There's a reason I say "in my opinion." I obviously take scouting, and other such opinions into account, but remember there have been 1st overalls that never make an impact in the NHL at all. Scouting isn't always perfect. I do think they have it wrong with RNH. It's kind of beating a dead horse, but I'm sure that there were people who said Daigle was gonna flop way back when and I'm sure that person got the same treatment. I will have no problem admitting I was wrong when and if RNH becomes a superstar player in the NHL.
I mean really, it's just my opinion. I've supported it with statistics, first hand viewing and other evidence that I've said leads ME to believe this. If you have a problem with what I'm saying that's fine but instead of just going back and saying "BUT SCOUTS -----" form your own opinions.
Daigle flopped because he didn't give a **** and was a dummy. Scoutings moved past that. In 1993 Phil Kessel would have went 1st overall....scouts are much more in tune with the characters they are picking now then ever.
Either way, Daigle busting doesn't change the fact that at 18 his upside was immense. The scouts aren't just making it up that his skating is exceptional, he's elusive, his vision is outstanding and his puck control and release are both high end as well. If in 5 years he turns out to be a flop...you can't really attribute that to his upside not being high.
Strome is the best 1 on 1 player hands down in this draft. Also the best 1 time shot BY FAR.
But I don't think he is going any higher than 5 or 6. Him and Huberdeau could be the best forwards toc ome out of this draft.
Is he the best 1 on 1 player in the draft because he made that highlight real goal against Plymouth or have you actually watched him enough to see him beating players every night.
Someone that does watch these players regularly recently said RNH is where he is because he's the only player beating players 1 on 1 consistently in the entire draft.
I'm just clarifying that you're sure you're using the right word to describe your analysis of RNH.
I was sort of giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were giving more of a safe estimate of what he'll be, rather than meaning that's his "upside", which generally tends to mean "if he reaches his ceiling, this is his high end potential".
If you really think that's his upside, hey, all the power to you if you end up being right. But you're also going to hear it quite a bit if Nugent-Hopkins tops that "upside" total before he's even 22 years old.
I'm well aware of the ramifications that my statements could hold. But yes, I believe that if RNH plays to the best of his ability and reaches his potential in the NHL he'll be a 65 point powerplay specialist. I just don't see the potential there that he's being touted for (and yes, this is after watching his games, highlights, and of course statistical analysis.)
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It's fine that you think Strome will be better, it's just hilarious that you give no respect to him. A first overall pick isn't projected to have an upside of 55-65 points.
You're right, if I thought he was worthy of 1st overall I wouldn't project him that way. However, I'm sure the people that rank him 1st overall don't think that he has that kind of upside.
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The difference between RNH and Strome is big, by all accounts. Everybody agrees that he is in the Top 3 and Strome isn't. RNH basically turned that franchise around since he came into the league. Strome plays with some very good players.
I've never heard any scout, or analyst, say that there's a big difference between any of the top prospects of this draft.
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Also, Couturier isn't even in the discussion for first overall LOL.
Who has spent more time ranked 1st overall Couturier or RNH? What has happened that has changed that? From accomplishments to changes in projection?
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I find your "opinion" is based on the fact that Strome is a bit more flashy because of his slap shot, or because you have never seen RNH and only like Strome because you have seen him more and you are biased.
Strome isn't more flashy, really. The fact that you think that leads me to believe that you haven't seen either of them play. RNH has one youtube highlight that people seem to define him with. That's a very rare occurrence for him (he's no Schremp), he generally carries the puck up the ice, has great vision and makes solid passes. Yes he has a very nice slap shot to go with it, and he's got good hockey IQ. I've seen them both play (Strome more, obv.) and I like more what I see in Strome. This was the case when Ottawa had the #1 pick and now that we have the #6 pick. It has nothing to do with bias, unless you think I'm biased because I like Strome's skillset better than RNHs...but then again I like Huberdeau's, Couturier's, Hamilton's, Murphy's, Landeskog's and Larsson's better than RNH's also.
