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Zach Fucale: Why I'm skeptical about him

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07-31-2013, 08:20 PM
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Zach Fucale: Why I'm skeptical about him

First of all, I will admit that I never watched Zach Fucale play, ever! (And please don't come with unoriginal comments such as '/thread')

So I was looking at his juniors stats with Halifax like his save % and GAA and the first thing that crossed my mind was: 'Is this guy really considered as a steal?'

Don't get me wrong, his stats aren't bad at all. I just find them average for a potentially 'best goalie of the draft' or 'future no. 1 goalie in the NHL'. or a franchise goalie like Craig Button said.

Zach Fucale
16 years old: 0.892% - 3.16 - 58gp
17 years old: 0.909% - 2.35 - 55gp

Some good stats when we look at it, but he couldn't do better with a monster team last season???

If we look at other top prospects goalies

Tristan Jarry
16 years old: 0.894% - 2.93 - 14gp
17 years old: 0.936% - 1.61 - 27gp

He was drafted 8 spots after Fucale. He played less games and he had some better stats with a western powerhouse like the Edmonton Oil Kings. Could he be way better than Fucale?

Malcolm Subban
16 years old: 0.900% - 3.16 - 32gp
17 years old: 0.923% - 2.50 - 39gp
18 years old: 0.934% - 2.14 - 46gp (after draft)

Better stats for Subban at 16 and 17 by far, but in a poll on this threadhttp://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1464575, Fucale won by a small margin, even with the stats I showed you.

My hypotheses:

-Maybe Fucale is overated
-Maybe Fucale is better when you watch him live than on paper
-Maybe Fucale is one of the reason why Halifax were great
-Even if Halifax were dominating the CHL, they weren't the best defensive team
-There is a reason why Fucale fell to the 34th spot if he was ranked way higher

I don't know what to think. Somebody told me he looked like a stud goalie when he's in the net, etc. But when I look at other goalies stats drafted in the first 2 rounds last couples of years, most of them are better than Fucale on paper.

So, I just want to know what you guys expect from him, what you say that makes him special, am I right or wrong about something, etc.?

I'm not hating on him. I want him to be good or great for ys, but I find it weird that we passed on guys like Zykov for such a dangerous gamble.
Tell me more about him. I red a lot of things about him but I still can't tell why he's supposed to be a future no. 1.

Thanks for your help.

EDIT: Do you guys expect him to make team Canada junior? (as a starter or backup) and how strong his next season will be with a different Mooseheads team?


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07-31-2013, 08:27 PM
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First of all, I will admit that I never watched Zach Fucale play, ever!
I'll just say that you're doing irreparable damage to your argument when this is the first thing out of your mouth.

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07-31-2013, 08:29 PM
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I would wager that Fucale's poor stats are from his team only giving up prime opportunities.

That's what keeps me hopeful of him.

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07-31-2013, 08:34 PM
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Paging Mooseheads fans...

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07-31-2013, 08:36 PM
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I'm afraid you have fallen into the same trap that most fans do. Stock stats aren't meaningful, especially in the CHL. There are exceptions to every rule but stats, especially for goalies, don't mean squat.

You could have Roy in net and stick the league's worst defense in front of him and I guarantee he will get lit up.

If you want to evaluate a goalie, review the goals he has let in (probably about 200-300 in a given season) and you will get an idea of how many were allowed because of Fucales mistake, situation or a defensive lapse.

EDIT: As a side note, most high octane offenses leave their goalies out to dry multiple times per game.

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07-31-2013, 08:40 PM
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While I believe in Jarry's abilities as a goaltender and he very well might end up the best goalie of the 2013 class, you have to take into consideration that NOT ONLY were the Oil Kings a top team, but as a back-up, Jarry saw MOSTLY the worst teams in the league. Fucale as a 16 year old pretty much (if not did) play the entire schedule of the Mooseheads games once he got into the net and started winning.

