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Jeff Finger (TOR) -- Cleared

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Old
10-12-2010, 10:40 PM
  #101
leafmon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brevard View Post
I don't get you guys sometimes. Yes a few good games but Tim effing Brent is not a serious consideration for NHL talent. ,,, The Devils are over a barrel the move would cost pretty much nothing (like maybe Brent himself)

From New Jersey = Zubrus and a 2nd
From Toronto = Brent

Gives the Devils the cap help they need.
Gives the Leafs - the ideal guy to play 1st, 2nd or 3rd line center.
- A true stand up pro capable of playing against the oppositions best (He does in NJ so his offensive stats suffer)
- Keeps the pressure off of the kids (Boz, Grabo and eventually Kadri)
- Also providing and excellent on ice example for them not unlike Weight's role on the Island with Tavares.

It always amazes me the Leaf fans point to stats to show how great their players are (6 top 4 D-men, Grabo better than Zubrus, ...) Yet your team is near the bottom of the league. There is more to hockey than offense. You have to keep the puck out of your net as well. And you don't just throw a bunch of kids on the ice and claim a youth movement. You need to pput guys around them to show them the ropes.
You leave out a couple of very important parts like:
=it is a new year ,much different team and you'll have to forgive us if we just don't jump on the first meh guy who is overpaid for what he does and becomes a cap problem for the next few years. We are just getting rid of our last cap problem.

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Old
10-12-2010, 10:53 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Darylman View Post
In fairness, Finger is actually a pretty good defenseman.
Not really. Mediocre to barely adequate is the range that he has been in 95% of the time with the Leafs.

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Old
10-12-2010, 11:00 PM
  #103
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10-12-2010, 11:03 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Shaun_W_W View Post
NJ traded Matt Halischuk and a 2nd for Arnott so clearly they value him, why the hell would they trade him a couple games into the season and add a 2nd round pick for a player that cannot make the top 12 of a team that was 29th last year.
And may I add any GM that in the span of 6 months makes trades to the net change equal to two 2nd round picks and Matt Halishuck for John Mitchell should be fired immediately regardless of anything else.

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10-13-2010, 11:25 AM
  #105
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Amazingly, Finger cleared waivers.

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10-13-2010, 11:54 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
Wow they are 2-0 hand them the cup. Zubrus > Mikhail Grabovski plan and simple
Quote:
Originally Posted by embracedbias View Post
2009/10
Zubrus: 16:28 TOI/game (1:57 on the PP)
Grabovski: 16:47 TOI/game (2:34 on the PP)

2008/09
Zubrus: 15:15 TOI/game (2:04 on the PP)
Grabovski: 16:13 TOI/game (2:13 on the PP)

Might want to check the facts next time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brevard View Post
I don't get you guys sometimes. Yes a few good games but Tim effing Brent is not a serious consideration for NHL talent. ,,, The Devils are over a barrel the move would cost pretty much nothing (like maybe Brent himself)

From New Jersey = Zubrus and a 2nd
From Toronto = Brent

Gives the Devils the cap help they need.
Gives the Leafs - the ideal guy to play 1st, 2nd or 3rd line center.
- A true stand up pro capable of playing against the oppositions best (He does in NJ so his offensive stats suffer)
- Keeps the pressure off of the kids (Boz, Grabo and eventually Kadri)
- Also providing and excellent on ice example for them not unlike Weight's role on the Island with Tavares.

It always amazes me the Leaf fans point to stats to show how great their players are (6 top 4 D-men, Grabo better than Zubrus, ...) Yet your team is near the bottom of the league. There is more to hockey than offense. You have to keep the puck out of your net as well. And you don't just throw a bunch of kids on the ice and claim a youth movement. You need to pput guys around them to show them the ropes.


I love when people have no clue or consideration for team needs but still post as if they know better then the people that watch it every day.

Once again, its not about who is the better player....its about who fills an organizational need.

