HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Florida Panthers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Playoffs or lottery pick?

View Poll Results: Playoffs or lottery pick, what do you want?
Playoffs, I agree with Oscar 36 63.16%
Lottery pick... this franchise needs true core players 21 36.84%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-14-2010, 08:19 AM
  #26
pb1300
BLEED RED
 
pb1300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Aiyio, Greece
Country: Greece
Posts: 10,635
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to pb1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acadmus View Post
The lineup blows, but the real question is: are the prospects in the Panthers' system good enough to form a solid core that can contend for the Cup in the future, or do we need to add another marquis player by tanking? i.e. bag the notion of a playoff appearance even if the team proves able to carry it off and just go for the high pick?
They are good enough to get us a 4-7 playoff spot IMO, if most can develop into their abilities. What we need to take us over the top is a true top line forward. The way I see our upcoming Panther team is like this:

Booth - Weiss - _____
Frolik - Bjugstad - Howden
Repik - McFarland - Matthias
Duco - Shore - McArdle

Gudbranson - Kulikov
Robak - Petrovic
Ellerby - Garrison

Markstrom
Salek (if still here)

I think, talent wise, that team above can make the playoffs on a consistent basis. But here is the thing, add a top tier prospect like Couturier, and all of a sudden, the lineup changes. You can have:

Booth - Couturier - Frolik

as the top line. Then you have Weiss, Bjugstad, McFarland, and Matthias as additional centermen, which would give us unbelievable depth down the middle, consisting of speed, size, and skill.

Now what happens if we add Hopkins:

Booth - Weiss/Bjugstad - Hopkins

Now the dynamics of the top line change. We can still use Weiss, who I honestly believe retires a Panther, and as long as he can stay healthy, has years left, or we can go with the bigger, more physical Bjugstad, which would open up the ice for Booth and Hopkins.

See, adding a top tier talent to this current group of "young" vets, and prospects, really adds a new dimension to the team. I think in 3-4 years, when most should be on the team, we will be entering an era where some of the other teams in the league, where they have talented vets on the team, will fade out, giving us an opportunity to make a push. This is why I push for the top pick next summer, because while it may not have that generational player, there are still players that could make a huge difference for us early down the road.

pb1300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-14-2010, 08:26 AM
  #27
CHGoalie27
GWAAARRRRRRR
 
CHGoalie27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SoFLA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,420
vCash: 500
...but even if we get the high pick, we'll pick the wrong guys again anyway!

With a playoff appearance (and the paying fans month in advance that it might happenn) would help our wallet to land someone worth a damn.

Not saying that it's likely, but I'd like to see it....think the Texas Rangers are upset with their first playoff series win in half a century, even though we're all pretty sure they'll lose to the Yanks?

PB, I think that blank needs to be Penner....and I love the non McCabe lineup!

CHGoalie27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-14-2010, 08:37 AM
  #28
pb1300
BLEED RED
 
pb1300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Aiyio, Greece
Country: Greece
Posts: 10,635
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to pb1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHGoalie27 View Post
...but even if we get the high pick, we'll pick the wrong guys again anyway!

With a playoff appearance (and the paying fans month in advance that it might happenn) would help our wallet to land someone worth a damn.

Not saying that it's likely, but I'd like to see it....think the Texas Rangers are upset with their first playoff series win in half a century, even though we're all pretty sure they'll lose to the Yanks?

PB, I think that blank needs to be Penner....and I love the non McCabe lineup!
Going by our last draft, Tallon's first, I think our drafting in the first round has improved. You cannot go wrong with Hopkins or Couturier. Hopkins is a very skilled winger, who can be a big use to us seeing as how our top prospects, aside from Howden, are centers. Saying that though, Couturier adds to that Tallon plan, which is having big, physical centers on his team. I am actually leaning more at Hopkins, just for the fact that he is more of what we need.

Again, making the playoffs this season will hurt us more than it would help us. I guarantee that if they were to get in at #8, they will not make it far. There is just too much parity between our forwards, and most certainly the top half of the Eastern conference alone, let alone the NHL. Yes, the million dollars each home game generates would be nice, but picking 1-2-3 is better than picking in the middle of the first. There is top tier talent available in next summers draft, which is something we need more than just one round of playoffs.

Penner is not what we need. The team our prospects, along with Booth, Weiss, Frolik, etc., compile a team that will be competitive in 2-3 years, which would make no use of Penner. His net play would be a help to us, but by changing the culture of this team, we can get that type of play from our players in the future. Tallon wants a no nonsense, physical team on the ice, and seeing how his teams have played that way in the past, there is no reason to think it would be any different here.


