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Old
10-16-2010, 09:35 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
^^ Only thing I'll argue that the coaches are definitely doing wrong lie within the system.

- We are playing a simple 1-2-2. We played a 2-3 when we won the Cup (outside of the majority of the Wings series where we switched back and forth).

- We have no center drive AT ALL. That lane opens up so much and actually makes it easier to get pucks on net. I'd love to see the guys get back to that simple hockey.

- Our powerplay is too complicated. Simplify it and stop worrying about these east-west passes and worry about winning battles and finding 2 on 1's to exploit. Also go back to man defensive zone coverage.



Other than that it's lack of confidence in one another. That is all on the players.
If I said you're the smartest person on Pens HFB how would you take that?

If i said that I hate Troy Polomalu (wtf ever) hair style how would you take that?

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Old
10-16-2010, 09:41 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Zen Arcade View Post


Mike Richards:"Woe is us"
The difference between Crosby and Richards is that Crosby keeps his complaining on the ice. Richards take it to the press, which is only going to be counterproductive to the Flyers.

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10-16-2010, 09:45 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by AK View Post
The difference between Crosby and Richards is that Crosby keeps his complaining on the ice. Richards take it to the press, which is only going to be counterproductive to the Flyers.
That's ********. I saw Crosby at a Qdoba once and he was *****ing about not having enough black beans on his burrito.

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Old
10-16-2010, 09:47 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
The Caps PP is clicking at 11%, and as far as pure snipers are concerned, neither Sid or Geno are at the level of an Ovechkin or Semin.

They didn't forget how to coach. They didn't change anything up. Nobody's doing anything different. We can ***** and moan about coaching all we want, some of it very valid, but in the end most of the responsibility is on the players.

Funny how short this thread is after a win.
Yep. During the 1st period intermission Letestu was interviewed and was asked about the PP. His response: "We have to work harder. We have to realize that no one is going to hand us anything."

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Old
10-16-2010, 09:49 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Zen Arcade View Post


Mike Richards:"Woe is us"
Oh Noooooo!!!! Somebody help!!! This is a emergancy!!! We need a waaaaambulance as soon as possible for Mike Richards!!!!

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Old
10-16-2010, 09:50 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Bluefan75 View Post
When I saw Malkin out there with Crosby somewhat early on, it reminded me of an episode of How I Met Your Mother, known as the Naked Man. Basically the guy goes on a date, and when back at his/her place, when she leaves the room, he strips down so that when she comes back, she is either disgusted, or figures what the hell(claims it works 2 out of 3 times). Robyn(character on the show) tries to show that doing it was not just a reaction to Naked Man, and goes out with him again, but he breaks it off. "You've seen my move. I've got nothing else, it's all downhill from here."

Crosby/Malkin is Bylsma's move, which we've all seen, and certainly does not work nearly as well as the naked man is purported to.

No idea why that popped into my head tonight, but, it did. Bylsma needs to come up with a new move.
Well, in theory, Sid and Geno together is supposed to be the ace in the hole move. The problems, though, are that they're coming out together is telegraphed 1-2 shifts in advance (Bylsma always comes with the juggled second and/or third line first) and that, at some point, when you go to it so often, it ceases to be that surprise spark for the team and becomes the cluster**** that it too often is.

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Old
10-16-2010, 09:52 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
I honestly think that's the best defensive game I've seen him play.
The physical part really is impressive. By the end of the game, Ville Leino was his *****.

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Old
10-16-2010, 09:52 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by AK View Post
The difference between Crosby and Richards is that Crosby keeps his complaining on the ice. Richards take it to the press, which is only going to be counterproductive to the Flyers.
The difference is Crosby has a Art Ross, Rocket Richard, Hart Trophy, Stanley Cup and Richards has a Gold medal that Sid won for him. Oh and a 2nd place trophy.

