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IS Lundqvist hated by his teammates ??????

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Old
10-19-2010, 12:43 PM
  #76
Reijo R
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As for the original question.....

No, I do not think the players hate Hank at all. I think there's been an attitude here where getting every single point you can in the standings is all that matters, and that taking retaliatory penalties can cost you a game. Meanwhile, teams have no problems running Hank or punching Gaborik's face in. Tough for us fans to see. And in the end, it might be better to sacrifice 2 points to warn other

As for Hank's rank, I'm not sure. He gets little help from his defense, but it would've been nice to see him steal ONE playoff series over the years. That Washington series in April '09 was his best shot. People tend to throw adjectives around these days, and I don't think "great" or "best" apply to Hank. I'd say he's likely a top 5 NHL goalie right now, but you can add me to those (few) who think trading him might be the best thing the organization can do for both itself and Hank. Still in his prime, he should be able to bring back a young star forward or a TOP prospect, which this team desperately needs since Cherepanov's death. Meanwhile, Hank would get a chance to finally win a Cup, which isn't likely to happen in a NYR sweater anytime soon. Sad, but true.

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10-19-2010, 12:50 PM
  #77
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Goalies bring back nothing in trades. Nothing. Unless Jason Blake is your target. Niemi was a free agent this season, there is no way anyone will dish out a decent package in a trade when options like that are available.

Look at Luongo's two trades, Auld and Bertuzzi the last time. Luongo, O. Jokinen, the pick that could have landed Heatley, Gaborik or Bouwmeister for Parrish and Kvasha and the pick for DiPietro. I think that is right but it is in the ballpark. Biron got the 31st overall pick, probably the best return since the lockout. Bryzgalov was a waiver pick up because no one bit on the trade offers. Giguere got Blake and Toskala. Kiprusoff got a 3rd I believe.

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10-19-2010, 04:07 PM
  #78
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You call Henrik "far from great" yet you have guys like Brandon Prust, Colton Orr, Donald Brashear as your avatars.. yeah..

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10-19-2010, 04:10 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
Goalies bring back nothing in trades. Nothing. Unless Jason Blake is your target. Niemi was a free agent this season, there is no way anyone will dish out a decent package in a trade when options like that are available.

Look at Luongo's two trades, Auld and Bertuzzi the last time. Luongo, O. Jokinen, the pick that could have landed Heatley, Gaborik or Bouwmeister for Parrish and Kvasha and the pick for DiPietro. I think that is right but it is in the ballpark. Biron got the 31st overall pick, probably the best return since the lockout. Bryzgalov was a waiver pick up because no one bit on the trade offers. Giguere got Blake and Toskala. Kiprusoff got a 3rd I believe.
Meh. The names you mentioned (Bryz, Kipper) were unproven at the time of their deals. Giggy's value had dropped. Neimi is considered unproven I guess but the Hawks were absurdly stupid to let him go to save what, just over 1 mill?

I don't know how the second Luongo trade didn't get more, bad General Managing I guess.

Henrik is a World Class goaltender. We shouldn't entertain trading him, but I suspect we could get a good return if we did.

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10-19-2010, 04:20 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
Meh. The names you mentioned (Bryz, Kipper) were unproven at the time of their deals. Giggy's value had dropped. Neimi is considered unproven I guess but the Hawks were absurdly stupid to let him go to save what, just over 1 mill?

I don't know how the second Luongo trade didn't get more, bad General Managing I guess.

Henrik is a World Class goaltender. We shouldn't entertain trading him, but I suspect we could get a good return if we did.
Not so sure. He's a big salary item right now and with Niemi and Leighton taking teams to the finals there's a school of thought that you may not need an elite goalie to win the Cup. Even more so with the Habs dealing Halak and the Hawks walking away from Niemi.

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10-19-2010, 04:52 PM
  #81
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Listen, we know Dagoon doesn't have the opinion most of us have on Henrik's skill level.

Regardless, he has a point. Henrik gets run season in and season out and not one player sticks up for him. You know who the first person I saw stick up for him constantly, Valentenko. Anyone that came near the crease Vtank skating right to them to get them out of there.

What is odd though is you never see Henrik take it out on the other team either. He never slashes, chops, shoves or anything either. As much as the team needs to protect the crease, Henrik does too. Goalie sticks hurt.

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Old
10-19-2010, 05:41 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Not so sure. He's a big salary item right now and with Niemi and Leighton taking teams to the finals there's a school of thought that you may not need an elite goalie to win the Cup. Even more so with the Habs dealing Halak and the Hawks walking away from Niemi.
Yeah. I think the 'tandum' is becoming the soup du jour. I saw some stat about goalies in the postseason, those who played more than 40 game and those who played less. Its amazing how much the under 40g guys outplay the overs. I guess rest is king right now. Rask, Leighton, Neimi, Halak... Nabokov got swept.