Last edited by Acadmus: 10-14-2010 at 09:12 AM. Reason: offensive
pb1300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-14-2010, 08:51 AM
  #29
RainingRats
Registered User
 
RainingRats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 9,974
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
They are good enough to get us a 4-7 playoff spot IMO, if most can develop into their abilities. What we need to take us over the top is a true top line forward. The way I see our upcoming Panther team is like this:

Booth - Weiss - _____
Frolik - Bjugstad - Howden
Repik - McFarland - Matthias
Duco - Shore - McArdle

Gudbranson - Kulikov
Robak - Petrovic
Ellerby - Garrison

Markstrom
Salek (if still here)

I think, talent wise, that team above can make the playoffs on a consistent basis. But here is the thing, add a top tier prospect like Couturier, and all of a sudden, the lineup changes. You can have:

Booth - Couturier - Frolik

as the top line. Then you have Weiss, Bjugstad, McFarland, and Matthias as additional centermen, which would give us unbelievable depth down the middle, consisting of speed, size, and skill.

Now what happens if we add Hopkins:

Booth - Weiss/Bjugstad - Hopkins

Now the dynamics of the top line change. We can still use Weiss, who I honestly believe retires a Panther, and as long as he can stay healthy, has years left, or we can go with the bigger, more physical Bjugstad, which would open up the ice for Booth and Hopkins.

See, adding a top tier talent to this current group of "young" vets, and prospects, really adds a new dimension to the team. I think in 3-4 years, when most should be on the team, we will be entering an era where some of the other teams in the league, where they have talented vets on the team, will fade out, giving us an opportunity to make a push. This is why I push for the top pick next summer, because while it may not have that generational player, there are still players that could make a huge difference for us early down the road.
I think if you're being very optimistic with our prospects. They're prospects for a reason and maybe 1/3 will be regular nhl'ers. A guy like Shore doesn't work on the fourth, and Howden is more likely to be on the third or fourth line. Also, Jenks should be there as the third or fourth line center. Repik needs to be on the second line. But like I said, this is really optimistic. We're going to get a bunch of prospects in this upcoming draft so they'll hopefully move some guys down or off the lineup.


The D looks really promising, same with goaltending.

RainingRats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-14-2010, 09:01 AM
  #30
pb1300
BLEED RED
 
pb1300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Aiyio, Greece
Country: Greece
Posts: 10,635
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to pb1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
I think if you're being very optimistic with our prospects. They're prospects for a reason and maybe 1/3 will be regular nhl'ers. A guy like Shore doesn't work on the fourth, and Howden is more likely to be on the third or fourth line. Also, Jenks should be there as the third or fourth line center. Repik needs to be on the second line. But like I said, this is really optimistic. We're going to get a bunch of prospects in this upcoming draft so they'll hopefully move some guys down or off the lineup.


The D looks really promising, same with goaltending.
Im not being optimistic at all, just going by what I know, read, saw about the prospects. Howden is already huge for his age, with growing offensive abilities. He still has to develop, but given his abilities, 2nd line wing is not out of the question. He is projected to be a 2nd/3rd line winger. And I actually had Repik on the 2nd line, but I like Howden's size, and strength, better.

Jenks is not going to jump over guys like Bjugstad or McFarland, and while thinking that Weiss is still here, that means he will be at best, the 4th center on the depth chart, even farther down if we were to get Couturier.

Tallon drafted a lot of talent this past summer. Just because some of our previous prospects werent highly touted, that doesnt mean that who we got arent going to be good. Bjugstad, McFarland, and Howden have the upside to be big contributors to this team. Its not optimism that has me going, its just going by what needs Tallon has filled, who the players are, and what can end of happening when they get here.

pb1300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-14-2010, 09:28 AM
  #31
RainingRats
Registered User
 
RainingRats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 9,974
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
Im not being optimistic at all, just going by what I know, read, saw about the prospects. Howden is already huge for his age, with growing offensive abilities. He still has to develop, but given his abilities, 2nd line wing is not out of the question. He is projected to be a 2nd/3rd line winger. And I actually had Repik on the 2nd line, but I like Howden's size, and strength, better.

Jenks is not going to jump over guys like Bjugstad or McFarland, and while thinking that Weiss is still here, that means he will be at best, the 4th center on the depth chart, even farther down if we were to get Couturier.

Tallon drafted a lot of talent this past summer. Just because some of our previous prospects werent highly touted, that doesnt mean that who we got arent going to be good. Bjugstad, McFarland, and Howden have the upside to be big contributors to this team. Its not optimism that has me going, its just going by what needs Tallon has filled, who the players are, and what can end of happening when they get here.
Prospects are prospects for a reason. Only Guds is a sure thing to be on this team. Historically, not a lot of of prospects become NHL regulars, even first round picks. Of the forwards we drafted last draft we'll be lucky if two become regular NHL players. Of course Tallon drafted them because they have potential to be good but statistically, the odds are against us. Go ahead and look at previous drafts and see how many players develop into legit NHL players.

