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The Habs should have kept Guy Boucher

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Old
10-18-2010, 08:55 PM
  #126
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Exactly. I was afraid after last year's fluke playoffs' performance with Halak standing on his head and Cammalleri's timely goals' scoring that some fans would get blinded by it thinking that the team was actually better than it was. Unfortunately, it's happening and in bigger numbers than I even anticipated.
If Fans were ready to give Carbo another shot after his horrific rookie season, then really, are you surprised by this?..

If Gainey stuck with Carbo for 3years then it was pretty obvious Martin wasn't going anywhere.

Boucher is the flavor of the month right now, no matter how good he may be, I think all this ''brouhaha'' over him is out of control.
Hopefully Martin will fix his system this year. If by the end of the year, we're yet a PO bubble team and look as disorganized, I have a hard time believe Price will be able to outplay Halak's PO performance, so we're likely to be gone in the 1st round.
If that happens, I wouldn't be surprised if we go for the new flavor of the month during the next summer, or next season.

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10-18-2010, 09:16 PM
  #127
la25ecoupe
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tampa w/ 20 shots on super dallas in 2nd.

i want boucher!!0

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Old
10-18-2010, 09:18 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
Boucher did a great coaching job on Saturday
he doing great monday coz they have 35 shots vs 10.. in two period

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Old
10-18-2010, 09:19 PM
  #129
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35-10....that's...wow

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10-18-2010, 09:22 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by m00ks View Post
35-10....that's...wow
That's kind of scary actually. It's only a few games in, but I did not expect Tampa to be this dominant.

In all likelihood it's just a hot streak, which is good because if the Habs let go of a coach who's able to produce this kind of game on a regular basis...

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10-18-2010, 09:28 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
That's kind of scary actually. It's only a few games in, but I did not expect Tampa to be this dominant.

In all likelihood it's just a hot streak, which is good because if the Habs let go of a coach who's able to produce this kind of game on a regular basis...
Still early. We've seen plenty of hot starts fizzle quickly enough.

*And Toronto ties it. Kessel is one fine player.

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10-18-2010, 09:36 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by m00ks View Post
Still early. We've seen plenty of hot starts fizzle quickly enough.
A team that can outshoot 2-to-1 and up on a regular basis would be 70s Habs dominant and I don't think Tampa is anywhere near this. Think 07-08 Wings, but more so. Tampa's not that good.

But they seem able to eat up team that don't play the possession game well.


Last edited by MathMan: 10-18-2010 at 09:41 PM.
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Old
10-18-2010, 10:19 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
The question isn't "would they made it without player X", is "would they make it with Y instead of X".

Do you think Boucher could have ridden Halak, Cammalleri, and the Habs' luck to the ECF?

I think he could have. I think Carbo could have. Heck, I'm fairly sure Michel Bergeron could have.
It's unfortunate that this post wasn't given more attention because it's a very legitimate point.

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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Boucher is the flavor of the month right now, no matter how good he may be, I think all this ''brouhaha'' over him is out of control.
To some, maybe. To many others, not so much. Many have recognized that Boucher is a special talent and just like a top prospect, serious management who don't fear for their own jobs must do everything to keep that top talent, whether it's in goal, on defense, at forward, at the management level or at the coaching level.

Having said that, what's done is done and we can't dwell on the past. But it doesn't mean that we have to put on the pink glasses and think that every decision made by management is the right one tough.

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Old
10-18-2010, 10:47 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
IBoucher is the flavor of the month right now, no matter how good he may be, I think all this ''brouhaha'' over him is out of control.
Well some things contribute to this. First, I've rarely if not ever heard so many players say so many great things about their coach. Was it Hunter Bishop who said that when he joined the Dogs, he never learned as much in his entire career than he learned in 1 week with Boucher. And all those guys saying things like that. Then, you have to respect Stevie Y and the fact that he went with Boucher have to count as something. And his record prior to his being a pro. And how he speaks about the game etc.....I don't beleive he's solely a flavor.

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Old
10-18-2010, 11:24 PM
  #135
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and they shouldve drafted Denis Savard too....but they didnt so its time to move on and not dwell on the past

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Old
10-18-2010, 11:34 PM
  #136
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In all likelihood it's just a hot streak, which is good because if the Habs let go of a coach who's able to produce this kind of game on a regular basis...
Yeah, it really burned them when they let Scotty Bowman leave the Petes to join the St. Louis Blues back in '67. What were they thinking?