When Halifax played Gatineau. They gave up nothing except... breakaways. Fucale didn't face a lot of shots, in most games, but the shots he did face, were almost always quality scoring chances. All you have to do is watch his Memorial Cup games and you will see what Fucale does, come up big in big moments. On his worst night, he'll give you a chance to win and he won't quit. That's a valuable quality.

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07-31-2013, 08:47 PM
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Games Played

Check the difference in games played at the age of 16 and 17. ZF is well ahead of the competition in this regard. Hard to recall 16 and 17 year old goalies in the CHL with such a workload. Patrick Roy, a 3rd round pick, 51st over all, did it as a 17 and 18 year old:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/r/roypa01.html

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07-31-2013, 08:51 PM
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I was looking at his numbers of games played... are there a lot of goaltender prospects that played 147 games with their junior team before even turning 18 years old? That seems impressive to me because Halifax is not a bad team at all.

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07-31-2013, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
While I believe in Jarry's abilities as a goaltender and he very well might end up the best goalie of the 2013 class, you have to take into consideration that NOT ONLY were the Oil Kings a top team, but as a back-up, Jarry saw MOSTLY the worst teams in the league. Fucale as a 16 year old pretty much (if not did) play the entire schedule of the Mooseheads games once he got into the net and started winning.

When Halifax played Gatineau. They gave up nothing except... breakaways. Fucale didn't face a lot of shots, in most games, but the shots he did face, were almost always quality scoring chances. All you have to do is watch his Memorial Cup games and you will see what Fucale does, come up big in big moments. On his worst night, he'll give you a chance to win and he won't quit. That's a valuable quality.
This. That's what I like most about Fucale, he never quits. Even if he lets in five goals, he'll fight to save the sixth goal as if its the first. The kid doesn't get phased, he's a battler and this is pretty much the biggest difference IMO between him and Price. On any given game, price can play lights out but as soon as he lets in the first goal, the other goals go in a lot easier.

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07-31-2013, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by HABS2DCUP View Post
This. That's what I like most about Fucale, he never quits. Even if he lets in five goals, he'll fight to save the sixth goal as if its the first. The kid doesn't get phased, he's a battler and this is pretty much the biggest difference IMO between him and Price. On any given game, price can play lights out but as soon as he lets in the first goal, the other goals go in a lot easier.
That couldn't be further then the truth. Price is one of the most mentally strong goalies in the league.

His "cold streak" came at the same time that our defense was in shambles and our offense couldn't score a goal worth their lives. Sure he let in the odd weak goal but I was shocked at how many chances other teams were getting, like quality chances.

All that said this is the Fucale thread, don't bring a player you hate in on it for no good reason.

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07-31-2013, 09:16 PM
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On his worst night, he'll give you a chance to win and he won't quit. That's a valuable quality.
Exactly what Timmins said
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6bv3NEti_A#t=4m8s

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07-31-2013, 09:20 PM
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Junior stats for goaltenders are probably the most meaningless thing you could base an argument on.

It's all about dedication, technique, coachability and natural talent. There are far too many variables for a goaltender, especially when you're 16-17, not fully developed and moving away from home for the first time.

From everything I've seen in his game he has loads of natural ability, flexibility, concentration and reads the plays very well. There is not a goaltender in the world who makes it to professional that cannot be taught technique.

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07-31-2013, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
I'll just say that you're doing irreparable damage to your argument when this is the first thing out of your mouth.
It's not an argument, I just want some answers.

Thx for your help

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07-31-2013, 09:26 PM
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What's with all the Habs prospect hating so far?

So far McCarron is going to bust, Leblanc already busted, DLR is a terrible project and now Fucale is over rated.

What gives? I'm not saying to blindly over rate our prospects but come on, how about watching them play and develop a bit before giving up on them.

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07-31-2013, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
Junior stats for goaltenders are probably the most meaningless thing you could base an argument on.

It's all about dedication, technique, coachability and natural talent. There are far too many variables for a goaltender, especially when you're 16-17, not fully developed and moving away from home for the first time.

