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Old
10-16-2010, 07:50 PM
  #1
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Plus/Minus Pens v Flyers

Have at it.

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Old
10-16-2010, 07:52 PM
  #2
lirit
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- FSN and their 'FoxBox'

It was ugly and didn't have PP/PK time..

I'm sure tPB will have a field day with that one..

-Geno had a bajillion giveaways

- Hartnell is still ugly

+ Sid looked much better tonight

+ BJ!

+ Hahahahaha Flyers (Crosby sucks!)


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Old
10-16-2010, 07:57 PM
  #3
KIRK
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Originally Posted by nTsplnk View Post
Have at it.
Here's a pair of controversial comments for discussion:

1. The PP is still poorly coached. First of all, the idea of Gologoski instead of Crosby as rover is silly. Second, I'm glad that Sid finally hit on a pair of open one-timers. But, what's that makes his shooting percentage on those? And, then, there's the 5 on 3 . . . nobody moves, everyone knows it's going to Malkin, and the Flyers sell out their coverage. Strange that they'll use Malkin as a decoy at 5 on 4 but not 5 on 3 . . .

2. Everyone knows that I'm a Malkin fan. But, he's got 0 points at 5 on 5. His biggest offensive asset-- coming through the neutral zone with the puck with speed-- is gone. He's pretty useless on the PP. And, he's got zero confidence in his shot, a situation exacerbated by the fact that he never gets to shoot on the PP from where he's best at that. Simply put, he's not a 8.7M per year player given how he is utilized, and he never will be. Don't read too much drama into this, but I still think that there's an incompatibility with Bylsma/Granato and Malkin . . . not a personal one, but it's clear that Bylsma's ability to utilize Malkin properly went away when Fitzie went back to the front office.

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Old
10-16-2010, 07:59 PM
  #4
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+
Mark Letestu - This guy is the ****ing man. Makes smart plays and plays his heart out.
Kris Letang - I thought Letang played pretty well on both sides of the ice tonight.
Posts - Brent Johnson thanks you. Those posts were insanely clutch tonight.

-
Hutchinson - When is Orpik coming back again?

Neutral
Power Play - Don't let the numbers fool you. The power play sucked again. Malkin and Crosby passing back and forth and waiting for a one-timer isn't an effective 5 on 3 strategy. Having Crosby on the point makes absolutely no sense, and don't let the fact that he scored make you think otherwise.
Crosby - He wasn't playing well aside from that minute span in the 3rd. Yes, those goals were huge, but I cannot really remember a time when he carried the play.
Brent Johnson - Look, he made some clutch saves. That save on Briere at the end was huge. But if even one of the three posts that were hit go in, this is a completely different game.

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Old
10-16-2010, 07:59 PM
  #5
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I noticed no negatives other than FSN's mental retardation and Paul Steigerwald's presence on my sound system.

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Old
10-16-2010, 08:00 PM
  #6
KIRK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWells16 View Post
+
Mark Letestu - This guy is the ****ing man. Makes smart plays and plays his heart out.
Kris Letang - I thought Letang played pretty well on both sides of the ice tonight.
Posts - Brent Johnson thanks you. Those posts were insanely clutch tonight.

-
Hutchinson - When is Orpik coming back again?

Neutral
Power Play - Don't let the numbers fool you. The power play sucked again. Malkin and Crosby passing back and forth and waiting for a one-timer isn't an effective 5 on 3 strategy. Having Crosby on the point makes absolutely no sense, and don't let the fact that he scored make you think otherwise.
Crosby - He wasn't playing well aside from that minute span in the 3rd. Yes, those goals were huge, but I cannot really remember a time when he carried the play.
Brent Johnson - Look, he made some clutch saves. That save on Briere at the end was huge. But if even one of the three posts that were hit go in, this is a completely different game.
With you on all counts, especially the PP.

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Old
10-16-2010, 08:01 PM
  #7
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Sorry for the paltry OP but I don't really value my opinion, I like to see what everyone else thought

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Old
10-16-2010, 08:02 PM
  #8
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I'll say it:

Plus:

+HCDB: he made the right call starting Johnson. The PP looked more like a threat to score and less like a team of Travis's that really didn't want to shoot Old Yeller (the puck). It's still a bit pass happy, but much better.