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Old
10-16-2010, 09:57 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by GrouperTrooper View Post
I think you guys should just relax about Malkin being ruined until Staalsy returns.
If Malkin is still struggling after a dozen games with Staal, then we can all agree that Malkin the winger doesn't work.

I'm optimistic that Tangradi,Staal, Malkin will become THE dominate line for the pens, and one of the better ones in the league.

Then RS will ship out a half dozen grinders and procure a creative right handed winger for Sid.

And all will be right in the world.

Edit* or just they could just promote Letestu to L1!
Grouper, you're clearly missing the point: The point isn't that Malkin won't be fine with Staal. He will be. BUT, the problem is that, on the wing, you take away the most lethal aspect of his offensive game (his ability to gallop through the middle of the ice with the puck). Plus, there's the powerplay issue. Both could be corrected with coaching adjustments, along with the issue that Malkin is more likely to have an impact on a game when you give him a steady, consistent diet of ice time. Unfortunately, the coaching adjustments aren't coming . . . so you'll get a good winger for Staal who's useless on the powerplay in the end. Can the Pens really afford to allot 15% of their cap space for that? Can you really win a cup with that? The fact is that Malkin either isn't the player we thought he was or won't be the player he should be with this coaching staff. Either way, he's a waste of money. Ergo, Ray Shero is going to be forced to make a choice at some point . . . the coaching staff or the player (I think he's going to have to make the choice proactively, as I don't see Malkin pulling a Jagr . . . he's the type who will do what the coach says, even if the coach says to skate off a cliff).

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Old
10-16-2010, 09:58 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
The physical part really is impressive. By the end of the game, Ville Leino was his *****.
lol, Good call, at the end Leino wanted nothing to do with Letang.

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Old
10-16-2010, 10:02 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
It's bunk, so don't buy any of that ****. It's not pee-wee hockey where your coach goes bananas when you're freelancing and getting out of your lane. Some people are looking for ONE occasion where Geno gets stopped up along the boards and go "AH HAH, HE'D NEVER HAVE THAT TROUBLE AT CENTER"

Yes he would. Go back and watch the Cup run and how many times our centers streak down the wing because they saw some room there, or because he wasn't F3 in the D zone so on a turnover, whoever was playing up high was leading the rush.

It's much ado about nothing. If Geno wants to streak up the middle, he will, and he does. Go re-watch tonight's game and see how many times he was "center" as far as the rush was concerned.

If people read the Official site less and didn't get to read Tangradi-Letestu-MALKIN "OMG HE"S ON THE RIGHT AGAIN", they'd actually panic less.
Do you think that I do that? Did you not notice that I was NOT in the Jags camp on the move to RW? Honestly, the whole pollyanna approach here-- he'll be fine-- misses the point. I think he'll be fine. Most people do. The problem is that you're not paying him to be fine. You're paying him to control the flow of games and make an impact. Given how this coaching staff uses him, he's not going to do that. He'll be better with Staal at center, but you're not giving up 15% of your cap for him to be "better". As I just said, either he's not the player we thought he was or he's never going to be that player with this coaching staff. There's really not an alternative, and if you think I like reaching that conclusion, then you're nuts. As a Malkin fan, I want him as a Penguin for life. As a Penguin fan, I know that they're more likely to win another cup either without him or without this coaching staff but not until a choice is made of one.

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Old
10-16-2010, 10:05 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by td_ice View Post
Yep. During the 1st period intermission Letestu was interviewed and was asked about the PP. His response: "We have to work harder. We have to realize that no one is going to hand us anything."
I have the entire Cup run on my computer in all it's hi-def glory. If you have Gamecenter, which archives the games, I suggest you watch the first two periods of game 6 against the 'Wings. It's the best example because that was the most dominant first two periods the Pens had against the 'Wings in that series.

The entire time the lines are ****ed and jumbled. You'll see Sykora out with Crosby and Kunitz. Pay attention and you'll see one shift with Dupuis on with Fedetenko and Malkin (not a typo) Where all three of them go nuts and try to take 3 separate Red Wings to the infirmary on 3 separate hits within 5 seconds of each other.