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10-19-2010, 12:03 AM
  #137
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It isn't ridiculous to think of having Martin step aside for Boucher. Remember, Sam Pollock, who everyone agrees is the greatest of all GM's, actually removed a Stanley Cup winning coach, Al Macneil, immediately after his having won the Cup! Why? Because he thought the replacement, Scotty Bowman, was a better candidate. Yes, of course, Scotty had coached St. Louis well to that point -- but no one could have known for certain that he would emerge as the greatest of all hockey coaches; Pollock's shrewdness lay in making the move and not giving a damn if it looked a little crazy. Now, you can make a case that Boucher isn't ready, or not really that good , or whatever -- but you can't make a case that there's anything weird or wrong about removing (or just kicking upstairs) a coach because he just had a good/lucky playoff run. IT's making moves like that that distinguish good (70's Habs, 90's Devils) from bad organizations.

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10-19-2010, 12:39 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by 23Hab View Post
I know Boucher is good, but what were they supposed to do? Fire Martin after being the 27th team out. Life don`t work that way.

Their having a good start also, let`s give them time.
It happened to Halak.. lol!! Traded ~ fired no?

Martin didn't lead the Habs in the play-offs. Cammalleri and Halak did. But mostly Halak.. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Do I like Martin? He's alright. He did decided to let Halak stay in nets for the Habs. Smart move. But If the organization believed in the Long run with Price, I agree that the same can be said about Boucher.

The big difference is this.. Gauthier and Martin have a long history. They are good friends. They stick together. Halak isn't a good friend to Martin or Gauthier.. So that's how this differs IMO.

You want more examples? Auld. Out of any back-up the Habs could have had (Ellis included) why Auld? Auld was Martin's goalie back in Florida.. Perry Pearn. Worked alongside Martin in Ottawa. Pierre Groulx. Worked in Florida with Martin.

Gautier and Martin are too close.. Gauthier will never fire Martin unless the team really really suck....

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Old
10-19-2010, 12:49 AM
  #139
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It happened to Halak.. lol!! Traded ~ fired no?

Martin didn't lead the Habs in the play-offs. Cammalleri and Halak did. But mostly Halak.. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Do I like Martin? He's alright. He did decided to let Halak stay in nets for the Habs. Smart move. But If the organization believed in the Long run with Price, I agree that the same can be said about Boucher.

The big difference is this.. Gauthier and Martin have a long history. They are good friends. They stick together. Halak isn't a good friend to Martin or Gauthier.. So that's how this differs IMO.

You want more examples? Auld. Out of any back-up the Habs could have had (Ellis included) why Auld? Auld was Martin's goalie back in Florida.. Perry Pearn. Worked alongside Martin in Ottawa. Pierre Groulx. Worked in Florida with Martin.

Gautier and Martin are too close.. Gauthier will never fire Martin unless the team really really suck....
If Gainey fired Carbo why Gauthier can't do the same with Martin?

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Old
10-19-2010, 01:00 AM
  #140
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We wanted an Experienced Coach, we got one. We wanted this Coach to take us to deep in the playoffs, we got it. But now we are whinning because we didn't fire him for a rookie coach?

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Old
10-19-2010, 01:04 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by HotSnakes View Post
If Gainey fired Carbo why Gauthier can't do the same with Martin?
He gonna do it because PG is Bob Gainey version 2.0 (not because he's better just because he speaks frensh more fluently)

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Old
10-19-2010, 01:55 AM
  #142
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
To some, maybe. To many others, not so much. Many have recognized that Boucher is a special talent and just like a top prospect, serious management who don't fear for their own jobs must do everything to keep that top talent, whether it's in goal, on defense, at forward, at the management level or at the coaching level.

Having said that, what's done is done and we can't dwell on the past. But it doesn't mean that we have to put on the pink glasses and think that every decision made by management is the right one tough.
I'm not saying Boucher isn't a special talent. What I meant by flavor of the month is that it's constantly been all over the news, and to be honest I'm a little fed up with hearing about it every day.

There is no question I would take Boucher over Martin, but as you said, what's done is done.
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Well some things contribute to this. First, I've rarely if not ever heard so many players say so many great things about their coach. Was it Hunter Bishop who said that when he joined the Dogs, he never learned as much in his entire career than he learned in 1 week with Boucher. And all those guys saying things like that. Then, you have to respect Stevie Y and the fact that he went with Boucher have to count as something. And his record prior to his being a pro. And how he speaks about the game etc.....I don't beleive he's solely a flavor.
There's no question the hype is warranted. Is it THAT warranted though, only time will tell. All for now seems to point towards a yes, that's as far as we can go.

I'm just tired of hearing about Boucher and TB.

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10-19-2010, 02:01 AM
  #143
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If TB doesn't make the playoffs in the comparatively weak East, what would that make Boucher? A failed genius? A coach who found his level in he AHL but can't win with stars and superstars?