From everything I've seen in his game he has loads of natural ability, flexibility, concentration and reads the plays very well. There is not a goaltender in the world who makes it to professional that cannot be taught technique.
Wow, thank you for this comment!

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07-31-2013, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
What's with all the Habs prospect hating so far?

So far McCarron is going to bust, Leblanc already busted, DLR is a terrible project and now Fucale is over rated.

What gives? I'm not saying to blindly over rate our prospects but come on, how about watching them play and develop a bit before giving up on them.
Not hating at all, just want to know him more.

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07-31-2013, 09:30 PM
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Saw him play live in Drummondville and I really didnt notice anything bad about him. He was really sound in his net and reallyyy looked composed and poised. The real test will be this year when the Moosehead have Mac and most likely Drouin gone.

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07-31-2013, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
What's with all the Habs prospect hating so far?

So far McCarron is going to bust, Leblanc already busted, DLR is a terrible project and now Fucale is over rated.

What gives? I'm not saying to blindly over rate our prospects but come on, how about watching them play and develop a bit before giving up on them.
Fucale can definetely be a #1 goalie given his potential, McCarron is imho a 50/50 wager and if he gets to play in the NHL he is vastly more expected to be playing on a bottom 6 role ( could be regarded by some as bust ). Leblanc is indeed pretty much busted and maybe just maybe can he hope to get a 2-way contract like Palushaj just got.

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07-31-2013, 09:39 PM
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I was looking at his numbers of games played... are there a lot of goaltender prospects that played 147 games with their junior team before even turning 18 years old? That seems impressive to me because Halifax is not a bad team at all.
That's what I'm mostly impressed with him. He almost played 150 CHL games with still 2 seasons left. That's great for his developpement.

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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
While I believe in Jarry's abilities as a goaltender and he very well might end up the best goalie of the 2013 class, you have to take into consideration that NOT ONLY were the Oil Kings a top team, but as a back-up, Jarry saw MOSTLY the worst teams in the league. Fucale as a 16 year old pretty much (if not did) play the entire schedule of the Mooseheads games once he got into the net and started winning.

When Halifax played Gatineau. They gave up nothing except... breakaways. Fucale didn't face a lot of shots, in most games, but the shots he did face, were almost always quality scoring chances. All you have to do is watch his Memorial Cup games and you will see what Fucale does, come up big in big moments. On his worst night, he'll give you a chance to win and he won't quit. That's a valuable quality.
So you're telling me he faces a lot of scoring chances. I didn't know this either because I thought Halifax was just too good of a team :p Good to know

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Originally Posted by Richiebottles View Post
Saw him play live in Drummondville and I really didnt notice anything bad about him. He was really sound in his net and reallyyy looked composed and poised. The real test will be this year when the Moosehead have Mac and most likely Drouin gone.
Yep, but maybe the team will be most defensively minded, which could be great for his stats (even if stats doesn't really matters).

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07-31-2013, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by MaxHabs24 View Post
First of all, I will admit that I never watched Zach Fucale play, ever!
That's okay, actually. Anyone from out here knows just how far "off the radar" these parts are for, well, anyone outside of here, lol. How many people have actually seen Fucale/Drouin/MacKinnon Mooseheads games outside of the nationally televised Mem. Cup?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxHabs24 View Post
-Maybe Fucale is overated
-Maybe Fucale is better when you watch him live than on paper
-Maybe Fucale is one of the reason why Halifax were great
-Even if Halifax were dominating the CHL, they weren't the best defensive team
-There is a reason why Fucale fell to the 34th spot if he was ranked way higher
All could be defended, actually. He's overrated if he's already pegged as a possible perennial Vezina candidate.

He really is much, much better to watch than to follow on paper; unless you pay attention to what kind of goals get scored against him, and when they happen in games (1st vs 2nd vs 3rd period, just for one example), perhaps.

