However, my question on the Leetch trade was also meant in all seriousness, because from an asset perspective, one could argue that letting an aging player, like Leetch, with a big contract go isn't all crazy (Jagr could have been up for contract negotiations for example). So, from that perspective, I see "method to the (Sather) madness." I guess I just don't see Jarome being there quite yet.
But, you are right in that Calgary are sort of out of trade leverage as well. Iginla is the one asset they could get someone/something for right now, and if they are nowhere near a play-off spot in the Top-Heavy Western conference come deadline, you could certainly be right although I still would be surprised because of the market.
Time will tell.
I was serious too. We got almost nothing back for Leetch. Well, we got some picks that we essentially wasted and a few prospects that flopped. In retrospect, everyone would prefer to see Leetch retire a career Ranger than to keep anything we got in that trade. I understand your desire to keep Iginla and let him play out his career in Calgary.
I can see some merit in that. However, if we were Calgary's GM, and looking over this idea, I have a feeling we'd look at it a little bit more in depth.
Iginla is the face of this franchise, our captain, and a crowd favorite.
His jersey will be in our rafters once he retires.
He has proved at all evels that he can produce and plays hard every night, doing all the things we will need from him.
His contribution is bound to drop off sometime in the future, but not necessarily next week.
Edmonton are dominating the marketing in Alberta with three exciting names in Eberle, Hall, and MP.
We sent off Phaneuf last year, and if we are going to rebuild, we will need proven leaders, such as Jerome, in the locker room, as well as on the ice.
OK. What do we get.
Dubinsky...Dubin... Ahhh, yes! Solid kid. Plays for the... Rangers.... ok. What did he do there?
Starting to play strong, going to the net more and more.
Seems to be complicating matters at times, and passing game leaves a little to be desired, just like many younger players wanting to prove themselves do.
Production is not awful, but the Rangers seem to have some trouble in that department as a club.
Leadership is questionable, as the NYR seems a bit scattered in personalities.
Decent shot, knows how to finish, but can't seem to get or create opportunities to capitalize on that strength consistently.
New face for our crowd, and although they know of him, he won't be recognized as anything but a role player for the Flames, or the next Flames' captain for that matter.
....
Conclusion:
Jerome is aging, but a proven All-Star, who more than once has taken this team on its back and won games for us, and there is no reason to believe he won't be doing it for a few more years. He is the Flames with nobody on second or third right now.
Dubinsky is a young, hard working player, but obviously not a guy who is making the Rangers or himself a name we hear about out west very often.
At this point, if we ever were to trade Jerome, it would be for someone who makes the Saddledome boil over from excitement, or I'll be run out of town. Dubinsky is not that person.
No deal.
I disagree with a lot of this. Iginla is not the player that you're painting him to be - not right now in my opinion. He was that player for a long time and may be that player again, but as of today he is not the kind of force that you're talking about. On the other hand, Dubi has a good bit more promise than most think. I'm not sure how to read the abundance of ellipses but taken in combination with your previous posts in this thread it comes off like maybe you think less of him because he's on this specific team. This team is a **** show a lot of the time, no doubt about that, but that doesn't change the fact that some players on this team are hugely talented players that any and every GM who knows his ass from his elbow would want on their squad. Dubi is one of those players, not the most talented nor is he totally irreplaceable, but he's up there. Also, he's 24 and he has only improved every year. Like any young player his future is up in the air, but after 3 seasons of success at this level I think its safe to say that he's a guy who is capable of improving at this level in increments. Iginla, on the other hand, isn't going to get much better. He is what he is. He may regain his old form at some point, but the odds are about a million to one that he suddenly becomes even better than that and they're one to one that in the next three of four years he's going to be drastically worse than he is today.
In addition, NYR has 0 depth on the left wing. If they move Dubi they have Fro for this season and Avery as top 6 guys? That would be a death wish. On the other hand, this team is generally very soft and lacks unity while being hard and bringing his team together are Iginla's top strengths.
I wouldn't want to actually make the decision on whether or not to pull the trigger on a Dubi for Iginla deal - its a pretty complex situation. Its not as easy as picking the "better player."
Lastly, Calgary is never, ever, going to get the sort of player that you're talking about for Iginla if they do in fact want to trade him. He's a legend there, I understand that, but everywhere else he's a really great player who is getting older. He's not worth the kind of return that you're hoping for in my opinion.
