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Maple Leafs @ Rangers - 10/15/10

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Old
10-18-2010, 08:00 AM
  #301
bigd
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Do you think Gilroy will still be with the team after the trade deadline? It doesn't seem like Torts wants him and i'm not sure they will want to give him the same kind of money in his next contract. Maybe they should just make the best deal they can now.

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10-18-2010, 08:03 AM
  #302
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Originally Posted by bigd View Post
Do you think Gilroy will still be with the team after the trade deadline? It doesn't seem like Torts wants him and i'm not sure they will want to give him the same kind of money in his next contract. Maybe they should just make the best deal they can now.
Not arguing with most of your points (I believe he should be traded/let go), but what is the pointing indicator that Torts does not want Gilroy?

Is it playing him over a defensive-minded rookie (which we've lacked thus far), and who played well in his 2 GP so far? Is that the indicator?

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10-18-2010, 10:24 AM
  #303
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im not going to read through 13 pages of trolling and such, so if this has been discussed extensively then go ahead and skip my post

my DVR ran out of space with 4 min left in the third...what did Emminger do from that point on that everyone thinks he played horrible?

EVERYONE played like garbage in the 2nd period, but he had a very solid game up until my DVR took a poopie...what did i miss? or is he just the new whipping boy?

are people pissed about his pentaly? cause thats plain silly if true

oh, and gilroy looked horrible...significantly worse than emminger

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10-18-2010, 10:52 AM
  #304
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
im not going to read through 13 pages of trolling and such, so if this has been discussed extensively then go ahead and skip my post

my DVR ran out of space with 4 min left in the third...what did Emminger do from that point on that everyone thinks he played horrible?

EVERYONE played like garbage in the 2nd period, but he had a very solid game up until my DVR took a poopie...what did i miss? or is he just the new whipping boy?

are people pissed about his pentaly? cause thats plain silly if true

oh, and gilroy looked horrible...significantly worse than emminger
I dont think Eminger has looked any better or worse than a generic #6 NHL defenseman. In fact, he might be our only defenseman that plays with any sort of edge, for whatever thats worth.

And I dont think hes looked particularly worse than the rest of our defense core. This has been a team-wide disaster so far in the defensive end, and Eminger is the scapegoat at this point.

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10-18-2010, 10:59 AM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I dont think Eminger has looked any better or worse than a generic #6 NHL defenseman. In fact, he might be our only defenseman that plays with any sort of edge, for whatever thats worth.

And I dont think hes looked particularly worse than the rest of our defense core. This has been a team-wide disaster so far in the defensive end, and Eminger is the scapegoat at this point.
ok, thanks, thats what i suspected

if people think he was worse defensively than Gilroy or MDZ then they are out of their faces

as far as i can tell, he's exactly what i would expect from a 3rd pairing defensman

furthermore...while our group of dmen isnt supreme by any stretch of the imagination, they're not the sole reason for our defensive woes

the team, as a whole, is flat out garbage in their own zone

and while i remain a Torts supporter, thats on him

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10-18-2010, 11:13 AM
  #306
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MDZ has been bad, but he just needs to play 3rd pairing and not on the PK and it would be fine.

In order to pretty much fix the D, we need to lose Eminger and pick up a 2nd pair LD somehow.

Then we could run;

Staal-Girardi
Vet LD-Rozsival
MDZ-Sauer

Gilroy

Which would be 10x more comfortable for every member of the defense.

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Old
10-18-2010, 11:22 AM
  #307
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
ok, thanks, thats what i suspected

if people think he was worse defensively than Gilroy or MDZ then they are out of their faces

as far as i can tell, he's exactly what i would expect from a 3rd pairing defensman

furthermore...while our group of dmen isnt supreme by any stretch of the imagination, they're not the sole reason for our defensive woes

the team, as a whole, is flat out garbage in their own zone

and while i remain a Torts supporter, thats on him
If Eminger was homegrown, he'd be getting a pass right now as is the case so often.

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Old
10-18-2010, 11:27 AM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
MDZ has been bad, but he just needs to play 3rd pairing and not on the PK and it would be fine.

