I agree 100% with all of this. I'm fairly confident we are going to ride BJ until he has a bad game...then roll with fleury again. Hopefully the fleury we expect.
that wouldn't be really fair for BJ,considering how many opportunities MAF got after sucking in a game. but then again,I guess in a cap world you have to force your 5 millions goalie in.
as for rebounds,yes BJ did give up some rebounds today,but not even close to how many MAF gave up on the Leafs game for example.
also,I'll gladly eat crow if MAF comes back and he becomes the 2008 playoff goalie again.
Team is just playing better all together. Our superstars are showing up. We are in desperation mode with our defense, so they are working harder to insulate the goalie. Different goalie is just a coincidence imo. We would of won the last 4 with MAF in goal, I'm sure of it.
I'd agree with this.
For some perspective:
The Pens have scored 16 goals in Johnsons' 4 wins (4 G/G)
The Pens Have scored 7 goals in Fleury's 3 losses (2.3 G/G)
It's pretty hard to win when your team only scores 2.3 G/G. Had the Pens scored at the same pace for MAF that they do w/ Johnny he would have won the first two games and gone to OT in the 3rd.
The Pens could easily be 6-1 right now, and goaltending isn't the reason they're not.
For some perspective:
The Pens have scored 16 goals in Johnsons' 4 wins (4 G/G)
The Pens Have scored 7 goals in Fleury's 3 losses (2.3 G/G)
It's pretty hard to win when your team only scores 2.3 G/G. Had the Pens scored at the same pace for MAF that they do w/ Johnny he would have won the first two games and gone to OT in the 3rd.
The Pens could easily be 6-1 right now, and goaltending isn't the reason they're not.
BJ has a .950 save percentage. The Pens are giving up more shots with him in net. He has an under 2 GAA. There is no way Fleury would have replicated those numbers in the four wins.
Would we have won the four with Fleury? Probably not.
You also can never tell how those games were to turn out. If the Pens scored more maybe MAF lets in more, you just never know. All I know is he faced 14 shots one game, and let in one of the worst goals you can let in vs Montreal. If BJ was in net for those games, I'm fairly certain we win.
I think Fleury will bounce back, but I will not get my hopes up and I will still feel completely uneasy every time he is in the net.
BJ has a .950 save percentage. The Pens are giving up more shots with him in net. He has an under 2 GAA. There is no way Fleury would have replicated those numbers in the four wins.
Would we have won the four with Fleury? Probably not.
You also can never tell how those games were to turn out. If the Pens scored more maybe MAF lets in more, you just never know. All I know is he faced 14 shots one game, and let in one of the worst goals you can let in vs Montreal. If BJ was in net for those games, I'm fairly certain we win.
I think Fleury will bounce back, but I will not get my hopes up and I will still feel completely uneasy every time he is in the net.
Just because he sees more shots doesn't mean he has seen the same quality shots. Johnny has played very well but IMO Fleury has seen harder shots. This is mostly due with the fact that the Pens, as a team, have played much better over the past few games than they did in the first few.
Also, you keep bringing up the 4 goals in 14 shots but, again, fail to realize that all four goals very good scoring chances. Unless you think his performance would have been any better if he saved and extra 15 unscreened wristshots from the blueline?
For some perspective:
The Pens have scored 16 goals in Johnsons' 4 wins (4 G/G)
The Pens Have scored 7 goals in Fleury's 3 losses (2.3 G/G)
It's pretty hard to win when your team only scores 2.3 G/G.
....and one reason they're scoring so much more is that Johnson has been preventing the team from going a goal down in three of the four matches he has played, and kept opponents off the board when things have been tied.
When teams have to open up and chase the game, you get better chances going the other way.... and of course to add a little extra perspective to your stats above, two of those goals are empty net sweeteners.
Obviously there has been more offensive production to help Johnson, but keeping opponents to 2 goals or less which is what he has done, with more shots against, would also have earned the Pens points in all the three games Fleury has played.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASV 27
The Pens could easily be 6-1 right now, and goaltending isn't the reason they're not.
Actually, along with a bunk PP in our losses, it is exactly the reason we aren't 6-1.
Would we have won the four with Fleury? Probably not.
You also can never tell how those games were to turn out. If the Pens scored more maybe MAF lets in more, you just never know.
So it's okay for you to use your unknown outcomes to continue to bash Fleury but won't use your unknown outcomes to even potentially give Fleury the benefit of the doubt?
