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Old
10-18-2010, 09:29 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
I hope you're right, CW. BTW, question: As discussed, we have seen Geno galloping again this season, even on the wing. BUT, I'd make two points about that: One, he's not doing it as much. Two-- and this is the big one for me-- he's doing a lot of it because he wheels back with the puck and then restarts the breakout that way. Doesn't that give the defense a chance to set up? It's something that I'll keep watching. Still think adjusting the breakout-- or adding a breakout-- would help.

Also, why do so many arguments come back to "this is what happened in '09"? There really are three critical differences with '09: It was a different system. Max Talbot was the linemate, and we all know how he played in those 16 games. And, Tony Granato, not Tom Fitzgerald, is in charge of the forwards . . . compare what Fitzie did with the Feds-Geno-Max line after 2 periods against Wash in game 3 two years ago and what Granato did last year in game 5 against the Habs when Geno finally was flying again with Max and Duper (hint: Fitzie rode it, Granato flipped Dupuis and Guerin).

I suppose that we'll see here soon enough, but a critical look at how Geno has played under DB, even when healthy, tells me that, outside of 16 games-- admittedly 16 perfectly timed games-- his play has not been as good.
And the difference with all of last year is that Malkin was fatigued, injured, and playing on a line with players far less complimentary and compatible than Tangradi/Comrie/Letestu/Staal/hot Talbot/hot Feds. He literally had the worst wingers of any star in the league; this year, he won't.

That's huge. '09-'10 was a virtual write-off for Malkin, so it's more than a little disingenuous to use that period as a variable-free evaluator of how DB's decisions affect EM's effectiveness. Much moreso than the '09 stretch run, when Bylsma introduced aggressive elements that clearly helped Geno's production.

As for the mixing up lines, I think that's a little bit of nitpicking. No two situations are alike, and if Fitz had been in charge of the forwards in that frustrating Habs series, he might've made the same move. We don't exactly have a huge sample size with Fitzgerald, and he wasn't available anyway. He's like the lead singer who died young.

At any rate, we should be giving DB a clean slate now. With all the success he's had, he deserves a little rope.

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Old
10-18-2010, 10:07 AM
  #102
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We're all overlooking the obvious: Mama Malkin has not been in the Burgh lately right? Or is it just that she hasn't been making the Borscht? Geno draws his strength from Mama's Home Cookin' ™.

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10-18-2010, 12:35 PM
  #103
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Yeah, it's her fault we lost last season. His parents, if I remember correctly, weren't in town at all, or were here at the tail end of our run.

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10-18-2010, 12:37 PM
  #104
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The easy answer: not enough samogon.

What is samogon, you (didn't) ask? Well, glad to tell you. It's...

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10-18-2010, 12:39 PM
  #105
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I am very concerned about Crosby and especially Malkin, in the first 6 games and the playoffs last year, you can see the frustration in them, that their linemates cannot produce, cant score goals, cant pass and play and we're just wasting their talent.

In Toronto, the media has blasted Shero for not fully utilizing these two stars and if we cant utilize these guys, we might have to trade Malkin because he is not playing like the third best player in the world, he needs the excitement back when he had Sykora and Malone...Tangradi and Comrie are good players but he needs better right now

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10-18-2010, 12:43 PM
  #106
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The Toronto media should spend more time asking why the Leafs haven't won anything since the the Beatles released Sgt. Peppers'.

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10-18-2010, 12:46 PM
  #107
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I've always thought that since Malkin is such a soft minded guy (not stupid...emotional)...he needs energy guys on his line to stir the pot so that he can get into the game. If he's playing with passive line mates who don't get into the corners and mix it up....he plays unenthusiastically.

Malone used to do that.

Gradi is the new Malone...so we'll see how these two get along once the Pens are in full swing and they get used to each other and most importantly Staal is back. I'm not worried at all. Malkin will retake his spot in the top 3 and silence the critics. You can bank on that.

Also, Staal will prove to the naysayers that he is a legit top 6 guy.

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10-18-2010, 12:46 PM
  #108
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Handshake dont you agree though, were wasting these guys talent, and it was evident last year against Montreal, you attempt to shutdown Malkin and Crosby and no one else can get any offense going. I miss the Hossa, Malone, Sykora team

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10-18-2010, 12:47 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HandshakeLine View Post
The Toronto media should spend more time asking why the Leafs haven't won anything since the the Beatles released Sgt. Peppers'.
HA, so true

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10-18-2010, 12:48 PM
  #110
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I have a very hard taking anything seriously, media wise, that comes from north of the border in regards to hockey. Bob McKenzie about the only person I'll listen to.

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10-18-2010, 12:55 PM
  #111
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yeah Mike Milbury and Barry Melrose are pretty good, what about Darren Milard

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10-18-2010, 12:59 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by kahlon66 View Post
Handshake dont you agree though, were wasting these guys talent, and it was evident last year against Montreal, you attempt to shutdown Malkin and Crosby and no one else can get any offense going. I miss the Hossa, Malone, Sykora team
There's a lot of factors that came into play last year. I'm running off to class now, but I can't see how Shero gets blasted for not using his talent well, when GMGM in Washington has an offensively-loaded roster and had the same problem with the Habs.