We need young top 6 forwards. Not overpaid 3rd liners or 35 year old impending UFA`s who would go to waste in Toronto or die of old age before the team competes.

Again, we have no need for them. Leafs acquiring Langs or Zubrus would make as much sense as the Devils acquiring J.S Giguere.

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Old
10-13-2010, 12:00 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brevard View Post
I don't get you guys sometimes. Yes a few good games but Tim effing Brent is not a serious consideration for NHL talent. ,,, The Devils are over a barrel the move would cost pretty much nothing (like maybe Brent himself)

From New Jersey = Zubrus and a 2nd
From Toronto = Brent

Gives the Devils the cap help they need.
Gives the Leafs - the ideal guy to play 1st, 2nd or 3rd line center.
- A true stand up pro capable of playing against the oppositions best (He does in NJ so his offensive stats suffer)
- Keeps the pressure off of the kids (Boz, Grabo and eventually Kadri)
- Also providing and excellent on ice example for them not unlike Weight's role on the Island with Tavares.

It always amazes me the Leaf fans point to stats to show how great their players are (6 top 4 D-men, Grabo better than Zubrus, ...) Yet your team is near the bottom of the league. There is more to hockey than offense. You have to keep the puck out of your net as well. And you don't just throw a bunch of kids on the ice and claim a youth movement. You need to pput guys around them to show them the ropes.
Thanks for the concern, but the Leafs have been one of the best defensive teams in hockey since Feb 1 this year - the day after they dumped Toskala.

I like Zubrus fine but the Leafs certainly don't need to be wasting $3.5m on an aging 3rd line centre for the next few years, not when they have a succession of young centre talent to battle over that job for peanuts with Kadri, Hanson, Mitchell, and Brent.

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Old
10-13-2010, 12:08 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
Thanks for the concern, but the Leafs have been one of the best defensive teams in hockey since Feb 1 this year - the day after they dumped Toskala.

I like Zubrus fine but the Leafs certainly don't need to be wasting $3.5m on an aging 3rd line centre for the next few years, not when they have a succession of young centre talent to battle over that job for peanuts with Kadri, Hanson, Mitchell, and Brent.
This is what I don`t understand. Other fans seem to think this team is the same as last year.

Yes, the team was 29th last year. They had the worst start in franchise history and dug themself into a hole which they never got out of. January 31st removed a lot of the problem the team was having and from that point, were the 7th best in the East. No way this team was as bad as the standings may suggest.

Full season of a healthy and in shape Kessel....our first number 1 goalie since Eddy and arguably the most solid 6 man defense unit in the league. I would bet my left nut, the Leafs surprise a lot of people this year and throw it in the face of their haters.

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Old
10-13-2010, 12:29 PM
  #109
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was there ever an explanation to why finger got such a large contract? i vaguely remember him getting that and 90% of the people on the boards never heard of the guy?

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Old
10-13-2010, 12:36 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Waltah View Post
was there ever an explanation to why finger got such a large contract? i vaguely remember him getting that and 90% of the people on the boards never heard of the guy?
2 theorys:

Fletcher mixed him up with Kurt Sauer(not that he deserved that coin either)

Another theory is his agent asked for 4 years, 3.5m for the length, Fletch thought he meant per year.

Neither will ever be proven....But I strongly believe some sort of misunderstanding took place......Something doesn`t add up.

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Old
10-13-2010, 12:50 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
2 theorys:

Fletcher mixed him up with Kurt Sauer(not that he deserved that coin either)

Another theory is his agent asked for 4 years, 3.5m for the length, Fletch thought he meant per year.

Neither will ever be proven....But I strongly believe some sort of misunderstanding took place......Something doesn`t add up.
that's absolutely crazy. thanks for the heads up, i just cant imagine that big of an eff up.

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Old
10-13-2010, 12:56 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
2 theorys:

Fletcher mixed him up with Kurt Sauer(not that he deserved that coin either)

Another theory is his agent asked for 4 years, 3.5m for the length, Fletch thought he meant per year.

