HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Pens/Sharks

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-20-2010, 05:33 AM
  #1
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
**** You, Duthie
 
Rowdy Roddy Peeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 43,683
vCash: 500
Pens/Sharks

Kunitz and Despres for Setoguchi and Huskins.

Pens get the young RH sniper to play with Crosby and work the left side half wall on the PP (in the hopes that he regains the form of two years ago) plus a salary dump in Huskins, and the Sharks get a Cup-winning top 6 vet who's good for 50+ points while playing solid d and hitting everything, plus a quality two-way defense prospect who can skate like the wind and would've been in the NHL this year if not for a numbers game on the Pens blueline.

Thoughts?

Rowdy Roddy Peeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2010, 05:49 AM
  #2
Captain Hook
Olli Määttä
 
Captain Hook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 13,707
vCash: 500
Seto's individually better than both the guys the Pens give, but I'd still rather have the combination of Kunitz and Despres. Huskins doesn't interest me much.

Captain Hook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2010, 05:59 AM
  #3
ObsessedCreative
I hate Dan Bylsma.
 
ObsessedCreative's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 3,737
vCash: 500
I'd much rather Keep despres & kunitz for years to come (especially Simon) than have one year of Seto to hope he regains form, and even if he does he will want much more $$$/yr.

I think the reason he signed such a cheap deal with SJ was because of the loyalty there, and is playing for a big payday.

Even if kunitz is slightly over-paid he does his job well and helps out sid on the ice.

Despres & Kunitz >>> Steo IMHO

ObsessedCreative is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2010, 06:20 AM
  #4
dgroup66
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3
vCash: 500
Pit SJ trade

I think that it would be a better deal for the Pen's to trade Talbot
He is in the last year of his contract and can piut the puck in the net

dgroup66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2010, 06:37 AM
  #5
wej20
Registered User
 
wej20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Swansea,UK
Country: Wales
Posts: 21,772
vCash: 500
I really don't want to give up Despres but getting Setoguchi is very enticing. I doubt he's traded while he's on his cheap deal though plus he's a RH shot unlike Sharks other top 6 wingers. If San Jose don't find a top 4 solution via Free Agency this Summer I'd think about a Letang for Setoguchi trade.

wej20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2010, 06:37 AM
  #6
wej20
Registered User
 
wej20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Swansea,UK
Country: Wales
Posts: 21,772
vCash: 500
edit: I'm an idiot.

wej20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2010, 07:08 AM
  #7
Dylonus
Registered User
 
Dylonus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 10,431
vCash: 500
No thank you. I love Setoguchi's speed and his finishing touch, but Kunitz is our only legit winger and Despres is on pace to be a legit NHL defenseman by the time he's 21.

Sharks would definitely win this deal. No thanks from Pittsburgh!

Dylonus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2010, 07:28 AM
  #8
wej20
Registered User
 
wej20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Swansea,UK
Country: Wales
Posts: 21,772
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylonus View Post
No thank you. I love Setoguchi's speed and his finishing touch, but Kunitz is our only legit winger and Despres is on pace to be a legit NHL defenseman by the time he's 21.

Sharks would definitely win this deal. No thanks from Pittsburgh!
Sharks don't definitely win the deal, if they weren't able to re-sign Kunitz or Despres tops out as a bottom pairing defenseman they'd definitely lose the deal.

wej20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2010, 07:53 AM
  #9
tony d
The Future
 
tony d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Behind A Tree
Country: Canada
Posts: 36,552
vCash: 500
I can see Pittsburgh doing this but I would say San Jose would pass.

tony d is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2010, 08:06 AM
  #10
Dylonus
Registered User
 
Dylonus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 10,431
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
Sharks don't definitely win the deal, if they weren't able to re-sign Kunitz or Despres tops out as a bottom pairing defenseman they'd definitely lose the deal.
what has Setoguchi proved without being on the line with an elite center? Not much.

Dylonus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2010, 08:07 AM
  #11
Saving Greiss
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Saving Greiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Moncton, NB
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,390
vCash: 500
Thanks, but no thanks. I really wouldn't want to part with Despres.

