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Old
10-20-2010, 08:36 AM
  #1
Coolburn
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Which Vets to Retain?

So this has been on my mind since early in the preseason from a question I asked GR via a game chat. And everyone knows that Tallon is planning to build mostly from within. But every good GM knows you need to have some veteran talent to help lead the youngsters. No offense to guys like Booth, Weiss, Higgins, etc who have played a few yrs in the league but they cant be the only vets.

And I'm not just asking who do you trade at the deadline if the team is out of the playoff race. I'm asking who are the guys you would want to keep around by either not trading or re-signing them when their contract expires. Here's the guys I would identify as veterans who could be moved or not retained and generally will be over 30 yrs old:

Stillman
Reinprecht
Dvorak
Reasoner
Hordichuk
McCabe
Allen
Weaver
Vokoun
Clemmensen

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10-20-2010, 09:22 AM
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Allen, Weaver, Reasoner

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10-20-2010, 09:23 AM
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Clint
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Dvorak. He's effective, a hometown guy, and cheap.

Reasoner. Underrated bottom line presence. Defensive, gritty, good in the faceoff circle.

Allen. Physical defenseman, and stay-at-home types usually get better with age since speed is not generally the primary asset in their game. He finally seems to be injury free.

Weaver. One of the better penalty killers in the league and consistently flies under the radar.

Get rid of everyone else. Stillman is too old to contribute offensively for much longer. McCabe does not put up the numbers he used to to warrant what it will take to re-sign him. Reinprecht is almost worthless and is just taking up a youngster's roster spot at this point. Hordichuk and Clemmensen can be replaced easily. Vokoun should be traded to a contender for assets to facilitate our rebuild.

Bam. Just created $18 million in cap space and didn't lose any vital assets that can't be easily replaced.

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10-20-2010, 09:24 AM
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Well Wideman, Reinprecht, Clemmensen, and Allen are here until next year, so unless they are traded/bought out, they will be part of the team. I have no problem with Tallon moving Reinprecht and Clemmensen. I would also like to see Dvorak and Reasoner re-signed, maybe Weaver too, if he continues to play the way he has.

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10-20-2010, 09:34 AM
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Clint
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
...maybe Weaver too, if he continues to play the way he has.
It's not a coincidence that our penalty kill has been significantly improved since we picked up Reasoner and Weaver.

Edit: http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/201...y-tomas-vokoun

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10-20-2010, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint View Post
Dvorak. He's effective, a hometown guy, and cheap.

Reasoner. Underrated bottom line presence. Defensive, gritty, good in the faceoff circle.

Allen. Physical defenseman, and stay-at-home types usually get better with age since speed is not generally the primary asset in their game. He finally seems to be injury free.

Weaver. One of the better penalty killers in the league and consistently flies under the radar.

Get rid of everyone else. Stillman is too old to contribute offensively for much longer. McCabe does not put up the numbers he used to to warrant what it will take to re-sign him. Reinprecht is almost worthless and is just taking up a youngster's roster spot at this point. Hordichuk and Clemmensen can be replaced easily. Vokoun should be traded to a contender for assets to facilitate our rebuild.

Bam. Just created $18 million in cap space and didn't lose any vital assets that can't be easily replaced.
This.

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Old
10-20-2010, 10:05 AM
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Reasoner, Weaver, Dvorak and McCabe (maybe).

Maybe Vokoun depends what we can get for him at the deadline. Trade him at the deadline or re-sign him. He will sign here, he loves it here.

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10-20-2010, 10:10 AM
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Reasoner
Dvorak
Weaver (2 years left)
Allen (2 years left)

I'd keep

McCabe if he agrees to sign a deal around 2-2.5M$ for 2 years which I doubth

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10-20-2010, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mogo View Post
Reasoner
Dvorak
Weaver (2 years left)
Allen (2 years left)

I'd keep

McCabe if he agrees to sign a deal around 2-2.5M$ for 2 years which I doubth
This is my list as well. I like what I've seen of Reasoner over his career...he's a solid 3rd/4th line center. Dvorak I would like to see retire as a Panther and he still provides a good 3rd/4th line winger and PK specialist. Weaver has shown he's worth every penny of that 2 yr contract and more. Allen also looks like he's back to his top 4 form that he showed prior to the knee injury.

On McCabe, he's what I was referring to in the initial post about something that GR mentioned in a chat. He thinks that the org would like to re-sign McCabe to a deal similar to what you're talking about too. If he doesnt want to take that, he'll be allowed to leave I think. I just dont think he'd be traded if the Panthers are out of it at the trade deadline, especially with his NMC.

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10-20-2010, 10:43 AM
  #10
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Id resign Vokun. He will be very reasoanble in negotiating, and in fact i wish they would talk extension now.
Goalies take time to mature, and Markstrom wont be ready for 3 years, IMHO. Vokun loves it here, wants to be part of the solution (a ratirty here), and can flat out play. He will make a great mentor for Markstrom.
Of course if Vokie asks for bocu bucks, let him go....