In order to pretty much fix the D, we need to lose Eminger and pick up a 2nd pair LD somehow.Then we could run;

Staal-Girardi
Vet LD-Rozsival
MDZ-Sauer

Gilroy

Which would be 10x more comfortable for every member of the defense.
i agree

but honestly i think gilroy is a terrible choice as a 7th dman...id drop him and keep emminger in that senerio

you want your 7th dman to be able to come in if needed and be servicable in his own end playing 10-15min...that is not matt gilroy

emminger is an average 3rd pairing dman, and would be an excellent, close to ideal, 7th in my book

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10-18-2010, 11:44 AM
  #309
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Didn't want to start a new thread on this:



Am I the only one who liked Avery's slash on Komisarek the other night? The Rangers were dead at the point and Avery's antics and penalty breathed life into this team. To me it seemed like a low risk high reward kind of mood. The team was already playing dreadfully awful and heading directly for a loss. What's the worst that happens? Toronto scores on the PP and we lose anyway. However off Avery's antics we gain HUGE momentum and kill off a 5 on 3 and come back to tie the game and at least get a point.

This business of "Sean shouldn't have done that blah blah blah" is garbage. Especially to a POS like Komisarek who takes liberties with players along the boards any chance he gets (to those who have forgotten revisit Jagr vs Komisarek from 2008).

I don't know maybe I just like old time hockey but I thought it was refreshing to see Avery in action the other night.

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Old
10-18-2010, 11:48 AM
  #310
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I dont think Eminger has looked any better or worse than a generic #6 NHL defenseman. In fact, he might be our only defenseman that plays with any sort of edge, for whatever thats worth.

And I dont think hes looked particularly worse than the rest of our defense core. This has been a team-wide disaster so far in the defensive end, and Eminger is the scapegoat at this point.

Absolutely fair and honest assessment. Gilroy is getting his share of the scapegoating as well... but it's been a top to bottom problem back there... including Staal.

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Old
10-18-2010, 11:49 AM
  #311
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If you're ahead in a game of hockey, you shouldn't have to worry about being attacked by an opponent with his stick to "Send a message." In a relatively clean game that was one-sided.


Avery almost cost us a point, and the momentum came not from his slash, but from a long 5 on 3 penalty kill that was pretty damn lucky.

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10-18-2010, 11:54 AM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
If you're ahead in a game of hockey, you shouldn't have to worry about being attacked by an opponent with his stick to "Send a message." In a relatively clean game that was one-sided.


Avery almost cost us a point, and the momentum came not from his slash, but from a long 5 on 3 penalty kill that was pretty damn lucky.
Disagree completely, the team was flat before that slash and had no edge whatsoever. There is a difference in surviving a kill and having sort of a wake up call based on the increase in physical intensity. Let's also not forget the Komisarek took a penalty for taking a shot at Avery after the whistle later in that period.

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10-18-2010, 12:08 PM
  #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
If you're ahead in a game of hockey, you shouldn't have to worry about being attacked by an opponent with his stick to "Send a message." In a relatively clean game that was one-sided.


Avery almost cost us a point, and the momentum came not from his slash, but from a long 5 on 3 penalty kill that was pretty damn lucky.
agree completey

the team rallied from a tremendous penalty killing effort

avery was an idiot for that, and nine out of ten times that game was over the second he made the slash

90% might not even be a high enough percentage

they rallied because cally, hank, staal and i cant remember who else, played their nuts off in the wake of a stupid stupid play (both avery AND feds)


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRedressor View Post
Disagree completely, the team was flat before that slash and had no edge whatsoever. There is a difference in surviving a kill and having sort of a wake up call based on the increase in physical intensity. Let's also not forget the Komisarek took a penalty for taking a shot at Avery after the whistle later in that period.
needless to say, i wholeheartedly disagree with your entire viewpoint on the situation

they rallied DESPITE avery's stupidity....not because of it

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Old
10-18-2010, 12:21 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
agree completey

the team rallied from a tremendous penalty killing effort

avery was an idiot for that, and nine out of ten times that game was over the second he made the slash

90% might not even be a high enough percentage

they rallied because cally, hank, staal and i cant remember who else, played their nuts off in the wake of a stupid stupid play (both avery AND feds)

needless to say, i wholeheartedly disagree with your entire viewpoint on the situation

they rallied DESPITE avery's stupidity....not because of it
avery is the one that rallied the team ... i don't know what game you were watching... but I saw great backchecking from avery and two assists... i wish all of our first line players could put up those numbers...
avery went after armstrong ... he consistently defends his teammates... that inspires the players around him

he was undoubtedly the best player on the ice ... i bought my official avery jersey after that game.... we should be thanking him not criticizing him ... you guys are ridiculous

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Old
10-18-2010, 12:24 PM
  #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
If you're ahead in a game of hockey, you shouldn't have to worry about being attacked by an opponent with his stick to "Send a message." In a relatively clean game that was one-sided.