I was serious too. We got almost nothing back for Leetch. Well, we got some picks that we essentially wasted and a few prospects that flopped. In retrospect, everyone would prefer to see Leetch retire a career Ranger than to keep anything we got in that trade. I understand your desire to keep Iginla and let him play out his career in Calgary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by haveandare
I disagree with a lot of this. Iginla is not the player that you're painting him to be - not right now in my opinion. He was that player for a long time and may be that player again, but as of today he is not the kind of force that you're talking about. On the other hand, Dubi has a good bit more promise than most think. I'm not sure how to read the abundance of ellipses but taken in combination with your previous posts in this thread it comes off like maybe you think less of him because he's on this specific team. This team is a **** show a lot of the time, no doubt about that, but that doesn't change the fact that some players on this team are hugely talented players that any and every GM who knows his ass from his elbow would want on their squad. Dubi is one of those players, not the most talented nor is he totally irreplaceable, but he's up there. Also, he's 24 and he has only improved every year. Like any young player his future is up in the air, but after 3 seasons of success at this level I think its safe to say that he's a guy who is capable of improving at this level in increments. Iginla, on the other hand, isn't going to get much better. He is what he is. He may regain his old form at some point, but the odds are about a million to one that he suddenly becomes even better than that and they're one to one that in the next three of four years he's going to be drastically worse than he is today.
In addition, NYR has 0 depth on the left wing. If they move Dubi they have Fro for this season and Avery as top 6 guys? That would be a death wish. On the other hand, this team is generally very soft and lacks unity while being hard and bringing his team together are Iginla's top strengths.
I wouldn't want to actually make the decision on whether or not to pull the trigger on a Dubi for Iginla deal - its a pretty complex situation. Its not as easy as picking the "better player."
Lastly, Calgary is never, ever, going to get the sort of player that you're talking about for Iginla if they do in fact want to trade him. He's a legend there, I understand that, but everywhere else he's a really great player who is getting older. He's not worth the kind of return that you're hoping for in my opinion.
I should perhaps clarify that I am not a Flames fan. I live in Portland, OR, and as we are not an NHL market, I have sort of adopted the Canucks (Flames are not a Vancouver favorite), but I still follow the Rangers, and a few more eastern franchises with great enthusiasm, hoping to see, especially the Rangers, do very well and beating the snot out of the Islanders, Devils, and the Flyers every single time they square off.
If Calgary is willing to trade Jerome we should jump on it. I've wanted him on the Rangers for years.
I would make that trade, regardless of how unpopular it might be because of some fan favs. But it has got to have more to it, because it is bascially a decision to "go for it now", and I think we should if we could build around a guy like Jerome.
He is a special player: A blend of talent, hockey smarts, leadership, physical element and also some genuine nastiness. He is the complete package. I'd make the moves in a heart beat.
If we has Iginla and some solid supporting players (already have some), with this goal-tender, pffft, I'd go to 25 games a years not including playoffs.
I disagree with a lot of this. Iginla is not the player that you're painting him to be - not right now in my opinion. He was that player for a long time and may be that player again, but as of today he is not the kind of force that you're talking about. On the other hand, Dubi has a good bit more promise than most think. I'm not sure how to read the abundance of ellipses but taken in combination with your previous posts in this thread it comes off like maybe you think less of him because he's on this specific team. This team is a **** show a lot of the time, no doubt about that, but that doesn't change the fact that some players on this team are hugely talented players that any and every GM who knows his ass from his elbow would want on their squad. Dubi is one of those players, not the most talented nor is he totally irreplaceable, but he's up there. Also, he's 24 and he has only improved every year. Like any young player his future is up in the air, but after 3 seasons of success at this level I think its safe to say that he's a guy who is capable of improving at this level in increments. Iginla, on the other hand, isn't going to get much better. He is what he is. He may regain his old form at some point, but the odds are about a million to one that he suddenly becomes even better than that and they're one to one that in the next three of four years he's going to be drastically worse than he is today.
In addition, NYR has 0 depth on the left wing. If they move Dubi they have Fro for this season and Avery as top 6 guys? That would be a death wish. On the other hand, this team is generally very soft and lacks unity while being hard and bringing his team together are Iginla's top strengths.
I wouldn't want to actually make the decision on whether or not to pull the trigger on a Dubi for Iginla deal - its a pretty complex situation. Its not as easy as picking the "better player."
