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The Habs should have kept Guy Boucher

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Old
10-18-2010, 06:59 AM
  #26
Boris Le Tigre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koivu_habs#1 View Post
Doesnt matter Captine Kirk is next in line for JM's job. My opinion!
x2...

He's sort of fallen off the radar thanks to all this Boucher attention.

I think he's a fine coach in waiting.

I hope he doesn't end up being picked off by the next team who needs a coach. You just can't horde these guys.

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Old
10-18-2010, 07:09 AM
  #27
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For everyone salivating to Boucher's name. Stop. He is a good coach, but much like Subban, plays a very risky game. Look at his powerplay, he only keeps one man up which is very prone to short-handed breakaways. He coaches a different breed of hockey that might not even work in the NHL like it did in other leagues because the players are stronger, faster, more intelligent(and Avery), more skilled, etc. Let's watch how he does for the whole season before cryin over spilled milk.

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Old
10-18-2010, 07:19 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by ruski17 View Post
For everyone salivating to Boucher's name. Stop. He is a good coach, but much like Subban, plays a very risky game. Look at his powerplay, he only keeps one man up which is very prone to short-handed breakaways. He coaches a different breed of hockey that might not even work in the NHL like it did in other leagues because the players are stronger, faster, more intelligent(and Avery), more skilled, etc. Let's watch how he does for the whole season before cryin over spilled milk.
Just like Subban, he was a pretty great "prospect" that you don't let go for nothing. Now having said that, it's pretty hard to not permit a coach to continue his progression. You can't say to him that he'll coach the Habs soon etc...I would have done everything to keep him but at one point there's so much you can do. Not even sure if it wasn't Boucher's plans to NOT start his career here. He would have certainly not turn an offer down....but he probably prefers the scenario he's living right now.

It is sad to have lost him at the AHL level but that's not something you can fix, he had an opportunity to move up and took it. I surely would have loved to have him coach the Habs but then seems the timing wasn't right.

And it's unfair to compare the situation to Halak vs Price though there is some correlation. But coaches aren't tied to the salary cap. Coaches, when let go, do not give you something in return...you don't trade a coach. And the thing is the Gauthier-Gainey duo believes A LOT in Martin....so they would not have let him go.

But no doubt that we lost a big part of this organization. If the idea is to get the same system that TBay plays and a guy with the same notions that Boucher has, it's pretty simple. In due time, you offer the job to Martin Raymond. That way, there's no chance that TBay would want to stop his progression either....

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Old
10-18-2010, 07:24 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by JimCareyPrice View Post
Halak got the team to the ECF, not Martin.
JM had just as much to do with the playoff success as Halak. I don't expect you to understand this, but most fans should realize that he Grossly outcoached Boudreau and the coach that led the pens to a stanely cup in Bylsma.

Like someone said, he coached them to more than BG or PG could imagine, and that deserves a second year with the same team buying into the same system. Change always takes time.

Also... Its not like Boucher will never sign with us. In 3 years, Boucher could very well sign with us. By that time he would have experience in the NHL. Meanwhile we have a good coach who knows what he's doing. Its a win win imo.

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Old
10-18-2010, 07:32 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Which is particularly interesting because Halak got the team to the ECF, and Martin was merely dragged there by said goalie.
Or so you claim!

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Old
10-18-2010, 07:39 AM
  #31
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great, another shoulda coulda thread. Firing JM for Boucher made absolutely 0 sense for a lot of reasons. Not going to bother to list all of them since it should be common sense..

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Old
10-18-2010, 07:41 AM
  #32
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Martin didn't deserve to be fired,if it was the case when Gainey stepped down he should have had a shot as GM and bring Boucher in to coach and leave Gauthier as an assistant GM.

If Martin was to be let go the Habs would be paying Carbo,Martin for still a couple of years,not sure Molson would be too happy about that

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Old
10-18-2010, 07:44 AM
  #33
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If Boucher was coaching the Habs and we would have lost 6-0 to the Florida Panthers I wonder how many fire Boucher threads we would have had!!

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Old
10-18-2010, 07:52 AM
  #34
onice
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I would have done everything to keep him
Would you have fired Martin?

And as one of the proponents of more French Canadian talent what would that say about you? You get rid of one French canadian and replace him with another. Getting rid of a French canaduan coach who is failing (Hello Carbo) is one thing but to get rid of one who is winning is totally stupid.

The deck was stacked against Boucher coaching in Montreal this year. Martin is gauthier's choice, actually was from the very beginning even when gainey was here. They have a very long history together. Add to that the fact Martin surprised everyone with the team's playoff performance and you have an impossible situation.


I think the Habs organization behaved very decently. They showed respect & loyalty to a coach who brought them success and they permitted a promising AHL coach to advance & pursue his career in the NHL. This created one more position in the NHL occupied by a French canadian.

Why doesn't Rejean & his minions write about that? Can you imagine what a field day the ultra-nationalists would have had if the Canadiens had convinced Boucher to stay as coach in the AHL?