RainingRats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-14-2010, 10:01 AM
  #32
Holy Jokinen
Registered User
 
Holy Jokinen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Tampa/Boca
Country: United States
Posts: 2,818
vCash: 500
Hopefully, we're leading the Conference/Division by a wide margin come Deadline day. Tallon still wants to tank, so we trade all of those pending UFAs for prospects and picks.

We finish the season 8th, make the playoffs, and lose nearly right away (maybe 5 games). Draft time comes, and we have 3 first rounders, 4 seconds, and 3 thirds. One of the first rounders is toronto's first from boston, so we still get a top 3 pick.


Holy Jokinen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-14-2010, 12:31 PM
  #33
CHGoalie27
GWAAARRRRRRR
 
CHGoalie27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SoFLA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
Going by our last draft, Tallon's first, I think our drafting in the first round has improved. You cannot go wrong with Hopkins or Couturier. Hopkins is a very skilled winger, who can be a big use to us seeing as how our top prospects, aside from Howden, are centers. Saying that though, Couturier adds to that Tallon plan, which is having big, physical centers on his team. I am actually leaning more at Hopkins, just for the fact that he is more of what we need.

Again, making the playoffs this season will hurt us more than it would help us. I guarantee that if they were to get in at #8, they will not make it far. There is just too much parity between our forwards, and most certainly the top half of the Eastern conference alone, let alone the NHL. Yes, the million dollars each home game generates would be nice, but picking 1-2-3 is better than picking in the middle of the first. There is top tier talent available in next summers draft, which is something we need more than just one round of playoffs.

Penner is not what we need. The team our prospects, along with Booth, Weiss, Frolik, etc., compile a team that will be competitive in 2-3 years, which would make no use of Penner. His net play would be a help to us, but by changing the culture of this team, we can get that type of play from our players in the future. Tallon wants a no nonsense, physical team on the ice, and seeing how his teams have played that way in the past, there is no reason to think it would be any different here.
We're tanking on purpose...and Pete Rose can't make the baseball hall of fame?? LOL

(something like*)Penner is what every small contender needs. Big brutal, not easily knocked off puck, etc...we, unarguably, need a couple super-heavy monsters with SOME skill...and I'm sick of complaining about it. (Can't stop though until it's fixed)

As far as picks go, we don't necessarily need top pick, we just need to know who the right picks are. Unless the second coming of Crosby and Ovechkin is available next year, we're going to have to build support for Weiss, Booth, and Frolik (who should NOT all be on the same mickey mouse/get crushed line).
Look what ATL did for Evander Kane! We need that here! ...and if we got it last year, (IMO) Horton doesn't ask to go either.
IMO we're really not as far off as people think we are, next year we free up McCabe's contract and probably Vokoun too. Who do we spend on? If they want my STH $$$, they get some size (and USE it).

..and seeing as how it's clear that PDB has no idea of the advantage of having someone anywhere near the net(enforcer or not SHEESH), tanking shouldn't be a problem.

CHGoalie27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-14-2010, 12:47 PM
  #34
CHGoalie27
GWAAARRRRRRR
 
CHGoalie27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SoFLA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,420
vCash: 500
What do the scouts of the Panthers do? Read stats and call it a night?

..and if they do check a player out, what do they consider?
I bring up the Ballard-Garrison thing a lot because it bugs me that no professional hockey team staffer noticed the obvious chemistry...

When they watch these kids, do they watch the prime point getter without noticing how his junior linemates add to the equation?

yknow?

...the two best goalies I have ever seen were drafted 199th and 205th overall...

...top 3 picks of 1979 were Rob Ramage, Perry Turnbull, and Mike Foligno...Mark Messier at 48th...

In conclusion I say we aim for playoffs so we can afford players worth a damn, and look for a coaching/scouting staff that actually knows something more than how to read stats and watch leg movement.

(slight premature)Kudos to whoever was talking Fowler up....shame on the (professional) GMs passing him for AHL depth.

CHGoalie27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-14-2010, 01:23 PM
  #35
Erick
Registered User
 
Erick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Broward, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 11,587
vCash: 500
Give me the playoffs over potential.
Anyone who says otherwise is lying because they know they'd be jumping for joy if the Panthers even got to an 8th seed. I've been waiting...we've been waiting...for a decade.

I don't even get excited with draft picks anymore. Especially with the Panthers, and all the busts they've had over the years in the 1st round. If they weren't busts, they failed to meet draft day expectations.