He definitely was part of what made the Moose great. Resurgent confidence on this team really stemmed from his approach to the game and his performances going back before most had even heard of Jonathan Drouin.

The had great composition on defense, but they weren't the best at preventing scoring opportunities - many skilled teams in the Q were able to turn alarming numbers of odd-man rushes in transition. Great amount of character, toughness, and accountability, though, and that more than made up for any of the conspicuous weaknesses.

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Originally Posted by MaxHabs24 View Post
I don't know what to think. Somebody told me he looked like a stud goalie when he's in the net, etc. But when I look at other goalies stats drafted in the first 2 rounds last couples of years, most of them are better than Fucale on paper.
Meh, it's tough enough to separate goalie contribution from star support cast contribution at the Q level, let alone compare it consistently across different teams - and teams across different and separate leagues, ultimately, on top of that. "On paper" is more about trends and "true" comparables; not a particular set of specific "metrics".

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxHabs24 View Post
So, I just want to know what you guys expect from him, what you say that makes him special, am I right or wrong about something, etc.?
He's a professional through and through right now. Has minor flaws, but isn't what I would call "raw" at all. He has shouldered serious workload, has been in just about every pressure situation anyone in his peer group could claim, and would be recognized by anyone in that dressing room this year as one of their biggest MVPs over the entire time frame of the MacKinnon/Drouin saga.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HABS2DCUP View Post
This. That's what I like most about Fucale, he never quits. Even if he lets in five goals, he'll fight to save the sixth goal as if its the first. The kid doesn't get phased, he's a battler and this is pretty much the biggest difference IMO between him and just about anyone in his peer group.
"Fixed" to reflect more or less my opinion on this one. Hard worker, and fast/eager learner, but that bold part is definitely his "calling card". Having seen almost every home game over the past couple of years, the word "clutch" certainly comes to mind, too. Save after save after save when they really needed it. In the way that those rare forwards are able to heavily affect the speed of the play, he's a goalie that's able to heavily affect the momentum of a game.

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07-31-2013, 09:53 PM
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This. That's what I like most about Fucale, he never quits. Even if he lets in five goals, he'll fight to save the sixth goal as if its the first. The kid doesn't get phased, he's a battler and this is pretty much the biggest difference IMO between him and Price. On any given game, price can play lights out but as soon as he lets in the first goal, the other goals go in a lot easier.
Until the end of this season and the playoffs, Price was considered one of the most mentally tough goalies in the league. That remains so. He did not have the greatest season, so be it. People are making Price out to seem like such an unstable goalie, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

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07-31-2013, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
That's okay, actually. Anyone from out here knows just how far "off the radar" these parts are for, well, anyone outside of here, lol. How many people have actually seen Fucale/Drouin/MacKinnon Mooseheads games outside of the nationally televised Mem. Cup?



All could be defended, actually. He's overrated if he's already pegged as a possible perennial Vezina candidate.

He really is much, much better to watch than to follow on paper; unless you pay attention to what kind of goals get scored against him, and when they happen in games (1st vs 2nd vs 3rd period, just for one example), perhaps.

He definitely was part of what made the Moose great. Resurgent confidence on this team really stemmed from his approach to the game and his performances going back before most had even heard of Jonathan Drouin.

The had great composition on defense, but they weren't the best at preventing scoring opportunities - many skilled teams in the Q were able to turn alarming numbers of odd-man rushes in transition. Great amount of character, toughness, and accountability, though, and that more than made up for any of the conspicuous weaknesses.



Meh, it's tough enough to separate goalie contribution from star support cast contribution at the Q level, let alone compare it consistently across different teams - and teams across different and separate leagues, ultimately, on top of that. "On paper" is more about trends and "true" comparables; not a particular set of specific "metrics".



He's a professional through and through right now. Has minor flaws, but isn't what I would call "raw" at all. He has shouldered serious workload, has been in just about every pressure situation anyone in his peer group could claim, and would be recognized by anyone in that dressing room this year as one of their biggest MVPs over the entire time frame of the MacKinnon/Drouin saga.