And it's not so much that Lundqvist is proven, its that an allstar goalie, even though its a crap shoot, is a mere waiver pick or 7th round pick (Hello Lundy) away. You can grab 5 or 6 guys on the cheap like the Flyers, pray that one works and go to the finals, or you can trade a couple of blue chippers for Lundqvist. There are just too many examples of diamonds in the rough to really find a decent match for a trade.

Lundqvist might be available for the right price, not that he is, but who is willing to match that price? I'd assume more than a 1st rounder, probably a top line forward and a great prospect. But who's willing to pay that? You'd be hard pressed to find a team with the cap space that is willing to pay up. Conversely, take all the trade proposals from GMs, I'd bet that none of them come close to making it worth our while to move him.

Gomez has fetched more than any goalie trade I can remember: Halak, Giguere, Biron, Kipper, Luongo, Theodore, Huet, (Raycroft was traded for Rask). Leighton and Bryz were waiver picks. Mike Smith may have gotten the heftiest price, he was in the Richards deal... of course that was a cap move but we can always hope.

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Old
10-19-2010, 06:19 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
You call Henrik "far from great" yet you have guys like Brandon Prust, Colton Orr, Donald Brashear as your avatars.. yeah..
First my man I hated Brashear so your way off there. Second Prust has been a steal so far and over achieved more then any recent Rangers trade in 10 years. Colton Orr did his job and did it very well in NY. Oh did I mention the were under a million each while Hank is making 7 million to not be great

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10-19-2010, 06:30 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
Miller's been good since the lockout. Not top five all of those years, but the last 2 or 3 seasons he has been in the conversation.


Is Lunqvist done playing? Save the championship comparisions until the career is over.

You clearly missed the point of my post. Dagoon worships Richter yet thoroughly trashes Lundqvist for 'soft goals'. I am merely pointing out the fact that Richter was a victim of more than an occasional soft goal. No one loved Richter more than me, I died a little inside everytime he lost a shutout in the 3rd period on a garbage goal. I didn't want to admit that he let in softies while sprawling and diving to save the impossible. It's just a fact and the way his career went. Right now, Richter is the best in NYR history, but Henrik is fast approaching.

You misunderstand my question about guys likeing Richter too. Everyone liked him, but if we're going to measure a player's likability by the defense he receives, let's look at the facts. I use Richter to disprove that notion. No one protected him on the play that ended his career, of course his teammates loved him though. This is a silly topic (the likability stuff).
You can't compare Hanks & Richter. It's like comparing Jagr and Messier. Jagr was great but what did he really do here? Messier brought a cup. Messier will be selected over Jagr 90% of the time by Ranger fans.

Richter won a cup, he's simply better IMO. Dagoon is a knowledgeable poster who is often misunderstood, I believe this is one of those times. I don't understand why people wanna jump down his throat so much.

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Old
10-19-2010, 06:46 PM
  #85
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I'm pretty sure he's better than more like 95% of the goalies in the league.

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10-19-2010, 06:51 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by GarretJoseph View Post
Dagoon is a knowledgeable poster who is often misunderstood, I believe this is one of those times. I don't understand why people wanna jump down his throat so much.
Fanatics they are, that's why.
Richter didn't bring the Cup, BTW. Former Oilers did. Forwards are those who win the games, cups, championships. Goalies help not to loose. Dmen are in between.
Lundqvist is a better goalie than Richter both technically and athletically. That doesn't change the fact that Lundqvist never steps up when it's needed, something Richer did a lot. Now is the time to step up and not let PP goals in (like last night).

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10-19-2010, 07:01 PM
  #87
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It's not a personal dislike for Lundqvist, but a lack of comradeship throughout the lineup.

I know it's like this with a lot teams, probably due to so many roster changes each year...
but just like last season, I watch this team and can't help but get the impression that there's a sort of 'mercenary' mentality, like everyone is looking out for themselves and focused on their own interests.
On the rare occasion that someone does stick up for a teammate it looks forced, like "I'm right here so I have to respond now".

I don't think anyone hates Lundqvist, but it's clear that no one is particularly bothered when he gets run either.

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10-19-2010, 07:04 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Nick00 View Post
It's not a personal dislike for Lundqvist, but a lack of comradeship throughout the lineup.

I know it's like this with a lot teams, probably due to so many roster changes each year...
but just like last season, I watch this team and can't help but get the impression that there's a sort of 'mercenary' mentality, like everyone is looking out for themselves and focused on their own interests.
On the rare occasion that someone does stick up for a teammate it looks forced, like "I'm right here so I have to respond now".

I don't think anyone hates Lundqvist, but it's clear that no one is particularly bothered when he gets run either.
I see the same thing, and I believe it stems from a lack of leadership.
I was arguing the importance of Iginla to the Flames in another thread, and to some extent, I think this is what you get when you don't have a Jarome in the ranks.

