The Whitney offer was as dumb. That's the meaning of the post. It explains how stupid the Whitney offer was. Of coarse I wouldn't offer that. Read man. It helps before you pass judgement.

By the way capman, Malkin is very VERY close to Ovechkin, so don't over defend your prospect. Some GMs actually admitted prefering Malkin.

Next thing you know, Leonsis will as to trade him.
so how come teams are talking to the Caps about the #1 pick... if Malkin was so close to Ovechkin why not trade w/ the Pens because he will still be on the board @ #2?

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Old
06-10-2004, 03:46 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DINO22CICCARELLI
Seems to me if anyone DARE disagree w/ certain people first thing is BAN them-get a grip if anyone takes ofense to what anyone post here then Capsman is right SEEK HELP
Not really. I could care less what Capsman, yourself, or any others think of me.
However there are rules that we all have to follow. If he is not following them then he should be treated no different than anybody else.
If his actions call for a warning/suspension or ban then he deserves it. It is as simple as that.
It has nothing to do with me disagreeing with his "opinion" (for whatever that is worth). It has to do with his demeanor and disrespectful air, which, if you check the FAQ, is against the rules.
I have been warned before for a personal attack and he should be no different.
You can disagree with that all you like, but you would be wrong.

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Old
06-10-2004, 03:48 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DINO22CICCARELLI
so how come teams are talking to the Caps about the #1 pick... if Malkin was so close to Ovechkin why not trade w/ the Pens because he will still be on the board @ #2?
How exactly do you know that teams arent discussing trades for the #2 pick with Pittsburgh? Or that they are certainly doing the same for the #1 pick with the Caps?
Are you in the war room or have privvy to some secret information that we all do not?
Just because a few people have identified the gap between the two as narrowing doesn't mean that everyone feels that way, or that AO wont be taken #1.

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06-10-2004, 10:05 PM
  #36
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Stardog, have you ever seen him play? I have, and he's ready for the NHL. Ryan for those draft picks could end up being just like the Jager trade, "three stiffs". I hope the three of them make the Pens and contribute, but right now they haven't.

Hey, I have an idea, let's trade Beech and Co. back to the Cap's for the three draft picks. Now, what's wrong with that? They were drafted with a top ten pick and two high seconds. It seems fair to me. Now do you see why I don't like the trade. It could turn out Whitney for nothing. IMO Ryan Whitney is too good to take that chance.

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Old
06-11-2004, 07:22 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Hockey
Stardog, have you ever seen him play? I have, and he's ready for the NHL. Ryan for those draft picks could end up being just like the Jager trade, "three stiffs". I hope the three of them make the Pens and contribute, but right now they haven't.

Hey, I have an idea, let's trade Beech and Co. back to the Cap's for the three draft picks. Now, what's wrong with that? They were drafted with a top ten pick and two high seconds. It seems fair to me. Now do you see why I don't like the trade. It could turn out Whitney for nothing. IMO Ryan Whitney is too good to take that chance.
Yep I have seen Whitney play. Quite a bit in fact. In college and in WBS.
Your opinion is that he is NHL ready. How can you tell against AHL talent?

My opinion is that parts of his game are worthy of the NHL, while other parts need quite a bit of work before they are NHL ready.

Just because he played well offensivley in the AHL does not make him ready for the NHL.
IMO the speed of the game will burn him defensivley at this level and there is no need to rush him into the lineup.

As for the trade idea, it could turn out to be Whitney for nothing. It could also turn out to be Whitney for 3 players better than him. There is no way of knowing how good Whitney will be in the NHL, just as much as there is no way of knowing who those three picks are and what type of careers they will have eventually.

But I must add, it is only an opinion that Whitney is NHL ready. It is far from a fact. Playing well in one league means little (hello Mr.Slaney, Ferraro brothers, countless other quality AHL talent).
Until Whitney proves that he can play in the NHL and not look lost, then he hasn't proved that he is NHL ready. He just proved that he did well in the AHL against AHL talent.

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Old
06-11-2004, 10:48 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stardog
Yep I have seen Whitney play. Quite a bit in fact. In college and in WBS.
Your opinion is that he is NHL ready. How can you tell against AHL talent?

My opinion is that parts of his game are worthy of the NHL, while other parts need quite a bit of work before they are NHL ready.

Just because he played well offensivley in the AHL does not make him ready for the NHL.
IMO the speed of the game will burn him defensivley at this level and there is no need to rush him into the lineup.

As for the trade idea, it could turn out to be Whitney for nothing. It could also turn out to be Whitney for 3 players better than him. There is no way of knowing how good Whitney will be in the NHL, just as much as there is no way of knowing who those three picks are and what type of careers they will have eventually.

But I must add, it is only an opinion that Whitney is NHL ready. It is far from a fact. Playing well in one league means little (hello Mr.Slaney, Ferraro brothers, countless other quality AHL talent).
Until Whitney proves that he can play in the NHL and not look lost, then he hasn't proved that he is NHL ready. He just proved that he did well in the AHL against AHL talent.
Star Dog, I know you better than that, you always make a good point. Please don't make it sound like the above AHL jabronies are the same as Ryan Whitney, they are not.