If anything, the problem is less with the personnel, and more with the bench staff.

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10-18-2010, 01:25 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
And the difference with all of last year is that Malkin was fatigued, injured, and playing on a line with players far less complimentary and compatible than Tangradi/Comrie/Letestu/Staal/hot Talbot/hot Feds. He literally had the worst wingers of any star in the league; this year, he won't.

That's huge. '09-'10 was a virtual write-off for Malkin, so it's more than a little disingenuous to use that period as a variable-free evaluator of how DB's decisions affect EM's effectiveness. Much moreso than the '09 stretch run, when Bylsma introduced aggressive elements that clearly helped Geno's production.

As for the mixing up lines, I think that's a little bit of nitpicking. No two situations are alike, and if Fitz had been in charge of the forwards in that frustrating Habs series, he might've made the same move. We don't exactly have a huge sample size with Fitzgerald, and he wasn't available anyway. He's like the lead singer who died young.

At any rate, we should be giving DB a clean slate now. With all the success he's had, he deserves a little rope.
CW, my argument about Fitz is that the same move WAS made the year before in game 3 against the Caps. Ergo, Feds-Malkin-Talbot. Sid was quiet that game. But, Malkin was really going, and Fitz never touched that line and rotated Malkin into the other lines for some extra shifts. Flash forward a year to game 5 against the Habs. Same story for 2 periods, but then Granato broke up the Talbot-Malkin-Dupuis line despite how Malkin finally was playing and Guerined him.

And, yeah, I get too how the deck has been stacked against him. Just wonder if the thing to do is to stack it further against him (having him play on Letestu's or Comrie's wing until Staal returns and his new PP position) or if it is to make due with what you've got, have him play center for now, and just get him a steady diet of minutes playing on all of the lines at different times.

CW, I still think the steady diet of consistent shifts is another big thing.

As for DB, sorry to say, but shelf lives are short in the NHL for coaches. See Therrien, M. Got to game 6 of the finals, had an injury situation that gave him worse personnel to work with than DB, and he didn't make it 6 months. DB already got a full year of less than adequate coaching last year. You can write it off. When you've got a limited window of 4 years with this team's talent, I don't think you've got that luxury. But, I suppose we'll agree to disagree on that one.

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10-18-2010, 01:28 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Crozbar View Post
Really I agree with your assessment Kirk; this has always been the solution to me in terms of getting Malkin AND Staal the minutes they need -- but I don't know, it's too much line management for Db to rotate Malkin like that?
Personally, I hope to see the day that this team has a coaching staff worthy of its talent. Until then . . .

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10-18-2010, 04:57 PM
  #115
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CW, my argument about Fitz is that the same move WAS made the year before in game 3 against the Caps. Ergo, Feds-Malkin-Talbot. Sid was quiet that game. But, Malkin was really going, and Fitz never touched that line and rotated Malkin into the other lines for some extra shifts. Flash forward a year to game 5 against the Habs. Same story for 2 periods, but then Granato broke up the Talbot-Malkin-Dupuis line despite how Malkin finally was playing and Guerined him.
I know. But the Habs aren't the Caps. The two situations aren't necessarily analogous, and we don't have a body of work from Fitzgerald suggesting that's the move he'd make every time Malkin's hot and Sid's struggling. Coaching isn't that static and predictable.

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And, yeah, I get too how the deck has been stacked against him. Just wonder if the thing to do is to stack it further against him (having him play on Letestu's or Comrie's wing until Staal returns and his new PP position) or if it is to make due with what you've got, have him play center for now, and just get him a steady diet of minutes playing on all of the lines at different times.

CW, I still think the steady diet of consistent shifts is another big thing.

As for DB, sorry to say, but shelf lives are short in the NHL for coaches. See Therrien, M. Got to game 6 of the finals, had an injury situation that gave him worse personnel to work with than DB, and he didn't make it 6 months. DB already got a full year of less than adequate coaching last year. You can write it off. When you've got a limited window of 4 years with this team's talent, I don't think you've got that luxury. But, I suppose we'll agree to disagree on that one.
I just don't think the coaching last year was the atrocity some seem to think. The Pens made it to within a game of the ECF with Malkin and Fleury playing well below par, Staal injured, and the deadline winger pickup stinking up the joint, yet they were still dominating most games vs. the Habs. Halak and a lack of a real net-front presence is what hurt us, and Bylsma controls neither.

But like you say, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I have a feeling that people will buck up when Malkin starts producing shortly, and when he really hits his stride on Staal's wing.

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10-18-2010, 05:15 PM
  #116
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I personally feel Malkin has looked fine six games into the season; he's skating well and has been good on the forecheck.

The knock on Malkin before was that he wore down and had nothing left in the tank come playoffs. Perhaps he, and Crosby for that matter have learned to conserve themselves a little at the start of the season. If those who have an issue with his play now are still worried into January, then perhaps we all would have reason to worry.

