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Old
10-17-2010, 11:30 AM
  #1
Pittsburgh1776
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Concerns about Malkin

There seems to be a lot of discussion about Geno, what with the move to wing, PP position and so forth, as well as about his future here.

I'm a big-time Malkin fan, but I have to admit I don't like the way things are going. Malkin is not maturing as a person. See the article about his practice habits during the breakaway drill. This kind of moping and laziness is unacceptable for a player of his leadership potential and status on the team. This is just the latest example. To be clear, I am not questioning his passion. I have no doubt he cares. The mature response to failure is to work your ass off, to believe in yourself and that you will succeed and to let nothing shake that. The immature response is to mope and convince yourself that you're worthless and sink into self-hatred. This is what Malkin does now. If you want to know the biggest reason his game has taken a dive in the last two years, it's that this belief and swagger is gone. He doesn't believe anymore, and good luck fixing it. He has to fix it. I'm not optimistic.

He isn't developing as a player, and part of this is on the coaches. Malkin is being marginalized on this team, and I agree with KIRK that this is an untenable situation. If the Penguins think that moving Malkin to the wing is best for the team, then they need to trade him. The real reason they moved Malkin to wing is so that Staal could be number two center. If this is best for the team, then fine. However, Malkin isn't worth $8.7 million on the wing. He is so far away from where he was and should be, it's sad. Mr. Jiggfly has it right. The details, the discipline, and the foundation of his game are almost non-existent. I'm not overreacting to six games. I'm looking at the last year +. The flowing, unselfish dominance that he has displayed when on his game is mostly gone. Don't care what people say about NHL players changing positions, the fact is Malkin's center drives have been largely eliminated on the wing. How does this help? Is a flat-flooted, defensively not counted on and irresponsible player who is in the wrong position on the power play worth 8.7?

Malkin's foundation, that Dave King and then Therrien helped develop, is a two-way center who picks up the puck in his own zone, where is counted on, picks up speed in the middle of the ice, and then works the cycle and gives-and-go's. His line in the offensive zone is the ultimate expression of Bylsma's philosophy: sustained possession and pressure that leads to scoring chances. This is where he was two years ago. This is where he is when on his game, where he is when he is most effective, and where he is worth 8.7.

The plan for him at this time is not this. Where he is now, in his head, and, perhaps most importantly, in his heart, is not close to this.

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10-17-2010, 11:36 AM
  #2
SidGenoMario
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I agree that putting Malkin on wing is wasting his potential.

But I think that putting Malkin in the middle with his usual garbage wingers is also wasting his potential.

Just with the way the team is and will be built, a lot of players will be playing under their potential. Just the way it will be.

It'll be better when Staal comes back and Geno has a competent linemate. But then.. Staal isn't playing to his potential (Being elite defensively). Just a bad situation that we have to make the best of. I'm praying he just goes back to C.

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10-17-2010, 11:39 AM
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metalan2
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It's absolutely insane to have Malkin on the wing. It makes me sick to my stomach.

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10-17-2010, 11:42 AM
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Darth Vitale
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Geno's got the genetic Russian moodyness factor built into him for sure but I think you're getting close to chicken little territory with your "can't be fixed" stuff. The guy just goes through down periods sometimes, more so than Crosby (which maybe is an unfair comparison since Crosby is a borg and has no feelings).

I do agree playing him on the wing (or Staal, which would be even worse a waste of his particular skills) is stupid and as soon as we can stop doing it, the better off we and he will be. Hell, put Letestu on wing. At this point I believe that kid will be effective pretty much anywhere you put him.

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10-17-2010, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalan2 View Post
It's absolutely insane to have Malkin on the wing. It makes me sick to my stomach.
I'll bet you're dying alive too.

Can we at least save the hysterics until we see what Staal-Malkin looks like in any combination? Or is the fact that fantasy hockey leagues the world over are taking a hit, cause for the wailing and gnashing of teeth?

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10-17-2010, 11:46 AM
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AquaticBirdman
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I was totally against the idea when it was first suggested the Summer, and it looks as though my skepticism has turned out to be justified. Geno isn't a natural winger, and it's become VERY obvious during this first bunch of games. I say move him back to center where he can fluorish, and give Comrie a try on his wing instead.