Neither will ever be proven....But I strongly believe some sort of misunderstanding took place......Something doesn`t add up.
Neither of those "theories" make any sense at all but neither does signing Finger to that kind of money. There was likely some bidding war and Fletcher figured Finger had the potential to meet/exceed the performance of a $3.5M dman.

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10-13-2010, 01:17 PM
  #113
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So here's an interesting question: if he was assigned and put on re-entry, would anyone even take him at half price?

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Old
10-13-2010, 01:37 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
2 theorys:

Fletcher mixed him up with Kurt Sauer(not that he deserved that coin either)

Another theory is his agent asked for 4 years, 3.5m for the length, Fletch thought he meant per year.

Neither will ever be proven....But I strongly believe some sort of misunderstanding took place......Something doesn`t add up.
Neither of those 2 theories are remotely close to the truth.

Finger was one of the few defensive dmen available that summer and teams got carried away. It wasn't the Leafs offering 3.5M compared to other teams at 1M. There were other teams in the 3ish/year range.

How did he get that much? GMs thought he was on an upswing and would be a solid #3 defensive dman. Obviously he went the other way.

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10-13-2010, 01:49 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubey View Post
Neither of those "theories" make any sense at all but neither does signing Finger to that kind of money. There was likely some bidding war and Fletcher figured Finger had the potential to meet/exceed the performance of a $3.5M dman.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hatterson View Post
Neither of those 2 theories are remotely close to the truth.

Finger was one of the few defensive dmen available that summer and teams got carried away. It wasn't the Leafs offering 3.5M compared to other teams at 1M. There were other teams in the 3ish/year range.

How did he get that much? GMs thought he was on an upswing and would be a solid #3 defensive dman. Obviously he went the other way.
I never said they were the truth, my last sentence of the post was stating we'll never know what really happened, but something didn't make sense.

Personally, I would believe those theorys before I could believe that Cliff thought he would be getting what he paid for.

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Old
10-13-2010, 02:04 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by hatterson View Post
Neither of those 2 theories are remotely close to the truth.

Finger was one of the few defensive dmen available that summer and teams got carried away. It wasn't the Leafs offering 3.5M compared to other teams at 1M. There were other teams in the 3ish/year range.

How did he get that much? GMs thought he was on an upswing and would be a solid #3 defensive dman. Obviously he went the other way.
The first one makes sense when you consider the things that were said by management about Finger that were completely false. What they claimed about Finger was actually true of Sauer.

Jul 17, 09:24 AM | Hype this story!

Ever since the Jeff Finger signing became public, I think me and most of the hockey world had the same reaction: What?? How can the Leafs sign a 28-year-old rookie defenceman to a 4 year, $14M contract when he was a healthy scratch for half of Colorado’s playoff games last year?

Then, my friend Sarah sent me a couple of links that say that the Leafs may have signed the wrong player. Maybe they meant to sign Kurt Sauer instead of Jeff Finger.

Just when I thought things couldn’t get any worse for Toronto…

Daniel Tolensky of hockeybuzz.com was confused about the signing when he heard Cliff Fletcher and Ron Wilson’s rationale:

“A lot of people in Toronto are asking me, ‘Who the hell is Jeff Finger?’ simply because they haven’t seen him play. But, [former Colorado coach] Joel Quennville told me he was one of the five best defensemen in the Western Conference last year. He played against the best players on every other team. [Leafs’ coach] Ron Wilson told me he was always on the ice in San Jose games against Joe Thornton. Same thing with Jarome Iginla in Calgary, or the Sedin twins [Henrik and Daniel] in Vancouver. Quennville said [Finger] was his best defenseman in the last half of the year.” – Cliff Fletcher

“I’m not BS-ing. He was the most improved defencemen at the end of the year in the Western Conference. He averaged almost 20 minutes [for the season], and in the first 30 games he didn’t play more than 10 in a game.” – Ron Wilson

Tolensky did a little investigating to see whether there was any truth to these quotes. First, he disproved Wilson’s idea that Finger didn’t play more than 10 minutes a game in the first 30 games of the season. In fact, he averaged 18.37 minutes a game during this time, and was under 14 minutes only twice (12:23 and 11:19).