+Letestu: Does anyone here not have a man crush on this guy? He had Pronger draped all over him and he still scores while flat on the ice! Add to that this was just one of a 8 or 10 plays he made that should be shown to minor hockey players on a film called "Doing the Little Things"

+Goligoski: broke up a few 2 on 1's. Was smooth skating, I think he looks good on the PP. Gonch he ain't, but ain't nobody gonna be Gonch.

+Johnson: watch and learn MAF.

Minus:

-Crosby: for the first 20 odd minutes. Lazy loops on defence.

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Old
10-16-2010, 08:03 PM
  #9
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+ Sid finally having a Sidney Crosby-esque night.
+ Johnson is as solid a backup as I've seen since Conklin.
+ Letang is a beast.
+ Letestu continues to be a diamond in the rough.
+ Beating Philly.
+ Goligoski

- Dupuis should just dump it in whenever he touches the puck, no matter where he is on the ice.
- The PP still looks bad, despite a couple of Sid slappers.
- Having to listen to the Philly announcers/color guys all game.
- Tangradi still getting 10:42 of ice time, he needs to play to improve.
- Seeing Hutchinson and Engelland paired up makes me ill.

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Old
10-16-2010, 08:05 PM
  #10
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+ for my wonderful martinis...

+ for letestu, hes my new man crush,

+ for Sid. Boom goes the ****ing dynamite

+ Brent Johnson, some luck but gotta be good to be lucky and lucky to be good.

+ letang and Gogo - Where did this defense come from?! That's what I'm talking about!

- **** you Briere.. pansy

- the Drop Pass. Let's just not do it.

- When the PP figures itself out and our goaltender situation figures itself out... this team will dominate.




Players of the Game - Sid, Johnson, Letestu

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Old
10-16-2010, 08:05 PM
  #11
SterlingBennett
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+ Letestu - This guy is going to make it very hard for management to send him down even when this team is completely healthy. He is playing fantastic at the moment, and I hope he can keep it up. Awesome effort not giving up at all tonight and he was rewarded with a goal. Good to see.

+ Johnson - He allowed it to stay 1 - 1 in that first person. If it were not for him then it could have easily been 2 - 1 or 3 - 1 in favor of the Flyers. Great robbery in the 3rd period also. Great night in the cage for him.

= Crosby - Awesome that he got 2 PP goals. Great to see. And if it were not for that 2nd goal he would be a -, he is not playing well right now. He seems to be trying to glide through the play. But he is notroious for being a slow starter so this isn't anything to mind really. In 5-6 games we will see Sid build up his momentum again just like the past few seasons.

- Malkin - Other than the nice passing and assist on that 1st PP goal he looked horrible tonight. Giving up the puck... LOOSING the puck with no one near him. Just a bad bad night for #71.

- PP - Even though there were two goals on the PP, we only converted 2 of close to double digit chances. That is horrible. Completely horrible.

- Identity - This team does not have an identity yet, there is no semblance of a team mind at the moment. Seems as if every player is simply playing their own game be damned. This needs to change FAST if we want to be a contender this year.

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Old
10-16-2010, 08:06 PM
  #12
ColePens
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Ben Lovejoy gets a huge + tonight. He was dynamic and looked like a solid defender in the NHL.

Brent Johnson is my other star of the game. He makes key save after key save and gives the Pens a chance to win. What occurs next? Sid and Geno take over and we win the game.

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Old
10-16-2010, 08:06 PM
  #13
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Weird game. Letestu getting a real clutch goal. Pipes being really clutch for Johnson after that and then Philly self-destructed being shorthanded for something like 10 minutes straight.

But major + to Johnson and the entire defence minus Hutch (who wasn't baaad, just not very good).
Among the forwards I cannot say I was impressed by anyone other than Letestu, but Sid deserves props for killing the game with those two goals. He otherwise had a stinker, but you're a special player when you can stink and have 2 goals + 1 assist.

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Old
10-16-2010, 08:07 PM
  #14
KIRK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideline View Post
I'll say it:

Plus:

+HCDB: he made the right call starting Johnson. The PP looked more like a threat to score and less like a team of Travis's that really didn't want to shoot Old Yeller (the puck). It's still a bit pass happy, but much better.