My point is Geno didn't give a **** who he was out there with. He just did his thing because he was Geno, and at that time he was the best player in the world, and he believed it. He'd streak up the middle, he'd streak down the right, he'd streak down the left, all depending on where his linemates were and he didn't give a rat **** because again, he was Geno, and he was the man.

If you want to see the main differences between what we see now and then? It's Geno not being himself, Sid looking hurt and tired, and a lack of intensity from the support players. Oh, and Fleury playing like he was being paid 5M dollars.

Except for Cooke, who buys in 100%, I saw a lot of times where Philly defenseman got a free pass when going back for pucks because Pens players would rather wave for a puck they had no chance of getting to instead of finishing their hits.

Watch that one game, and to make a long story short, the only difference is a lack of intensity. That's it and that's all.

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Old
10-16-2010, 10:07 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Grouper, you're clearly missing the point: The point isn't that Malkin won't be fine with Staal. He will be. BUT, the problem is that, on the wing, you take away the most lethal aspect of his offensive game (his ability to gallop through the middle of the ice with the puck). Plus, there's the powerplay issue. Both could be corrected with coaching adjustments, along with the issue that Malkin is more likely to have an impact on a game when you give him a steady, consistent diet of ice time. Unfortunately, the coaching adjustments aren't coming . . . so you'll get a good winger for Staal who's useless on the powerplay in the end. Can the Pens really afford to allot 15% of their cap space for that? Can you really win a cup with that? The fact is that Malkin either isn't the player we thought he was or won't be the player he should be with this coaching staff. Either way, he's a waste of money. Ergo, Ray Shero is going to be forced to make a choice at some point . . . the coaching staff or the player (I think he's going to have to make the choice proactively, as I don't see Malkin pulling a Jagr . . . he's the type who will do what the coach says, even if the coach says to skate off a cliff).
The other option would be to trade parts like Staal, Fleury et al and move Malkin back to center. But maybe that's just not feasible with this coaching staff for whatever reason. If that's the case, then I agree with you.

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Old
10-16-2010, 10:09 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Do you think that I do that? Did you not notice that I was NOT in the Jags camp on the move to RW? Honestly, the whole pollyanna approach here-- he'll be fine-- misses the point. I think he'll be fine. Most people do. The problem is that you're not paying him to be fine. You're paying him to control the flow of games and make an impact. Given how this coaching staff uses him, he's not going to do that. He'll be better with Staal at center, but you're not giving up 15% of your cap for him to be "better". As I just said, either he's not the player we thought he was or he's never going to be that player with this coaching staff. There's really not an alternative, and if you think I like reaching that conclusion, then you're nuts. As a Malkin fan, I want him as a Penguin for life. As a Penguin fan, I know that they're more likely to win another cup either without him or without this coaching staff but not until a choice is made of one.
KIRK, I want to see a few games a Staal-Malkin before I say it can't be great. Geno does really well as the late/support man coming with speed (like the Carolina series). I think Staal's centre drive has the potential to bring out that facet of Geno's game to a much greater extent then we've seen.

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Old
10-16-2010, 10:09 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Grouper, you're clearly missing the point: The point isn't that Malkin won't be fine with Staal. He will be. BUT, the problem is that, on the wing, you take away the most lethal aspect of his offensive game (his ability to gallop through the middle of the ice with the puck.

I've seen the guy doing an awful lot of galloping lately.
While I disagree, there are those who feel Geno's been the "best" offensive pen so far. He's still adjusting, and he's not really using his linemates that well.

He (and Sid) need to simply the game a bit, take the biscuit to the net and put some shots on the net. Looping in to the zone, or pulling up along the boards to dish to the d-man is not working for them right now.