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10-20-2010, 10:51 AM
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I think it might be a little early for this thread, but as of now:

Keep Allen and Weaver.
Resign Reasoner and Dvorak.

Resign Vokoun (at a slight discount) if we do not get a good deal at the deadline. I think it is too early to count on Markstrom to replace a top 5 goalie in the NHL. Vokoun should only go if we get a good deal or he won't resign.

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10-20-2010, 11:04 AM
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Ill tell u what if the panthers keep playing the way they are right now and are hanging on to a 7 or 8 spot come deadline its going to be a tough sell trading vokoun, because if u do that youre basically conceding the season. I say if were around a playoff spot during the deadline i think we should roll with vokoun

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10-20-2010, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mogo View Post
Reasoner
Dvorak
Weaver (2 years left)
Allen (2 years left)

I'd keep

McCabe if he agrees to sign a deal around 2-2.5M$ for 2 years which I doubth
I agree

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10-20-2010, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
Id resign Vokun. He will be very reasoanble in negotiating, and in fact i wish they would talk extension now.
Goalies take time to mature, and Markstrom wont be ready for 3 years, IMHO. Vokun loves it here, wants to be part of the solution (a ratirty here), and can flat out play. He will make a great mentor for Markstrom.
Of course if Vokie asks for bocu bucks, let him go....
I think you're still not giving Markstrom much credit to say he wont be ready for 3 yrs. I have a feeling he could follow the Tuuka Rask curve (2 seasons in the AHL and then he's a starter in the NHL). If you're saying he wont be ready in terms of being an elite goalie, then thats a different story. He's almost capable now of being a backup in the NHL...by next season he would be a backup in the NHL. Really just a question of how to develop him properly and also does re-signing Vokoun hurt his development at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by panthersfan751 View Post
I think it might be a little early for this thread, but as of now:

Keep Allen and Weaver.
Resign Reasoner and Dvorak.

Resign Vokoun (at a slight discount) if we do not get a good deal at the deadline. I think it is too early to count on Markstrom to replace a top 5 goalie in the NHL. Vokoun should only go if we get a good deal or he won't resign.
I wanted to create it now as we'll be able to track it over the course of the season. Kinda like where we sit with veterans now, where we sit with those vets at midseason, where are we at the trade deadline and then where are we at the end of the yr. As the yr goes on, everyone may change opinions on certain guys.

My only concern with trying to re-sign Vokoun, even at a discount, is he wants a long term deal like Tim Thomas got. Then you have him and Markstrom both potentially top 10 goalies with not enough icetime to go around and no one having the cap space for trading for Vokoun on a longer deal. I'd be fine with re-signing Vokoun for 1-2 more yrs MAX.
Quote:
Originally Posted by panthersflames1 View Post
Ill tell u what if the panthers keep playing the way they are right now and are hanging on to a 7 or 8 spot come deadline its going to be a tough sell trading vokoun, because if u do that youre basically conceding the season. I say if were around a playoff spot during the deadline i think we should roll with vokoun
Yeah it would be a tough sell but it would also be a tough sell if they miss the playoffs and get nothing for him (or a fraction of what they could've) like they did with Bouwmeester. It's going to be a tough decision regardless but I'd only agree to not trading him if they already had an extension agreed to first.

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10-20-2010, 11:46 AM
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If you consider that Ellerby will make the big club this year... We really don't have space for McCabe. That may sound weird but hey look: Dmitry Kulikov, Mike Weaver, Jason Garrison, Bryan Allen, Dennis Wideman are a good top-5 and are all signed through next year... Add Gudbranson and Ellerby, we are already at 7 !

I don't know but... It doesn't look like McCabe has a spot on this team in the near future... Even if he is our captain, and may be our highest scoring defenseman at the end of the year... Future isn't so bright for Captain Caber !!

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10-20-2010, 11:58 AM
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Dvorak, Reasoner, Weaver, Vokoun.

Vokoun's an elite goaltender, so he's worth every penny, imo.

Dvorak and Reasoner are solid checking line forwards, which shouldn't cost much.

Weaver is solid defensively, and very good on the PK. Because of the lack of offensive upside, it won't take much to bring him back.

I don't care much for Bryan Allen. He's physical, yes, but I'd like to see Gudbranson take his spot in the near future; Guds could easily be better, and much cheaper. If not Guds, I'm sure Ellerby can take the spot.

McCabe is overpaid, and I'd try to replace him with a cheaper vet FA D.

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Old
10-20-2010, 01:02 PM
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adam graves
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
I think you're still not giving Markstrom much credit to say he wont be ready for 3 yrs. I have a feeling he could follow the Tuuka Rask curve (2 seasons in the AHL and then he's a starter in the NHL). If you're saying he wont be ready in terms of being an elite goalie, then thats a different story. He's almost capable now of being a backup in the NHL...by next season he would be a backup in the NHL. Really just a question of how to develop him properly and also does re-signing Vokoun hurt his development at all.
I wanted to create it now as we'll be able to track it over the course of the season. Kinda like where we sit with veterans now, where we sit with those vets at midseason, where are we at the trade deadline and then where are we at the end of the yr. As the yr goes on, everyone may change opinions on certain guys.