+Letestu: Does anyone here not have a man crush on this guy? He had Pronger draped all over him and he still scores while flat on the ice! Add to that this was just one of a 8 or 10 plays he made that should be shown to minor hockey players on a film called "Doing the Little Things"

+Goligoski: broke up a few 2 on 1's. Was smooth skating, I think he looks good on the PP. Gonch he ain't, but ain't nobody gonna be Gonch.

+Johnson: watch and learn MAF.

Minus:

-Crosby: for the first 20 odd minutes. Lazy loops on defence.
Sideline, the PP didn't look better. The difference this time was the flow of the PP. Usually, Malkin is in the neutered dog position. On Sid's two goals, the flow of the PP put him where he actually was in shooting position. The Flyers were selling out on passes to and to take away the shot from Malkin when he was in one-time position (think of the 5 on 3). So, it gave Sid better than usual looks. Twice tonight, Malkin was in position to be a real decoy for Sid shooting, and twice tonight Sid scored. But, that wasn't the design of the PP. It's how things flowed as the PP wore on.

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Old
10-16-2010, 08:08 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Here's a pair of controversial comments for discussion:

1. The PP is still poorly coached. First of all, the idea of Gologoski instead of Crosby as rover is silly. Second, I'm glad that Sid finally hit on a pair of open one-timers. But, what's that makes his shooting percentage on those? And, then, there's the 5 on 3 . . . nobody moves, everyone knows it's going to Malkin, and the Flyers sell out their coverage. Strange that they'll use Malkin as a decoy at 5 on 4 but not 5 on 3 . . .

2. Everyone knows that I'm a Malkin fan. But, he's got 0 points at 5 on 5. His biggest offensive asset-- coming through the neutral zone with the puck with speed-- is gone. He's pretty useless on the PP. And, he's got zero confidence in his shot, a situation exacerbated by the fact that he never gets to shoot on the PP from where he's best at that. Simply put, he's not a 8.7M per year player given how he is utilized, and he never will be. Don't read too much drama into this, but I still think that there's an incompatibility with Bylsma/Granato and Malkin . . . not a personal one, but it's clear that Bylsma's ability to utilize Malkin properly went away when Fitzie went back to the front office.
Dont you think his penalty shot the other day is a microcosm of his mindset? The second he picked that puck up, you knew that he knew it wasn't going in, and he acted like it.

The other stuff I agree with to some degree, but again, you HAVE to play better when you're being paid that kind of money. Crosby had Guerin around his neck all of last year, yet he still went out there and did what he had to do and got a ton of goals. Save for these last few games, he doesn't mope (at least not DURING play) and just keeps trying at maximum effort.

I mean we could argue that Letestu's get even less help, but there he is, trying everything he can and being rewarded for it.

The PP is inexplicable, but a handful of games in he's going to get put back on that wall and we'll see where it goes. He was there most of last year and it was still only good for 19th overall. A PP setup is "coached", a general strategy with placement and movement with cute diagrams, but remember that the 4 man box will be movingand adjusting, and it's up to the players to improvise and adjust on the fly as well when a play isn't there. It's not X-Box. STUPID flip passes and low percentage cross ice prayers I guarantee you are NOT under coach's orders.

I love Geno too, but if the kid can carry Fedetenko and Max, he can carry anyone. A lot more is up to him than people think.

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Old
10-16-2010, 08:10 PM
  #16
Sideline
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- PP - Even though there were two goals on the PP, we only converted 2 of close to double digit chances. That is horrible. Completely horrible.
2 of close to double digits is better than 20%. If that's the season long conversion rate the Pens are easily a top 10 power play.

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Old
10-16-2010, 08:10 PM
  #17
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+Engelland: Looked good for two games in a row. Didn't get caught out of position, a good hit, cleared the crease, and even jumped into the play once. Maybe I was wrong about him.

-Hutchison: Please just go away. He is the complete opposite of Letestu. He has all the skills that should make him a great player but no sense for the game what so ever.

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Old
10-16-2010, 08:13 PM
  #18
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Also a major + to Letang. Really turning into on of the games best 2-way defensemen.

