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Habs win 4-3 vs the Sens - Kostitsyn buys the fans

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Old
10-17-2010, 11:02 AM
  #201
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
I really, really want to like Martin, I do.

But I don't.

Saying what he did about AK was about the worst possible thing he could have done.

AK is trying. AK is performing. Right now he needs every encouragement, and JM says something like that.

That's not only gonna piss AK off, it's really gonna piss the captain off too. And PG, and the Molsons.

Martin will lose the team damn fast with a few more stupidities like that. Damn fast.

The Habs have invested hugely in AK, and they missed good picks in taking him. Now is not the time to fack him up JM. DUH.

If JM keeps this up, he's got 1 year max. Book it.
If you think that one little joke comment is going to have any significant impact to Andrei or anyone else for that matter, you are delusional.

These guys are grown men and professionals, their confidence doesn´t shatter like a little sissy boy over meaningless comments.

I also like the double standard where Kostitsyn gets all the credit for playing well, but if he doesn´t, its on Martin.

Kostitsyn is his own player man, he will play the way he sets out and prepares for himself. Simply put, its up to him, not silly little comments from the coach.

OH, and BTW, before you throw Martin under the bus for a joke, why don´t you check out this quote from last night as well:

Quote:
"Andrei is an important element of our team when he uses his strength, when he goes to the net, and his shot can be an intimidating force," Canadiens coach Jacques Martin said. "He's been a big factor in our success the last couple of games."
http://www.nhl.com/ice/recap.htm?id=2010020055


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10-17-2010, 11:06 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Habs13 View Post
Breaking Kids ; A Montreal Tradition...
Bowman was the meanest son of a b-itch coach ever, but he developed flower, and showed patience with him, among many other talented kids.

Breaking kids is NOT a Habs tradition, unless your'e speaking of the abolutely sh-it coaching we've had since Bowman.


Last edited by bsl: 10-17-2010 at 11:15 AM.
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10-17-2010, 11:10 AM
  #203
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Kostitsyn aims to win the crowd.

After his triumphant comeback performance from last night, it was quite clear that this man had followed the advice of a legendary gladiator named Maximus.



In case you missed his wonderful golazo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYR8it7N6mQ

Be true to yourselves and to all other fellow HF board members and give props to Andrei Kostitsyn in this thread.


Last edited by PacoXIII: 10-17-2010 at 11:16 AM.
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10-17-2010, 11:11 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Nice to see Ottawa crumple after taking some bad penalties.
- Pleks and A Kost amazing
- Hammer and Spacegoat don't belong near this team
- gomer totally worthless
- Pouliot deserves better linemates, he was all over tonight with little support
- Price was solid, poor kid is doomed behind this defense
- Our PP needs better point men, I havnt a clue what Subban was doing but it failed

Dude, what are you smoking? You obviously don't know hockey very well. Pouliot is the useless one on that line. Why do you think JM moved him off the line and onto the 4th line? Reason is he is playing with no confidence. Until he plays with confidence he will go no where with this team.

What we are sorely lacking and hopefully Eller will be able to fill this void once his 'rookie' status is done with is being on the GG line. Let's call it the 'EGG' line.

Eller has the talent to be a top offensive threat and JM see's him as that as well if you would have listened to the post-game comments. Eventually he will be there.

Overall though, so far so good. Time to sit back and wait for the Leafs to tank

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10-17-2010, 11:11 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Bowman was the meanest son of a b-itch coach ever, but he developed flower, and showed patience with him, among many other talented kids.

Breaking kids is NOT a Habs tradtion, unless your'e speaking of the abolutely sh-it coaching we've had since Bowman.
Well Martin did fine work with Hossa, Alfredsson and Havlat. It might suck to be a kid now, but he will grow up and realize he is a professional and it's a different league. He will get benched and hopefully he responds. Martin was way more harsh with Spezza as a youth and he never balked.

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10-17-2010, 11:14 AM
  #206
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
If you think that one little joke comment is going to have any significant impact to Andrei or anyone else for that matter, you are delusional.

These guys are grown men and professionals, their confidence doesn´t shatter like a little sissy boy over meaningless comments.

I also like the double standard where Kostitsyn gets all the credit for playing well, but if he doesn´t, its on Martin.

Kostitsyn is his own player man, he will play the way he sets out and prepares for himself. Simply put, its up to him, not silly little comments from the coach.
I understand what you're saying, and I agree with you to a point. The players are big boys and should shrug such things off. Fair enough.

However in all human endeavours, psychology, and especially encouragement, can make a big difference.