Saving Greiss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2010, 08:49 AM
  #12
wej20
Registered User
 
wej20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Swansea,UK
Country: Wales
Posts: 21,772
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylonus View Post
what has Setoguchi proved without being on the line with an elite center? Not much.
Considering how often Pens fans have to deal with "His numbers are inflated from playing with Crosby/Geno" it's pretty hypocritical for us to then do the same to other teams. Setoguchi put up 20 goals in 70 games last year and he mostly played with Pavelski and Clowe at ES and mostly on the 2nd PP unit.

wej20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2010, 11:11 AM
  #13
CupfortheSharks
Registered User
 
CupfortheSharks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,102
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
Considering how often Pens fans have to deal with "His numbers are inflated from playing with Crosby/Geno" it's pretty hypocritical for us to then do the same to other teams. Setoguchi put up 20 goals in 70 games last year and he mostly played with Pavelski and Clowe at ES and mostly on the 2nd PP unit.
Yup.

This trade doesn't address the Sharks needs at all. If Setoguchi gets traded, a 20+ minute D man is coming back. It doesn't make any sense for the Sharks to trade Seto for forward help.

CupfortheSharks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2010, 11:28 AM
  #14
hockeyball
Registered User
 
hockeyball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 17,820
vCash: 500
If we trade with the Pen's it needs to be a Seto for Letang/Goligoski/Orpik deal, otherwise there is just no point from our end.

hockeyball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2010, 11:35 AM
  #15
Anderson55
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,093
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
Kunitz and Despres for Setoguchi and Huskins.

Pens get the young RH sniper to play with Crosby and work the left side half wall on the PP (in the hopes that he regains the form of two years ago) plus a salary dump in Huskins, and the Sharks get a Cup-winning top 6 vet who's good for 50+ points while playing solid d and hitting everything, plus a quality two-way defense prospect who can skate like the wind and would've been in the NHL this year if not for a numbers game on the Pens blueline.

Thoughts?
Id like to try to hold on to Depres, what about Bortuzzo and Jeffery/pick instead on Derpes?
But i think Kunitz is EXACTLY the kind of player the Sharks need, heart, grit and a proven winner.

Anderson55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2010, 12:00 PM
  #16
wej20
Registered User
 
wej20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Swansea,UK
Country: Wales
Posts: 21,772
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylonus View Post
what has Setoguchi proved without being on the line with an elite center? Not much.
Lucky for us we have 2 elite centres that he could lineup along side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anderson55 View Post
Id like to try to hold on to Depres, what about Bortuzzo and Jeffery/pick instead on Derpes?
But i think Kunitz is EXACTLY the kind of player the Sharks need, heart, grit and a proven winner.
It would be an insult to the Sharks if we swapped Despres for mid level prospects. I'm sure Kunitz would be a useful addition to the Sharks (or any cup contender) but they need to improve their top 4 rather than there forwards.

wej20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2010, 12:02 PM
  #17
JTG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: Sierra Leone
Posts: 38,867
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CupfortheSharks View Post
Yup.

This trade doesn't address the Sharks needs at all. If Setoguchi gets traded, a 20+ minute D man is coming back. It doesn't make any sense for the Sharks to trade Seto for forward help.
Granted it isn't helping your cause now, but Despres looks like one of those guys who will be a 25 min guy in the NHL.

But like I said, SJ is looking to compete now, and Despres will be ready next season.

JTG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2010, 12:16 PM
  #18
Big McLargehuge
Global Moderator
HFBoards: Night's Watch
 
Big McLargehuge's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Country: Iceland
Posts: 55,184
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylonus View Post
what has Setoguchi proved without being on the line with an elite center? Not much.
Yes...because he wouldn't be playing with an elite center in Pittsburgh...

For San Jose the deal doesn't make too much sense without a guy who can eat 20+ minutes on the blueline right now. Despres should be able to do that next year, though, and his future on the Penguins blue line may slide the value towards San Jose past this year.

Huskins is crap and a salary dump, but San Jose would still need to replace him somehow.