Erick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-14-2010, 01:32 PM
  #36
pb1300
BLEED RED
 
pb1300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Aiyio, Greece
Country: Greece
Posts: 10,635
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to pb1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHGoalie27 View Post
We're tanking on purpose...and Pete Rose can't make the baseball hall of fame?? LOL

(something like*)Penner is what every small contender needs. Big brutal, not easily knocked off puck, etc...we, unarguably, need a couple super-heavy monsters with SOME skill...and I'm sick of complaining about it. (Can't stop though until it's fixed)

As far as picks go, we don't necessarily need top pick, we just need to know who the right picks are. Unless the second coming of Crosby and Ovechkin is available next year, we're going to have to build support for Weiss, Booth, and Frolik (who should NOT all be on the same mickey mouse/get crushed line).
Look what ATL did for Evander Kane! We need that here! ...and if we got it last year, (IMO) Horton doesn't ask to go either.
IMO we're really not as far off as people think we are, next year we free up McCabe's contract and probably Vokoun too. Who do we spend on? If they want my STH $$$, they get some size (and USE it).

..and seeing as how it's clear that PDB has no idea of the advantage of having someone anywhere near the net(enforcer or not SHEESH), tanking shouldn't be a problem.
So since there could be a Stamkos, Tavares, Kane, Toews, Hall type player available this coming draft, you wouldnt want any of them because they arent "a second coming of Crosby or Ovechkin?" Booth, Weiss, Frolik, etc. would BE the support for a Couturier or Hopkins, not the other way around. In a few years, they would be the top point getters for this team. You cant seem to understand that. Weiss, Frolik, Booth, and the youth that we have a very good secondary scorers, but we lack that true, top line talent, in which Couturier and Hopkins project to be.

This team will NOT go out next summer and spend big bucks on players, its never been that way, so your season ticket threat should just go away. They are going to build through the draft, period. A few trades will happen, and some mid level signings could occur, but IF we were to see a big name free agent, it wouldnt be for another 2-3 years later. Face it, this team will be a talented, yet extremely young team next year, with a couple of vets sprinkled in, signed on 1-2 year deals. Unless of course you just want to forget about a Hopkins or Couturier, come in 10th, and then draft your "AHL depth."

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHGoalie27 View Post
What do the scouts of the Panthers do? Read stats and call it a night?

..and if they do check a player out, what do they consider?
I bring up the Ballard-Garrison thing a lot because it bugs me that no professional hockey team staffer noticed the obvious chemistry...

When they watch these kids, do they watch the prime point getter without noticing how his junior linemates add to the equation?

yknow?

...the two best goalies I have ever seen were drafted 199th and 205th overall...

...top 3 picks of 1979 were Rob Ramage, Perry Turnbull, and Mike Foligno...Mark Messier at 48th...

In conclusion I say we aim for playoffs so we can afford players worth a damn, and look for a coaching/scouting staff that actually knows something more than how to read stats and watch leg movement.

(slight premature)Kudos to whoever was talking Fowler up....shame on the (professional) GMs passing him for AHL depth.
Dude, BALLARD IS NOT THAT GOOD, ESPECIALLY NOT $4+ MILLION GOOD! Ballard was HORRIBLE last year, and if you think that he is good just because he was paired with Garrison, then I dont know what else to say. You really have to explain your lovefest for him, because you obviously see, or dont see for that matter, what no one else does.

pb1300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-14-2010, 01:37 PM
  #37
TimHortons
Gud Night
 
TimHortons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Country: United States
Posts: 1,122
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHGoalie27 View Post
(slight premature)Kudos to whoever was talking Fowler up....shame on the (professional) GMs passing him for AHL depth.
It was me leading up to the draft, the "Prowl for Fowl" campaign. And you're right, its entirely premature. We'll revisit in 5-6 years.

TimHortons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-14-2010, 01:56 PM
  #38
CHGoalie27
GWAAARRRRRRR
 
CHGoalie27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SoFLA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,420
vCash: 500
Easy On Your Ugly Tone Brotha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
So since there could be a Stamkos, Tavares, Kane, Toews, Hall type player available this coming draft, you wouldnt want any of them because they arent "a second coming of Crosby or Ovechkin?" Booth, Weiss, Frolik, etc. would BE the support for a Couturier or Hopkins, not the other way around. In a few years, they would be the top point getters for this team. You cant seem to understand that. Weiss, Frolik, Booth, and the youth that we have a very good secondary scorers, but we lack that true, top line talent, in which Couturier and Hopkins project to be.
Excuuuuuuuuuuuse me for not listing....but you're not perfect either, you forgot sleepy and doc.
No, if there's a (those guys) in the high round who wouldn't take em? My point was more to show that Toews was drafted 3rd of his year and Weiss 4th of his...yet, there's miles between Weiss and those listed.
I don't know much about Couturier or Hopkins and how they'd be with our current core, and until they're actually seen playing with the guys here, neither do you. (That's the pains of chance and choice I guess!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
This team will NOT go out next summer and spend big bucks on players, its never been that way, so your season ticket threat should just go away. They are going to build through the draft, period. A few trades will happen, and some mid level signings could occur, but IF we were to see a big name free agent, it wouldnt be for another 2-3 years later. Face it, this team will be a talented, yet extremely young team next year, with a couple of vets sprinkled in, signed on 1-2 year deals. Unless of course you just want to forget about a Hopkins or Couturier, come in 10th, and then draft your "AHL depth.".
My Investor* threat shouldn't go anywhere, they sell a product and it up to them to make sure their product is worthy of sale.
I do agree with this spot on paragraph, my beef isn't with building through draft, it's how we've been building through the draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
Dude, BALLARD IS NOT THAT GOOD, ESPECIALLY NOT $4+ MILLION GOOD! Ballard was HORRIBLE last year, and if you think that he is good just because he was paired with Garrison, then I dont know what else to say. You really have to explain your lovefest for him, because you obviously see, or dont see for that matter, what no one else does.
WTF is the above? First, I know he had a bad year, I don't recall saying said he did. Wouldn't I be saying he was bad because he WASN'T with Garrison?
The Ballard I saw with Boynton was worth every penny, just as the Ballard that should've been with Garrison would've gave last year a different story.
My lovefest for him has been explained. He's awesome with the right guys, terrible with the wrong guys. Unlike Eminger, Semenov, and McCabe who would be the same no matter who they're with.