I agree that Malkin cannot live up to his fullest potential at wing because he can be a dominant two way player (best in the world and should be used to the PK as well). Also, it is in the teams best interest to have the 3 center depth as they have in the past, but in the mean time it seems we have to deal with it. He will be better as he becomes accustomed to the position and starts utilizing his line-mates better.

As pointed out before, he is among the league leaders in shots on net. They will eventually start going in. The only thing that can hurt his production now (mainly goal scoring) is the power play set up; but if Crosby can continue to get his shots on net from the left side, then the PP will be better with Malkin on point.

As far as the analysis on Malkin's mental state during games - he does get frusted at times because he knows what he is capable of. It is a natural thing if you know you are good at something and are having a bad go of it, you are going to be frustrated. It is up to Evgeni and the coaching staff to keep him focused on what he is doing next, not the past.

As a side note:
Malkin had a had trick at home against Ottawa last year; I wouldn't be surprised if he netted a couple tonight.

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10-18-2010, 11:45 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by HandshakeLine View Post
The Toronto media should spend more time asking why the Leafs haven't won anything since the the Beatles released Sgt. Peppers'.
Good one

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10-18-2010, 11:46 PM
  #118
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Fluery 5m

Others just under 4m koonz, tang, Brooks. Zeeb. Staal


That's a quick 6 who come to mind right away when I hear we need cap space.... Im sure another 10 or so woulnt br hard to come up with either

Besides, what has Staal shown that people here think he make a good 2nd line center. When he's been put there on trial basis... He hasn't really preformed that well. I want to see what happens this year with them together cause they've shown some good chemistry together

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10-19-2010, 09:52 AM
  #119
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We need to trade Geno now, while he's hot! Trade value = maximized.

Nothing but trouble, that lazy Russian! We need balance!

Ottawa gets:
Geno

Pens get:
Gonch (getting teary-eyed)
Michalek (brothers on the same team - awsumz!)
Elliot & Leclaire (surely one of them won't suck with our D!)
Foligno (ehhh, Niii-Ick!)

Seems totally fair to me.

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10-19-2010, 10:39 AM
  #120
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Remember, guys, the other Michalek brother is easily worth Staal alone, so we might have to throw in Crosby and a Jagr rookie card for the whole package.

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10-19-2010, 12:27 PM
  #121
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If you think that Malkin has been "good" or "ok" or "fine" this year so far, I really have to question what you've been watching.

Constant bonehead passes to nobody, trying to deke through the entire team when it makes no sense, lack of effort, sulking etc. We've seen it all before and it's as bad now as it's ever been. He is worth less than half of his salary right now and it has nothing to do with position or wingers or any of those excuses. He's playing like **** and he doesn't use his brain.

Stop making dumb decisions, that's really all he needs to do.

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10-19-2010, 12:58 PM
  #122
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Watching from a Sens perspective, he simply looks sad or uninterested...I think he is missing Gonchar.

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10-19-2010, 12:59 PM
  #123
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There's a lot of factors that came into play last year. I'm running off to class now, but I can't see how Shero gets blasted for not using his talent well, when GMGM in Washington has an offensively-loaded roster and had the same problem with the Habs.

If anything, the problem is less with the personnel, and more with the bench staff.
It had to do with their goalie, pointe finale.

If you thought we had a fair of zone time against the Habs, the Caps series was even worse. Montreal had trouble getting past center most of the series, and that's including the games they won. The Caps flat out dominated that series.

I listen to sports radio all day here, and everyone and their mother *****ed about how they hated Jacques Martin's system: sit back, defend, defend some more, hope your goalie stops 40 shots and pray for opportunistic scoring. EVERY day they panned Gainey for hiring this guy and despised his passive system.

Funny how because Halak played out of his mind for two series, that same system that everyone hated was suddenly genius. Then when Halak became a mere mortal and it was Leighton's turn to become George Vezina, suddenly Martin couldn't coach again.

Sometimes results are truly as simple as how well your goalie is playing. Switch Halak for Fleury, at least the way they played last spring, and it's at most a 5 game series for the Pens.

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10-19-2010, 01:54 PM
  #124
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The obvious solution is to trade Sid.

Then Malkin can play his true position as the teams number one, AND Staal can be the no.2. Lets be honest here, that's what everyone's concerned about. Sid is the problem, that puppy kicking, locker room cancer. That prima donna, demands L1 Center duties, the half boards on the PP, why can't HE play on Staal's wing?

Sidney, Sidney, Sidneeeeyyy!

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10-19-2010, 04:02 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Mr Wu View Post
If you think that Malkin has been "good" or "ok" or "fine" this year so far, I really have to question what you've been watching.

Constant bonehead passes to nobody, trying to deke through the entire team when it makes no sense, lack of effort, sulking etc. We've seen it all before and it's as bad now as it's ever been. He is worth less than half of his salary right now and it has nothing to do with position or wingers or any of those excuses. He's playing like **** and he doesn't use his brain.

Stop making dumb decisions, that's really all he needs to do.
how has sid been

espceically before the philly game saturday?

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