I depend on 20 staff, and I do the best I can to show them my respect, and I would NEVER make a sarcastic remark about any of them like JM did last night.

If you don’t think that counts, I respectfully disagree. JM will lose the respect of his players very quickly by saying such things to the media, and without their respect, he, and the team, will not perform this year.

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10-17-2010, 11:15 AM
  #207
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Well Martin did fine work with Hossa, Alfredsson and Havlat. It might suck to be a kid now, but he will grow up and realize he is a professional and it's a different league. He will get benched and hopefully he responds. Martin was way more harsh with Spezza as a youth and he never balked.
I always like to bring up Spezza, Martin was INSANELY harsh on him. It never phased Spezza´s career one bit, he became a strong player and put up 100 points a couple of times.

Rookies need to be treated as such, and mistakes are to be magnified until they understand how to make the effective and simple plays they need to be an NHL player.

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10-17-2010, 11:18 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
If you think that one little joke comment is going to have any significant impact to Andrei or anyone else for that matter, you are delusional.

These guys are grown men and professionals, their confidence doesn´t shatter like a little sissy boy over meaningless comments.

I also like the double standard where Kostitsyn gets all the credit for playing well, but if he doesn´t, its on Martin.

Kostitsyn is his own player man, he will play the way he sets out and prepares for himself. Simply put, its up to him, not silly little comments from the coach.

OH, and BTW, before you throw Martin under the bus for a joke, why don´t you check out this quote from last night as well:



http://www.nhl.com/ice/recap.htm?id=2010020055
Missed your post of Jm's second quote, sorry about that. That tempers my irritation with him to some degree, but I'm watching him, believe me.

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10-17-2010, 11:23 AM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
I always like to bring up Spezza, Martin was INSANELY harsh on him. It never phased Spezza´s career one bit, he became a strong player and put up 100 points a couple of times.

Rookies need to be treated as such, and mistakes are to be magnified until they understand how to make the effective and simple plays they need to be an NHL player.
I'd also like to point out that Martin demoted Subban and mentioned he didn't play up to his abilities against Tampa, whatever he said to him Subban got the message because he's been much better in his last two outings. This a more recent example, but I like yours too.

If the players have a strong head, they'll only take the critisism and use it to become better players.

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10-17-2010, 11:24 AM
  #210
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I get comfort from the fact that this team is in the Northeast Division.

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10-17-2010, 11:29 AM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
I always like to bring up Spezza, Martin was INSANELY harsh on him. It never phased Spezza´s career one bit, he became a strong player and put up 100 points a couple of times.

Rookies need to be treated as such, and mistakes are to be magnified until they understand how to make the effective and simple plays they need to be an NHL player.
Uhh Spezza has never put up 100 points in the nhl (one season he was one pace)

But yah i think Martin can turn eller into a two way beast even as a winger ala Hossa

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10-17-2010, 11:37 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
I always like to bring up Spezza, Martin was INSANELY harsh on him. It never phased Spezza´s career one bit, he became a strong player and put up 100 points a couple of times.

Rookies need to be treated as such, and mistakes are to be magnified until they understand how to make the effective and simple plays they need to be an NHL player.
Another good point. However may I say that I believe the very best coaches understand each player individually. You may disagree, but I believe that this is a crucial skill for today’s coaches.

My guess is that Spezza is a tough kid that responds to the tough coach approach. Not all players do, and judging by what I have seen of him the last few years, I would say that AK needs encouragement and patience, not benching, sarcasm and punishment.

‘One size does not fit all’ in management, and I have seen many poor managers fail with just that policy.

Therefore I expect that Martin should understand each of his players, and manage them accordingly. Is that too much to ask of a modern NHL coach? I think not.

I like your arguments, but the evidence I see so far is that Martin is a poor manager of young players. I hope that he proves me wrong!

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10-17-2010, 12:04 PM
  #213
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I'd also like to point out that Martin demoted Subban and mentioned he didn't play up to his abilities against Tampa, whatever he said to him Subban got the message because he's been much better in his last two outings. This a more recent example, but I like yours too.

If the players have a strong head, they'll only take the critisism and use it to become better players.
Agreed. And when you look at how far a player like Eller has gone, I have no doubt in my mind that he will rebound and he and the team will be better for it.

Montreal has tried to coddle players in recent years and it hasn't worked. Maybe tough love is the answer, at least with the current batch of rookies?

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10-17-2010, 12:11 PM
  #214
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Patience with Eller people...21 years old first season in the NHL witha veteran team. The season his long, he will progress and get his chance eventually.