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10-17-2010, 11:46 AM
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Jahodac
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Only way to fix the winger problem with a good winger is to trade Malkin or Staal. None of us want that so I want to see how he plays with Staal before I start worrying

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10-17-2010, 11:48 AM
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He'll be very good on the wing on that line. We've seen it before. But 15% of cap space is too much for very good. Look, if Tangradi-Staal-Malkin dominates, I will love it. I don't think the concerns are hysterical though. Malkin, for the past year, has not been worth the amount of money we are paying. That isn't just due to the coaching staff. It's his own immaturity as well. Not saying none of this will be addressed. Just don't like the way things have been headed.

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10-17-2010, 12:01 PM
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Jacob
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I'd say the cap space we are allocating to the goalie riding the pine is more concerning than Malkin's.

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10-17-2010, 12:02 PM
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People honestly think Malkin is going to stick to his side of the ice when Staal is back? Have you ever watched Malkin play? Really, the only point of him being on wing is so he doesn't have to take faceoffs and his defensive responsibility is less. It's not like he's ever been one to stick to his offensive position.

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10-17-2010, 12:10 PM
  #11
Sidney the Kidney
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Didn't Geno play the wing at the Olympics or World championships, with Datsyuk at center? He didn't look awkward or out of his element then, so I don't know why he would now.

Now obviously he doesn't have a centerman as good as Datsyuk playing with him, but if we're simply talking about how comfortable or adjusted he is at the wing, I don't see why his play at the Olympics doesn't translate to with us.

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10-17-2010, 12:11 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
I'd say the cap space we are allocating to the goalie riding the pine is more concerning than Malkin's.
THIS.

I'm a Fleury backer, but right now, he's the weak link on the team, not Malkin.

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10-17-2010, 12:19 PM
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Coach John McGuirk
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I don't think Malkin is playing poorly. He's not racking up the points, but he's not playing like Fedotenko out there.

He needs to shoot more, shoot everybody.

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10-17-2010, 12:26 PM
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Crosberry87
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If they want Staal or Geno to play wing when Staal returns, then I'm all for the experiment. But right now its borderline retarded. DB needs to move him back till then.

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10-17-2010, 12:29 PM
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deakka
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Fedotenko isnt paid like Malkin on the other hand either...


Last edited by deakka: 10-17-2010 at 12:36 PM.
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Old
10-17-2010, 12:33 PM
  #16
JTG
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I don't think Geno has been playing poorly at all. He has been one of our better offensive players.

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10-17-2010, 12:38 PM
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WVP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
I don't think Geno has been playing poorly at all. He has been one of our better offensive players.
I think so too.

Also a bit tired of the "woe is Malkin" sentiment around here....

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10-17-2010, 12:40 PM
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I really do not see anything different in the way Malkin is playing 'now that he is on the wing' to when he was 'playing the center position'. He is not taking as many FO's but other than that he seems to be the one controlling play with his line, which is the way it should be.

Could someone who understands the game more than me explain to me what he is doing differently now that 'he is on the wing'. This is a serious question!!

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10-17-2010, 12:41 PM
  #19
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EDM for sure would offer up some decent wingers and cap friendly youth for either Malkin or Staal.

It's a matter of stocking and replenishing the talent on the wings, something EDM has a surplus of.

The first trip to the finals Pitt had lot's of good solid depth, and that thinned out a little when they got raises.

Then it happened again after the cup.

It's obvious it is happening and unavoidable that at some point you need to replenish the depth and moving one of Staal or Malkin is how it can be done.

I pointed this out two years ago, but it wasn't a popular message then.

The time has come where a guy has to be picked as the number two. (Or at least have to start seriously thinking about it).

Malkin is a guy who could get a young prospect to play with Sid and upgrades on the 2nd line.

EDM is probably the team that could offer the most right now, and the team most willing to deal (and pay the price) for a guy like malkin.

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10-17-2010, 12:43 PM
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MtlPenFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkochalek View Post
Geno's got the genetic Russian moodyness factor built into him for sure but I think you're getting close to chicken little territory with your "can't be fixed" stuff. The guy just goes through down periods sometimes, more so than Crosby (which maybe is an unfair comparison since Crosby is a borg and has no feelings).