Most people against Ballard have been watching his "blind rings" from their tv set, which often DOES NOT show the other players(HIS OPTIONS) on the screen. Do you blame the guy that made a bad pass or the players that don't give the puck carrier a chance? Only those who see it live can tell you WHY he tried to make those passes, and I can often see why he makes some of those what you call bad decisions and disagree...

Either way, enough of the crap like what's bolded.


Last edited by CHGoalie27: 10-14-2010 at 02:02 PM.
CHGoalie27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-14-2010, 02:31 PM
  #39
Markstrom Rules
Sup
 
Markstrom Rules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Country: United States
Posts: 16,053
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
I think we are pretty set as a future playoff team right now. The way the forwards are right now, and in the next couple of years are:

Booth
Weiss
Frolik
Bjugstad
McFarland
Howden
Repik
Matthias
Repik
Dadanov

There are a lot of 2nd line players on the list, which isnt a bad thing. Some might not reach that potential, but they should fill out the roster nicely. What we need is that top tier forward, someone who can be that go to guy, which is why we need Couturier or Hopkins.

The defense is a different story. I think we will have a very good defense in the future, and adding Larsson is more of a plus, rather than a necessity. He is a great Dman prospect, but with guys like Guds, Kuli, Robak, Ellerby, Garisson, and Petrovic, and with the lack of top end talent at forward, we really need to go offensive if we were to land the top pick. It would really be hard to pass up Larsson though. Just imagine our back end being:

Larsson - Guds
Kulikov - Robak
Petrovic - Ellerby/Garisson

Markstrom

I would be fine with the #2 pick in the draft, if that means losing out on Larsson. Reason being is that it would really be between two forwards, and Tallon wouldnt have that option of going with Larsson. We still have to wait and see what goes on with these top prospects this year, as players tend to rise and fall, even though I still think that Larsson, Couturier, and Hopkins will still be top five picks next summer. Maybe MR and J17 can post their thoughts on this.
Larsson, Couturier, and RNH will be top 5 picks, they're just too good to fall any farther at this point. Just like last year at this point, I would've said no way Hall and Seguin fall out of the top 5. They'd have to completely fall apart at this point not to go in the top 5.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo12688 View Post
I think the key this season is to try to get another 1st round pick at the trade deadline. Does Vokoun get us that pick alone?
I don't think so, but we could package some picks together to get a 1st. Like the Isles did last year, they packaged a 2nd and a 4th for a late 1st. Seeing as we could have a ton of 2nds this year, we might be able to get a higher pick than the Isles did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHGoalie27 View Post
...but even if we get the high pick, we'll pick the wrong guys again anyway!

With a playoff appearance (and the paying fans month in advance that it might happenn) would help our wallet to land someone worth a damn.

Not saying that it's likely, but I'd like to see it....think the Texas Rangers are upset with their first playoff series win in half a century, even though we're all pretty sure they'll lose to the Yanks?

PB, I think that blank needs to be Penner....and I love the non McCabe lineup!
So Gudbranson was the wrong guy?

Markstrom Rules is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-14-2010, 02:41 PM
  #40
Erick
Registered User
 
Erick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Broward, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 11,587
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post


So Gudbranson was the wrong guy?
Maybe.

Erick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-14-2010, 02:47 PM
  #41
karnige
Real Life FTL
 
karnige's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Country: Trinidad and Tobago
Posts: 12,229
vCash: 500
As an outsider looking in I really like the Panthers this year. They could definitely challenge for a playoff spot.

karnige is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-14-2010, 02:58 PM
  #42
CHGoalie27
GWAAARRRRRRR
 
CHGoalie27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SoFLA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
So Gudbranson was the wrong guy?
Hard to say without ignorance on my part, he's either not an instant NHLer because he isn't good enough or we just didn't want to shell out a couple extra bucks?

