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True or False - Lecavalier rumour in the last years

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Old
10-13-2010, 03:25 PM
  #26
smon
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Originally Posted by Frogurt View Post
Not silly. The Habs don't trade for Gomez if they get Lecavalier.

They would have obviously acquired another centre via trade or free agency, maybe they would have re-signed Koivu, but Gomez wouldn't be on this team if that trade went through.
Absolutely silly. It doesn't mean Montreal traded Gomez and Pyatt with those players. Sure, they then would have no need to get Gomez and Pyatt, true and so they would not have acquired. But you can't just add what potentially could have happened into the trade. If you are at all coherent then you must think we should add McDonagh and Valentenko as being part of that trade, too, in the other direction. Perhaps with getting Lecavalier and moving Plekanec they would have kept Koivu... therefore, by your logic we should add Koivu as a potential return to Montreal in that trade. Oh, and you can't include the cost of Higgins then since Gomez is in there. Ridiculous, let's just extend the trade and keep going with all of the possible scenarios.

You have to evaluate the trade on its merits, not whether other players came in after that in lieu of Lecavalier or not or vice versa.

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Old
10-13-2010, 03:44 PM
  #27
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I heard it was:

To Tampa Bay:

P.K. Subban + Christopher Higgins + Josh Gorges + Tomas Plekanec + 1st round draft pick in 2009 (Louis Leblanc)

To Montreal:

Vincent Lecavalier

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Old
10-13-2010, 03:48 PM
  #28
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I wonder how the trade would have changed if Mike Komisarek was involved in the deal.

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Old
10-13-2010, 03:55 PM
  #29
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Our team today could have looked like:

Cammalleri - Lecavalier - Kostitsyn
Pouliot - Koivu - Gionta
Moen - Boyd - Lapierre
Darche - Halpern - White

Markov - Spacek
Hamrlik - Subban
Gill - Gorges

Halak
Auld

If the draft deal went through. And that's even assuming Gionta would have signed with us.

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Old
10-13-2010, 04:13 PM
  #30
Bill McNeal
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Originally Posted by smon View Post
Absolutely silly. It doesn't mean Montreal traded Gomez and Pyatt with those players. Sure, they then would have no need to get Gomez and Pyatt, true and so they would not have acquired. But you can't just add what potentially could have happened into the trade. If you are at all coherent then you must think we should add McDonagh and Valentenko as being part of that trade, too, in the other direction. Perhaps with getting Lecavalier and moving Plekanec they would have kept Koivu... therefore, by your logic we should add Koivu as a potential return to Montreal in that trade. Oh, and you can't include the cost of Higgins then since Gomez is in there. Ridiculous, let's just extend the trade and keep going with all of the possible scenarios.

You have to evaluate the trade on its merits, not whether other players came in after that in lieu of Lecavalier or not or vice versa.
The idea is to look at how the Lecavalier trade would have affected the makeup of the team. I don't care if package XYZ is a fair trade for Lecavalier by itself, I want to know all the ramifications of the deal. And yes, you could go on forever linking one hypothetical move to another, but these two are so clearly connected it would be foolish not to analyze that potential trade in context.

If this deal goes through not only does it weaken our prospect pool (and yes, that accounts for McDonaugh and Valentenko remaining here) and our D, it also leaves the team in the unenviable position of finding center X that results in Gomez+Plekanec = Lecavalier+X.

Considering the point of the trade was to enhance our depth at center and it could have arguably made it worse, it makes perfect sense to involve Gomez in the analysis.

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Old
10-13-2010, 04:25 PM
  #31
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way too much to give. I never understood why all these players were involved, the Habs were doing them a big favor in taking that white elephant of a contract.
Luckily Gary Bettman blocked the trade

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Old
10-13-2010, 04:34 PM
  #32
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bad faith dude. you're of very bad faith.

granted Gomez is "overpaid"... given that his contract is top 5 in the league and he's not top 5... however, he IS a legit top line center and IS making a difference and IS a very complete player and an awesome playmaker. is ability to go from end to end of the rink is almost unsurpassed in the league. Kovalev used to dangle it and maybe better, but to Kovy's difference, Gomez is very unselfish and doesn't try to make the play of the week.
I cannot list 10 centers I'd rather have over Gomer.
Uh... seriously?