Avery almost cost us a point, and the momentum came not from his slash, but from a long 5 on 3 penalty kill that was pretty damn lucky.
first of all it was a 4 on 3 and it became a 5 on 3 for a brief period of time ... secondly they were losing before that slash ... what game were you watching

p.s. leafs are one of the most physical and dirty teams in the league

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10-18-2010, 12:25 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by rangersfan111 View Post
first of all it was a 4 on 3 and it became a 5 on 3 for a brief period of time ... secondly they were losing before that slash ... what game were you watching

p.s. leafs are one of the most physical and dirty teams in the league
So what? You need to learn the difference between correlation and causality.

P.S. The rangers were dirtier in that game than the leafs were, sorry to break it to you.

It was a 5 on 3 for at least a minute if not more, thats hardly "brief"

The only reason people defend Avery's actions is because those people have no emotional restraint and would do the same stupid **** were they on the ice in his place.

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10-18-2010, 12:31 PM
  #317
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avery responded to the penatly kill and subsequent just as the rest of the team did...think if they scored on that 5 on 3 he'd have played like that?

avery damn near pissed away any chance of getting points out of that game

thats not even a matter of opinion


Last edited by mullichicken25: 10-18-2010 at 12:41 PM.
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Old
10-18-2010, 12:36 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
So what? You need to learn the difference between correlation and causality.

P.S. The rangers were dirtier in that game than the leafs were, sorry to break it to you.

It was a 5 on 3 for at least a minute if not more, thats hardly "brief"

The only reason people defend Avery's actions is because those people have no emotional restraint and would do the same stupid **** were they on the ice in his place.
rangers were dirtier after the hit on gaborik ... if teams want to play dirty we can play that game too...

the reason why people defend avery is because he sticks up for his teammates ...skates hard... works harder ... a 3rd line player that could play the role of game changer ... he averages 35 points for every 82 games played ... solid defensive hockey... and makes it tough for opposing players to play against us ...

you sound like the whiny leaf fans i have to talk to every day... are you sure your a ranger fan?

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Old
10-18-2010, 01:01 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
So what? You need to learn the difference between correlation and causality.

P.S. The rangers were dirtier in that game than the leafs were, sorry to break it to you.

It was a 5 on 3 for at least a minute if not more, thats hardly "brief"

The only reason people defend Avery's actions is because those people have no emotional restraint and would do the same stupid **** were they on the ice in his place.
Fitz, what Avery provides is a player with some grit and skill. He's an agitator and is supposed to take teams off their games. He did that and used what skill he has to create some chances for us.

We don't have another player that combines sand paper and skill better than Avery.

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Old
10-18-2010, 01:25 PM
  #320
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Tricky penalty. Play hockey and you'll understand.
So since it was a "tricky penalty" we should excuse him for the penalty? It's the 2nd penalty thats led us to a loss this season. I know it's a tricky play but last i checked he plays in the NHL. No excuses

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Old
10-18-2010, 01:30 PM
  #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
If you're ahead in a game of hockey, you shouldn't have to worry about being attacked by an opponent with his stick to "Send a message." In a relatively clean game that was one-sided.


Avery almost cost us a point, and the momentum came not from his slash, but from a long 5 on 3 penalty kill that was pretty damn lucky.
are you talking about the same game where our top player was knocked out for a month with a dirty hit from behind?????

wow this is a painful read. avery tried to fight armstrong and was ignored so you know what? he took a chunk out of one of their franchise players. i loved it. good for aves.

like brian boyle said you kill penalties like that for your teammates and they did and came back to tie the game and get a point. you want to complain complain about marc staal's soft penalty in OT or the entire second period where we were playing pond hockey.

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10-18-2010, 01:36 PM
  #322
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
So what? You need to learn the difference between correlation and causality.

P.S. The rangers were dirtier in that game than the leafs were, sorry to break it to you.

It was a 5 on 3 for at least a minute if not more, thats hardly "brief"

The only reason people defend Avery's actions is because those people have no emotional restraint and would do the same stupid **** were they on the ice in his place.
Grow up Fitz and try and have a civil conversation about the team and not resort to this bs. Just because someone disagrees with your opinion of the team or what is valuable to it doesn't give you the right to judge others and their possible decision making or character.