I mean, I hope he's not the wrong guy, I just don't know. All I really have on Guds is what you guys tell me.

I want McCabe to take a trip to the Bermuda Triangle so we can find out.

CHGoalie27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-14-2010, 03:05 PM
  #43
pb1300
BLEED RED
 
pb1300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Aiyio, Greece
Country: Greece
Posts: 10,635
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to pb1300
Quote:
Excuuuuuuuuuuuse me for not listing....but you're not perfect either, you forgot sleepy and doc.
No, if there's a (those guys) in the high round who wouldn't take em? My point was more to show that Toews was drafted 3rd of his year and Weiss 4th of his...yet, there's miles between Weiss and those listed.
I don't know much about Couturier or Hopkins and how they'd be with our current core, and until they're actually seen playing with the guys here, neither do you. (That's the pains of chance and choice I guess!)
Its hockey dude, not Dancing With The Stars. When you add a talent like Toews, Kane, Stamkos, etc., everyone will find ways to work it out. Thats what happens when you add talent to a team. Was Bure not successful when he was here? Did he not create a chemistry with his teammates? This thing about them not playing with our core yet is bogus. Couturier or Hopkins on this team is an INSTANT upgrade, period.

And you want to compare Weiss and Toews because where they were picked, but you completely leave out the fact that these were two completely different drafts, completely different talent at the top. What would you have done in 01? Draft Chistov instead? Or how about Svitov? You pick one thing out of these two drafts that is completely irrelevant, and try to spin it into a poor excuse.

Quote:
My Investor* threat shouldn't go anywhere, they sell a product and it up to them to make sure their product is worthy of sale.
I do agree with this spot on paragraph, my beef isn't with building through draft, it's how we've been building through the draft.
You should have never "invested" without knowing the product then. We arent the Habs, Rangers, Leafs, etc., we dont have the funds that those teams do. The ONLY way to build this team properly, at this time, is via the draft, and smart free agent signings. You cant fault the teams drafting on Tallon. This is his first year, for a completely different team top to bottom, compared to the Hawks. What happened before plays no role in what could happen in the future.


Quote:
WTF is the above? First, I know he had a bad year, I don't recall saying said he did. Wouldn't I be saying he was bad because he WASN'T with Garrison?
The Ballard I saw with Boynton was worth every penny, just as the Ballard that should've been with Garrison would've gave last year a different story.
My lovefest for him has been explained. He's awesome with the right guys, terrible with the wrong guys. Unlike Eminger, Semenov, and McCabe who would be the same no matter who they're with.

Most people against Ballard have been watching his "blind rings" from their tv set, which often DOES NOT show the other players(HIS OPTIONS) on the screen. Do you blame the guy that made a bad pass or the players that don't give the puck carrier a chance? Only those who see it live can tell you WHY he tried to make those passes, and I can often see why he makes some of those what you call bad decisions and disagree...

Either way, enough of the crap like what's bolded.
Ever think that maybe Ballard played over his abilities his first year here? He came into a new organization, signed a multi year/million dollar deal before even stepping on the ice, so he had to show his worth. Is the reverse effect of a player playing well in his contract year. Everything went right for him in his first year, while everything went wrong for him in his second year, so maybe he is a player who is right about in the middle of that, which would be average. He is a good Dman, but not $4.2 million good. I wouldnt be surprised if his career mirrors his last season as a Panther, to a lesser extent though. But since his number could be influenced playing with clearly superior talent in Vancouver, I guess we will have to only see how truly average he is only at the arena


Last edited by pb1300: 10-14-2010 at 03:11 PM.
pb1300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-14-2010, 03:09 PM
  #44
pb1300
BLEED RED
 
pb1300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Aiyio, Greece
Country: Greece
Posts: 10,635
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to pb1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
Maybe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHGoalie27 View Post
Hard to say without ignorance on my part, he's either not an instant NHLer because he isn't good enough or we just didn't want to shell out a couple extra bucks?

I mean, I hope he's not the wrong guy, I just don't know. All I really have on Guds is what you guys tell me.

I want McCabe to take a trip to the Bermuda Triangle so we can find out.
Yes, cause the guy completely showed he belonged in the NHL, yet the brass didnt want to commit to the extra millions he could have made in bonuses. People think that just because certain players make the jump straight to the NHL, that if others dont, then they arent that good. Guds would have made 99% of the teams roster who would have drafted him this past summer.

pb1300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-14-2010, 03:19 PM
  #45
Erick
Registered User
 
Erick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Broward, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 11,587
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
Yes, cause the guy completely showed he belonged in the NHL, yet the brass didnt want to commit to the extra millions he could have made in bonuses. People think that just because certain players make the jump straight to the NHL, that if others dont, then they arent that good. Guds would have made 99% of the teams roster who would have drafted him this past summer.
Ummm, you totally misunderstood my point.

My point being that we don't know if Gudbranson is the right guy yet because...well, he hasn't played a game in the NHL.