Last edited by GrouperTrooper: 10-16-2010 at 10:15 PM.
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Old
10-16-2010, 10:17 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Do you think that I do that? Did you not notice that I was NOT in the Jags camp on the move to RW? Honestly, the whole pollyanna approach here-- he'll be fine-- misses the point. I think he'll be fine. Most people do. The problem is that you're not paying him to be fine. You're paying him to control the flow of games and make an impact. Given how this coaching staff uses him, he's not going to do that. He'll be better with Staal at center, but you're not giving up 15% of your cap for him to be "better". As I just said, either he's not the player we thought he was or he's never going to be that player with this coaching staff. There's really not an alternative, and if you think I like reaching that conclusion, then you're nuts. As a Malkin fan, I want him as a Penguin for life. As a Penguin fan, I know that they're more likely to win another cup either without him or without this coaching staff but not until a choice is made of one.
I'm not referring to you at all my friend, and certainly not for that. Even though I don't agree with some of what you say, it sure as **** isn't because you don't give well thought out arguments for why you believe some of the things you do.

That little comment was more for some of the guys who write some variation of "OMG MALKIN ON WING FIRE BYLSMA" without actually paying attention to the fact that LW/C/RW is actually different from F1/F2/F3. It's funny: I get home last night to watch the archived game, but the tools at NHL.COM thought it wise to - while not posting a final score - let me know that it was an "OT FINAL" I wasn't going to watch the game knowing it was tied after regulation, so I just checked the final score, saw that we won, and started watching the game. Before I did I looked at the +/- thread, and read a few posts about Malkin at wing and how he was being stopped. So I started watching the game, and all I saw was Geno for the most part leading the rush up the middle - then towards the end of the game, Geno gets jammed along the boards while standing still and Errey made a comment along the lines of "Yup, that's the difference between Malkin at center and wing" And that's when I realized what all the outrage was. Instead of ****ing watching and paying attention, people heard one comment from the TV people, prompting some to lose their minds.

We're going to agree to disagree on this issue for a while man, but I honestly urge you to watch Game 6 against the Wings, and some of the other archived games and you'll truly see that's its' really more about Geno himself than anything else.

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Old
10-16-2010, 10:24 PM
  #92
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Plus:
1-Brent Johnson. Posts or not, the guy is providing solid goaltending, and coming up with those key saves the team needs. If people are going to shrug off his performance because of a couple of posts hit, then you might as well discount all good goaltending performances. Posts are hit all the time.
2-Sidney Crosby. He still wasn't as good as we're used to, but at least he's started putting the puck in the net. 2 key powerplay goals to put the game away is what you need from your top player, even if the rest of his game was simply average.
3-Mark Letestu. The kid just keeps on producing, even when they start him off on the 4th line. When everyone's healthy, he better damn well still have a regular shift in the top-9. If he's relegated to 4th line, or worse, sent down or scratched, I'll flip.

Even:
1-Engelland/Lovejoy. They're doing a solid job back there, especially given the injuries we currently have on our blueline. Unlike Hutchinson, they're not playing like liabilities.
2-Comrie/Dupuis. Hey, they finally got their first points of the year. Not exactly a good game for either, but at least they're no longer at zero on the score sheet.
3-Geno. He's still looking ... sluggish. He looked better tonight, I thought, but was still making silly turnovers and was being too obvious on the PP. The Pens need their two-headed monster to carry them offensively.

Minus:
1-Powerplay. I might as well copy and paste this into every damn post game thread, since there doesn't seem to be any improvement in sight. Yeah, yeah, a couple of PP goals tonight. But overall, considering the number of chances -- including two 5 on 3s -- the team still looks lost.
2-Hutchinson. He's so awful out there that I wonder why they don't play someone like Strait or Bortuzzi instead. He's simply terrible at everything at the NHL level.

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Old
10-16-2010, 10:25 PM
  #93
Coach John McGuirk
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I realize it's probably selfish, counter-productive and will never happen, but I want Sid and Geno to get two solid, expensive guys on each of their lines. I'm sick of seeing them have to try and beat the world on their own.

