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Old
10-19-2010, 03:39 PM
  #26
Jame
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Originally Posted by vcv View Post
The truth hurts. I'm not absolving Ruff of any responsibility. But it is not 100% in Ruff's hands. He can yell, he can make them bag skate, he can bench players. But the players have to put in the actual work.
That's exactly what you and the majority of the fan base do every year that Ruff's teams have a poor season.

One question, if they go from 1st place in the division to 4th place in the division, and end up outside the playoffs... should Ruff be fired?

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10-19-2010, 04:10 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
That's exactly what you and the majority of the fan base do every year that Ruff's teams have a poor season.

One question, if they go from 1st place in the division to 4th place in the division, and end up outside the playoffs... should Ruff be fired?
How many coaches have the Bills been through? Has it made a difference?

The problems with the composition of the team are blatantly obvious. Ruff can't be blamed for that never being improved.

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Old
10-19-2010, 04:15 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by ColonelForbin View Post
How many coaches have the Bills been through? Has it made a difference?

The problems with the composition of the team are blatantly obvious. Ruff can't be blamed for that never being improved.
The Sabres have a Vezina goalie... have the Bills had anything near a pro bowl QB?

So, Ruff gets the credit when basically the same roster finishes first in the Northeast, and the players get the blame when they suck...

like I said, Ruff has the best job security in sports... because the fan base (customers) love him for no good reason.

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10-19-2010, 04:31 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by vcv View Post
The truth hurts. I'm not absolving Ruff of any responsibility. But it is not 100% in Ruff's hands. He can yell, he can make them bag skate, he can bench players. But the players have to put in the actual work.
Agreed - and to add an obvious point: Regier has the same degree of responsibility as Ruff for solving the current situation. Coaching tactics aside, I doubt even Toe Blake or Scotty Bowman would do much better with some of the players on this team. If an athlete doesn't have an inherent and consistent desire to compete and excel to the maximum of his capabilities, no coach in the world is going to make a winner out of him.

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Old
10-19-2010, 04:33 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
One question, if they go from 1st place in the division to 4th place in the division, and end up outside the playoffs... should Ruff be fired?
Yes - along with Regier and Quinn.

Unfortunately, that will never happen as long as Golisano owns the team IMO.

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Old
10-19-2010, 04:45 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
The problem is, who's going to fire them? Quinn? Golisano? Neither of them are going to make those kind of decisions. The only way Ruff and/or Regier leave is if they step down or walk.
And even if Quinn suddenly decided Ruff or Regier needed to go - who's going to hire their replacement? Lawrence himself.

Who in their right mind would come work for that clown, knowing damn well he's a meddling nincompoop, when other options are available? Probably not the cream of the coaching/GM crop.

I'm all for canning Regier, and Ruff too if necessary - but the problems with this organization start at the top - with BTG the absentee landlord and WormTongue Quinn.

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Old
10-19-2010, 04:50 PM
  #32
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I could honestly see Ruff resigning and handing the reins to Dineen if the team goes nowhere this year. I think he's fed up trying to motivate these guys.

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Old
10-19-2010, 05:29 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
That's exactly what you and the majority of the fan base do every year that Ruff's teams have a poor season.
No, what I do is play devil's advocate on specific points that the Fire Ruff crowd makes which I believe to be dishonest, disingenuous or what have you. I rarely state my overall opinion on how good of a job Ruff is doing and if he should keep his job. I don't believe my opinion on that to be very interesting, so I stick to discussing the finer points of Sabres coaching. That you choose to take my specific points to the extreme to extrapolate my overall opinion is a minor annoyance at times like this, but not really that big of a deal to me. Labels and distinct sides are convenient, so have fun with them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame
One question, if they go from 1st place in the division to 4th place in the division, and end up outside the playoffs... should Ruff be fired?
I can't answer in a strict yes or no manner, but I'll try. I think if they miss the playoffs, they should focus on making roster moves first before addressing the Coach (even if that means having to get rid of Darcy).

Ruff has shown to have success with a relatively fresh roster and elite goaltender. There frankly aren't that many better options out there right now. If one presents itself, take it. But don't make a move just to make a move.