FEDERALISTS REFUSE TO RELEASE QUEBECOIS COACH FOR A NHL. JOB.

Gauthier was in a no win situation. He acted decently. I respect him for that.


Last edited by onice: 10-18-2010 at 07:57 AM.
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Old
10-18-2010, 07:55 AM
  #35
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Guys, it coulda been worse. Boucher could have signed with the Maple Leafs, turned the club around and win the Cup while Kessel wins the MVP award and Phaneuf the Norris and Toronto embraces him as one of their own.






(weirder sci-fi books have been written you know...)

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Old
10-18-2010, 08:03 AM
  #36
onice
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Originally Posted by Ice Poutine View Post
Guys, it coulda been worse. Boucher could have signed with the Maple Leafs, turned the club around and win the Cup while Kessel wins the MVP award and Phaneuf the Norris and Toronto embraces him as one of their own.






(weirder sci-fi books have been written you know...)

You forget that Burns coached the Leafs and almost did do something of that nature.

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Old
10-18-2010, 08:05 AM
  #37
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Has it come to anyone else's mind that Martin left a GM job to go back behind the bench? A GM job under the sun in an area where he can have peace of mind without the crazy fans.

Woulda been worse than the whole Halak situation if you ask me, not in terms of the impact on the organization as much as doing bad business.

Put the credit on Halak all you want, JM had a bunch of peaces to start last year's camp and by the playoffs we had a team and that's something.

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Old
10-18-2010, 08:07 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
There's an interesting point of view from John Grigg of The Hockey News. He argues the Habs should have given the head coach job to Guy Boucher, instead of losing him. He says :



Not a bad argument at all...
You guys like beating dead horses or what. The team did what was best at the time....let him go and have a chance to be a good coach in TB.
Terrible article IMO.

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Old
10-18-2010, 08:11 AM
  #39
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If Boucher really wanted to be the habs coach he'd have waited. I didn't expect him to wait and you shouldn't either, he was an NHL ready coach. However just saying, if he truly wanted nothing else than to coach the habs he'd have waited for his chance. Not like reigning destruction in Hamilton another year or two would have destroyed his career, but he opted for the faster route and it's working, can't really blame the guy or the org here really.

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Old
10-18-2010, 08:12 AM
  #40
Lucius
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We have this debate every few weeks, but again, I just don't see how you can fire a coach one year into a contract and with so much money left.

It's fiscally and professionally idiotic to consider and would torpedo our reputation around the league if we did that to a guy who had only a year before left a GM job to come to Montreal.

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Old
10-18-2010, 08:14 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
There's an interesting point of view from John Grigg of The Hockey News. He argues the Habs should have given the head coach job to Guy Boucher, instead of losing him. He says :



Not a bad argument at all...
It is a bad argument IMO. Boucher was the Bulldog coach for only one season and Martin was the Hab coach for the same length of time. Martin was hardly a flop last season. He had to juggle his personnel to adjust for the absence of key players. There's no evidence that Boucher could have done better. Besides, Martin was under contract and would still be receiving a full paycheck, the way Carbonneau was getting one after he had been re-signed and then dismissed. Right now the Habs are in second place in their division. How could anyone take the Habs seriously if they're that capricious? Are they supposed to take a cue from the hairtrigger style of Lou Lamoriello? Look at how the Devils have been getting off to a slow start season after season and then flopping in the playoffs no matter where they finish during the regular season and no matter who their coach is.

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Old
10-18-2010, 08:16 AM
  #42
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If it aint broke, don't fix it!

Things are going well with Martin so I dont get why we would fire him and hire someone else. He's not my favourite coach but the results are there so why get rid of him

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Old
10-18-2010, 08:22 AM
  #43
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They couldn't fire Martin after last year. The only thing they could have done would be to hire Boucher as an assistant and overpay him like Pierre Mcguire always says the Red Wings do with Ass.GM Jim Nill. Different position, but same philosophy.

Of course that would send a bad message to Pearn and Muller and there's no guarantee that Boucher wouldn't take a head coaching job, but hey....

Stupid no hockey till Wednesday...what...Thursday?....It's gonna be a long week, full of "news" like this.

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Old
10-18-2010, 08:32 AM
  #44
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If Boucher is really the next best thing, pretty much all the team should have fired their actual coach and try to sign Boucher. But the reality isn't like that. The coach is important, but at the end, it's the player who will make you win games. Boucher can be good, but if Ellis and Smith aren't playing up to par, Tampa will need to score a bunch of goal to win.

At the end, it's all good because we are a decent team, we are playing well, we will only get better when Markov returns and we still have a good goaltender.

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Old
10-18-2010, 08:33 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
If Boucher really wanted to be the habs coach he'd have waited. I didn't expect him to wait and you shouldn't either, he was an NHL ready coach. However just saying, if he truly wanted nothing else than to coach the habs he'd have waited for his chance. Not like reigning destruction in Hamilton another year or two would have destroyed his career, but he opted for the faster route and it's working, can't really blame the guy or the org here really.
At his age, if he really wants to coach the Habs, he'll get his shot.