My point is, he did well in college, and in the AHL playoffs. I'm not saying he will be an all star next year. What I am saying is he could play for the Pens next year and do well. If he does play for WBS, no big deal, He'll be in the NHL the year after for good.

This guy is a keeper, he has the tools, and has proved it, why trade him for unknowns.


Last edited by Mister Hockey: 06-12-2004 at 10:15 AM.
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Old
06-11-2004, 11:50 PM
  #39
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There is no point in talking to Capman, BIGTRAIN, Dino... individually as they are most likely all the same guy, as it seems that whenever one needs backup the other just mysteriously appears.

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06-12-2004, 11:47 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. kØUkLØs
Get Help please. For you're own sake.
I don't think you understand sarcasm.
The Whitney offer was as dumb. That's the meaning of the post. It explains how stupid the Whitney offer was. Of coarse I wouldn't offer that. Read man. It helps before you pass judgement.

By the way capman, Malkin is very VERY close to Ovechkin, so don't over defend your prospect. Some GMs actually admitted prefering Malkin.

Next thing you know, Leonsis will as to trade him.
BS.

Pittsburgh HYPE.

Please show me an article from somewhere other than Pittsburgh that shows ANY GM's "prefering" Malkin.

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Old
06-12-2004, 01:04 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridley Simon
BS.

Pittsburgh HYPE.

Please show me an article from somewhere other than Pittsburgh that shows ANY GM's "prefering" Malkin.
Didn't The Hockey News say some scouts liked Malkin more than Ovechkin? Not quite sure, although, I think I did read it somewhere.

Redline said it too, didn't they?

While it isn't by any means a huge majority of people, very few do.

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06-12-2004, 01:53 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PensFan68
Didn't The Hockey News say some scouts liked Malkin more than Ovechkin? Not quite sure, although, I think I did read it somewhere.

Redline said it too, didn't they?

While it isn't by any means a huge majority of people, very few do.
There was an article in one of the Pittsburgh papers that talked about how good Malkin was and referenced some "scouts" that thought he might end up being better than Ovechkin in the long run. I think all of the draft publications of been playing the same article to a varying degree, as I have yet to see any new material on it.

With the way this board works, that little article has turned into "some GM's actually admitted prefering Malkin" as of now and will probably grow to "the consensus amongst draft experts is Malkin should be #1" by draft weekend.

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Old
06-12-2004, 02:17 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridley Simon
There was an article in one of the Pittsburgh papers that talked about how good Malkin was and referenced some "scouts" that thought he might end up being better than Ovechkin in the long run.
Just to make sure you know, it was reported in Pittsburgh, but all the quotes came from Redline. No local writer, to my knowledge, made a statement like that. They did, however, quote a guy from Redline in an article.

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Old
06-12-2004, 03:50 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan
Don't overrate those picks. Look back over 10 years and you'll probably find that those picks have less than 33% of turning into a decent NHL player. So if the Pens get one usable player they would be OK, and I think that Whitney is going to be a LOT better than just a useable player.
I understand if you don't feel you're capable of making quality selections. You could trade with Ottawa. They have been awesome with later picks!

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Old
06-12-2004, 04:17 PM
  #45
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No one from a Pittsburgh paper has said anything close to Malkin being better than Ovechkin, all the quotes come from places like The Hockey News and Redline.

They're not exactly Pittsburgh biased there...jeez.

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Old
06-12-2004, 08:17 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Conservative
Can someone ban him please? PLEASE. He offers nothing to the discussion, is constantly rude and has no sense of trade value.
Hey if I am rude then what are you ?? I forgot more hockey than you will know . Good trade benfit both sides and most posted here are one sided and totally new would happen unless a general manager of a team was brain dead. Want someone banned leave yourself .

When and if you ever learn that trades a made between team that match up ( IE when both teams have what the over one wants ) then and only then will a trade be considered . For example team A needs a #1 goalie and has the defenseman to trade to team B that has the goalie and needs the defenseman. Because each has what the other one wants a trade become possible .

So you want to make trade proposals you must consider what you want and have to give and find a team that has what you want and wants what you have . Anything else is just blabber and homer wishfull thinking.

Anyone wanting Ovechkin will not get him for garbage,because washington wants and needs him on their team to sell tickets and bring attenion to the team. His value is far greater to washington than any other team and for that reason alone he will cost a kings ransom to aquire. So stop with the junk trades prospals until you understand that value to you is not the same to others and to have a trade both sides needs must be met or no trade.

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06-13-2004, 01:53 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capman29
Hey if I am rude then what are you ?? I forgot more hockey than you will know . Good trade benfit both sides and most posted here are one sided and totally new would happen unless a general manager of a team was brain dead. Want someone banned leave yourself .