Last edited by vcv: 10-19-2010 at 08:01 PM.
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Old
10-19-2010, 05:44 PM
  #34
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And nobody in the Buffalo media is actually going to call Ruff out on taking the blame for the team playing uninspired hockey for the fourth year in a row.

But hey, let's write an article getting pissy about not getting Sheldon Souray.

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Old
10-19-2010, 07:43 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
The Sabres have a Vezina goalie... have the Bills had anything near a pro bowl QB?

So, Ruff gets the credit when basically the same roster finishes first in the Northeast, and the players get the blame when they suck...

like I said, Ruff has the best job security in sports... because the fan base (customers) love him for no good reason.
Aren't you doing the same thing the other way? The players get the credit when they finish well, but Ruff gets the blame when they suck?

Ruff has shown he can succeed when he has hard-working players, even if they are out-matched skill wise. This team simply has too many guys in big roles who don't provide leadership and can't or won't impact games with hard work.

The fact that the players voted Rivet, a middle-pairing defenseman who just joined the team, to be captain should say a lot.

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Old
10-19-2010, 07:50 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by ColonelForbin View Post
Ruff has shown he can succeed when he has hard-working players, even if they are out-matched skill wise.
You mean Dom Hasek?

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Old
10-19-2010, 08:06 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by BigZackKassian View Post
You mean Dom Hasek?
Recent history shows that a Vezina calibre goalie can't come close to getting to the cup on his own. Guys like Luongo, Lundqvist, and Miller couldn't even make it out of the first round despite being at the top of their game.

Miller was not a Vezina calibre goalie during the 05-06' and 06-07' seasons. What the team did have though, was leadership in the top-six.

Which top-six forward now can be considered a leader, or can be counted on to score a clutch goal?

Is it the players, or did Ruff just suddenly become a worse coach the year after Drury and Briere left?

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Old
10-19-2010, 08:14 PM
  #38
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Do you remember how lazy the team was for the latter half of 06/07, even with all those leaders and clutch goal scorers?

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Old
10-19-2010, 08:49 PM
  #39
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I think Ruff has lost a lot of the players....


It's like your wife....you love her to death...you respect her...but let's be honest...you tune her out at times...you let the words wash over you and don't really pay attention.

It doesn't mean she's a bad wife, or you a bad husband...but after awhile we all tend to tune some things out in life

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Old
10-19-2010, 09:01 PM
  #40
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what the sabres have that no other team has and it is quite easy to define for entertainment purposes, the sabres have buffalo. Perhaps the situation is not ideal for some people but we often challenge our ideas by making things way too complex. They just need to be a better team.

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Old
10-19-2010, 09:31 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Do you remember how lazy the team was for the latter half of 06/07, even with all those leaders and clutch goal scorers?
Yes, and I couldn't stand it. It didn't surprise me at all when we got outworked in the playoffs.

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Old
10-20-2010, 01:10 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vcv View Post
No, what I do is play devil's advocate on specific points that the Fire Ruff crowd makes which I believe to be dishonest, disingenuous or what have you. I rarely state my overall opinion on how good of a job Ruff is doing and if he should keep his job. I don't believe my opinion on that to be very interesting, so I stick to discussing the finer points of Sabres coaching. That you choose to take my specific points to the extreme to extrapolate my overall opinion is a minor annoyance at times like this, but not really that big of a deal to me. Labels and distinct sides are convenient, so have fun with them.

I can't answer in a strict yes or no manner, but I'll try. I think if they miss the playoffs, they should focus on making roster moves first before addressing the Coach (even if that means having to get rid of Darcy).

Ruff has shown to have success with a relatively fresh roster
and elite goaltender. There frankly aren't that many better options out there right now. If one presents itself, take it. But don't make a move just to make a move.
wait, you want to argue against other people's points of view without giving your own POV on the subject being discussed??? how entirely pathetic is that?

thanks for your time professor...

and no... Ruff hasn't shown an ability to have success with a "fresh roster". prior to the lockout, the drury, briere, dumont, biron, mckee, max, kotalik, etc roster sucked... it took a few years... after the drury/briere debacle, it took 3 years to get back to the playoffs with the "fresh" roster...

congrats on being wrong, about the one point of view you tried to take...