Is he the best 1 on 1 player in the draft because he made that highlight real goal against Plymouth or have you actually watched him enough to see him beating players every night.
Someone that does watch these players regularly recently said RNH is where he is because he's the only player beating players 1 on 1 consistently in the entire draft.
RNH doesn't beat players 1 on 1 head on the rush much. He beats them when they start chasing him in the corners and behind the net twisting and turning out of their checks.
Strome is better 1 on 1 off the Rush. A lot of times it does not work, a lot of times it does and he usually scores or it leads to a scoring chance he is involved in.
RNH doesn't beat players 1 on 1 head on the rush much. He beats them when they start chasing him in the corners and behind the net twisting and turning out of their checks.
Strome is better 1 on 1 off the Rush. A lot of times it does not work, a lot of times it does and he usually scores or it leads to a scoring chance he is involved in.
Yeah I'd agree with that. Just depends what you think is more important. I'll err on the side of the guy with the better feet and hands.
Also it's funny that people keep saying that Ryan Strome plays on a stacked team, or that RNH is the cornerstone of his team and he's the reason they're so good.
Red Deer's record with RNH being held off the scoresheet:
6 - 10
Niagara's record with Strome being held off the scoresheet:
2 - 10
Just another interesting statistic.
Niagara was also 1 - 2 with Strome out injured, so I guess you could make it 3 - 12.
Also it's funny that people keep saying that Ryan Strome plays on a stacked team, or that RNH is the cornerstone of his team and he's the reason they're so good.
Red Deer's record with RNH being held off the scoresheet:
6 - 10
Niagara's record with Strome being held off the scoresheet:
2 - 10
Just another interesting statistic.
Well, they aren't just being judged on offense. Heck, they aren't even really being judged on how good a junior player they are. Their tools are being judged..and how they transfer to the NHL.
Also it's funny that people keep saying that Ryan Strome plays on a stacked team, or that RNH is the cornerstone of his team and he's the reason they're so good.
Red Deer's record with RNH being held off the scoresheet:
6 - 10
Niagara's record with Strome being held off the scoresheet:
2 - 10
Just another interesting statistic.
Such an irrelevant statistic 4 wins difference, woooooooow.
RNH is also pretty ****ing good defensively, so he doesn't disappear when he doesn't score points, unlike Strome.
Well, they aren't just being judged on offense. Heck, they aren't even really being judged on how good a junior player they are. Their tools are being judged..and how they transfer to the NHL.
I wasn't saying that. It was just a statistic that pointed out that Red Deer won more games without RNH's contributions than Niagara did without Strome's because everyone seems to have this misguided idea that Strome plays on a stacked team and Red Deer sucks without RNH.
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Originally Posted by Big Ev
Such an irrelevant statistic 4 wins difference, woooooooow.
RNH is also pretty ****ing good defensively, so he doesn't disappear when he doesn't score points, unlike Strome.
Just pointing out that if Niagara is a stacked team, then Red Deer is just as stacked if not moreso? Red Deer had the better record, and won more games without its star player than Niagara did.
Strome is about as defensively responsible as RNH is. But again, you obviously don't watch them both play so why even comment on it? Strome is constantly causing trouble in the neutral zone with his stick, and he follows the play pretty well. Does he need to improve defensively? Yes, but so does RNH.
Feet? Maybe, but in terms of agility only, not straight away speed. Vision? probably even though that is Strome's calling card as well.
But I don't think anyone in the draft has better 'hands' than Strome.
Huberdeau has better overall game and compete level than both combined with similar elite skill. Bit bigger too.
Ahh I'd say it's arguable whether it's only agility, Strome isn't a speedster, he's got good speed though. The difference in agility is pretty clear though. His first couple steps would be quicker as well...and one on one that may be more important. He can stop and go, shake guys.
Vision? Probably. Yeah probably more than probably...someone actually had the audacity to compare it to Gretzky.
Can't agree on the hands part either. But everyone sees things differently.
I wasn't saying that. It was just a statistic that pointed out that Red Deer won more games without RNH's contributions than Niagara did without Strome's because everyone seems to have this misguided idea that Strome plays on a stacked team and Red Deer sucks without RNH.