Until a player shows that he can consistently produce in the NHL, you don't know anything about that player.

Right now, Gudbranson is nothing more than potential. Obviously it's great to have potential like Markstrom, Guds, etc., to get excited about, but whether or not he's the right choice should be based on how he performs in the NHL, with the Florida Panthers.

And in Gudbranson's case, his career should be compared with the likes of Fowler, as well; considering Gudbranson wasn't exactly a lock to go 3rd in the draft. (like Hall/Seguin were locks to go 1 & 2)

Erick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-14-2010, 03:29 PM
  #46
pb1300
BLEED RED
 
pb1300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Aiyio, Greece
Country: Greece
Posts: 10,635
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to pb1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
Ummm, you totally misunderstood my point.

My point being that we don't know if Gudbranson is the right guy yet because...well, he hasn't played a game in the NHL.

Until a player shows that he can consistently produce in the NHL, you don't know anything about that player.

Right now, Gudbranson is nothing more than potential. Obviously it's great to have potential like Markstrom, Guds, etc., to get excited about, but whether or not he's the right choice should be based on how he performs in the NHL, with the Florida Panthers.

And in Gudbranson's case, his career should be compared with the likes of Fowler, as well; considering Gudbranson wasn't exactly a lock to go 3rd in the draft. (like Hall/Seguin were locks to go 1 & 2)
Its kind of hard to understand anything that you are trying to say when your response was "maybe."

There was a reason why Fowler fell as far as he did. There were questions regarding his game, as well as his demeanor. While there are/were questions regarding Guds as well, he was the better suited player for us to be drafted. I have no problem with Guds being our pick. I would have much rather seen him picked, instead of Fowler.

pb1300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-14-2010, 03:30 PM
  #47
Markstrom Rules
Sup
 
Markstrom Rules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Country: United States
Posts: 16,053
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHGoalie27 View Post
Hard to say without ignorance on my part, he's either not an instant NHLer because he isn't good enough or we just didn't want to shell out a couple extra bucks?

I mean, I hope he's not the wrong guy, I just don't know. All I really have on Guds is what you guys tell me.

I want McCabe to take a trip to the Bermuda Triangle so we can find out.
Well, just because he's not an instant NHLer doesn't mean he wasn't the right pick. Also, we don't know what happened in the negotiations. Everyone assumes the Panthers cheaped out but no one considers that Gud asked for too much.

Markstrom Rules is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-14-2010, 03:37 PM
  #48
pb1300
BLEED RED
 
pb1300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Aiyio, Greece
Country: Greece
Posts: 10,635
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to pb1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
Well, just because he's not an instant NHLer doesn't mean he wasn't the right pick. Also, we don't know what happened in the negotiations. Everyone assumes the Panthers cheaped out but no one considers that Gud asked for too much.
MR, Im curious to know what your thoughts are on this poll? Would you take the 8 seed, or one of Larsson, Couturier, or Hopkins? And why. I would like a two page, 1000 letter page handed in by the morning. Thank you

pb1300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-14-2010, 03:45 PM
  #49
Markstrom Rules
Sup
 
Markstrom Rules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Country: United States
Posts: 16,053
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
MR, Im curious to know what your thoughts are on this poll? Would you take the 8 seed, or one of Larsson, Couturier, or Hopkins? And why. I would like a two page, 1000 letter page handed in by the morning. Thank you
A top pick. Basically for the reasons you already stated. I don't want to become the next Atlanta Thrashers. It's clear that, even if by some miracle we sneak into the playoffs this season, in all likelihood we'll get quickly dismissed once we do. That really doesn't do anything for me at this point. That would have made me happy like 3 years ago. What I want to see is a team that is so deep and good that it is a consistent contender for the Cup year in and year out for many years. Adding another elite talent in the draft only makes that goal much more tangible.

Markstrom Rules is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-14-2010, 07:24 PM
  #50
CHGoalie27
GWAAARRRRRRR
 
CHGoalie27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SoFLA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,420
vCash: 500
What Erick said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
Its hockey dude, not Dancing With The Stars. When you add a talent like Toews, Kane, Stamkos, etc., everyone will find ways to work it out. Thats what happens when you add talent to a team. Was Bure not successful when he was here? Did he not create a chemistry with his teammates? This thing about them not playing with our core yet is bogus. Couturier or Hopkins on this team is an INSTANT upgrade, period.
Joe Thornton in Boston...then Joe Thornton in SJ...then playoff Joe.
My second favorite forward ever, Bure took us to a playoff with no wins. NO CHEMISTRY AMONGST THE TEAM. Barely successful.
I still have no idea about the styling of Couturier or Hopkins because you're too busy trying to make me look dumb to tell me about questions about them...or given the implication that you've even seen them yourself, you didn't say much besides 'they're an instant success'. I'd really like to know about them, from anyone that has seen em play.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
And you want to compare Weiss and Toews because where they were picked, but you completely leave out the fact that these were two completely different drafts, completely different talent at the top. What would you have done in 01? Draft Chistov instead? Or how about Svitov? You pick one thing out of these two drafts that is completely irrelevant, and try to spin it into a poor excuse.
Yes, I know they're two different drafts. That why a high number pick isn't always something to base the season's goal on.
..and what if we don't finish dead last? What do we get if we don't tank right again (We could have easily made playoffs OR had Seguin last year. Neither happened.)