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10-19-2010, 02:26 AM
  #144
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The guy has a lottary team. I can coach that team to a stanley cup ffs.

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Old
10-19-2010, 06:35 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
There's no question the hype is warranted. Is it THAT warranted though, only time will tell. All for now seems to point towards a yes, that's as far as we can go.

I'm just tired of hearing about Boucher and TB.
I guess the thread should have gone to the OT that way whoever not interested would not continuously see the title. But Lats is pretty quiet so you have to deal with Boucher now....

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10-19-2010, 08:48 AM
  #146
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I think people need to understand that there is no “blame” to go around for Boucher not being in the organization anymore. Occasionally, the timing is just wrong. Martin was not in a position to be let go, due to the success in the playoffs (argue who was responsible all you want, the fact is he was successful).

I’m sure the organization understood what they had in Boucher, since they fired a very successful AHL coach to make a position for him, and apparently paid him very well last year. I doubt Boucher would have wanted to be an assistant, since he obviously could become a NHL head coach.

The only thing we can hope is the organization and Boucher parted on good terms (no reason to not think that by the way), and if the timing is right down the road, he would be available for the position.

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Old
10-19-2010, 09:06 AM
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by la25ecoupe View Post
tampa w/ 20 shots on super dallas in 2nd.

i want boucher!!0
Calm down with the shots on goal...

From rotoworld :

Quote:
Kari Lehtonen has faced an average of 38 shots per game this season.
So Dallas defense is allowing a lot of shots...not like it's all because of Tampa.

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Old
10-19-2010, 09:29 AM
  #148
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I think people have their heads screwed on right for the most part in this thread.

The comparison to Halak's situation is BS.

There was nothing to be done but let Boucher go.

John Grigg sucks.......read his past work......can't believe he's getting paid for the garbage he writes.

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Old
10-19-2010, 09:39 AM
  #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belso View Post
It happened to Halak.. lol!! Traded ~ fired no?

Martin didn't lead the Habs in the play-offs. Cammalleri and Halak did. But mostly Halak.. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Do I like Martin? He's alright. He did decided to let Halak stay in nets for the Habs. Smart move. But If the organization believed in the Long run with Price, I agree that the same can be said about Boucher.

The big difference is this.. Gauthier and Martin have a long history. They are good friends. They stick together. Halak isn't a good friend to Martin or Gauthier.. So that's how this differs IMO.

You want more examples? Auld. Out of any back-up the Habs could have had (Ellis included) why Auld? Auld was Martin's goalie back in Florida.. Perry Pearn. Worked alongside Martin in Ottawa. Pierre Groulx. Worked in Florida with Martin.

Gautier and Martin are too close.. Gauthier will never fire Martin unless the team really really suck....
Oh jesus, are we back to the old Carbo/Gainey conspiracies again?

Coaches have input on player decisions. The team clearly tried to get Dan Ellis and couldn't sign him, he wanted a chance to be a number one. Remember? Auld was the second choice, as far as we know, and perhaps even further down the list. Biron signed really fast in New York, didn't seem overly interested either.

I mean, if you want strange coaches getting guys on the roster decisions, explain to me why Michael Vernace is in the NHL? Guy Boucher had him for the playoff run (Brisebois acquired him) and seems to have taken a shining to the guy, now he's in the NHL. It happens on every team.

What baffles me is the stupid double standard.

People piss on the playoff run, saying it was all two players (Cammy and Halak). Yet, they praise Boucher, forgetting that Stamkos and St. Louis are a major part of their early season success. You can't have it both ways.

Did the team overachieve last year? Probably, but it was still the best run in a long time and I wouldn't throw the coach who was there for it on his ass because of that. Anyone here who thinks its was all magic and took no coaching is just letting their prejudices color things. Lots of players were good in the playoffs last year, like Moore, Lapierre, Subban (a less experienced coach may not have given him the ice time, for example), Gorges and Gill... to name a few. It was not two guys.

Boucher for all his genius took a favored team to the exact same stage Montreal made it in the AHL and blew it. Does that mean he's a bad coach? Not really, but to me, the only real way I can measure the success of a coach is exceeding or failing to meet expectations. If a team vastly overachieves or underachieves, that's usually an indication of a good coach.

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Old
10-19-2010, 10:06 AM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
does winning 8 playoff games, where your team is badly outplayed and out-shot in almost every game, make you a good coach?

.
The Box+1 system from the PO relies on huge number of non-dangerous outside shots against...CH was playing a system, not outplayed...Jacques was a big part of this spring's success.

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