Just pointing out that if Niagara is a stacked team, then Red Deer is just as stacked if not moreso? Red Deer had the better record, and won more games without its star player than Niagara did.
Strome is about as defensively responsible as RNH is. But again, you obviously don't watch them both play so why even comment on it? Strome is constantly causing trouble in the neutral zone with his stick, and he follows the play pretty well. Does he need to improve defensively? Yes, but so does RNH.
I have watched them both play. RNH is better defensively by a lot. His defense is one of his best attributes and is one of the reason's he compares himself and is compared to by others to Datsyuk.
Bob McKenzie has repeatedly said that he Top 3 int he draft is Larsson, RNH, ande Landeskog and then after that there's a gap.
Who cares who spent more time 1st overall 2 or 3 years ago. There is no chance Couturier goes 1st.
Where did he say this? It is a myth because he never 'said' this. What he did say is that Huberdeau climbed up to 4 "with a pullet" and still climbing.
Just pointing out that if Niagara is a stacked team, then Red Deer is just as stacked if not moreso? Red Deer had the better record, and won more games without its star player than Niagara did.
That stat could also mean that Niagara's star player is more one-dimensional than Red Deer's. Niagara lost 4 more games because of his ineptness on D.
Where did he say this? It is a myth because he never 'said' this. What he did say is that Huberdeau climbed up to 4 "with a pullet" and still climbing.
He said there is a gap but Huberdeau was making a case to break into the Top 3. Not Strome.
It is impossible for anyone who knows hockey to watch both Strome and RNH play, and then come away with the opinion that Strome is a better prospect. Impossible.
Ahh I'd say it's arguable whether it's only agility, Strome isn't a speedster, he's got good speed though. The difference in agility is pretty clear though. His first couple steps would be quicker as well...and one on one that may be more important. He can stop and go, shake guys.
Vision? Probably. Yeah probably more than probably...someone actually had the audacity to compare it to Gretzky.
Can't agree on the hands part either. But everyone sees things differently.
From what I've seen, skating seems like a rather obviously unimpressive part of Strome's game when you compare him to some of the other top prospects. He's got good straight-ahead speed, but you don't see him executing complex maneuvers at high speed, he's not elusive and looks awkward at times. Even from highlight clips, the contrast to players like RNH, Huberdeau or Namestnikov is immediately apparent in that department.
From what I've seen, skating seems like a rather obviously unimpressive part of Strome's game when you compare him to some of the other top prospects. He's got good straight-ahead speed, but you don't see him executing complex maneuvers at high speed, he's not elusive and looks awkward at times. Even from highlight clips, the contrast to players like RNH, Huberdeau or Namestnikov is immediately apparent in that department.
Kind of reminds me of Joe Nieuwendyk though.
Now I know you don't really watch these players at all other than some youtube clips you see on the net.
It is in fact Huberdeau that you are descriping here, not Strome.
Look Strome's agility top turn on a dime is not like RNH, actually RNH's agility meets or even exceeds that of Datsyuk or just about any NHL player I've seen. That is not to say Strome does not have elite skating ability. He can cut in the middle in a milli secind and twist and turn as well, not just as well as RNH can. His stride is not choppy at all, Huberdeau's kinda is though even though he does not look slow and skates up and down the ice with a power.
Lets just say Strome will not fail in the NHL due to skating. If he does it (and I highly doubt that) it will be due to his high risk plays and lack of defensive game. He will be no worse than Tim Connolly, and Connolly was/is a lot softer than Strome is.
I see him as a Gagner/Horcoff/Damphousse/Gilmour type player. His Relcorsi is high and his eftzoid/60 is off the charts.
No doubt that's impressive IATL, but by the time Strome is ready for the NHL there will be a new measuring stick for stat keeping. Inverted Corsi will measure how many strides he takes in each zone with and without the puck and divide it by the amount of appearances on "Oil Change Season 4: Warranty Voided."
4 wins difference, woooooooow.