"Fixed" to reflect more or less my opinion on this one. Hard worker, and fast/eager learner, but that bold part is definitely his "calling card". Having seen almost every home game over the past couple of years, the word "clutch" certainly comes to mind, too. Save after save after save when they really needed it. In the way that those rare forwards are able to heavily affect the speed of the play, he's a goalie that's able to heavily affect the momentum of a game.
Thanks for your great comment. I'll trust you since you had the chance to watch every home game in Halifax... very luck you

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08-01-2013, 12:19 AM
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Zach's GAA this year may not look good from an NHL perspective, but it's the best single-season GAA in Mooseheads history. It's important to keep CHL stats in a CHL context.

CHL games can often have, well, rather bizarre outcomes and stats need to be looked at from that perspective, especially in a high-scoring league like the Q. For example: Game 4 of the Q semi-finals vs. Rouyn-Noranda.

Zach gave up six goals but was the game's second star. Anyone who just looks at the stat sheet would be convinced he was awful, but anyone who actually watched would know he played absolutely incredibly that night, was the main reason Halifax won, and was completely deserving of his star. I kind of feel like that Game 4 is the perfect metaphor for the Fucale boosters/skeptics argument in some ways. Some people won't be able to look past his giving up six goals in a playoff game, others will see a bigger picture.

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08-01-2013, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by MaxHabs24 View Post
First of all, I will admit that I never watched Zach Fucale play, ever!

So I was looking at his juniors stats with Halifax like his save % and GAA and the first thing that crossed my mind was: 'Is this guy really considered as a steal?'

Don't get me wrong, his stats aren't bad at all. I just find them average for a potentially 'best goalie of the draft' or 'future no. 1 goalie in the NHL'. or a franchise goalie like Craig Button said.

Zach Fucale
16 years old: 0.892% - 3.16 - 58gp
17 years old: 0.909% - 2.35 - 55gp

Some good stats when we look at it, but he couldn't do better with a monster team last season???

If we look at other top prospects goalies

Tristan Jarry
16 years old: 0.894% - 2.93 - 14gp
17 years old: 0.936% - 1.61 - 27gp

He was drafted 8 spots after Fucale. He played less games and he had some better stats with a western powerhouse like the Edmonton Oil Kings. Could he be way better than Fucale?

Malcolm Subban
16 years old: 0.900% - 3.16 - 32gp
17 years old: 0.923% - 2.50 - 39gp
18 years old: 0.934% - 2.14 - 46gp (after draft)

Better stats for Subban at 16 and 17 by far, but in a poll on this threadhttp://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1464575, Fucale won by a small margin, even with the stats I showed you.

My hypotheses:

-Maybe Fucale is overated
-Maybe Fucale is better when you watch him live than on paper
-Maybe Fucale is one of the reason why Halifax were great
-Even if Halifax were dominating the CHL, they weren't the best defensive team
-There is a reason why Fucale fell to the 34th spot if he was ranked way higher

I don't know what to think. Somebody told me he looked like a stud goalie when he's in the net, etc. But when I look at other goalies stats drafted in the first 2 rounds last couples of years, most of them are better than Fucale on paper.

So, I just want to know what you guys expect from him, what you say that makes him special, am I right or wrong about something, etc.?

I'm not hating on him. I want him to be good or great for ys, but I find it weird that we passed on guys like Zykov for such a dangerous gamble.
Tell me more about him. I red a lot of things about him but I still can't tell why he's supposed to be a future no. 1.

Thanks for your help.

EDIT: Do you guys expect him to make team Canada junior? (as a starter or backup) and how strong his next season will be with a different Mooseheads team?
You can't compare stats like that, across different leagues to boot! Did you know Patrick Roy allowed over 5 goals a game in the Q while during the same period Allan Bester's GAA was 3.56. I just dont understand why Bester is not a hall of famer

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08-01-2013, 12:43 AM
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But can he fight?

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