That makes all kinds of sense.
Your bit is really getting old. Let me guess, "You're just another Fleury slurper!"
I get a kick out of Johnson, he reminds me of a street hockey goalie, but he is playing unreal. Hopefully this fuels Fleury, but for now I would stay with Johnson.
So it's okay for you to use your unknown outcomes to continue to bash Fleury but won't use your unknown outcomes to even potentially give Fleury the benefit of the doubt?
That makes all kinds of sense.
Your bit is really getting old. Let me guess, "You're just another Fleury slurper!"
I just think Johnson is a better goaltender so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. You're right I shouldn't have used those situations of unknown outcomes and I never said we definitely would have won. I would be willing to bet we would have won at least one of those games with Johnson in net if it were somehow possible to see the outcome in an alternate universe.....but....
I'm bashing Fleury because bashing is warranted. You act like it's completely insane to dislike Fleury.
His ****** play has been going on for three years now and is just getting worse. I just don't see how he can be fixed at this point. People still have excuse for his play like "he was screened", "that was deflected", etc...
Why is Fleury in the bottom of the league in statistics every year now? Is it always his defensemans fault? He is the most skilled goalie in the league, but he can not put it all together. Hopefully he will this season but the soft, back breaking goals are in his DNA. That is going to be the toughest to cure.
I think what people need to realize is Fleury has been this bad before... step off the ledge. He WILL be unstoppable at some point this season and rattle off 6-10 straight wins. Id bet on it
You can tell Johnson is busting his ass and playing hard all game. That's what I love about the guy (aside from our common Zeppelin worship). He keeps it simple and makes the plays he's supposed to.
....and one reason they're scoring so much more is that Johnson has been preventing the team from going a goal down in three of the four matches he has played, and kept opponents off the board when things have been tied.
When teams have to open up and chase the game, you get better chances going the other way.... and of course to add a little extra perspective to your stats above, two of those goals are empty net sweeteners.
Once again, TR beats me to the punch.
Sure, Fleury has gotten less support than Johnson, but when you frequently give up the first goal of the game it's going to be that much more difficult to generate offense against good teams. When you make quality save after quality save and don't fall behind, eventually your team will gain the lead and run with it. That's exactly what has been happening with Johnson.
People need to stop blaming Fleury's struggles on the defense. That's all I ever hear after a bad stretch of games is that the defense is the problem. That may be part of the problem at times, but Johnson has faced just as many difficult shots as Fleury, if not more. Perhaps he's gotten lucky that the shooters aren't hitting their shots, but I'm getting a little tired of the defense getting the blame on every goal that comes as a result of a decent scoring opportunity. He's paid $5 million to make those difficult saves, yet it's been our $600k goalie doing that instead.
I'm all for riding the Brent Johnson hot streak but the way people want to be rid of Fleury or say he's no good when he's clearly proven otherwise by his play is just a farce.
He had a rough, injury riddled season last year. So did Malkin. Why is no one asking for his head when he's also had a sub par start to the year? Fleury was instrumental in the Penguins winning the Cup and reaching the Finals another year. If you've really blocked out all of the massive positives he did in those playoffs then there's no hope for you.
Yes, that Fleury was around more than a season ago but before his injury last year he was showing flashes of continuing that brilliance. We know as a fan base that he can play to that level. He has a case of the yips, which every goalie goes through. He will get better. To call for his head is a huge joke.
I think it will be telling to see who starts on Thursday against the Pred. A game that is more than likely going to be low scoring with very little room for error on the goalies part.
Then if the start goes to MAF and he gives up a softy that causes a loss, what the HCDB do then? Goalies heads are notoriously fragile, and though it is early it will be interesting to see how it plays out.
For some perspective:
The Pens have scored 16 goals in Johnsons' 4 wins (4 G/G)
The Pens Have scored 7 goals in Fleury's 3 losses (2.3 G/G)
It's pretty hard to win when your team only scores 2.3 G/G. Had the Pens scored at the same pace for MAF that they do w/ Johnny he would have won the first two games and gone to OT in the 3rd.
The Pens could easily be 6-1 right now, and goaltending isn't the reason they're not.
You do realize that it is easier to score goals when;
1) The first shot of the game doesn't go in
2) Your goaltender can handle the puck and ease tention on the defense
3) Generally, rebounds are controlled or put safely to the corner
4) The stops that should be made; are. Confidence then spreads throughout the lineup.
5) Your not giving up the first goal of the game.