It makes sense in an abstract way for both teams...Seto is a better player than Kunitz and Despres would be a huge addition to the Sharks blueline starting next year...but at the same time it doesn't make much of any sense for either team. San Jose needs blueline help now and Despres doesn't offer that and Despres' entry level deal for the Penguins will be huge.

Big McLargehuge is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2010, 12:59 PM
  #19
wej20
Registered User
 
wej20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Swansea,UK
Country: Wales
Posts: 21,772
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
Yes...because he wouldn't be playing with an elite center in Pittsburgh...

For San Jose the deal doesn't make too much sense without a guy who can eat 20+ minutes on the blueline right now. Despres should be able to do that next year, though, and his future on the Penguins blue line may slide the value towards San Jose past this year.

Huskins is crap and a salary dump, but San Jose would still need to replace him somehow.

It makes sense in an abstract way for both teams...Seto is a better player than Kunitz and Despres would be a huge addition to the Sharks blueline starting next year...but at the same time it doesn't make much of any sense for either team. San Jose needs blueline help now and Despres doesn't offer that and Despres' entry level deal for the Penguins will be huge.
I agree 100% but I'm not sure Despres will be able to step in straight away as a 20 minute a night guy, I think he'll need a year or two to adjust to this level.

wej20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2010, 01:06 PM
  #20
JTG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: Sierra Leone
Posts: 38,867
vCash: 500
I don't think he'll need much adjusting. From watching him, he has the physical tools to be an NHL'er now, what he will have to get adjusted to is having to making snap decisions with the puck. He's a smart kid though, I don't think he'll have a problem.

I'm sort of shocked the team didn't give him a 9 game tryout.

JTG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2010, 02:34 PM
  #21
BillR10
Registered User
 
BillR10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 444
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
Considering how often Pens fans have to deal with "His numbers are inflated from playing with Crosby/Geno" it's pretty hypocritical for us to then do the same to other teams. Setoguchi put up 20 goals in 70 games last year and he mostly played with Pavelski and Clowe at ES and mostly on the 2nd PP unit.
Also some of those games were on the 3rd and 4th as they eased him back into the lineup.

One other thing people always forget to mention when talking about seto is hits. He is not just a sniper with speed. He is not afraid to take the body. He had 165 shots last year and 124 hits.

Ultimately, if were not talking about a young top 4 dman coming back to San Jose in the trade, then there is no need to argue the topic. That is the only thing that you could try to base fair market value around to make a deal, as it is the only real need for the sharks currently. If you try to base a deal around anything but a top 4 young dman, your gonna get alot of people saying it would take gross overpayment, cause it wouldn't be addressing a direct need, thus making the deal pointless for the sharks.

BillR10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2010, 02:36 PM
  #22
Big McLargehuge
Global Moderator
HFBoards: Night's Watch
 
Big McLargehuge's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Country: Iceland
Posts: 55,184
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
I don't think he'll need much adjusting. From watching him, he has the physical tools to be an NHL'er now, what he will have to get adjusted to is having to making snap decisions with the puck. He's a smart kid though, I don't think he'll have a problem.

I'm sort of shocked the team didn't give him a 9 game tryout.
Me too...how quickly that decision backfired to send him back with two defenders out of the line-up within the first week of the season.

Despres will probably be eased into the NHL by the Penguins because we have the defensive depth that will allow him to be the #6 guy next year at highest (barring trades he may start in the AHL if Lovejoy keeps playing as well as he has been)...but if he was asked to play 20 minutes next year I really think he could. He's so sound that I don't think the transition is going to be that difficult for him.

I'm just surprised that he wasn't given those 9 games with Lovejoy bumped to #7 duty and Engelland sent down to start (I have no doubt that Engelland would have cleared...but maybe Shero wasn't so sure). What a 7 game cameo did for Letang while in the same situation was huge in letting Letang jump almost right to the NHL the following season (10 dominant games in WBS).

Big McLargehuge is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2010, 05:02 PM
  #23
mgd525
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 1,143
vCash: 500
This trade won't work for either team. Kunitz is actually healthy and is playing great. Seto is a good oung winger but if we trade Kunitz ...we still need another winger.