Chistov and Svitov. How about Hemsky?
Wait til EDM stops playing turtle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
You should have never "invested" without knowing the product then. We arent the Habs, Rangers, Leafs, etc., we dont have the funds that those teams do. The ONLY way to build this team properly, at this time, is via the draft, and smart free agent signings. You cant fault the teams drafting on Tallon. This is his first year, for a completely different team top to bottom, compared to the Hawks. What happened before plays no role in what could happen in the future.
Bold, no clue what you're trying to say...not that you would take it from me, but this team has undergone 3 completely different looks since I've been here.
We don't have the funds? There have been stretches of the season where we'd start winning and playoffs look possible, and the place fills. (and not playing a Canadian team) Then stuff changes, decisions are made, and they slump and back to half full.
I know nothing about this team, this product. Right again.
I know Tallon is doing all he really can, I blame Deboer for this team's blunder when I actually (this one's for Erick) MISS JACQUES MARTIN.
We had a contender in a balls match/playoff setting on December 21, 2009...and Booth wasn't even playing. Why that line-up changed is beyond me. With exception to the returning injured, that team playing like they cared should've kept that balls to the walls mentality for about 3 1/2 more months. We could've made it, people would've shown, we wouldn't worry about maxing ourselves out at half the cap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
Ever think that maybe Ballard played over his abilities his first year here? He came into a new organization, signed a multi year/million dollar deal before even stepping on the ice, so he had to show his worth. Is the reverse effect of a player playing well in his contract year. Everything went right for him in his first year, while everything went wrong for him in his second year, so maybe he is a player who is right about in the middle of that, which would be average. He is a good Dman, but not $4.2 million good. I wouldn't be surprised if his career mirrors his last season as a Panther, to a lesser extent though. But since his number could be influenced playing with clearly superior talent in Vancouver, I guess we will have to only see how truly average he is only at the arena
Carlin would have a field day with you. How can anyone play over their ability? Maybe at the top of his ability...but not over...the top of his ability made me watch him
Put him with Garrison for more than a total of 20 minutes last year, and his contract wouldn't have been an issue.

Bold, you wouldn't know it if you saw it....the inside of an arena that is.
(Mods please lay off, needs to be said)
Money must grow on trees for you or you've never been a season seat holder. Maybe both.
Teams thrive on season seat holders. To be a season seat holder, you have to pay money. To have money, you have to work. I could've used that money for other things and watched on TV like you. Oh stupid me again, spending money on things I have no clue of...???????? What am I doing spending so much time on a hockey forum?
Unquestionably, STHers see more of their team from a better standpoint than you or any other who can only see half a zone at a time for the better part of the year. We sure as hell paid for it. (something some here don't even try to understand when a different POV comes along).
Prove it? When I see the whole ice, you see half a zone. That was easy. When I see what Ballard tried passing to, the camera wasn't quick enough or wasn't focused on the off camera cycling (or standing still in many cases). Since you obviously don't like Ballard as much as I do, it'd also be fair to say you haven't paid extra special attention to him, and you're not able to fairly explain why he may or may not be good on a given night.

Not because I'm better than you or anyone else, but because I know I myself can see and explain more live than when I watch on TV.

Unlike some here, I wouldn't presume OR pretend to know as much about things I know someone else has seen more of. I'll ask, it's why I'm here: to try and exchange knowledge. NOT TO IMPRESS YOU AND SEEM KNOWLEDGEABLE FOR IMAGE'S SAKE, OR TRY TO MAKE OTHERS FEEL DUMB, but because I've lived hockey since I was 7 1/2, collecting cards, games, road trips to see games and share it all with people like me...but I sure ain't here to have AN EXPERT LIKE YOU tell me I don't know what I'm looking at.

All I'm saying is that the knowledgeable, analytical fan at the game can catch a better grasp of why certain things happen than the knowledgeable, analytical fan watching at home. (Both parties still knowledgable).
Similar, you're probably the type that thinks you're being labeled as stupid when called ignorant. Nor could you admit it when you are.

...see what your unfriendly tone did? Made me post an essay. I hate essays.
I don't mean to offend if I did, just defend. Read our above back/forths, you should see.
Now no more unfriendly. Cheers and beers. Please.


Last edited by CHGoalie27: 10-14-2010 at 08:36 PM.
CHGoalie27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:31 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.