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10-17-2010, 12:19 PM
  #215
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I think the Martin comment on Kostitsyn it's just a little joke, look like almost a inside joke in the locker. I'm sure Kostitsyn only care about having big minute and PP time. When things go well everything is funny.

Phil Jackson do that kind of comment on Kobe everytime. But in the end he play him alot and he's the guy who make the big plays. Kobe didn't like Phil when he was young but now he only want to be play for this coach


His all aroung game is way better this year and for me we have to give Martin credit for being hard with him last season. Martin know what he's doing with young players and in Kostitsyn case he's right so far.

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10-17-2010, 12:26 PM
  #216
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Dude, what are you smoking? You obviously don't know hockey very well. Pouliot is the useless one on that line. Why do you think JM moved him off the line and onto the 4th line? Reason is he is playing with no confidence. Until he plays with confidence he will go no where with this team.

What we are sorely lacking and hopefully Eller will be able to fill this void once his 'rookie' status is done with is being on the GG line. Let's call it the 'EGG' line.

Eller has the talent to be a top offensive threat and JM see's him as that as well if you would have listened to the post-game comments. Eventually he will be there.

Overall though, so far so good. Time to sit back and wait for the Leafs to tank
I think you're the one that smoking something.
Pouliot was a waste of time on the 4th line. That's why Martin cut his bench short and put Pouliot back on with Gomez and Gionta in the 3rd.
Pouliot was the better player out of Gomez and Gionta when he was with them. I never understood his demotion, and right now he's rightfully back on the 2nd line.

Eller was part of the players that were benched in the 3rd.

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10-17-2010, 12:28 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
I really, really want to like Martin, I do.

But I don't.

Saying what he did about AK was about the worst possible thing he could have done.

AK is trying. AK is performing. Right now he needs every encouragement, and JM says something like that.

That's not only gonna piss AK off, it's really gonna piss the captain off too. And PG, and the Molsons.

Martin will lose the team damn fast with a few more stupidities like that. Damn fast.

The Habs have invested hugely in AK, and they missed good picks in taking him. Now is not the time to fack him up JM. DUH.

If JM keeps this up, he's got 1 year max. Book it.

Yeah, these poor babies can`t take it. It will ruin everything for the team

Come on, I actually found it funny. Your forgetting that JM went on to praise AK, alot more than his 1-liner. So relax a bit. Your acting like this was some huge slap to the face. If it wasnt JM saying it, it would have been the media.


EDIT: sorry, should have read on and read some of your responses

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10-17-2010, 12:47 PM
  #218
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Uhh Spezza has never put up 100 points in the nhl (one season he was one pace)

But yah i think Martin can turn eller into a two way beast even as a winger ala Hossa
You are right, my bad, he hasn´t hit 100 points, but over 90 a couple of times. My point still stands.

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10-17-2010, 12:56 PM
  #219
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Another good point. However may I say that I believe the very best coaches understand each player individually. You may disagree, but I believe that this is a crucial skill for today’s coaches.

My guess is that Spezza is a tough kid that responds to the tough coach approach. Not all players do, and judging by what I have seen of him the last few years, I would say that AK needs encouragement and patience, not benching, sarcasm and punishment.

‘One size does not fit all’ in management, and I have seen many poor managers fail with just that policy.

Therefore I expect that Martin should understand each of his players, and manage them accordingly. Is that too much to ask of a modern NHL coach? I think not.

I like your arguments, but the evidence I see so far is that Martin is a poor manager of young players. I hope that he proves me wrong!
he wont do that, never!!!! He is an average coach with a good team, he is not Guy Bucher

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10-17-2010, 01:30 PM
  #220
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Argh!!!!!!!
I just checked out my Mise-O-Jeu.

If the Habs would of won this game 5-3, I would of made 1,638$ (i bet 5$). Why couldn't you score 1 empty net goal!!!

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10-17-2010, 01:45 PM
  #221
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I find it hilarious that some people think they know our younger players more so than the coach! Ofcourse Martin is not perfect but his work with young players in the past speaks for itself. Aren't Plekanec and Pyatt flourishing with Martin? Ofcourse some of you will give all the credit to Plekanec and ignore Martin's ability to get the most out of Plekanec. Martin was blamed for Lattendrense's laziness yet Lat is repeating his foolishness all over again in Minny.

Martin is not stupid, he is very calculating. If you guys understand the dangers of benching a player like Eller don't you think Martin and his coaching staff would as well? Clearly, since he knows Eller more so than any of us he and the coaching staff thought it would be best to bench him.


People claim Martin has no patience. Didn't some of you whine that he was too patient with Pacs?