I do agree playing him on the wing (or Staal, which would be even worse a waste of his particular skills) is stupid and as soon as we can stop doing it, the better off we and he will be. Hell, put Letestu on wing. At this point I believe that kid will be effective pretty much anywhere you put him.
It's such a ridiculous stereotype, but it's really tough to argue against when you see it time and again with some of these guys.

I beg some of you to go back to the Cup run like I mentioned yesterday. Rewatch some of those games if you can, particularly game 3 against Washington, the hat trick game against Carolina, and games 4 and 6 against Detroit.

Besides getting to enjoy some memories, you'll see that when Geno wants, he is better than Sid and it doesn't matter who he plays with.

What you'll also realize is that the line combos were as ****ed as they are now, especially when we dressed 7 D after Gonch got hurt. The only difference is we won the Cup back then, so people are under the impression that TOI was better distributed, which is nonsense. With your own eyes you'll see Geno with Satan and Fedetenko in game 3 against Corolina and dominate. Dupuis and Feds in game 6 versus Detroit and dominate. Each goal in the hat trick game against Carolina was with different linemates.

My point if you actually read this far? Geno didn't give a flying **** who he was playing with, because at that time he believed he was the best player in the world, and he acted like it. He'd gallop up the middle, streak down the left side, fly down the right, winger/center designation be damned. It was his game, his puck and he was only letting the others participate.

I hated Bill Guerin more than anything, but Sid went out there last year and scored 50 goals and 100 points again while carrying him and a broken down Kunitz on his back for much of the year, including round 1 against the Sens. It's up to Geno, who's at least paid as an equal, to do the same.

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10-17-2010, 12:51 PM
  #21
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Let's see how the things will turn if he plays with Staal. That could be better than some think. The idea of trading Geno is very prematured to me. I like the Cooke-Staal-Kennedy line.
I don't like the idea of the Pens playing against Geno and 2 really good wingers, maybe 6 time in a season tough

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10-17-2010, 01:02 PM
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M0NTY26
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I get that Malkin sucks at faceoffs, so the team thinks someone that's more successful should take the faceoffs for Geno's line. Personally, I think he should just practice at it like Crosby did and become dominate. Crosby sucked at faceoffs, too, at one point.

What I don't understand is the claim that moving him to wing allows him less defensive responsibilities. Just a couple years ago, Geno lead the league in take-aways. He was brilliant at reading a play and had a great stick, resulting in the most take-aways in the entire league. He beat out Datsyuk.

Right now, do I think Staal is better defensively? For sure, but I think Malkin can be Datsyuk good defensively and Malkin 08-09 good offensively.

Why the coaching staff would rather move him to a position where he doesn't have to improve on two areas of his game, instead of having him improve, baffles me. As much as I like Bylsma as a person and as much as the board has started to target his coaching this season, I truly do think most of us can agree a lot of the criticism is warranted.

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10-17-2010, 01:15 PM
  #23
TravisUlrich
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I like Malkin on RW and I like how Malkin is playing.

He's 3rd in the NHL in shots (right behind Parise and Crosby), he's doing he's controlling the play in the offensive zone, and he's consistently dangerous. The only things I don't like is that his shooting percentage is 3.8% and he does have the odd brainfart but that's just par for the course with Malkin: He makes 9 amazing plays for every brain fart. I'll take that, so really it's just the shooting percentage.

Malkin belongs on the RW. He's terrible on the draw and when Staal comes back Geno's going to have a lot of fun just worrying about being an offensive force while Jordan does all the dirty work.

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10-17-2010, 01:24 PM
  #24
TravisUlrich
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I think so too.

Also a bit tired of the "woe is Malkin" sentiment around here...
I get this too. God help us if Bylsma ever decides to move Tangradi onto Crosby's wing. Some around here will act as if Geno is being separated from his biological son.

Even before Staal comes back, Geno will get it together and maybe even lead our team in scoring.

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10-17-2010, 01:26 PM
  #25
ManInTheBox
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Staal and Malkin are both great centres. There is a difference in style however. My personal position is that they should prove to be a force paired together. They need a guy to crash the net, me thinks.

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