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Old
10-16-2010, 10:29 PM
  #94
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I said this after I think the third game...and that is, when we're complaining about Geno and Crosby this early in the season, I take it as a positive. We were all worried about support players but guys like Letestu, Goligoski, TK, and Tangradi are all playing very well.

You know 87 and 71 will turn it around. They're both too good not to. Though it would nice if it would come sooner rather than later.

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Old
10-16-2010, 10:38 PM
  #95
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+ Crosberry. Now that is how a captain plays.
+ Letestu. This dude has a non-stop motor. If he doesn't stay on this team for the full 82 game season I'm calling for Bylsma's head.
+Go Go. He's seriously progressing in all aspects. Offensively he's looking fantastic and defensively he's gotten a lot better. He's still learning to be physical (he's getting there) but he's gotten a lot smarter
+Letang. He's looking great defensively.

-Geno. Someone let him know there is a hockey season going on, oh, and that he's NOT a Flyer
-Hutchinson. Terrible, just terrible.
-Dupuis. Please leave. Please.
-Rupp. Meh. More senseless penalties. Come on now.
-Tangradi. Love the Big Dog, but he didn't have a good game. That penalty was a killer too.

=Johnson. Made clutch saves, but I heard the cling of the post about 5 times. Not that great.
=Powerplay. Scored twice, but still average at best
=

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Old
10-16-2010, 10:50 PM
  #96
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Plus

+ Chris Kunitz
Made his mind up to start shooting early in this game and finally got going offensively. He made a nice decision to move in on the net for his goal (rather than shooting from the top of the circle).

+ Net presence
A lot better this game, good on screens and ready for rebounds

+ Goligoski, Letestu, Lovejoy and Martin
Just like last game, another solid effort

+ Letang
Looking great after a shaky start to the season. Good job sacrificing his body on the 2 on 1. Now top ten in league for +/-
Remember he is only 23 (two years younger than Gogo) and now in his 4th full season. The upside is still there and he should only get better and more consistent.

+ Blue-liners
Hard to believe the Penguins are missing two of the top four d-men. Overall defense was been better than anticipated these past couple of games.


Minus

- Malkin
Needs to cut down the length of his shifts and make more happen 5 on 5. This was a hard game to judge even strength play because of the penalties but he needs to be better.

- Tangradi
It looks like he is getting a pass so far from this game, did I miss anything? I know the ice time was down but when he was on the ice, I don't remember anything spectacular.

- Power play, again
Early power play looked horrible again. Too stationary. Standing still does not work at even strength, why should it with the extra skater? They did start moving around better later in the game but Malkin ends up the left side too often. I think Bobrovsky was a little out of position on Crosby's one-timer that ended up flat on the ice under his pads.

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Old
10-16-2010, 11:05 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Bluefan75 View Post
When I saw Malkin out there with Crosby somewhat early on, it reminded me of an episode of How I Met Your Mother, known as the Naked Man. Basically the guy goes on a date, and when back at his/her place, when she leaves the room, he strips down so that when she comes back, she is either disgusted, or figures what the hell(claims it works 2 out of 3 times). Robyn(character on the show) tries to show that doing it was not just a reaction to Naked Man, and goes out with him again, but he breaks it off. "You've seen my move. I've got nothing else, it's all downhill from here."

Crosby/Malkin is Bylsma's move, which we've all seen, and certainly does not work nearly as well as the naked man is purported to.

No idea why that popped into my head tonight, but, it did. Bylsma needs to come up with a new move.
thumbs up for referenceing how i met your mother

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Old
10-16-2010, 11:22 PM
  #98
lirit
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- Mike Richards being a baby..


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Old
10-16-2010, 11:25 PM
  #99
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- Mike Richards being a baby..

Those tears look like something else, and it's freaking me out a little.

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Old
10-16-2010, 11:27 PM
  #100
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Those tears look like something else, and it's freaking me out a little.

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