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Time to change up the line combos?

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Old
10-17-2010, 04:01 PM
  #26
FlyHigh
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A few points.

1) It's not just that Carter and Richards suck together, it's that they're both our best ES players by far (the next best might be JVR) and this is rendering them both completely ineffective.

2) The whole "Giroux is more productive at C" thing HAS to stop. I mean, his last 20 regular games at C, he has 4 ES points which is a pittance for such a talented player. 5 games at C this year with legit talent, he has 1 point and the chances haven't exactly been plentiful. It doesn't work offensively and he certainly doesn't work defensively. If Giroux OR Briere costs us goals, we might be able to deal with it, but we can't when they BOTH are.

3) I said this last night, but I am vehemently opposed to putting Richards with Zherdev. Zherdev screws up from a number of angles, but I certainly do not want our best defensive forward saddled with the laziest player on our roster when he's going up against Crosby, Kovalchuk, and Gaborik.

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Old
10-17-2010, 04:45 PM
  #27
IceHot
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Carter, Briere, Leino
JVR, Giroux, Zherdev
Hartnell, Richards, Carcillo
Powe, Betts, ?best defensive forward call up we got?

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Old
10-17-2010, 04:55 PM
  #28
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I find that to be best, offensive and bringing the best out of someone, I think that Richards, Carter, Briere and Betts should be our 4 centers, no question, if you ask me. They know what they are doing at center better. They are more comfortable there and we all know Giroux can play wing just fine.

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10-17-2010, 04:58 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
I find that to be best, offensive and bringing the best out of someone, I think that Richards, Carter, Briere and Betts should be our 4 centers, no question, if you ask me. They know what they are doing at center better. They are more comfortable there and we all know Giroux can play wing just fine.
It seems to be the most rational course... it's also how you get Giroux top 6 minutes. Frankly, I wish we had a true no. 3 center, so we could take advantage of both Briere (who was absolutely fine on the wing last year, despite the popular misconception) and Giroux on the wing with Richards and Carter.

However, this whole Carcillo/Nodl/whatever-Richards-Carter thing with Briere/JVR/Giroux moonlighting with them every game is ridiculous.

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10-17-2010, 04:59 PM
  #30
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Carter on the wing confuses him and Briere seems to do average on the wing with either Carter, not sure about Richards though. But yeah, we need to act with 3 first line centers on our top 3 lines.

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10-17-2010, 05:04 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Carter on the wing confuses him and Briere seems to do average on the wing with either Carter, not sure about Richards though. But yeah, we need to act with 3 first line centers on our top 3 lines.
Like I said, Carter excels when he is counting on no one and leads his line. Give him his own line.

You put Giroux and JVR with Richards:

vanRiemsdyk - Richards - Giroux

You keep Briere's line together:

Hartnell - Briere - Leino

And you give Carter the deadweight, since it won't matter much, and throw Zherdev on the wing:

Carcillo/Powe/Nodl/Maroon - Carter - Zherdev

Then for the PP, you get Richards off the point:

xxxxx - Richards - Giroux
Pronger - Timonen

xxxxx - Carter - Briere
Meszaros - Carle

xxxxx = rotation of Zherdev, Hartnell, vanRiemsdyk, Leino

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Old
10-17-2010, 05:05 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Carter on the wing confuses him and Briere seems to do average on the wing with either Carter, not sure about Richards though. But yeah, we need to act with 3 first line centers on our top 3 lines.
Briere's point production last year, whilst on the wing the majority of the season, was dead on what he's produced on average throughout his career (even his first year here when he was a center). Everyone gets confused by his blow up years in Buffalo (which I just can't see us replicating here). The rules have changed for the worse (from Briere's perspective) since then... game has tightened up again. He can and is a solid point producer at even strength, and can be a stellar PP performer (that's actually where he struggled last year).

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Old
10-17-2010, 06:25 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
A few points.

1) It's not just that Carter and Richards suck together, it's that they're both our best ES players by far (the next best might be JVR) and this is rendering them both completely ineffective.