When and if you ever learn that trades a made between team that match up ( IE when both teams have what the over one wants ) then and only then will a trade be considered . For example team A needs a #1 goalie and has the defenseman to trade to team B that has the goalie and needs the defenseman. Because each has what the other one wants a trade become possible .

Okay, go ahead and make a trade proposal. You're the funniest poster on these boards, and its all unintentional.

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Old
06-13-2004, 03:59 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Hockey
Star Dog, I know you better than that, you always make a good point. Please don't make it sound like the above AHL jabronies are the same as Ryan Whitney, they are not.

My point is, he did well in college, and in the AHL playoffs. I'm not saying he will be an all star next year. What I am saying is he could play for the Pens next year and do well. If he does play for WBS, no big deal, He'll be in the NHL the year after for good.

This guy is a keeper, he has the tools, and has proved it, why trade him for unknowns.
Usually I do make a good point. Or I try to.I made one with this post as well but you didnt seem to get the one I was making. Nowhere did i say that Whitney was the caliber of player that these "jabronies" were. However, since you mentioned it, I will say that Slaney and one of the Ferraro's were first round picks and highly thought of at the stage of thier career's that Whitney was. Perhaps not AS much, but the point remains the same regardless of degree.
Nowhere did I suggest that he is of the same caliber of player that these guys were. Yet few thought they would be flops at that point in thier careers as well.
The point that I was TRYING to make, and thought was obvious, was that AHL success does NOT neccesarily translate to NHL success.
To say he is NHL ready because he performed well in under 20 career pro games in the AHL is an erronious, misleading statement.
He hasn't "prooven" anything other than he did well in a limited amount of AHL games.
To say that is proof that he is "ready for the NHL" is simply far from proof in itself. Thus the mention of guys who were thought to have "proven" themselves at one level yet never able to do so at another.
Let his career unfold before you attempt to say what will become of it. He is an excellent prospect. An excellent one. And that is all he is as of right now. He is no more of a certainty to make the NHL than he was before the AHL playoffs.
He has alot to work on in his game before anyone can say he is NHL ready. He should also spend some time in the NHL before we can get an accurate barometer of whether he is NHL ready or not.
Slaney, Ferraro etc is not a comparison of the player, but of the situations.
It is both a good and valid point. I am surprised that you didnt see the coorilation.

You mentioned that he COULD play for the Pens next year and do well. Certainly, he COULD, but that is not a certainty, only a possibility at this point. One which success in the AHL does not gauge accuratley.


Last edited by stardog: 06-13-2004 at 05:59 AM.
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Old
06-13-2004, 04:03 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwOOsh
There is no point in talking to Capman, BIGTRAIN, Dino... individually as they are most likely all the same guy, as it seems that whenever one needs backup the other just mysteriously appears.
Oh they are definatley the same guy. I have thought that since I saw him (all 3) post. They stick up for eachother like you mentioned, all have the same VERY "off" P.O.V. and same posting styles. I think everyone pretty much knows they are one and the same, though I am glad you mentioned it.

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06-13-2004, 04:16 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridley Simon
There was an article in one of the Pittsburgh papers that talked about how good Malkin was and referenced some "scouts" that thought he might end up being better than Ovechkin in the long run. I think all of the draft publications of been playing the same article to a varying degree, as I have yet to see any new material on it.

With the way this board works, that little article has turned into "some GM's actually admitted prefering Malkin" as of now and will probably grow to "the consensus amongst draft experts is Malkin should be #1" by draft weekend.
Just as you asked for an article outside of a Pittsburgh paper for proof, I will ask for your proof that the articles are playing off of the same paper.
You asked for other publications who have scouts which said that, insinuating that it was based on a Pittsburgh bias, and when given the proof that you asked for, instead admitting that you may have been wrong, you instead question the validity of respected hockey publications.

For the record, I do NOT think EM is close to AO as some scouts seem to think (even ones outside of Pitt if you can believe that). I simply think that it is kind of bogus to ask for proof, have it given to you, and then say that it is playing of the same bias Pitt article with no proof of that what so ever.

Could it be that perhaps some scouts seem to think this may be the case? The way you make it out to be is that the Pitt hockey media is actually respected (which they are not) and that they carry this huge weight in the hockey world (which they do not). Enough weight that the entire rest of the hockey community takes thier word for it instead of, ohhh...ya know...reaserching thier own articles for themselves.
It was said by scouts. Scouts which have nothing to do with either the story in Pittsburgh or the orginization in Pittsburgh.They may be wrong. Who cares. Get over it and face the facts that this is no bias by any scout or fueled by any newspaper. It is based on these people having seen him play and reporting thier findings as they see them. It is an opinion based on thier work which they are well payed to do.
Why can't you just admit that you may have been wrong and that certain professionals hold an equal opinion of an article that was written by a local hockey writer in Pittsburgh? It is a much more plausible theory than two respected publications are basing thier work on a local nobody.


Last edited by stardog: 06-13-2004 at 06:05 AM.
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