I understand why Eller was benched, to be -2 in 4 minutes is pretty awful whether the goals were directly his fault or not. A rookie's confidence is important but blind confidence won't do anyone any good. Eller seems more confident than Pleks was a rookie, yet Pleks( who has been benched a few in his nhl career) turned out alright.

If you would do things differently, fine but Martin is no fool.

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10-17-2010, 02:09 PM
  #222
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he wont do that, never!!!! He is an average coach with a good team, he is not Guy Bucher
Only on HFboards can a rookie NHL coach that has coached freaking 4 games so far be already deemed better than a coach that is top 10 IN THE HISTORY OF THE SPORT in wins.

What...a...joke.

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10-17-2010, 02:21 PM
  #223
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Only on HFboards can a rookie NHL coach that has coached freaking 4 games so far be already deemed better than a coach that is top 10 IN THE HISTORY OF THE SPORT in wins.

What...a...joke.
Hah, yeah that made me laugh out loud. A lot of posts on the board do that though. Kudos to you and people like you for still trying to inject some brainpower into threads, I've always been to lazy to even try and keep up some rational discussion with some of our more 'special' posters

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10-17-2010, 02:31 PM
  #224
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I dont think Elliott was that bad and neither did their coaching staff. Clouston was upset at the lack of protection they gave their goalie, but not the goalie himself.

He didnt have much of a chance on any goal. As for that rebound on the 4th goal, from what I remember, akost deflected the puck in a bang-bang play. Its pretty tough for a goalie to steer that puck into the corner or not allow a rebound since the puck was along the ice.
It was how ridiculously far out into the slot he pushed it. Granted there was also blown coverage on the play too, and the Gionta breakaway was pretty crappy too. Gionta lost control of the puck and Elliott just stood their mesmerized. We ran Huet out of town for that kind of stuff.

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10-17-2010, 02:49 PM
  #225
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I find it hilarious that some people think they know our younger players more so than the coach! Ofcourse Martin is not perfect but his work with young players in the past speaks for itself. Aren't Plekanec and Pyatt flourishing with Martin? Ofcourse some of you will give all the credit to Plekanec and ignore Martin's ability to get the most out of Plekanec. Martin was blamed for Lattendrense's laziness yet Lat is repeating his foolishness all over again in Minny.

Martin is not stupid, he is very calculating. If you guys understand the dangers of benching a player like Eller don't you think Martin and his coaching staff would as well? Clearly, since he knows Eller more so than any of us he and the coaching staff thought it would be best to bench him.


People claim Martin has no patience. Didn't some of you whine that he was too patient with Pacs?

I understand why Eller was benched, to be -2 in 4 minutes is pretty awful whether the goals were directly his fault or not. A rookie's confidence is important but blind confidence won't do anyone any good. Eller seems more confident than Pleks was a rookie, yet Pleks( who has been benched a few in his nhl career) turned out alright.

If you would do things differently, fine but Martin is no fool.
Plekanec is not flourishing thanks to Martin. He had 1pt less playing under Carbo. In his ''bad'' year, he still put up 20G. Plekanec is one of the best two way centers in the NHL, he would do well under any coach. Last year, he wasn't helped by Martin. I think he played with every possible player on the team and still never ceased to produce. It came entirely from him. The coach could have been Martin, Boucher, Babcock, Ruff, Therrien, Michel freaking Bergeron, he still would have had a good season.


I disagree about the way Martin handled Eller. His benching was not a calculated move in an attempt to make him better, it's simply a punishment for being on the ice for back to back goals. You have to wonder though, why was Eller on the ice vs their top line when they scored the first goal. Match ups should be to our advantage.
These things happen, it's only one goal, so it's not that big of a deal.
But then, why the hell was Eller on the ice, yet again, halfway through the game having played 4min only, against their top line for their 2nd goal??...
That's twice Martin got screwed on his match ups. That's his job. You know he was trying to change his line because Gomez was on with Eller and Lappy for the 2nd goal, so this was a coaching mistake.
Taking it out on Eller is rather foolish.

You want to give the kid some chances...then when you want to demote Pouliot, give a shot to Eller instead of Moen.
You want to be strict with the kid, then send him in the minors so he can work on those little things you'd punish him on over here.

This is only game 5, Subban has made many turnovers and mistakes, Spacek looks completely lost (and he was on for all three Ottawa goals). Eller didn't deserve to be benched like that.


But I'm not going to make a big thing out of it, we will see how he responds Thursday. I'm just not a fan of Martin's methods. In most cases, I find they are counter productive.

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