I would say that was missing the mark by a lot, Ron Wilson. I wonder what you would’ve said if you were ‘BS-ing’.

Next, Tolensky compared Finger and Sauer’s 5-on-5 ice time against Thornton, Iginla, Daniel Sedin, and Gaborik. In each case, Kurt Sauer clearly had more ice time in a shut down role:

JOE THORNTON
Jeff Finger: 2.95 min/game (18.40% of JT’s ice time)
Kurt Sauer: 7.47 min/game (49.70%)

JAROME IGINLA
Jeff Finger: 3.67 min/game (23.50% of JI’s ice time)
Kurt Sauer: 9.53 min/game (60.20%)

DANIEL SEDIN
Jeff Finger: 3.2 min/game (24.60% of DS’s ice time)
Kurt Sauer: 7.91 min/game (57.10%)

MARIAN GABORIK
Jeff Finger: 3.37 min/game (18.90% of MG’s ice time)
Kurt Sauer: 11.5 min/game (69%)

There were 17 games in which both Finger and Sauer played against the above 4 players. In those games, Finger was put out against the star players 22.4% of the time, while Sauer played against them 62.3% of the time.

According to Gabriel Desjardins of behindthenet.ca, Sauer’s Quality of Competition was comparable to Kuba, Hamhuis, Bouwmeester, Phillips and Ranger.

Finger? He’s more like Erskine, Janik, Sekera, Michalek, Schubert, Kukkonen and Carle.

Ray Slover of Sporting News also wrote about the topic, and noted that Finger was surprised about Toronto’s offer, saying it was twice the amount he expected. In fact, Kurt Sauer’s contract with Phoenix was more what Finger was looking for: 4 years, $7M.

Given all of this information, is it possible that Toronto signed the wrong player? It certainly looks that way, since it seems as though they were expecting a shutdown defenceman to play against the NHL’s star players. Sauer played that role last year with Colorado, while Finger was a second- or third-pairing defenceman and a powerplay specialist.

In the worst case scenario, Jeff Finger does not live up to the expectations of his contract and he becomes yet another whipping boy in Toronto. The best case scenario is that he turns out to be everything Fletcher and Wilson said he was, and everything no one else can see just yet.

Either way, they still could’ve signed Jeff Finger to a smaller contract and saved themselves a little room under the cap.

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Old
10-13-2010, 02:07 PM
  #117
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Amazingly, Finger cleared waivers.
You forgot the

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10-13-2010, 02:10 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
The first one makes sense when you consider the things that were said by management about Finger that were completely false. What they claimed about Finger was actually true of Sauer.

Jul 17, 09:24 AM | Hype this story!

Ever since the Jeff Finger signing became public, I think me and most of the hockey world had the same reaction: What?? How can the Leafs sign a 28-year-old rookie defenceman to a 4 year, $14M contract when he was a healthy scratch for half of Colorado’s playoff games last year?

Then, my friend Sarah sent me a couple of links that say that the Leafs may have signed the wrong player. Maybe they meant to sign Kurt Sauer instead of Jeff Finger.

Just when I thought things couldn’t get any worse for Toronto…

Daniel Tolensky of hockeybuzz.com was confused about the signing when he heard Cliff Fletcher and Ron Wilson’s rationale:

“A lot of people in Toronto are asking me, ‘Who the hell is Jeff Finger?’ simply because they haven’t seen him play. But, [former Colorado coach] Joel Quennville told me he was one of the five best defensemen in the Western Conference last year. He played against the best players on every other team. [Leafs’ coach] Ron Wilson told me he was always on the ice in San Jose games against Joe Thornton. Same thing with Jarome Iginla in Calgary, or the Sedin twins [Henrik and Daniel] in Vancouver. Quennville said [Finger] was his best defenseman in the last half of the year.” – Cliff Fletcher

“I’m not BS-ing. He was the most improved defencemen at the end of the year in the Western Conference. He averaged almost 20 minutes [for the season], and in the first 30 games he didn’t play more than 10 in a game.” – Ron Wilson

Tolensky did a little investigating to see whether there was any truth to these quotes. First, he disproved Wilson’s idea that Finger didn’t play more than 10 minutes a game in the first 30 games of the season. In fact, he averaged 18.37 minutes a game during this time, and was under 14 minutes only twice (12:23 and 11:19).