2) The whole "Giroux is more productive at C" thing HAS to stop. I mean, his last 20 regular games at C, he has 4 ES points which is a pittance for such a talented player. 5 games at C this year with legit talent, he has 1 point and the chances haven't exactly been plentiful. It doesn't work offensively and he certainly doesn't work defensively. If Giroux OR Briere costs us goals, we might be able to deal with it, but we can't when they BOTH are.

3) I said this last night, but I am vehemently opposed to putting Richards with Zherdev. Zherdev screws up from a number of angles, but I certainly do not want our best defensive forward saddled with the laziest player on our roster when he's going up against Crosby, Kovalchuk, and Gaborik.
Agree.

The Flyers best pure goal scorers are Carter, Briere, and JVR. Zherdev can out the ouck in the net but I think he is more of a play maker then sniper (some Rags fans have told me the same thing). You have to put your best scorers in a position to score goals.

Their best play makers are Giroux, Richards, Zherdev, and Leino.
Grinders Hartnell, Carcillo (in the top 9).

Giroux may be better at center then wing but it's not like it's a significant difference.

Richards should never have Z, Leino, or Briere on his line because he is out there against the other teams top line most nights.

JVR- Richards - Giroux = JVR needs some players to get him sone easy goals so he can get rolling.

Hartnell - Briere - Leino = I don't think they need to stay together because of the playoffs but I think Briere can carry a line by himself and the other two work well along the boards.

Carcillo - Carter - Zherdev = Carter can get his own shots but Zherdev makes really nice outlet passes that can spring him. Carcillo can do the dirty work and hopefully have afew bounce in off off him.

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Old
10-17-2010, 06:29 PM
  #34
chimrichalds18
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I think another thing that needs mentioning is we've lost two solid PKers from last year: Gagne and Lappy. I think Powe can fill pretty well for one of them, but we're still leaning on Richards a lot, and I think the whole idea should be lightening his load. I'm not saying he shouldn't PK -- he's clearly a huge asset that needs to be used -- but in a game like last night, we basically saw Richards, Giroux, Betts, and Powe killing.

We need to do better than that upfront. Carter played 2:36 on the PK...Richards played double that...and after Carter, no other forward killed. We're not gonna win games later on with our best players (Carter, Richards, Giroux) spending a ton of time killing penalties. Problem is...our forward corps is set. Shelley ain't gonna kill penalties. Briere's not either. I think you gotta throw JVR into the mix like we did with Giroux last year.

Or just cut back on penalties.

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10-17-2010, 06:35 PM
  #35
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The Hartnell - Briere - Leino line has been great but I think they need to be split up for the other lines to play better. We could have something like:

JVR - Richards- Carcillo
Leino - Carter - Briere
Hartnell - Giroux - Zherdev
Shelley - Betts - Powe

Then have Giroux or Zherdev or whoever is playing a good game have some playing time in Carcillo's spot after the first and give Carcillo sometime in Shelley's spot.

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Old
10-17-2010, 06:37 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
Or just cut back on penalties.
We have a winner!

That said, the officials weren't out to do us any favors last night.

Sending Richards on a falsified penalty at the end of the 2nd was the turning point in the game last night and marked our eventual downfall.

Followed by other phantom calls such as the mystery slash among others, and there's no way we can win that game.

Sometimes cutting back on penalties isn't easy. I'm not saying the refs decisively cost us the game, but it'd be pretty hard to prove they didn't cost us a chance at winning.

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Old
10-17-2010, 08:18 PM
  #37
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Giroux - Carter - Briere
JVR - Richards - Zherdev
Leino - Powe - Hartnell
Carcillo - Betts - Shelley

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10-17-2010, 08:19 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by zeke View Post


Giroux - Carter - Briere
JVR - Richards - Zherdev
Leino - Powe - Hartnell
Carcillo - Betts - Shelley
I was about to say "wtf" and then realized it was you...

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Old
10-17-2010, 08:25 PM
  #39
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meh. maybe some Flyers fans are sick of sticking the likes of Carcillo or Nodl up top just for the idea of depth, and would be happy to stack it on up on the top two lines.

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10-17-2010, 08:38 PM
  #40
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meh. maybe some Flyers fans are sick of sticking the likes of Carcillo or Nodl up top just for the idea of depth, and would be happy to stack it on up on the top two lines.
I actually doubt that some Flyers fans want to do that because most Flyers fans here have common sense.