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Old
10-18-2010, 09:06 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Strik_IX View Post
Has it come to anyone else's mind that Martin left a GM job to go back behind the bench?
Or maybe he did it because he knew he'd get fired soon and/or because he'd rather be a coach than a GM.

Saying that Martin came to Montreal to be the GM could have made sense before Gauthier became GM. But since Martin was not named GM after Gainey, it's fair to say that he didn't come here for the GM job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HABSolutelyDbest View Post
Things are going well with Martin so I dont get why we would fire him and hire someone else. He's not my favourite coach but the results are there so why get rid of him
How are things going well?

The Habs can't even beat teams like Buffalo and Ottawa, who are off to awful starts, by more than a goal. And if it wasn't for Price playing outstanding hockey, something Martin has no control over, we'd have lost the first three games and by more than one goal. Instead, we won one the game against Pittsburgh (by a goal) and lost the ones against Tampa and Toronto (again, by one goal each). To be fair, the game against Toronto wasn't that bad... but the team still couldn't score.

I understand that Markov is out, but it's about damn time for the coach to find a way around relying on Markov and goaltending for everything.


Last edited by Montreal Typical: 10-18-2010 at 09:14 AM.
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Old
10-18-2010, 09:22 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Railman View Post
Or maybe he did it because he knew he'd get fired soon and/or because he'd rather be a coach than a GM.

Saying that Martin came to Montreal to be the GM could have made sense before Gauthier became GM. But since Martin was not named GM after Gainey, it's fair to say that he didn't come here for the GM job.



How are things going well?

The Habs can't even beat teams like Buffalo and Ottawa, who are off to awful starts, by more than a goal. And if it wasn't for Price playing outstanding hockey, something Martin has no control over, we'd have lost the first three games and by more than one goal. Instead, we won one the game against Pittsburgh (by a goal) and lost the ones against Tampa and Toronto (again, by one goal each). To be fair, the game against Toronto wasn't that bad... but the team still couldn't score.

I understand that Markov is out, but it's about damn time for the coach to find a way around relying on Markov and goaltending for everything.
I know, what a nerve of that Martin guy to rely on his two most important positions on the team to win him games.

Furthermore rely on a guy who gains you about 1 extra goal a game as well as often times stops another one from happening against... I don't get why Martin is such a jerk relying on goaltenders and a PP QB to win him games. Oh wait... he isn't, we have a winning record....

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Old
10-18-2010, 09:25 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Railman View Post
How are things going well?

The Habs can't even beat teams like Buffalo and Ottawa, who are off to awful starts, by more than a goal. And if it wasn't for Price playing outstanding hockey, something Martin has no control over, we'd have lost the first three games and by more than one goal. Instead, we won one the game against Pittsburgh (by a goal) and lost the ones against Tampa and Toronto (again, by one goal each). To be fair, the game against Toronto wasn't that bad... but the team still couldn't score.

I understand that Markov is out, but it's about damn time for the coach to find a way around relying on Markov and goaltending for everything.
This post is hilarious.

Basically, everything good that has happened so far this season was actually bad, and the bad stuff is really bad.

Tied for highest 5-on-5 scoring in the league right now, PP is broken because Markov is out (and yes, that is a legitimate excuse), one of the top penalty kills in the league, 3-1-1 record... What else do you want exactly?

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Old
10-18-2010, 09:28 AM
  #49
Lucius
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Originally Posted by Railman View Post
Or maybe he did it because he knew he'd get fired soon and/or because he'd rather be a coach than a GM.

Saying that Martin came to Montreal to be the GM could have made sense before Gauthier became GM. But since Martin was not named GM after Gainey, it's fair to say that he didn't come here for the GM job.



How are things going well?

The Habs can't even beat teams like Buffalo and Ottawa, who are off to awful starts, by more than a goal. And if it wasn't for Price playing outstanding hockey, something Martin has no control over, we'd have lost the first three games and by more than one goal. Instead, we won one the game against Pittsburgh (by a goal) and lost the ones against Tampa and Toronto (again, by one goal each). To be fair, the game against Toronto wasn't that bad... but the team still couldn't score.

I understand that Markov is out, but it's about damn time for the coach to find a way around relying on Markov and goaltending for everything.
Ummm 3-1-1.

Goal differential doesn't award you an extra point.

Stop looking at the glass completely empty, for no apparent reason.

Again, the age old mistake here: If we do well, it's the players. If we don't, it's the coach. Strange logic, but seems to go every week.

Montreal is on pace for 115 points. Stop whining.

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Old
10-18-2010, 09:33 AM
  #50
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I don't see the problem... yeah I love Boucher and I would want him to coach the Habs but he will someday.

And the day he'll coach the Habs he gonna have a lot of NHL experience already so really I think what happened is the best that could happen for Boucher and the Habs in the long run.

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