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Old
10-16-2010, 08:13 PM
  #19
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Ben Lovejoy gets a huge + tonight. He was dynamic and looked like a solid defender in the NHL.

Brent Johnson is my other star of the game. He makes key save after key save and gives the Pens a chance to win. What occurs next? Sid and Geno take over and we win the game.
Wow, Cole, do you think Geno took over the game? I'll repeat what I wrote above . . . 0 points at 5 on 5 for the season, his greatest asset as a player neutralized by the Pens breakout, his shot neutered by the Pens PP, his confidence in his shot gone (because he never gets one of those sweet PP or set ups) . . . right now, I think he's the Pens biggest waste of cap space, and if you look at how this coaching staff uses him, they'd be better off trading him for a right handed shooting scoring line winger and another winger. I mean, seriously, what's the value . . . you're waiting for him to take off when Staal comes back. You could get a pair of Kunitz types for Geno, and Staal would be better off with them (not saying you can't get more for Geno). I'm a Geno fan. I'm a Pens fan. And, it's pretty clear that this coaching staff has no clue what to do with him . . . and, it's so pronounced that it hurts the Pens. People can say "what about the cup" all they want. Different system, and Fitzie was in charge of the forwards then. Best case scenario, Malkin is the player he was two years ago offensively and has regressed defensively. Blinders off . . . as much as we ***** and moan about who's expendable, the guy who's most expendable right now up front is Malkin, because you can get pieces that Dan Bylsma is more comfortable working with for him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
Dont you think his penalty shot the other day is a microcosm of his mindset? The second he picked that puck up, you knew that he knew it wasn't going in, and he acted like it.

The other stuff I agree with to some degree, but again, you HAVE to play better when you're being paid that kind of money. Crosby had Guerin around his neck all of last year, yet he still went out there and did what he had to do and got a ton of goals. Save for these last few games, he doesn't mope (at least not DURING play) and just keeps trying at maximum effort.

I mean we could argue that Letestu's get even less help, but there he is, trying everything he can and being rewarded for it.

The PP is inexplicable, but a handful of games in he's going to get put back on that wall and we'll see where it goes. He was there most of last year and it was still only good for 19th overall. A PP setup is "coached", a general strategy with placement and movement with cute diagrams, but remember that the 4 man box will be movingand adjusting, and it's up to the players to improvise and adjust on the fly as well when a play isn't there. It's not X-Box. STUPID flip passes and low percentage cross ice prayers I guarantee you are NOT under coach's orders.

I love Geno too, but if the kid can carry Fedetenko and Max, he can carry anyone. A lot more is up to him than people think.
In all seriousness, my gut tells me that Therrien got him in a way that Bylsma (without Fitzie) never has. You want him to play like a star, tell him that's what you expect and then put him into position to play like one. You want him to be Granato's old player Wutjek Wolski, then use him like that. One can say "well, Sid . . .", but that really missed the beauty of where Malkin as a player was two years ago: Unlike Sid (and Ovy), he still was pretty raw and still mentally young and pliable. The upside was hard to imagine. And, now, 16 months later, it's gone. Either Geno doesn't care or the incompatibility between this coaching staff and Geno is so pronounced . . . either way, you're talking about a waste of 8.7M in cap space. I just wonder where Geno would be as a player today with a Dave Tippet or a Dave King as his coach, and it's pretty sad to think about those possibilities . . .


Last edited by KIRK: 10-16-2010 at 08:19 PM.
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Old
10-16-2010, 08:14 PM
  #20
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2 of close to double digits is better than 20%. If that's the season long conversion rate the Pens are easily a top 10 power play.
Yes? But if you were watching that game you can not say that was a effective powerplay showing for a game as a whole. You'll have a really hard time of convincing me of that.

The Flyers were playing completely undisciplined and aimless for a good stretch of that game. With how they were playing we should have converted more. Simple as that, no other way to slice it. Especially with the multiple 5 on 3 chances and a 4M major.

Im happy for the win, but I am still very critical of this team at the moment. As a team, we are not playing good hockey.

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Old
10-16-2010, 08:16 PM
  #21
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We've got ears say cheers!