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10-18-2010, 01:38 PM
  #323
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The reason Avery's move was dumb was because of the situation of the game. Plus he already GOT Komi in the back of the knee. He didn't need to do it again.

That being said, it didn't bother me. What bothered me was Komi acting like he just had his leg cut off and the officials buying into it.

I didn't like the penalty by Avery, but was far more furious with Fedotenko's one. What the hell was he doing? If people were really irritated with Avery more than Feds there I don't know what their deal is.

Avery brings more to this team than his detractors will ever give him credit for, and the holier than thou crowd will never accept any of his actions.

Oh well, there are some of us who appreciate what he brings to the table every night.

Imagine if our top players played like he did? We might actually be decent.

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10-18-2010, 01:41 PM
  #324
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
avery responded to the penatly kill and subsequent just as the rest of the team did...think if they scored on that 5 on 3 he'd have played like that?

avery damn near pissed away any chance of getting points out of that game

thats not even a matter of opinion

I think this is where we disagree the most. I wasn't projecting ANY CHANCE of getting points out of that game before Avery took that penalty. The team through a combination of Avery's actions as well as a solid penalty kill changed their pace. You can't make the claim don't go together because they do. Players often sight killing off certain types of penalties become more of a pride issue than a nuisance. Not 100% sure but I believe Boyle may have addressed this in his post game comments. Either way I am hoping Sean can keep his solid two way play going tonight and get his first of the season.

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10-18-2010, 01:57 PM
  #325
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Not arguing with most of your points (I believe he should be traded/let go), but what is the pointing indicator that Torts does not want Gilroy?

Is it playing him over a defensive-minded rookie (which we've lacked thus far), and who played well in his 2 GP so far? Is that the indicator?
My thoughts exactly. Now, I don't think this is the case, but I'm HOPING that Torts is trying to get Gilroy into some games now to try to showcase him or get his value up a little so that he COULD actually be traded for more than a 5th round pick. However, so far, I don't think his value has changed much at all, certainly not for the positive.

It's funny, because all the things that are supposed to be Gilroy's "strengths" such as making good outlet passes, joining the play in the offensive zone, I've seen Sauer be much more assertive and better at handling those responsibilities. Sauer scored that nice goal off the no-look backhand pass from EC in pre-season because he was joining the rush at the right time. On top of that, Sauer was arguably our BEST defensive d-man in pre-season. He was certainly better than Staal has been so far. I have no doubts that Staal will shake it off and have a great year and continue to improve his already solid all-around game. But it's just not really right that Sauer has been one of our best d-men to this point and yet Gilroy who has been one of our worst is getting start after start.

Also, Eminger has become the new whipping boy, and it's undeserved if you ask me. He's playing with a new team, with a new system that isn't even fully defined yet (because Torts is again TESTING and still toying with things to see how much responsibility the defense can handle) and I don't think he's been outstanding in a negative way. I like his physical play. His positional play is nothing but solid. The only flaws I see are that his first steps are sometimes a little slow, and I've noticed a considerable amount of hesitation both with and without the puck. This could be attributed to him still feeling his way out in this team / system, or that he's just nervous.

Don't forget that Rozsival (who can go from being our best defenseman to our worst on any given night) has played with this kind of lack of decisiveness since Jagr left. Believe it or not, Rozy was more decisive of a player when he was paired with Malik and when he had Jagr to defer to all the time. At least he KNEW what he was going to do. The last couple of seasons, he's half-way between passing or shooting; half-way between going for the puck or staying in his position and defending the front of the net.

Either way, I actually like his (Eminger's) overall game and think there's untapped offensive potential there (that may or may not eventually break through). I want Sauer-Eminger to be the bottom pair, and if Valentenko or McDonagh start to really standout amongst AHL competition, then they can rotate into that third pair or be called up in the case of an injury.

I try not to write off players after only a year and change, but this is a specific situation because of Gilroy's age and his "game." He's labeled as an offensive defenseman. With that label often comes the understanding that you may have to live with some growing pains defensively or even more, you may have to live with some continuous defensive lapses throughout his career (like a Joe Corvo or Ian White or any guy who really wouldn't be on the team if not for his offensive contribution to the back-end). But Gilroy hasn't even shown that he's capable of that ONE dimension he was supposedly signed for. He's an excellent ice-skater. He hasn't looked like much of a hockey player since the first few games of last pre-season. In my opinion, Gilroy doesn't have a future in this league, let alone with this team.

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