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Old
10-20-2010, 01:10 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColonelForbin View Post
Recent history shows that a Vezina calibre goalie can't come close to getting to the cup on his own. Guys like Luongo, Lundqvist, and Miller couldn't even make it out of the first round despite being at the top of their game.
None of those guys are Hasek.
I'd put Roy close, but no other goalie IMO comes close to Hasek.
Comparing Luongo, Lundqvist or Miller to him is comparing apples to oranges.

Two points:
- Ruff has shown he can get a quality team far.
A quality team with the best goalie in the world, or a quality team with the deepest and most dynamic offense in the league, etc.
- with teams that weren't all that good, he's been unable to get them to the playoffs (after all, Buffalo's missed 5 out of the last 8 playoffs).

It's not necessarily on Ruff (I don't think it's on him at all), but I'm just saying he's done well with good teams, poor with mediocre teams.

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Old
10-20-2010, 01:23 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
wait, you want to argue against other people's points of view without giving your own POV on the subject being discussed??? how entirely pathetic is that?

thanks for your time professor...
No, not at all. Don't misrepresent what I said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame
and no... Ruff hasn't shown an ability to have success with a "fresh roster". prior to the lockout, the drury, briere, dumont, biron, mckee, max, kotalik, etc roster sucked... it took a few years... after the drury/briere debacle, it took 3 years to get back to the playoffs with the "fresh" roster...

congrats on being wrong, about the one point of view you tried to take...
You missed a key part... "and an elite goaltender". Miller started the road to elite in 05-06.

You get 2

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Old
10-20-2010, 08:46 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by vcv View Post
No, not at all. Don't misrepresent what I said.


You missed a key part... "and an elite goaltender". Miller started the road to elite in 05-06.

You get 2
Miller wasn't "elite" until last season...

quadruple

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Old
10-20-2010, 09:16 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Miller wasn't "elite" until last season...

quadruple
Never said he was. But he IS an elite goaltender and 05-06 he was the starter. The goaltender doesn't have to have an elite year, but has to be elite.

x 8

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Old
10-20-2010, 09:21 AM
  #47
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Quote:
http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/article223917.ece
Coach Lindy Ruff set up the difficult day for several reasons. First, he finally had a chance to do so. The Sabres started the season with six games in nine nights, so practice time has been limited or non-existent since the puck dropped. The Sabres had Sunday off and don't play again until Wednesday in Atlanta. That gave the team Monday as a work day.
"We kind of expected it," left wing Thomas Vanek said. "We finally have a few days between games here, so we knew it would be a day where we can get some work done, work on systems and work hard.

"We really haven't had much time with this group. In training camp, you have different teams and you work on system with everyone who was here, so once the team was made we really haven't had many work days where we could work on structure and our systems. Days like this are good, especially when you're in a little funk."
This goes back to poor planning of camp/preseason. They didn't begin their preseason games until almost a week later than other teams. That delayed personnel decisions and the opportunity to practice with the final roster. The knew the regular season schedule going in and should have scheduled appropriately.

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Old
10-20-2010, 09:26 AM
  #48
Jame
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Originally Posted by vcv View Post
Never said he was. But he IS an elite goaltender and 05-06 he was the starter. The goaltender doesn't have to have an elite year, but has to be elite.

x 8
so once you finally reach elite status, you are then retroactively elite in the past...

got it. thanks professor

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Old
10-20-2010, 09:30 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
so once you finally reach elite status, you are then retroactively elite in the past...

got it. thanks professor
No, he was a budding elite goaltender at the time. Would it make you feel better if it was phrased as "a goaltender with elite upside"?

Stop focusing on the semantics. Move on.

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Old
10-20-2010, 10:07 AM
  #50
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This quote sums it up:

Quote:
"We're trying to find some chemistry on lines," Ruff said. "Right now we have a little trouble with our top, we have a little trouble with our bottom six chipping in."
http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/sa...icle225086.ece


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