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10-19-2010, 07:20 PM
  #89
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I see the same thing, and I believe it stems from a lack of leadership.
I was arguing the importance of Iginla to the Flames in another thread, and to some extent, I think this is what you get when you don't have a Jarome in the ranks.

I can't speak on anything since we don't know, but if anyone thinks it's a leadership deal it makes perfect sense.

No way Drury would ever condone or tell teammates to do anything.

Staal's wearing an A now? Staal? Really.

Love ya Marc, really, I do. But Staal has been notorious for not doing a damn thing after the whistle. It's embarrassing.

Cally? Love the guy also, but don't see him ordering players to take mental notes and retribution.

I really do think this whole Boogaard thing has been an issue. Derek must not even feel like part of the team.

Listen, we all know he's not good at hockey, and he's not here to produce. But he's here for a reason. Can we let him do his job?

Can we please, Torts?

Let Derek do what he does, and let the team appreciate him.

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10-19-2010, 10:31 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
First my man I hated Brashear so your way off there. Second Prust has been a steal so far and over achieved more then any recent Rangers trade in 10 years. Colton Orr did his job and did it very well in NY. Oh did I mention the were under a million each while Hank is making 7 million to not be great
ugh... no

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10-19-2010, 10:55 PM
  #91
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instead of just adding ugh no how about making a point? What has prust done wrong in ur eyes ?

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10-19-2010, 10:55 PM
  #92
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Why do u think I hate him? I never said I did. Just cause I fail to think he is elite doesn't mean I hate him. I made money with him and a lot of money for him. I have nothing personal against him either. He gives up a lot of weak goals and trust me he stops a lot. I am even getting worked up over torts allowing the bumping. MDZ jumped someone finally tonight and stood up for his team but not Hank why??
Well let's see when you consistently call the guy "queen" and "suckqvist" one figures you don't like the guy

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10-19-2010, 11:01 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
First my man I hated Brashear so your way off there. Second Prust has been a steal so far and over achieved more then any recent Rangers trade in 10 years. Colton Orr did his job and did it very well in NY. Oh did I mention the were under a million each while Hank is making 7 million to not be great
Seem to remember you sporting a Brash avatar, but okay..

Prust has been fine. I have no problem with him but my point is you are fans of guys like this. 3rd liners and goons yet you hate the face of the franchise and the only reason we have a chance to win every night

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10-20-2010, 08:10 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
Seem to remember you sporting a Brash avatar, but okay..

Prust has been fine. I have no problem with him but my point is you are fans of guys like this. 3rd liners and goons yet you hate the face of the franchise and the only reason we have a chance to win every night
I did have one ad it said "Torts guy" I was a huge Orr Fan and never wanted that trash here. Second Prust and shelley were the reason we were even in the spot we were in to make the playoffs last yr. Your face lost in a one on one skill test remember that. The Face of the Hawks and Flyers were faceless and one won a cup the other just missed it.

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10-20-2010, 08:44 AM
  #95
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Like Richter was, Henrik is the best around disregarding the team in front. That's about all that's fair to compare as far as I see it.

Henrik = Great

As for tolerating other opinions, but there are fans who think the David Booth head shot was clean too...which is just as brilliant as saying Henrik Lundqvist isn't a great goalie.

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10-20-2010, 08:54 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
instead of just adding ugh no how about making a point? What has prust done wrong in ur eyes ?
ok heres my point. prust has not over achieved more than any rangers acquistion in the last 10 years.

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10-20-2010, 09:15 AM
  #97
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Henrik for Stamkos... make it happen....

At this point, I'd consider trading him if we could get the right return.

That said, I pretty much want the whole organization traded.

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10-20-2010, 09:34 AM
  #98
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Henrik to Tampa for Hedman, Downie, and a goalie or Henrik to LA for Schenn, Hickey, and Bernier

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10-20-2010, 09:39 AM
  #99
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Forget about it!!! Once and for all, please. There is no good return for 7 million goalie, no matter how good that goalie is.
Lundqvist is not a problem with this team. He is not great, great goalies win Vesina, but he is adequate. If the rest of the team would be at his level, we might be a perennial PO team.

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10-20-2010, 09:49 AM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Not so sure. He's a big salary item right now and with Niemi and Leighton taking teams to the finals there's a school of thought that you may not need an elite goalie to win the Cup. Even more so with the Habs dealing Halak and the Hawks walking away from Niemi.
Goaltending to me depends on the make up of your team. In Chicago's case, not many lesser goalies would have stopped their march to the finals and winning the Cup.

However from Montreal's perspective, Halak got them as far as they did because he picked up the slack where the team was lacking.

Elite goaltending is not needed for a cup, just depends on the rest of the team. IMO


edit: for the original topic, I don't think Hank is hated at all but I agree that it's brainwashed into them that don't do anything that could sacrifice 2 points. It was so refreshing to see Zotto immediately go after the culprit who hit Girardi the other night.

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