Oh man. What if BJ keeps up this play in goal? I know it's far fetched but seriously.... What does GMRS do then? Keep a 5mil b/u? I don't see that happening but........super crazy.

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10-16-2010, 08:17 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Sideline, the PP didn't look better. The difference this time was the flow of the PP. Usually, Malkin is in the neutered dog position. On Sid's two goals, the flow of the PP put him where he actually was in shooting position. The Flyers were selling out on passes to and to take away the shot from Malkin when he was in one-time position (think of the 5 on 3). So, it gave Sid better than usual looks. Twice tonight, Malkin was in position to be a real decoy for Sid shooting, and twice tonight Sid scored. But, that wasn't the design of the PP. It's how things flowed as the PP wore on.
I agree that it was Malkin's position that gave Sid more space, but a good PP has movement and rotation. We can't really know either way if Geno's rotation was the players throwing the system to the wind or moving like they draw it up in practice.

If we don't see the same movement in the next few games I'll be right back agreeing with you. Until then I'll give DB the benefit of the doubt because the players were looking for the shot more and that's almost always coaching.

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Old
10-16-2010, 08:17 PM
  #23
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Quote:
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Wow, Cole, do you think Geno took over the game? I'll repeat what I wrote above . . . 0 points at 5 on 5 for the season, his greatest asset as a player neutralized by the Pens breakout, his shot neutered by the Pens PP, his confidence in his shot gone (because he never gets one of those sweet PP or set ups) . . . right now, I think he's the Pens biggest waste of cap space, and if you look at how this coaching staff uses him, they'd be better off trading him for a right handed shooting scoring line winger and another winger. I mean, seriously, what's the value . . . you're waiting for him to take off when Staal comes back. You could get a pair of Kunitz types for Geno, and Staal would be better off with them (not saying you can't get more for Geno). I'm a Geno fan. I'm a Pens fan. And, it's pretty clear that this coaching staff has no clue what to do with him . . . and, it's so pronounced that it hurts the Pens. People can say "what about the cup" all they want. Different system, and Fitzie was in charge of the forwards then. Best case scenario, Malkin is the player he was two years ago offensively and has regressed defensively. Blinders off . . . as much as we ***** and moan about who's expendable, the guy who's most expendable right now up front is Malkin, because you can get pieces that Dan Bylsma is more comfortable working with for him.

I felt the emotion/sense of urgency on the powerplay where Sid got his first goal. It finally felt like the guys cared. Most notably - Sid and Geno.

The system still blows and doesn't complement the players, but as long as we are winning at this point and time - i'll take it.

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Old
10-16-2010, 08:17 PM
  #24
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Points don't necessarily equal dominance. I don't think Geno has played where he needs to be, but he has been very good. He has been probably our best offensive player the last 5 games, he is noticeably stronger, has been very hard to knock off the puck. The points will come if he keeps being persistent and playing the game he has been playing.

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Old
10-16-2010, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
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Wow, Cole, do you think Geno took over the game? I'll repeat what I wrote above . . . 0 points at 5 on 5 for the season, his greatest asset as a player neutralized by the Pens breakout, his shot neutered by the Pens PP, his confidence in his shot gone (because he never gets one of those sweet PP or set ups) . . . right now, I think he's the Pens biggest waste of cap space, and if you look at how this coaching staff uses him, they'd be better off trading him for a right handed shooting scoring line winger and another winger. I mean, seriously, what's the value . . . you're waiting for him to take off when Staal comes back. You could get a pair of Kunitz types for Geno, and Staal would be better off with them (not saying you can't get more for Geno). I'm a Geno fan. I'm a Pens fan. And, it's pretty clear that this coaching staff has no clue what to do with him . . . and, it's so pronounced that it hurts the Pens. People can say "what about the cup" all they want. Different system, and Fitzie was in charge of the forwards then. Best case scenario, Malkin is the player he was two years ago offensively and has regressed defensively. Blinders off . . . as much as we ***** and moan about who's expendable, the guy who's most expendable right now up front is Malkin, because you can get pieces that Dan Bylsma is more comfortable working with for him.
I agree with this. Malkin isn't an $8.7 million player with his role on this team right now. We didn't sign him for $8.7 million to screw around on the wing so that our $4 million player can try to figure out how to become a scoring line player.

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