He's not good enough to be our first line center but you can't find 10 better centers in the entire league?

Call me crazy, but I'd rather have Henrik Sedin, Sidney Crosby, Nicklas Backstrom, Steven Stamkos, Brad Richards, Joe Thornton, Anze Kopitar, Paul Stastny, Evgeni Malkin, Ryan Kesler, Mikko Koivu, Eric Staal, Pavel Datsyuk, Tomas Plekanec, Vincent Lecavalier, Derek Roy, Ryan Getzlaf, Jonathan Toews, Travis Zajac, Antoine Vermette, Mike Richards, Jeff Carter, Stephen Weiss, Jason Spezza and likely a few others. That makes at least 24.

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Old
10-13-2010, 04:42 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Not The One View Post
Antoine Vermette, Stephen Weiss
I'll allow the others due to argument reasons (barely with Zajac who is a tad overrated due to his size and playing with Parise), but these two? Come on.

Gomez' passing ability in the NHL is criminally underrated especially since its supported statistically.

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Old
10-13-2010, 04:50 PM
  #34
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Gomez is very unselfish and doesn't try to make the play of the week.
I cannot list 10 centers I'd rather have over Gomer.
Now I'm thinking you have to be trolling me.

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Old
10-13-2010, 05:02 PM
  #35
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I'll allow the others due to argument reasons (barely with Zajac who is a tad overrated due to his size and playing with Parise), but these two? Come on.

Gomez' passing ability in the NHL is criminally underrated especially since its supported statistically.
They make at least 3 million less than Gomez.

Vermette/Weiss + Halak >>> Gomez (for example)

Scott Gomez's salary is going to going to wreck the Canadiens' financial competitivity for the next four years. He's criminally overpaid for what he brings to the team as a second line center.

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Old
10-13-2010, 05:13 PM
  #36
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Thank god we never got Vinny

Following this article :http://www.cyberpresse.ca/sports/hoc...lecavalier.php

Think about it how our team would look like today. Probably no Gomez, and probably no Gionta either, but by looking at the tampa bay lightning, they could have got an hell of a team, with Plekanec being nearly as good as Vinny as second line center, having in defence Gorges,Subban,Kubina,Ohlund,Hedman, and in goaltending...Halak.

Sometime, the best trade you do are the one you dont make and thats the perfect example, because we would not have the same defence at all,but the team who would have a stanley cup contender team would be Tampa.

And i wonder how good our team would be with Vinny in. We would have a better offensive team with Vinny and Cammalleri, but i wonder what our second line would have look.

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Old
10-13-2010, 05:25 PM
  #37
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Lightning fan coming in peace. I lost faith in VL and was hoping for a Plekanac+1st+Subban type deal at one point, but now I'm glad we didn't deal him to you guys. All of the lingering issues of the past are now gone, the Lightning have a coach who can actually coach, excellent ownership with no swirling trade rumors, hes healthy, has linemates who can actually play, the list goes on. Check him out tonight hes a different beast

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Old
10-13-2010, 05:34 PM
  #38
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Agreed, very grateful to not have gotten him. Then again, with him on our team we probably wouldn't have had to deal with Pauline Marois and Pierre Cruz...

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Old
10-13-2010, 05:38 PM
  #39
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We still would have had Gionta, but we might have gotten Cammalleri.

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10-13-2010, 05:57 PM
  #40
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Lecavalier was, and still is in some circles such as CKAC, the most overrated individual in recent memory... I feel like people created a messiah-like character named Vincent Lecavalier that is the second coming of Mario Lemieux, except much better, and will lead effortlessly this team to multiple Stanley cups. We would have been so good with him that we would have won three cups a year for the duration of his contract... And there happens to be a star player, pretty good but nowhere near messiah status, that plays in the league under the name Vincent Lecavalier...