Simon won't be traded. This kid looked great at camp/very good in preseason. He would have made the team if we didn't have so many defenseman. His progresion since his draft he's been fantastic. If th draft was redone he would be a top 10 pick.

mgd525 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2010, 05:34 PM
  #24
ObsessedCreative
I hate Dan Bylsma.
 
ObsessedCreative's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 3,737
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
I really don't want to give up Despres but getting Setoguchi is very enticing. I doubt he's traded while he's on his cheap deal though plus he's a RH shot unlike Sharks other top 6 wingers. If San Jose don't find a top 4 solution via Free Agency this Summer I'd think about a Letang for Setoguchi trade.
Good lord, I would NEVER do that trade.

ObsessedCreative is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2010, 05:54 PM
  #25
terex
Registered User
 
terex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 462
vCash: 500
This deal sort of reminds me of the Whitney for Kunitz/Tangradi deal, but in reverse. I loved the trade then, and I still love it now. I don't want to be on the wrong side of a trade like that. The Pens got 2 impact players in that deal. The Ducks flipped Whitney and a 6th a year later for Visnovsky.

I just don't think this is the right move to make for the Pens. I want to exhaust all other options during this season and next off-season, and then make a decision for the 2011-2012 season.

I think there are other players out there that can be had without giving up those particular assets. I expect Kunitz to be re-signed to a deal similar to his current one, barring injury. The guy brings it, knows how to win, and creates space for Sid. I think it's certainly reasonable that Setoguchi's abilities cap out at a Kunitz level, minus a bit of physicality but with a bit more offensive skill.

Kunitz is young enough to still be quite effective through the duration of his next contract (at hopefully the same or slightly less cap hit), but will probably be a cheaper cap hit than Setoguchi will be on his next deal. Bottom line, I don't like the risk of this deal turning into a lateral move for the Pens at the forward position, plus giving away Despres.

Despres's ELC is going to be a key cog 2 or so seasons down the line, if the Pens wish to make a move with one of the higher priced defenseman. It gives management more options down the line. Management can look at moving other pieces while they wait to see Despres develop. I think the sky is the limit for Despres, so I would be very cautious in moving him.

I think this coming off-season is the one where the Pens' management look long and hard at adding a pricey (up to $5m cap hit) winger for their top two lines. A ton of bottom six guys' deals are up, and management will shuffle in whoever wants to stay for the most favorable deal for the Pens (a la Adams/Zigomanis a few years back). We can fill in the gaps with guys like Jeffrey from the Baby Pens. Letestu and Kennedy (both RFAs) can claim spots of their own if they can display consistency and durability this season.

Pick 3 or 4 guys from Asham, Rupp, Godard, Dupuis, Talbot, Adams, and Comrie. Sign them to value contracts, re-structure the roster a bit, and make room for that winger. For example, letting Dupuis, Talbot, Comrie, and Godard walk clears $3.7m in cap space. That leaves a gritty 4th line of Rupp, Adams, and Asham.

Shero has a lot of options to play with this coming summer. There are going to be a lot of forwards that are not retained. I love that management has set them up to compete for their next contract. But for those options to fully develop, it means management needs to sit on their hands and let the roster shake out. At least until the deadline, but probably until the off-season.

I'm holding out hope for Gagne. He's Hossa-lite. His current cap hit is $5.25m and will be 31. Due to the concussion/sports hernia/injury issues, he could possibly be had at a similar cap number. It's likely he will be a bit out of the Pens' reach, but boy would he be nice to have at a 4 or 5 year deal and a $5m hit.

I would also find great joy in seeing Flyers fans ******** a brick because Gagne is in a Penguin sweater.

Finally, let me end this post with the disclaimer that I am very conservative when it comes to making roster decisions. I, personally, think the trade has to have a clear positive impact either short term (Hossa trade) or long term (Whitney trade). At the end of the day, I don't feel confident enough that this deal satisfies either of those criteria.

terex is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:58 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.