My only concern with trying to re-sign Vokoun, even at a discount, is he wants a long term deal like Tim Thomas got. Then you have him and Markstrom both potentially top 10 goalies with not enough icetime to go around and no one having the cap space for trading for Vokoun on a longer deal. I'd be fine with re-signing Vokoun for 1-2 more yrs MAX.
Yeah it would be a tough sell but it would also be a tough sell if they miss the playoffs and get nothing for him (or a fraction of what they could've) like they did with Bouwmeester. It's going to be a tough decision regardless but I'd only agree to not trading him if they already had an extension agreed to first.
What I am saying is i think hes 3 yrs away from being a reliable 50 game starting goalie. So you resign vokie 2-3 yrs; And over the next 3 they ease in and switch roles.
I dont think we disagree by much if at all here.

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10-20-2010, 02:07 PM
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I hope Dvo gets another 2 year deal - the guy just doesn't seem to age or lose a step. He's the ideal 3-4th liner.

I could see Allen and his contract traded, I think Allen is replaceable especially with Ellerby's growth and Guds in the wings at ELC.

I hope Weaver is extended. The guy is worth every penny for his PK. Same for Reasoner on both sides of the ice. 1-2 year deals though - no more ridiculous contracts!

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10-20-2010, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
What I am saying is i think hes 3 yrs away from being a reliable 50 game starting goalie. So you resign vokie 2-3 yrs; And over the next 3 they ease in and switch roles.
I dont think we disagree by much if at all here.
i think vokoun would rather go to a team where he is projected to be number 1 throughout his contract. why would he accept a deal where he know his role will decrease year by year?

to answer the op, id say keep dvorak until we have someone young coming up and able to take his spot (howden).
re-sign reasoner cuz we wont find a better 3rd/4th line center.
allen will have to prove himself this season, but so far he has been good enough. but we still have 78 games to play..
weaver is a no-brainer. he is more valuable to us than garrison.

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10-20-2010, 02:24 PM
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It's too early for this thread, there's no way to tell which way to go until we see how this season progresses. The only FA I would re-sign no matter what is Reasoner.

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10-20-2010, 02:26 PM
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I would like Dvorak at the deadline to Philly.

Do you guys think he will be available?

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10-20-2010, 02:31 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlaPanthers7 View Post
I hope Dvo gets another 2 year deal - the guy just doesn't seem to age or lose a step. He's the ideal 3-4th liner.

I could see Allen and his contract traded, I think Allen is replaceable especially with Ellerby's growth and Guds in the wings at ELC.

I hope Weaver is extended. The guy is worth every penny for his PK. Same for Reasoner on both sides of the ice. 1-2 year deals though - no more ridiculous contracts!
I would give Dvorak a 1-2 year deal, but not more than 2 years. His speed is such an integral part of his game that once he starts slowing down, he will be a much less effective player.

As for Allen, I disagree. I don't think he is replaceable at this time and he has looked good so far. He was a very solid top 4 d-man before the knee injury and if he returns to that form, we need him and the toughness he brings. I'd much rather have a vet like him to make sure the other team stays in line than count on rookies like Ellerby and Gudbranson to do that job. Also, Allen's contract isn't as bad as it's made out to be. He will make 3.1M this year and 3.15M next year, which is certainly a fair price if he keeps up his play.

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10-20-2010, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
It's too early for this thread, there's no way to tell which way to go until we see how this season progresses. The only FA I would re-sign no matter what is Reasoner.
Its never too early as the org is already thinking about re-signing McCabe if it can. Again, I dont think you can just limit it to this season either...but for building a team, identify which veterans would be more valuable to keep than possibly to trade or not re-sign. I think you see a consistent list of 4 players (Reasoner, Dvorak, Weaver, Allen) being the guys to re-sign and/or not trade with a possible 5th in Vokoun. Even if the bottom falls out and the Panthers go into suck mode again, it doesnt hurt to identify a few guys that you want to keep around to help rebuild and lead the young players.

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10-20-2010, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panthersfan751 View Post
Also, Allen's contract isn't as bad as it's made out to be. He will make 3.1M this year and 3.15M next year, which is certainly a fair price if he keeps up his play.
Yes it is; Allen is definitely overpaid.
In the new NHL, a defenseman with limited offensive upside shouldn't be worth that much. Especially considering Allen's role on the team. He's not even on our "shutdown pairing" (Weaver/Garrison) right now.

He's not worth over 3 mill per year.

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10-20-2010, 03:05 PM
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Its never too early as the org is already thinking about re-signing McCabe if it can.
I really hope that that's not the case.
I mean, if it is the case, I hope there's a discount involved.

However, considering his yearly offensive #'s, McCabe might get a similar contract, and that would be horrible. He's being paid like a #1 defenseman, and he's not a #1 defenseman.

I don't understand why they'd be so eager to re-sign McCabe, while Vokoun hasn't even been mentioned as a possibility to play here beyond this year.

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