I would say that was missing the mark by a lot, Ron Wilson. I wonder what you would’ve said if you were ‘BS-ing’.

Next, Tolensky compared Finger and Sauer’s 5-on-5 ice time against Thornton, Iginla, Daniel Sedin, and Gaborik. In each case, Kurt Sauer clearly had more ice time in a shut down role:

JOE THORNTON
Jeff Finger: 2.95 min/game (18.40% of JT’s ice time)
Kurt Sauer: 7.47 min/game (49.70%)

JAROME IGINLA
Jeff Finger: 3.67 min/game (23.50% of JI’s ice time)
Kurt Sauer: 9.53 min/game (60.20%)

DANIEL SEDIN
Jeff Finger: 3.2 min/game (24.60% of DS’s ice time)
Kurt Sauer: 7.91 min/game (57.10%)

MARIAN GABORIK
Jeff Finger: 3.37 min/game (18.90% of MG’s ice time)
Kurt Sauer: 11.5 min/game (69%)

There were 17 games in which both Finger and Sauer played against the above 4 players. In those games, Finger was put out against the star players 22.4% of the time, while Sauer played against them 62.3% of the time.

According to Gabriel Desjardins of behindthenet.ca, Sauer’s Quality of Competition was comparable to Kuba, Hamhuis, Bouwmeester, Phillips and Ranger.

Finger? He’s more like Erskine, Janik, Sekera, Michalek, Schubert, Kukkonen and Carle.

Ray Slover of Sporting News also wrote about the topic, and noted that Finger was surprised about Toronto’s offer, saying it was twice the amount he expected. In fact, Kurt Sauer’s contract with Phoenix was more what Finger was looking for: 4 years, $7M.

Given all of this information, is it possible that Toronto signed the wrong player? It certainly looks that way, since it seems as though they were expecting a shutdown defenceman to play against the NHL’s star players. Sauer played that role last year with Colorado, while Finger was a second- or third-pairing defenceman and a powerplay specialist.

In the worst case scenario, Jeff Finger does not live up to the expectations of his contract and he becomes yet another whipping boy in Toronto. The best case scenario is that he turns out to be everything Fletcher and Wilson said he was, and everything no one else can see just yet.

Either way, they still could’ve signed Jeff Finger to a smaller contract and saved themselves a little room under the cap.
Evidence!

Thanks brah, I knew I read that somewhere, just couldn't remember where.

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Old
10-13-2010, 03:23 PM
  #119
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yeah, I think it was a **** up, not a bidding war. of course fletcher cant comment on it because it'd embarrass both himself and finger

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10-13-2010, 05:28 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
[Leafs’ coach] Ron Wilson told me he was always on the ice in San Jose games against Joe Thornton. Same thing with Jarome Iginla in Calgary, or the Sedin twins [Henrik and Daniel] in Vancouver.
Trying to get autographs?

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10-13-2010, 06:12 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by OneMoreAstronaut View Post
So here's an interesting question: if he was assigned and put on re-entry, would anyone even take him at half price?
Ducks might consider it.

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10-13-2010, 06:13 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by OneMoreAstronaut View Post
So here's an interesting question: if he was assigned and put on re-entry, would anyone even take him at half price?
Doesn't make sense for the Leafs, only way he gets called up is on emergency recall so he doesn't need to go through waivers

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10-13-2010, 07:04 PM
  #123
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shocker....

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