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10-17-2010, 08:55 PM
  #41
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yeah, stacking the top two lines is crazy talk, but playing Carcillo and Nodl on the top line is common sense.

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10-17-2010, 09:52 PM
  #42
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yeah, stacking the top two lines is crazy talk, but playing Carcillo and Nodl on the top line is common sense.
Powe is an excellent 4th liner. Mediocre 3rd line wing, and TERRIBLE 3rd line center.

While I would prefer to stack the top 6, you need to have signed an actual 3rd line center to accomplish that... which Holmgren isn't interested in doing for whatever reason.

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Old
10-17-2010, 10:11 PM
  #43
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I watched some of the finals only. One thing I seem to remember is Giroux playing on the right boards during their PP, whereas with the flyers he is not.
I just had to say your avatar is awesome

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Old
10-18-2010, 02:31 AM
  #44
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I have Bobrovsky in one of my fantasy leagues...was wondering if u guys think he will play a majority of the game or will he split time with Boucher? I was thinking about dropping him to pick up ATL's Mason. Thanks

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Old
10-18-2010, 07:13 AM
  #45
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Carter on LW/RW just does not work. Enough of that already.

Maroon/Nodl/Hartnell Richards Zherdev
Lieno Briere Hartnell/Nodl
JVR Carter Giroux
Carcillo Betts Powe
Shelley



Shelley plays only against teams like Toronto. I do not even think we need him against NYR because they are all injured. I doubt Boogaard will be skating around looking to get penalized.

Our head coach better do somethign about penalties. Enough already.

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Old
10-18-2010, 07:14 AM
  #46
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I have Bobrovsky in one of my fantasy leagues...was wondering if u guys think he will play a majority of the game or will he split time with Boucher? I was thinking about dropping him to pick up ATL's Mason. Thanks
They'll be splitting the duty, atleast for now. Things will get complicated once Leighton returns.

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Old
10-18-2010, 08:48 AM
  #47
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A couple of things are for certain, Carter and Richards need to step up and come to play. Only five games in but the lack of getting it done is tiresome. Carter with 2-1-3pts and a minus 3, yes minus 3. Richards 0-3-3pts and a -2. And hey Zherdev, the regular season started, catch up. I like to see a little more continuity than 5 games to change things up so let's just say after 10 games if things are still the same a change might be in the works. What I do not understand is why this team seems to play like they deserve to win just by showing up....but I digress......:

JvR-Carter-Zherdev
Leino-Giroux-Briere
Powe-Richards-Hartnell
Shelley-Betts-Carcillo

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Old
10-18-2010, 08:49 AM
  #48
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JvR-Carter-Zherdev
Leino-Giroux-Briere
Powe-Richards-Hartnell
Shelley-Betts-Carcillo
Ewww. For the love of god, please call up someone with offensive talent to play the 9th.

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Old
10-18-2010, 09:02 AM
  #49
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Carter on LW/RW just does not work. Enough of that already.

Maroon/Nodl/Hartnell Richards Zherdev
Lieno Briere Hartnell/Nodl
JVR Carter Giroux
Carcillo Betts Powe
Shelley



Shelley plays only against teams like Toronto. I do not even think we need him against NYR because they are all injured. I doubt Boogaard will be skating around looking to get penalized.

Our head coach better do somethign about penalties. Enough already.
Totally disagree about moving Giroux on a wing with Carter. I am even skeptical of putting JvR there, but it may give Carter someone who will actually go in along the boards and fight for a puck or two.....I guess maybe the best possibility could be this now that I think about it.....:

JvR-Giroux-Zherdev: Time for Zherdev to kick it up a little bit, playing with possibly the two best Flyers over the first five games should give a good idea as to whether Zherdev is going to stick.

Leino-Richards-Briere: Leino and Briere seem to have some chemistry, Richards could help with a change of scenery.

Powe-Carter-Hartnell: Since Carter can do it all himself, give him two guys who will basically do the dirty work.

Shelley-Betts-Carcillo: Botton line is Carcillo needs to be on the 4th line for now, get his game going and see if maybe he can earn some more minutes.

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Old
10-18-2010, 09:05 AM
  #50
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I am almost ready to throw Bartulis up there, being a former winger and all!

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