Lastly, Calgary is never, ever, going to get the sort of player that you're talking about for Iginla if they do in fact want to trade him. He's a legend there, I understand that, but everywhere else he's a really great player who is getting older. He's not worth the kind of return that you're hoping for in my opinion.
Please don't take my post as disrespectful, as it isn't meant that way at all. I wrote it in a way that I think people in Alberta would preceive such a trade, and Suter has to watch his steps with the fans and ultimately the owners at this point, given some of the moves he has made in the last season.
We are kind of making the same point though. The preceived value Iginla has among Flames' fans is higher than that of the rest of the market. To some extent I believe the same is true for Dubinsky. However, Iginla's real contribution, no matter what, is still leadership, and if they are looking at sparking a new crop of Flames, like Backlund and co., they need someone like him for another season or two, not Dubinsky.
There is no way that we are trading for Souray's full salary unless Rozy goes back the other way (and they won't take Redden). That is why this Edmonton rumor is plain silly. The only guy Dubinksy is traded for is Richards (or another random star center). Otherwise... he will stay a Ranger.
In terms of Iginla, I wouldn't put it past Sather to be interested. He would provide much needed toughness and scoring. The problem is that he is not a center and he makes way too much money.
Iginla (along with Kipper, to a lesser degree) is the face of the Flames. Jarome in my mind is still one of the top power forwards anywhere, anytime. He just never gets much help. He's a pure scorer, not a playmaker. Darryl Sutter and Flames management have taken a fair amount of well-deserved criticism for their mismangement of the team over the last few years. (As an update, Jokinen is as effective with the Flames as he was with NYR, I will leave it at that).
Trading Iginla, especially at this time of year? I cannot even imagine it happening. The PR fallout would be more than the Flames organization could handle.
At the trade deadline? That could be a whole different kettle of fish. It remains to be seen whether Flames President Ken King and/or Sutter(s) will even be there. I think their future lies in improving on last season, and if I were a betting man, I'd be selling short.
As for Souray, it's been so long since I've seen him play, I feel like I cannot comment accurately, though my gut says 'no, don't do it'. Unless, as some others have prescribed, Rozsival is traded (now, I could buy into that scenario hugely, heavily weighted by getting Rozsival out). Cogliano is a player that has been overvalued by the Oilers during their starvation phase. I cannot see Cogliano making the Rangers better in any way.
So if Iginla is a pure sniper and Calgary's main problem as of the past few years is centers that can get him the puck. How is that any different then our situation and how productive will he be for us with our lack of prolific centers?
Because Renney would be doing such a better job right now...
He would have been making more sound decisions with his personnel and employing a style more suitable to gain points with this talent issue, that much Im sure of.
But I am glad that everyone has (finally) come around and realized that the ****** rosters put together by the man upstairs is the real problem, and has been for years now. It wasnt too long ago that Tortorella was going to be the guy to unlock the offensive potential just waiting to burst out.
Right. What I mean is, who do you expect to be able to get for let's say Staal?
What's a reasonable trade.
Right now, the players on the Rangers aren't looking... hrm... like Cup contesters for the moment, and if you sit on the outside, who would you be willing to send off to the Rangers to get for example Callahan or Del Zotto?
Remember, put yourself in the other guy's chair.
What hole did you crawl out of? Are you even a Ranger fan for Pete's sake? (Who's Pete btw??)
Seriously.....the season is still young.....panic mode already???
What hole did you crawl out of? Are you even a Ranger fan for Pete's sake? (Who's Pete btw??)Seriously.....the season is still young.....panic mode already???
Question is with Iggy- is the 80pts now the new 60pts. Not to sure I would want to go there if the cost to acquire and the cost for the production remains the same for a comparrison in Richards and Iggy. I would rather concentrate for a player like Richards who could be a great role model for the likes of Steps(similiar gameplay). Not to mention the fact that Richards is 30 and not 33? as Iggy. Just the three more servicable years is big if money and cost acquistion are the same.
True, but honestly, to get a player like Iginla - it would destroy our prospect pool. A guy like Iginla wouldn't come anywhere close to cheap. This isn't a Kovy/Hossa rental deal.
yeah, its very very unlikely. i think its something to look at down the road in teh season based on where the rangers and flames are in the standings.
No, I think it's a fair question! 
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