No matter who we would have ended up giving for him, he would have been a disappointment. He is not a PPG player, not top-5 in the league and was already injured at that point. He is pretty good, awesome when he turns it up, but people expected way too much from him. Why can't Montreal media and casual fans, for once, look at the player for what he actually is instead of creating a monster that would have killed him had the trade gone down? Pointless to ask, but I felt like asking anyway.

Let's move forward with Plekanec hitting 70 points again (as much if not more than Lecavalier), Subban joining forces with Markov to give us 40-50 minutes of high quality defense against opposing forces, Gorges watching their back effectively while they are trying to do something offensively and Price give us another 0,920+ save percentage season... Things are better this way.

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Old
10-13-2010, 06:05 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Not The One View Post
They make at least 3 million less than Gomez.
Weiss was once close to 50 assists in his career. Vermette never. Gomez averages it every single season. With him on the team you know your team will score 50 goals that year just because Scott Gomez is good for 50 or close to it. Only one season in his entire career with under 40 assists.

He made that money because he had a track record and Sather overpaid for him on the open market. That doesn't even mention his 53 points in 56 playoff games since the lockout.

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Old
10-13-2010, 06:25 PM
  #42
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Well, if Gainey seriously was open to giving up Subban, Plekanec, Gorges and a 1st rounder to acquire Lecavalier's services..then well, I honestly question his thinking process. I mean, what...the...****...?

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Old
10-13-2010, 06:45 PM
  #43
smon
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Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post
Well, if Gainey seriously was open to giving up Subban, Plekanec, Gorges and a 1st rounder to acquire Lecavalier's services..then well, I honestly question his thinking process. I mean, what...the...****...?
Yeah, that's a fair point. Undoubtedly some of the biggest critics of these proposed trades are people who feel Gainey did a great job retooling the team. So they are essentially crediting him for not being able to do something that he actually wanted to do.

Personally, I think Gainey did a fair job retooling the club in that offseason. But, like him, I would have made the Lecavalier trade at the time over getting Gomez, I won't lie, and in retrospect, none of you know all the ramifications. If the trade happened, perhaps Plekanec does not play as well in Tampa. Maybe Lecavalier returns to form, maybe Montreal still signs Cammalleri and Gionta. Who knows?

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Old
10-13-2010, 06:46 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post
Well, if Gainey seriously was open to giving up Subban, Plekanec, Gorges and a 1st rounder to acquire Lecavalier's services..then well, I honestly question his thinking process. I mean, what...the...****...?
The deal was real! Gotta remember at the time Subban was really raw & there were no guarantees. Good thing it got canned on Tampa's side, we got lucky.

I've always liked LeCavalier, but never at that awful contract.

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Old
10-13-2010, 07:37 PM
  #45
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Demers did suggest Price + Markov for Lecavalier once.
Demers has always had a love thing for Lecavalier.

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Old
10-14-2010, 09:15 AM
  #46
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Lecavalier probably was the one that nixed the trade. His no-trade clause hadn't kicked in yet but the management of the Lightning most likely asked him if he wanted to go and I'd bet that he said no. He is like Briere and would crack under the pressure in Montreal. If he really wanted to go to Montreal he could have waited 1 year and signed as a free agent. He doesn't want to play in Montreal and he won't play in Montreal.

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Old
10-14-2010, 11:17 AM
  #47
WestIslander
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Our team today could have looked like:

Cammalleri - Lecavalier - Kostitsyn
Pouliot - Koivu - Gionta
Moen - Boyd - Lapierre
Darche - Halpern - White

Markov - Spacek
Hamrlik - Subban
Gill - Gorges

Halak
Auld

If the draft deal went through. And that's even assuming Gionta would have signed with us.
Wrong, because if we didn't get Gomez, Cammalleri and Gionta would not have signed here.

After last night and Lecavalier's salary, I would rather have Gomez in Montreal.

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